ORAS UU Viability Ranking Thread M2

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I do agree with most of the changes, with the exception being Heracross drop.

Heracross still can find his way beating common checks likes Florges, Fatmence or even Gligar (although Gligar doesnt want to switch in a Knock Off) by using the Orb SD set (best set imo). CC/Knock Off/Facade/SD beat any of those checks, while still beating anything that others Heracross beat.

SD on mence switch
+1 252 Atk Guts Heracross Facade (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Salamence: 277-326 (70.4 - 82.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Guts Heracross Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 228-269 (63.3 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 72-85 (21.5 - 25.4%) and then
252 Atk Guts Heracross Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gligar: 155-183 (46.4 - 54.7%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO

Besides that, and looking at Salamence drop with Feraligatr rising to S Rank, it's about time we rise Mega Pidgeot to S Rank too. If Mega Aerodactyl is there because he is a great asset for any offensive team, Mega Pidgeot deserves the same for being the best asset for a balance team. UU doesn't have a reliable switch in for M-Pidgeot, besides idk Empoleon, Mega Ampharos or Blissey. Other common walls like SpDef Florges can be beaten by Work Up sets, and even if u don't want to run Work Up, you can simply U-turn out for something else. Hurricane spam really hurts, and the 30% confusion hax can be annoying for pokemons like Mega Aero, that otherwise would not have a problem beating Mega Burd. Simply put it's a strong pokemon that you need to be careful while teambuilding - if you do not think specifically about it, you might get swept rly easy.
 
aim is there anything we are supposed to be discussing for this new slate.

Now for a new nomination
latest

Yanmega B+->A-
I'm surprised this hasn't moved up already.
In a meta infested with some bugs already (Beedrill and Heracross) Yanmega is a great fit among them due to a great special attacking potential. Base 95 speed might seem a little slow, but it can compliment it with speed boost, meaning that after a single turn, it can have 433 speed, after two, it has 578 with a neutral nature. 116 Special attack means it can hit extremey hard with moves like STAB Bug buzz (which can go through substitutes) and Air slash. It might be weak to stealth rock, but it can heal it up, and hit most setters at the same time with Giga Drain, which also allows it to be a great check to 2/3 S-Rank mons. If you go with the other option, ancient-power, you are able to hit aero, pidge, sally, and crobat on the switch, turning these checks into mons that are at rather low HP. Specs Tinted lens hits non-resists Extremely hard, punching holes into many unprepared teams. It also gets U-Turn to help build momentum.
Wall of calcs
Speed boost set: Offensive
252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Ancient Power vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Mega Aerodactyl: 182-216 (58.5 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Ancient Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pidgeot: 208-247 (67.7 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pidgeot: 196-231 (63.8 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Ancient Power vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Salamence: 234-276 (70.6 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Ancient Power vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Crobat: 208-247 (55.7 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Air Slash vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Crobat: 196-231 (52.5 - 61.9%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 192-229 (47.5 - 56.6%) -- 33.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Giga Drain vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 252-299 (77.5 - 92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Ancient Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 221-260 (59.5 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Specs Tinted Lens:
252 SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Aerodactyl: 258-304 (82.9 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Air Slash vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Crobat: 204-241 (54.6 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Salamence: 272-322 (82.1 - 97.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 258-304 (69.5 - 81.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Edit; Fixed stuff
 
SD orb doesn't beat fatmence because fatmence should always creep adamant hera and run a flying move- honestly its main appeal to me is that it's literally the only thing to deal with every hera set out there, not fearing anything from band or orb or scarf.

That said I do disagree with its drop as it still has such an impact on building any fat team and every set is still a huge threat, and its good typing and decent enough bulk means it still gets opportunities to hurt HO. I don't think anything in the meta has really changed for it to justify a drop and it wasn't initially overhyped like mence was.

also wondering where that blissey to b is at...
 
-Tynamo- said:
aim is there anything we are supposed to be discussing for this new slate.

