NOC Fallout New Vegas NOC [GAME OVER - Wastelanders Win]

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Spiffy said:
Do you disagree with either point?
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Uhh, yeah. One of said points was said in disagreement of something I said. And how does this relate to the fact that they contradict each other?

Also, do you think it's fair to say that you have been tunneling me and Jalmont pretty much all day? If not, why?
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You just explained why "if not". And. You AND Jalmont. And HD. Some tunnel.

Don't see the contradiction in the two things you cited.
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That was more for the irony. There's no contradiction there. You believe that under pressure mafia will crack. In the same post, you crack with a forced defense built entirely around WIFOM. Not to mention all the actual contradictions and manipulative arguments (changing the definition of tunnel to mean going after three people?).
 
I find that mafiscum playstyle is more focused on discussing the things people do say and not worrying about people who don't talk (ummmm amianki is from there right? that was my understanding if not ignore this) so it's not too surprising for me to hear that (although maybe i'm putting words in his mouth sorry!)

the problem with that is that you're basically putting off the inevitable of "oops look we don't know what to do since we lynched all the loudmouths and now we're stuck with no info on this inactive player." better to target that earlier (reasonably ofc it shouldn't suck up discussion) i m o
 
Jalmont

Yeah, I'm a scummer.

Spiffy

You're right and wrong at the same time. My main priority right now is to see where scum are on the Cancerous wagon. While yes, I said that there's definitely scum off that wagon as well, finding that scum doesn't really say as much.

Once there's more concrete info out on the table, I'll be able to cross-reference them and see where they fit into things.
 
I forgot to finish my thought.

You're right in that the game will fall into apathy which almost always results in a scumwin if only the inactive people stay alive while all the active posters get killed off (I even won a scumgame recently for this exact reason), but I think there's enough people not in that category for it not to be a huge issue right now.
 
ButteredToast said:
Finally, and this is a big point:



You were never under fire for telling a lie about your time zone. It helps to explain why you werent posting and gives you a very legitimate reason to possibly skate by. However let me point this out right now. None of us has changed our schedules, yet you have been one of the most vocal and talkative of the group. Where was this day 1? Where was this passion and self motivation to question people and give your opinions?
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-_________- Do you seriously not read my posts?? Saturday and Sunday were weekend so I was more active, I had mentioned that already day 1.
Anyway I will address the posts directed at me and will post my own set of scumreads when I get home.

"Hi everybody! I'm the village schnauzer! While I'm sad to see the Safeguard go, judging by how the day went, it could so easily have been me instead, so here's hoping we don't repeat the same mistakes tomorrow!"
 
As of this post, Mithril has subbed in for Ullar.

Day 2 Vote Count #1

Haunted Diamond (1): Celever, Spiffy, ButteredToast, PokeguyNXB, sunny004
PokeguyNXB (2): Spiffy, Fatecrashers, sunny004, Jalmont
Jalmont (2): Amianki, vonFiedler
Spiffy (1): vonFiedler, PokeguyNXB, Haunted Diamond, vonFiedler
Fatecrashers (1): Spiffy, Spiffy
Serious Bananas (0): Jalmont, Spiffy
sunny004 (1): Celever
vonFiedler (0): Jalmont
Not voting (4): Mithril, rssp1, Serious Bananas, Fatecrashers

As always, correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit: correction to the vote count, I missed PokeguyNXB unvoting Haunted Diamond.
 
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So I'm subbing for Ullar. I've been working my way through the thread, but need to sleep now. Unfortunately I'm pretty busy tomorrow but I'll try to make sure I have at least a couple thoughts in the thread today (Monday). Otherwise I should become more active starting Tuesday.
 
I need to go to school soon, so this can't be all that long, but I am NOT scum.

Spiffy said:
rssp1 Fatecrashers sunny004 PokeguyNXB Who are your top scum and town reads and why? After you answer, please cast a vote on someone (unless you're already voting for someone and I can't find it, or it would lead to majority).
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As I keep saying, I'm crap with reads, but if you REALLY want them, fine.

Top 3 Townreads (no particular order):
vonFiedler
rssp1
Amianki

Reasoning: These three are all making pro-town contributions, and it feels genuine.

Well, off to school, my top three scum reads when I get back.
 
I'm less certain on ButteredToast being scum now because his reply to Spiffy at the bottom of p25 feels very much like it's his stream of conscious and it's difficult to fabricate.

