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Ladder ORAS 1v1 [3v3 Team Preview]

Mulan15262 said:
From what I've seen, people won't expect it to be a metal burst aggron, at least not until you beat them with it a few times. Also, with Sableye, you can just pound it with a hard enough move and OHKO it, while you need Mold Breaker or Teravolt with a good enough move to OHKO Aggron, a feat that is very rare even for Aggron that have minimized defenses.
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This might just be me, but I go for Will-o-Wisp or a similar move any time I see anything Sturdy, since Metal Burst, Counter, and Mirror Coat are extremely predictable. Mega Sableye's Magic Bounce makes this impossible.

Also, you overestimated the importance of being able to OHKO Mega Aggron. Its HP is low enough that a 2HKO (e.g. an Earth Power from the incredibly common Kyu-B) will not do enough that the attacker is killed by Metal Burst. Sableye also has low HP, so this is more of an issue with Metal Burst as a move than anything else.

One more thing: you can't just hit Mega Sableye with a strong enough move to OHKO. It lives so many attacks and has only one weakness, and the EVs raimon is using allow it to live the most common attack of that type (Mega Diancie's Moonblast).
 
Actually if you see an aggron in the ladder it's pretty much guaranteed to be sturdy metal burst, so anyone who has played 1v1 for a while will either status/taunt it and start setting up to get the ohko.

edit- rekt by uc
 
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imas234 said:
Actually if you see an aggron in the ladder it's pretty much guaranteed to be sturdy metal burst, so anyone who has played 1v1 for a while will either status/taunt it and start setting up to get the ohko.

edit- rekt by uc
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yeah i agree with you, 95 percent of the time aggron will be metal burst and the other 5 percent are meh, although I did use a banded aggron to some success on ladder.
 
Back when I used Aggron as metal burst, people normally didn't see it coming, and Aggron hits hard enough that sometimes people still lose when they do see it coming. Pokemon with choice items also lose (except Trick sets, and those it can sometimes beat them if you see it coming, which is easy to do).
 
Aggron-Mega is predictable and most teams carry a counter to it, specially Kyurem-Black. On the other hand Mega Sableye due to it's bulk and Magic Bounce ability is less counter-able than Aggron but still can be dealt with mainly with fire types like Mega Charizard X.
 
Dream Eater Gengar said:
Aggron-Mega is predictable and most teams carry a counter to it, specially Kyurem-Black. On the other hand Mega Sableye due to it's bulk and Magic Bounce ability is less counter-able than Aggron but still can be dealt with mainly with fire types like Mega Charizard X.
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Deg that's why u can run taunt, and max defense So u can live an outrage/flare blitz at +1, but it's shaky as it loses some of its unpredictability as moonblast from diancie will kill it then. Also so will a hydro cannon from specs ninja, if u get rid of spD investment
 
About the diancie vs sableye matchup... What if the diancie uses diamond storm and THEN moonblast? It seems like the odds are not in sableye's favour in that case.
 
Gradient Facade said:
About the diancie vs sableye matchup... What if the diancie uses diamond storm and THEN moonblast? It seems like the odds are not in sableye's favour in that case.
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I know no one who ever has, because they don't expect metal burst Sableye ,but it's possible.
 
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Unfortunately, the set is far from guaranteed to work once it is known that metal burst shenanigans are going on. At that point, it becomes a game of 50/50s sadly.
 
After facing it, I can safely say that there is a more cancerous 1v1 set out there then whimsicott, and it belongs to it's pre-evolution cottonee.

Cottonee
Ability: Prankster
Level: 5
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Grass Whistle
- Endeavor

This set takes the level of annoyance that whimsicott strives for and adds a reliance on luck that is so ludicrously large that it is unbelievable. Unlike whimsicott where it can be taken out simply with the proper move to OHKO it, cottonee manages to cheat the system by either substituting until you miss, or using prankster grass whistle for a 50/50 chance of winning the matchup and then using leech seed and endeavor to end you.

I am well aware that some whimsicotts already run grass whistle in order to gain a lucky win over traditional counters, but the fact that cottonee's play style is completely based around this 50/50 roll make it a set that is not only incredibly unreliable, but incredibly uncompetitive as well. In my opinion, this set has to go...
 
Gradient Facade said:
After facing it, I can safely say that there is a more cancerous 1v1 set out there then whimsicott, and it belongs to it's pre-evolution cottonee.
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Why no item for this set? You could even go with something stupid like BrightPowder or Quick Claw to increase opponent's rage.
 