Now for a new nomination
latest

Yanmega B+->A-
I'm surprised this hasn't moved up already.
In a meta infested with some bugs already (Beedrill and Heracross) Yanmega is a great fit among them due to a great special attacking potential. Base 95 speed might seem a little slow, but it can compliment it with speed boost, meaning that after a single turn, it can have 433 speed, after two, it has 578 with a neutral nature. 116 Special attack means it can hit extremey hard with moves like STAB Bug buzz (which can go through substitutes) and Air slash. It might be weak to stealth rock, but it can heal it up, and hit most setters at the same time with Giga Drain, which also allows it to be a great check to 2/3 S-Rank mons. If you go with the other option, ancient-power, you are able to hit aero, pidge, sally, and crobat on the switch, turning these checks into mons that are at rather low HP. Specs Tinted lens hits non-resists Extremely hard, punching holes into many unprepared teams. It also gets U-Turn to help build momentum.
Wall of calcs
Speed boost set: Offensive
252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Ancient Power vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Mega Aerodactyl: 182-216 (58.5 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Ancient Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pidgeot: 208-247 (67.7 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pidgeot: 196-231 (63.8 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Ancient Power vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Salamence: 234-276 (70.6 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Ancient Power vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Crobat: 208-247 (55.7 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Air Slash vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Crobat: 196-231 (52.5 - 61.9%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 192-229 (47.5 - 56.6%) -- 33.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Giga Drain vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 252-299 (77.5 - 92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Ancient Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 221-260 (59.5 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Specs Tinted Lens:
252 SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Aerodactyl: 258-304 (82.9 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Air Slash vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Crobat: 204-241 (54.6 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Salamence: 272-322 (82.1 - 97.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 258-304 (69.5 - 81.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Edit; Fixed stuff
Click to expand...
as someone who used yanmega on almost every team in xy, i hate to say it but its just not as viable as it used to be. Mainly for the leaving of celebi, who was one of the favorite suicune answers and on most teams, giving yan an opportunity to get up some boosts. yes yan is strong but i find its not strong enough in most cases, not to mention it has very little hope of beat ing aero unless you run shit ancient power coverage (i dont know why you decided to include that in calcs, yes it hits aero but to do barely over half to a just a single mon in the meta is dumb) overall i think yan should stay b+. rip god bug :[
 
Pidgeot A+ to S

Alright so im finally going to state my opinion on this monster in uu as I feel like it becomes more of a threat everyday. I understand the whole idea behind pidgeot not being S rank before was that aerodactyl was the most common mon in the tier and all you needed to do was toss one on your team and your pidgeot issue was solved. One, its not like aerodactyl is as much of a safe switch in as people may think as hurricane is doing a solid 35% with that confusion chance and yes, you can roost that off but that causes some momentum loss which is never a good thing to lose. Also its not like pidgeot cant be supported either. God forbid aero is here so pidgeot isnt S rank, well forretress is the most common mon in UU not aero and suicune is 3rd and 6th in both of underused's main usage threads. Im not saying forretress has the same low risk high reward factor as aero does, but stats are stats and if forretress and suicune are some off UU's most common mons as well then why is Aero S rank and pidgeot isn't, and those two mons work a whole hell of a lot better as a check to aero then aero does to pidgeot. I know this is a very controversial point and I honestly hate saying it, but I've witnessed time after time pidgeot haxing through its checks. Throughout the ladder and tour battles I've seen would be checks like florges, ampharos, even empoleon go down to it. Not to mention if ampharos is not rest talk It can only check pidgeot twice thoughout a battle as hurricane + u turn does close to 40% to amph. The work up refresh variant can do good work against stall and even work up variants without refresh can really dent balance cores making it a great mon for offensive builds as it does a fantastic job at softening up opposing teams. I also don't see pidgeot "taking up a mega slot" as It arguably has one of the best low risk high reward factors of any of the megas in the tier.

I was set on pidgeot being A+ at first as well, but I honestly think it deserves it especially some of the things I've seen it do as of late.

Edit: suicune is 5th and 9th in the usage threads. read the suspect thread by accident. Doesn't take away from anything though.
 
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I feel as if this has been brought up in the past, but let's bring it up regardless. Galvantula from B- to C. As an offensive electric type, heliolisk is simply the better choice with all the bulky waters running around with as good, if not better, coverage than Galv. That means Galv is only really viable for the sticky web set. Simply put, I don't find sticky web all that useful. Defoggers and spinners are on a ton of teams in UU, and Galv can be outsped and taunted by leads like azelf, who then sets up rocks and explodes in your face. not only this, but shuckle can usually be counted to set up sticky web, if you choose to use the move, and stealth rock, whilst also being able to take a hit or two along the way (granted, it's both set up bait and taunt bait). Overall, I feel as if galv's niche isn't exactly useful to begin with. And even considering the niche it holds, it's still arguably outclassed
 
The irony of the above post is real.