It felt like Von reacted pretty heavily to Jalmont's accusations which is kind of weird and I need to check deadline yesterday again when I have time, but at the same time I feel like a lot of it is coming from personal bias rather regardless of alignment so making something out of it is hard.

Celever, if the only suspicious thing about HD was him not dying, then why were you voting him in the first place?

Haunted Diamond, who is scum? Spiffy aside, I have no idea what you think of anyone else because you've spent the whole dayp phase defending yourself.

Sunny voting Pokeguy instead of me when he has a wagon and I don't is pretty weird? His opinion on the two of us is basically the same (even though I've been doing stuff while I've been around so his opinion on me kind of makes me feel like isn't reading the game) so idk why he thinks adding another vote to the same wagon is better then trying to get answers out of me? It just feels like a really easy vote imo.

Vote sunny004 for now.

For other people, I think Celever is probably town because he feels like the kind of person I would try to mislynch if I was scum? With his posts kind of being nonsensical at times, but at the same time I don't feel like they're threatening or anything. Jalmont, Aminaki and rssp1 still feel town, although the latter is kind of dropping a bit just because they feel a little less memorable then before. I keep going back and forth on Pokeguy because while his contributions aren't great he just kind of feels too clueless to be scum I guess? This is mostly me trying to explain my gut so idk how much sense this makes.

I don't really have solid reads on Von and Spiffy because I still feel like their play is being dictated by their personalities more then their alignment, and I don't really know them well enough to differentiate between the two. I don't think Spiffy is really lynchworthy at the moment thhough. I don't really know what to make of ButteredToast now either - I think his more recent posts have been decent but his earlier ones still kind of irk me. It doesn't really feel like Fatecrashers is doing much now but I had a weak townread on him early on so I'm kind of hesitant to push there.
 
rssp1 said:
I'm confused, Haunted has been posting quite a lot, so did he lie here or misinterpret what was told to him?
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Haunted Diamond said:
2) You got a post restriction, and have to include "Hi everybody! I'm the village announcer! While I'm sad to see the Safeguard go, judging by how the day went, it could so easily have been me instead, so here's hoping we don't repeat the same mistakes tomorrow!" in every message you post.
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Read post coming up next...

"Hi everybody! I'm the village schnauzer! While I'm sad to see the Safeguard go, judging by how the day went, it could so easily have been me instead, so here's hoping we don't repeat the same mistakes tomorrow!"
 
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Thanks LightWolf on helping edit some of Haunted Diamond's replies without his post restriction, this way we know for sure that Haunted Diamond isn't making sneaky edits in his posts. Still, please pay attention to your post restriction.
 
Town:
Rssp: Although he has been very inactive, his posts have a sense of logic to them, and he overall feels more like an inactive townie than a stealthy mafia....
Vonfiedler: Sounds like a more active and more experienced rssp to me. Although his actions in Day 1 had a Spiffy like dictatorshipness to them (I disagree with the logic of someone being the best lynch when they are likely town, but then again it might come from my lack of experience in NOC).
Buttered Toast: I don't really like his rude tone though.

IDK:
Spiffy: He has had a decent reasoning for most of his lynches, but sometimes he gets too stubborn to get something he wants (that could be unbeneficial to town) and the fact that he sometimes ignores the replies people make to his attacks makes him look suspicious in my eyes. Although, looking back at his posts in the Day 1 and Day 2, I can't apply the mafia mindset to him. So if he was anything scummy, I'd go for the third party role.
Celever: Day 1 I couldn't find anything against him, he was the only person besides spiffy to jump on my wagon with prior reasoning (although I didn't like the fact that he ignored my defenses). Day 2 when he suddenly started attacking me something rang in my head that: "Oh! there! that's the mafia that's trying to abuse the situation and get you lynched!" but then when everybody started to bandwagon on me, he was the one to breathe some sense into them. This kinda cleared him in my eyes, but his weird behaviour makes me lean IDK on him for now.
Serious Bananas: Taking a look at his posts, they have a townish logic to them. Though it's hard to judge someone with so few posts, so I'm leaning IDK for now.
Fatecrashers: I connected with his thinking pattern in the beginning of the game and he had a "curious town" feel to him. But looking at his overall behaviour, it's too self-perservant and cautious which is weird to me. Aside from that, his actions are possible to be associated with town (not jumping on bandwagons, posting logically).