Illusio said:
Why Quick Claw? It already gets priority on all of its moves.
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Simple, to destroy other priority that otherwise destroys it. To make Endeavor pseudo-priority.

Although, now that I think about it, the only real priority is Dragonite's Extreme Speed, and that one is +2. Yeah, just use BrightPowder or Focus Band (probably BrightPowder is better).
 
In terms of items for the set, mental herb is probably one of the better options. That said, it's not exactly a great set, TBH you probably don't want to run it if you're hoping to get high on the ladder.
 
Articuno I said:
In terms of items for the set, mental herb is probably one of the better options. That said, it's not exactly a great set, TBH you probably don't want to run it if you're hoping to get high on the ladder.
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That's exactly the point. It's not a reliable set at all, but does that not make it exactly the same in concept as swagger? Both are 50/50 rolls that are not in favour of either opponent. This is why I posted about it in the first place because how similar it really is to prankster swagplay BS.
 
Gradient Facade said:
That's exactly the point. It's not a reliable set at all, but does that not make it exactly the same in concept as swagger? Both are 50/50 rolls that are not in favour of either opponent. This is why I posted about it in the first place because how similar it really is to prankster swagplay BS.
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I remember going on the ladder with swagplay klefki (albeit back before the 3v3 preview IIRC). It was haxxy, that's true, but I still won over 50% of games, though I still won more games when using an actual mon such as Chansey. I honestly can't see this set doing anywhere near as well: From what I can see, you need to predict your opponent to use a mon you can beat and then get >50% luck, meaning that it's just a silly mon to use. It's more like confuse ray than swagger: While both are just as luck-based, confuse ray doesn't result in you probably winning so doesn't need a ban.
 
Here's a fun set.

304.png

Aron @ Shell Bell
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 1
EVs: 252 Atk
Brave Nature
- Endeavor
- Sandstorm
- ???
- ???

First of all, you get hit. Sturdy prevents Aron from fainting. Use endeavor to knock your opponent down to 1hp, and gain your health back using the shell bell. I personalty then like to end it with a sandstorm, but you can use whatever move you want. I don't recommend sending this Pokemon out if there is a ghost type on your opponent's side, as they can stop it. This pokemon can be stopped by rough-skin or rocky helmet as well.
 
Distant Shadow said:
Here's a fun set.

304.png

Aron @ Shell Bell
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 1
EVs: 252 Atk
Brave Nature
- Endeavor
- Sandstorm
- ???
- ???

First of all, you get hit. Sturdy prevents Aron from fainting. Use endeavor to knock your opponent down to 1hp, and gain your health back using the shell bell. I personalty then like to end it with a sandstorm, but you can use whatever move you want. I don't recommend sending this Pokemon out if there is a ghost type on your opponent's side, as they can stop it. This pokemon can be stopped by rough-skin or rocky helmet as well.
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FEAR Aron is OK, but only low ladder, really. So much stuff beats it, and most good teams have an answer for it. Status (such as WoW from Zard), multi-hit moves (like Rock Blast from Rhyperior), Ghost types, Rough Skin (only really Chomp tbh), Mold Breaker or equivalent (from the omnipresent Kyu-B), Trick (once it is locked in to Endeavour it can't do anything, so you just kill it), etc. It is a fun gimmick, but overall not very good in 1v1 :L
 
I was literally just thinking about a way to use Leech Seed to abuse Sturdy, but no grass types get sturdy. Then I see that Cottonee set, spot on. Mental Herb helps for 1 turn, but that set really takes out a lot of threats.
 
An effort to revive this thread, with permission from Eevee and TI!

adapted from firehusky
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The Next Best Thing: 1v1
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​
What is this?
Because 1v1 is so different from standard 6v6 metagames, a lot of work goes into scouring various Pokemon's Pokedex entries for moves and sometimes abilities that they rarely, if ever, run in singles, but can make them incredibly useful in a 1v1 matchup. In this thread, we can focus on this part of the teambuilding process. Together, we can foster some creativity by systematically examining some of 1v1's most used Pokemon and coming up with unusual, useful "hidden gem" sets for them.

The Process:
Each week, I will choose a different usable Pokemon for which participants will try to personally create a new, non-standard set. The best sets will be archived in the second post and the process will start all over again for the next chosen Pokemon.