Mandibuzz deserves a preliminary ranking of at least B+, it's the new defensive Defog king, and it gets Whirlwind and Foul Play, so Gligar is almost completely superfluous now. Mamoswine is A or A+ (with some obvious room for him in S), Ice/Ground STAB is a world of hurt we haven't seen in UU so far.
 
Lord of Bays said:
The irony of the above post is real.

Mandibuzz deserves a preliminary ranking of at least B+, it's the new defensive Defog king, and it gets Whirlwind and Foul Play, so Gligar is almost completely superfluous now. Mamoswine is A or A+ (with some obvious room for him in S), Ice/Ground STAB is a world of hurt we haven't seen in UU so far.
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mamoswine literally has like 3 checks as well as having an offensive check for mence and birds and general i think A+ is a good place for mamo.
 
I don't think Gligar is superfluous at all. Being neutral to Rock is huge for a Defogger in comparison to being weak to it, and actually resisting Fighting are pretty large niches that Gligar has over Mandibuzz. The fact that Mandibuzz is 2HKOed after rocks by most of the offensive Fighting types in the tier such as Mineshao and Heracross is hugely disappointing when you consider its a Flying type, which usually make the best answers to Fighting types in this tier due to Fairies having p. poor physical bulk and Psychic types getting bopped by Knock Off or Heracross. That means you still have to run another rocks weak mon to actually check these fighting types which is pretty damn annoying. Agree with the prelim ranking of B+ but definitely think Gligar has retained it's niche.

252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Gligar: 86-101 (25.8 - 30.3%) -- 8.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Heracross Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Gligar: 91-108 (27.3 - 32.4%) -- 74.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Heracross Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 199-235 (47 - 55.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 187-222 (44.2 - 52.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
 
Mamoswine: S-Rank

I think when you look at the top 10 mons, it is safe to say Mamoswine is going to be an immediate impact and definitely suspect worthy. LO Mamoswine beats 7/10 of these 1v1. It obliterates stall, sets up rocks, and can kill both Salamence and Aerodactyl with Ice Shard after Stealth Rock.

| 1 | Salamence | 18.062% |
| 2 | Florges | 17.414% |
| 3 | Forretress | 17.104% |
| 4 | Crobat | 14.547% |
| 5 | Entei | 14.336% |
| 6 | Empoleon | 13.789% |
| 7 | Hydreigon | 13.717% |
| 8 | Krookodile | 12.569% |
| 9 | Aerodactyl | 12.334% |
| 10 | Suicune | 11.795%
 
Hmm not really a formal post but things I think could be cool to discuss:

Hitmonlee: Worthy of a ranking?

Darm: Is its frailty and easiness to wear down outweighing its attributes?

Camerupt: Lower or higher. Personally I like mega rupt a lot, but some people seems to think it has no niche.

I'd love to hear your guys' discussion on all of these, and of course on mamo/mandi!


Also going off what -Tynamo- said, Yanmega can also run hp ice to OHKO mence and get the same damage on Aero.
 
I'd say lets give it some time (a day or two) before making any new nominations regarding the recent drops

One thing that we had a lot of discussion on was moving Hydreigon to S. There was enough agreement about it among the council so I'm going to go ahead and move it up.
 
So can I ask why there was no mention of tentacruel? It seemed like a pretty solid number of players agreed on a drop so I would at least like to hear why it would not move.
As for Mamo absolutely agree with Laurel here, this thing is S rank material considering its amazing dual STAB, decent natural bulk, some solid utility that might be being overlooked such as a lead role, and amazing great power. It just has so few switch ins I can't agree with any rank below A and thats only for a preliminary rank.
Hydreigon moving to S is a bit odd to me however I am not completely surprised considering how popular the LO set has been as of late. I haven't really used hydra a whole lot lately so not in a great place to judge however I think the raise should have waited until the drops settled. Mamo and mandi can both hurt hydre's usage, mamo as a new offensive threat and mandi seems like it can form solid cores with mons who have great matchups against the dragon like florges. Like I said though I am not really in a great place to judge.
Mandibuzz is hard to guess for so imma need to see this thing in action first
 
why are we already discussing where mons that just dropped. We always give it a few days too see whats suspect/quick ban worthy so chill tf out
 
Hi everyone, Alakazam leaving is a huge blow to a lot of playstyles. While the Life Orb set was gaining popularity and was fantastic in the most recent metagame, the sash set was certainly one that couldn't e overlooked. Looking at Alakazam's stats you see 55/50/45/135/95/120 The notable stats as I've pointed out are the Special Attack and Speed stats. These outstanding stats allowed Alakazam to outspeed notable threats such as Mienshao, Infernape, Azelf, and a few others. Alakazam's absence in the tier leaves some teams with a hole for revenge killer on Offensively oriented teams. Bear with me now, I was jokingly looking for replacements when I stumbled on this gem. Who needs Alakazam anyways?