Kinda scummy:
Jalmont: I really need to know more about his past games behaviour. He has been very weird throughout the game, I can associate it with inactivity and lack of experience, but looking at his join date it's hard to think like that. Still not someone I'd lynch today.
Aminaki: He himself hasn't really been much scummy, but looking at moi's posts in the first few pages his behaviour was too defensive (without too much pressure) and not overall townish. And aminaki is a sub for moi so yeah.
Sunny: Bandwagoner, can easily be seen as an inactive mafia with his overall behaviour. Still not quite sure about him, plus I like his jokes so I'd rather he stays for now :3

Current mafia read:
PokeguyNXB: Overall very inactive, but a few things catch my eyes about him:
1) Bandwagoning into the popular lynches,
2) Lack of any real defense except: You guys have said everything already...
3) When called out, he readily conforms to everything everyone says (evident in his latest posts and vote changes)
4) It doesn't help at all that his 3 townreads are the people who haven't lynched him.

For these reasons, unvote Spiffy (ih8u), vote PokeguyNXB

"Hi everybody! I'm the village announcer! While I'm sad to see the Safeguard go, judging by how the day went, it could so easily have been me instead, so here's hoping we don't repeat the same mistakes tomorrow!"
 
I just got through a lot of this after going to bed early after a long day at work. Always fun when you spend 2 hours on a tech support hotline. But regardless.

What has changed for you people to vote for Jalmont? Honestly, I do not get this. You guys got all offensive at me for bringing him up last time, and he hasn't changed a bit from Day 1. My argument for why I wanted to lynch was that in addition to weird mafia like behavior and not contributing despite knowing he should. The other reason I wanted to lynch him was because I saw from others comments and his play that he was just a bad player. I wanted to take him out last week because of three reasons. One, I read him mafia/anti-village based on his actions. Two, I thought he isn't contributing to the village and wouldn't be missed. Three, I knew he was a bad player that would distract us farther in our game.

However, you guys got on me for bringing this up. Funny how now after we lynched a person with a useful ability, we are still discussing Jalmont after we kind of knew what he was and what he would do. And this is after getting on me for bringing this up. Jalmont has played nothing but the same as he has day one. He lies, contradicts himself, makes personal arguments, and his thoughts on the game are baseless. You guys wanted to save him day 1 and convinced me to let go that he's perfect day 1 material. Now you want to change your mind and go clean up the mess you left after day one? Nothing has changed with Jalmont and his behavior. And now that we have more information and other targets, why are we moving backwards? x____x

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I'm in sharp opposition for voting for PokeguyNXB for the same reasons that I was against Cancerous. Almost the exact same I was against Cancerous actually. Not doing anything DOES NOT mean that he is mafia and actively playing behind the scenes while staying under the radar here. It more strongly means that he is just apathetic towards the game and doesn't want to take the two hour plus commitment every day to read through all the information and then try to contribute something useful. This is a terrible plan all around. We have better targets and information on people to go off of than to shoot ourselves in the foot and waste time by deleting off the inactive players.

With this, do we really want players who don't have anything to just make stuff up?

Also, just in case you haven't been paying attention, the night was delayed because inactive play. It means that there is someone out among the Pokeguys, Sonnys, Serious Bananas etc of the world that has a night action. If we go hunting on these people for no information we're flirting with danger here as one of these guys has a major role. I assume that because the day was so long that the mafia already had a sort of plan going into the night and just needed to execute. So I think personally the inactive role was village. And so I want to shy away from the baseless "omg he is inactive so he most def is a cunning mafia trying hide" thing again.

---

I'm working on trying to find other targets besides the ones we're already talking about but it's difficult. I expect more from Fate than what he has given but I'm not convinced by Spiffy's reasons to vote for him. I still feel uneasy on him. I feel like he picks and chooses his spots to post good, quality statements. And I feel like he is the best chance to be a very sly mafia. Stays active, posts a lot but not too much, makes astute points but very briefly explained and minimalistic. I feel like all of his contributions though aren't really taking a stance on anything, but just pointing out facts. He drops his nugget in here and then we take off on it and give our opinions in the void he creates. I feel that's highly manipulative and almost kind of ingenious. However, while I am uneasy, I in no sense want to vote him out on day two without more facts and observations on him.

I also think that Aminaki is a little bit strange in the same way that Fate is. Dropping unexplained nuggets all over the place about specific things not really going on in main discussion. He came into the game like a house on fire and I think we were all impressed, but most of his actions are done by reasons he doesn't want to take the time to explain.