What are we looking for?
Specifically, I want to stress the importance of finding a balance between creativity and viability when picking a set to post for the Pokemon in question. There's a very fine line between a "creative" set and a "gimmick," and this project is not meant to produce gimmicks, rather to emphasize the ability to think outside the box when using a specific Pokemon in order to maximize its potential.

Having said that, I would also like to deviate from simple one move / item changes. For example, using Iron Head over Fusion Bolt on a Scarf Kyurem-Black does nothing to show any untapped potential Kyurem-Black has because we already have a basic understanding of what it is and does, it's just now better at dealing with fairies and has more trouble with Mega Gyarados and the like.

It doesn't yield productive discussion or results for the project. I am looking for sets that test what we think we know about checks or counters, so-called standards, and what it means to be viable. Maybe a particular option for a Pokemon looks inferior at first glance for that particular Pokemon, but consider the different threats it causes it to win and lose against.

Current subject: Mew
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Frog (Greninja) @ Life Orb / Choice Specs
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Rock Slide
- Hydro Cannon
- Ice Beam
- Hyper Beam

Yeah this is a pretty great Greninja set that I've been running for awhile, basically gives you a 90% chance of winning vs nearly every zard-y. It is that simple, Zard-y is a major pain in the ass to counter so I just put Rock Slide in the filler slot, not like the other moves are too important anyways.
 
Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Water Shuriken
- Hydro Cannon
- Taunt / other
- Extrasensory / Gunk Shot / other

This may look a weird set, but it does well against a number of pokemon that would normally beat it.
Firstly, water shuriken is a useful move against a number of pokemon. FEAR straight-up dies to it when otherwise it would probably win. things like Mega Aggron also lose to it, with water shuriken breaking sturdy and the multi-hit nature of the move meaning that metal burst does very little in return. Using this to knock it into hydro cannon range then KOing works well against a mon that otherwise counters. The priority and sub-breaking abilities also make it nice vs. encore/disable mega alakazam which can be a nuisance for greninja sets as well.

Hydro Cannon hits hard, which is something Greninja really needs when it's relying on a mere 103 base SpA. Hydro Pump is usable but in many cases far worse. For example, Greninja has no chance against Mega Mawile when using Hydro Pump, whereas with Hydro Cannon it has a chance to KO: 252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 285-335 (93.7 - 110.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
It's also worth noting that water shuriken can be used to outplay sucker punch and bring it into OHKO range even on a min roll with two hits, though sucker punch barely 2HKOs in any case.

The last two moves should be considered together, as neither on its own does particularly much alone. Taunt is useful in shutting down otherwise annoying pokemon such as whimsicott (which often goes for sub first and can wait for a gunk shot miss). It also stops things like Mega Venusaur from going for sleep powder, allowing extrasensory to give greninja a chance at beating it. Gunk Shot alongside taunt allows Greninja to beat things like Perish Song Azumarill whereas with only gunk shot, greninja has to rely on a roll and two hits and azu not getting a triple protect, which adds up to a far-from-perfect success chance.
Both extrasensory and gunk shot allow greninja to beat zard y if predicted correctly, as the change of type stops solarbeam from KOing and the damage from these moves followed by hydro cannon will KO. Be warned however that fire blast will OHKO after the type change, though it won't beforehand so if Fire Blast is predicted then Greninja should use water shuriken first, which gives a favourable roll to KO even with just two hits.
Other options for the last move include Dark Pulse, which alongside taunt allows greninja to beat most Deoxys-D; Ice Beam, which allows Greninja to beat Dragonite, Rock Slide which gives an easier win against Mega Charizard Y, and even things like Hidden Power Fire to beat ferrothorn or scizor if they become problems for the team. Low Kick alongside maximum attack investment can do nice work against Chansey alongside taunt, as well. Increasing HP investment to let it live 3 seismic tosses after LO recoil.

The set's main niche isn't in beating a lot of things, but rather beating opposing pokemon that would normally expect to win in this matchup. On a crowded ladder or in a tournament where you don't often play the same people multiple times this is useful, as an opponent expecting an simple win can be outpredicted with ease. The set is also very useful in covering up weaknesses that your other pokemon leave: It's easy to stick two very powerful pokemon on a team, but this often leaves the problem of three or four pokemon you're weak to that are difficult to beat all in one pokemon. Being able to take care of Rhyperior, Aggron, perish song Azumarill and FEAR all in one set is very useful at times, even if not particularly powerful on its own.
 
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