kadabra.gif

Kadabra @ Focus Sash
Timid nature
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
-Psychic
-Shadow Ball
-Dazzling Gleam
-Encore

As a formerly A+ ranked pokemon, Alakazam filled this revenge killer role admirably. Kadabra's stat line is actually rather impressive 40/35/30/120/70/105 He loses out on 15 base stats in both Speed and Special Attack but in terms of revenge killing, Kadabra is definitely comparable. A base 105 Speed stat leaves you outpacing a fair amount of threats sitting at or around the base 100 benchmark and 120 Special Attack makes you not a pushover. While definitely not the best thing in the tier, I could definitely see a C ranking for Kadabra given its similarity to such a highly ranked and regarded pokemon that just left.
 
Laurel said:
Mamoswine: S-Rank

I think when you look at the top 10 mons, it is safe to say Mamoswine is going to be an immediate impact and definitely suspect worthy. LO Mamoswine beats 7/10 of these 1v1. It obliterates stall, sets up rocks, and can kill both Salamence and Aerodactyl with Ice Shard after Stealth Rock.
te
| 1 | Salamence | 18.062% |
| 2 | Florges | 17.414% |
| 3 | Forretress | 17.104% |
| 4 | Crobat | 14.547% |
| 5 | Entei | 14.336% |
| 6 | Empoleon | 13.789% |
| 7 | Hydreigon | 13.717% |
| 8 | Krookodile | 12.569% |
| 9 | Aerodactyl | 12.334% |
| 10 | Suicune | 11.795%
Click to expand...

Speculation is not necessarily going to portray an accurate portrayal of how Mamoswine will fit in the UU metagame. Let's give a little bit of time before we rank it.

However, since Scrafty was already unviable and has fallen to RU, I now nominate it to Unranked, since its status as UU was the only thing keeping it ranked.
 
Sam said:
I'd say lets give it some time (a day or two) before making any new nominations regarding the recent drops

One thing that we had a lot of discussion on was moving Hydreigon to S. There was enough agreement about it among the council so I'm going to go ahead and move it up.
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Out of curiosity, which set made you think it was worthy of S-Rank ? Or was it a combination of all of its sets ?
 
Reasoning for Hydreigon: its one of the best Scarfers in a metagame where Scarfers are frequently a necessity for many teams. Most importantly, it sets itself apart from fellow potential revenge killers Salamence and Heracross with its access to U-turn, an amazing move for a Scarfer, and unlike Mienshao and Infernape, actually has bulk and a decent typing to take hits with. Its wallbreaking sets are also fantastic. Taunt/Roost@LO is becoming an increasingly popular threat that can shut down stuff like Suicune, while Specs is also a great set to use as seen in several UUPL battles, especially since now that many Florges are running Bold, allowing Hydreigon to 2HKO with Flash Cannon. Overall it has amazing offensive capabilities with no significant flaws or really any drawbacks to using it.
 
New Meta

Some things to think about:

Espeon: With Alakazam gone, the urge for a fast offensive psychic type allows room for espeon to get more use. Of coarse Alakazam had some really good niches over espeon such as FB and encore, but Espeon does tend to fill some of its roles along with providing a team with Magic bounce support.

Stoutland: Pretty much medicore. Moving down is inevitable.

Mega Abomasnow: This one is tricky. On one hand people might be using slowcloak Mamo where Aboma might see some more usage. On the other hand, Mamo is a go to for ice shard as it doesnt require a mega slot and has a powerful stab EQ. Both have great niches in the meta. I just dont know if Mamo will bring it up or allow to see no usage.
 
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Alfalfa said:
Speculation is not necessarily going to portray an accurate portrayal of how Mamoswine will fit in the UU metagame. Let's give a little bit of time before we rank it.

However, since Scrafty was already unviable and has fallen to RU, I now nominate it to Unranked, since its status as UU was the only thing keeping it ranked.
Click to expand...
Scrafty's already been unranked, don't worry.

I agree that it's best to wait a bit before ranking the new threats, but there's no hurt in estimating where a Pokémon would most likely end up. Mamoswine looks like an A threat at worst, if not A+. Best start out low, then see where things go from there on.
 
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