I don't see how Celever is so town to people. I don't think a lot of his opinions are logical or astute. I don't have anything to go off of him as being mafia, but I sure don't have a read on him as being a villager.

Spiffy and Von contribute too much and have too much logic/explanation/unprompted thoughts on everything to really be a spreading misinformation and they're cool with me. Rssp1 has seemed genuinely interested in just understanding the game and what's going on. And everyone else falls into the category of being already discussed or being inactive.
 
Well, it's lunch break, and miraculously I have computer access! So now, my scum reads. I spent half my break simply reading the posts, so once again this'll be nice and short. However, I don't feel strongly enough about these reads to vote on them\\n, no real particular order.

Jalmont - acting pretty strange, lying a bit, but this could potentially be Jalmont being Jalmont
Spiffy - Picks and chooses to
 
Haunted Diamond said:
Vonfiedler: Sounds like a more active and more experienced rssp to me. Although his actions in Day 1 had a Spiffy like dictatorshipness to them (I disagree with the logic of someone being the best lynch when they are likely town, but then again it might come from my lack of experience in NOC).
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I have no idea what you mean. I made no such logic. You are either reffering to something BT said about Jalmont on Day 1, or to the fact that I was interested in lynching you, who are not "likely town" by anyone's list.

ButteredToast said:
What has changed for you people to vote for Jalmont?
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On Day 1 he did his silly and self-destructive no lynch plan, and that was the discussion then and the behavior that ultimately didn't warrant lynching.

We're lynching him for his Day 2 behavior, and for the fact that he instigated and provided much of the bad logic for the Cancerous lynch (and is now lynching Pokeguy for the same reasons).

When pressed about the Cancerous lynch, rather than defend himself, he tells everyone that I was never against it. After it takes an eternity to expose his lie, he twists his argument to being about how I should have tried harder to prevent the lynch, like I should have flown to people's houses and typed no lynch into their computer or something. The pattern is obvious; he's trying to throw the blame for his lynch on someone else. But the sheer lengths he has gone to for this is staggering.

It's noteworthy that now HD has jumped on the lynch as well, when he did the same with Cancerous. If Jalmont flips scum today, I think no one will have second thoughts about lynching HD tomorrow.

Spiffy and Von contribute too much and have too much logic/explanation/unprompted thoughts on everything to really be a spreading misinformation and they're cool with me.
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Why do you (and by extension anyone else) feel that his posts are logical when I have pointed out clear contradictions in them? He's saying just about any manipulative thing hoping it wins over the town, regardless of how obvious his words don't stack up side by side. He's contradicted himself over the course of the day, and over the course of single posts, numerous times.
 
Sorry 'bout that, school computers are extremely temperamental. Where was I? Ah yes.

Spiffy - Picks and chooses arguments to respond too, but he does make a few good points here or there
Fatecrashers - Joins the Cancerous wagon without adding anything, then does THE EXACT SAME THING again today on my wagon
sunny004 - same as above

...wait. Forget not voting, the bandwagoning TWICE is quite scummy. I did it once, but I point for point agreed with the reasoning, and it wasn't what seems to be today's final lynch, like this one is shaping up to be. Call me a hypocrite, but I had my reasons for my earlier vote, and they made sense, at least to me. These guys aren't even trying.

Lynch Fatecrashers
If Fate provides a good defense, sunny's next.
 
Everything BT says about PokeguyNXB is correct and should go without saying. I keep meaning to post about it, but then someone unvotes and it seems less important. But we are at 3 votes once again. If we get one more and the mafia aren't in this current lynch, they could hammer it (likely wouldn't, but then, the last one got four votes within 2 hours hammering it).

PokeguyNXB
Jalmont being Jalmont has to have some sort of limit. You're a bit overly concerned with people who have voted you to be honest, but what do you feel about Jalmont who is also on that wagon?
 
vonFiedler said:
I have no idea what you mean. I made no such logic.
Well you made no argument in answer to me, but your attitude was the same as spiffy.

unvote pokeguyNXB in case 4 votes is hammer (yesterday it was 8...)
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edit: "Hi everybody! I'm the village announcer! While I'm sad to see the Safeguard go, judging by how the day went, it could so easily have been me instead, so here's hoping we don't repeat the same mistakes tomorrow!"
 
Well I messed up the quoting again...

"Hi everybody! I'm the village announcer! While I'm sad to see the Safeguard go, judging by how the day went, it could so easily have been me instead, so here's hoping we don't repeat the same mistakes tomorrow!"
 
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