LO sand rush excadrill also runs spin, and air ballon adamant can 2KO to(assuming you re using 252/112/114). sp.def excadrill have mold breaker, so he can use toxic in mega sableye, mega blastoise have a chance to 2KO mega sableye after rocks, also if he switchs into a scald he needs to recover, mega blastoise will just keep spaming scalds until get a crit. the fact that kabutops almost never spin doesn't help to much, he can still 2KO sableye in rain. tentacruel not being common isn't important too i list every spinner in the meta, and tentacruel is more used than Mega-blastoise and Forretres. also how mega sableye beat clefable????
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Resource ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V3 - Read Post 3451 Page 139
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Simply put: the advent of Starmie has made the rapid spin support less amazing. I have seen a lot less of this thing because so many people run Starmie or other similar mons instead of Excadrill. The power of a sand cleaner is still good, but is being hurt by an increase in regular Gyarados, Mega Scizor, and Mega Alakazam. I don't feel there is that much to say here because I feel Excadrill is obviously not as good as it once was in gen 6.
Of the three pokemon you mentioned, only Alakazam really threatens, the other two just die to the SD set (Exca's best set imo).
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 16+ Def Mega Scizor: 321-380 (93.5 - 110.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 439-517 (111.7 - 131.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Even max defense Gyarados is OHKO'd after rocks. Excadrill has the Speed to threaten offensive teams and the power to blow holes in defensive ones. Also, Sand Rush Excadrill should not be using Rapid Spin, it has better things to be doing, and there are better things to do it with. Keep Excadrill A+.
LO sand rush Exca often runs SD > Rapid Spin. The only teason to run spin on it is if you can't fit another hazard remover onto your team. IDGAF if Kabutops can 2HKO my MSab if I'm not even going to switch it in lol, why in hell would you try to spinblock something that doesn't spin? Tenta can acid spray any non steel too, but bear in mind this thing has no recovery and doesn't enjoy taking damage while spamming a weak ass move to take out a mon who is just gonna switch out at -4 anyway. Anyway, as froggyboy said MSab isn't used as a spinblocker, more for magic bounce, solid typing giving it just 1 weakness and some cool resists/innunities and a nice utility movepool including WoW, recover and knock off.
Imunity to psychc and fighting is nice, but resistente to poison isn't that important, he can wall and kill gengar witch is good, but dragagle can just use draco meteor.
The point of using acid spray on sableye, is make him weaker to sclad, if he switch you spin.
Magic bounce, just one weaker and a good moverpool are good reasons to sableye be at a high tier, but the lack of good resisteces, being revenged killed very easily make him inferior to others defensives mons in A+
He switches out and then streight back in to block the spin and get rid of the SpD drops, so unless you predict the switchout and spin then it's still spinblocking you.
Also how is MSab easy tocrevenge kill? If you lack a fairy/MLop I don't see how you can revenge it.
I don't really see how you can discuss Mega Sableye dropping, in my opinion is one of the most obvious A+ pokemon in A+ right now, I can't imagine it going to S because it's honestly not as effective as Clefable, Altaria ect. But it is just as much defining as they are, it's presence in the tier has impacted all playstyles. offence shys away from using hazard stacking as M-Sableye effectively shuts down Azelf, Shuckle, Skarmory, Garchomp, Tyranitar, Landorus-therian and Ferrothorn. Though some of these mons have ways around it it still forces them to run a less than ideal set to deal with it. Mega Sableye effectively shuts down most balance cores, Starmie/Ferrothron/Hippowdown hazard stacking core which has increased in viability is demolished by Mega Sableye. And Mega sableyes defensive typing, stats and ability leaves few options for stall to deal with it outside of Clefable.
Personally, unless there's a large shift in the metagame I don't see Mega Sableye dropping, nor going to S
Personally, unless there's a large shift in the metagame I don't see Mega Sableye dropping, nor going to S
Been gone for a little bit and I feel it's time to weigh in on this Hoopa U business. So, I've messed around a little here and there with it, and I was a bit unhappy with my results. I honestly was hoping for it to be this awe inspiring behemoth that was going to absolutely demolish the tier. What I got was a Pokemon, that can beat most balance builds and demolish stall. . . So, cool, it's a stallbreaker that flat out gets bent by Heavily offensive teams. I really didn't think going in that speed would be nearly as much of a hindrance as it actually is. Most wallbreakers are slow, but not that slow. 80 is a terrible base speed if you're not fat enough to take attacks from all sides of the spectrum, and with that 60 Defense and 80 HP, it really shows that Hoopa just can't take physical hits, which is really what makes Hoopa's speed so underwhelming. Basically, it loses to physical threats, and there are a lot of them out there at the moment. Now, up until now, I have been pointing out all of Hoopa's downsides. I have yet to even begin to scratch the surface of this Monster's good points. So what are its good points? Stall is dead, it has exactly 0 things for Hoopa and will likely become very scarce in its wake. Balance has an obnoxiously hard time dealing with it as well since essentially nothing can come in on its hard, as absolute fuck, attacks. 160 Atk and 170 Spa is nothing to scoff at. They are absolutely AMAZING base offenses, think of how hard KyuB hits on the physical side and realize that Hoopa can hit that hard from either side. Hoopa is a serious force to be reckoned with for these two archetypes. Thing is, Hoopa's introduction could not have possibly come at a better time. The meta started to slowly become very centered around Balance and Bulky Offense, making it what a lot of people have considered "stale". Now, with Hoopa's inclusion, that could all change, it made Offense all the better while Balance and stall took a pretty major hit, since if you see Hoopa on the other end, it could very well be over before it even begins. Hoopa is a MASSIVE threat to anything that isn't HO. I honestly don't feel Scarf Hoopa is all that great, as, even with a Scarf it's slow as absolute dog shit, and choice locking it really takes away from its absolutely massive offensive stats and amazing coverage and movepool.
so where do I think it should be placed? Well, that's something I've kind of been teeter-tottering on. It should definitely not be any lower than A+, that's for sure, but I'm not quite sure if S is completely fitting for it just yet. I'd say we give it a little more than 10 days and see if and how the meta changes to fit its needs and go from there. But, either way I can honestly say, with exactly 0 doubt in my mind, Hoopa is for sure an A+ 'mon.
so where do I think it should be placed? Well, that's something I've kind of been teeter-tottering on. It should definitely not be any lower than A+, that's for sure, but I'm not quite sure if S is completely fitting for it just yet. I'd say we give it a little more than 10 days and see if and how the meta changes to fit its needs and go from there. But, either way I can honestly say, with exactly 0 doubt in my mind, Hoopa is for sure an A+ 'mon.
Mega Sableye is so matchup reliant that it has to drop because a lot of things on offense can 2HKO msab, and it is quite easy to take advantage of for the more common mons in the meta. Keldeo sets up on sableye any day of the week, and can cripple msab with burns (althought this isnt an S rank). Clefable is immune to will-o-wisp with magic guard, and it can stop cm sableye cold with its unaware set while not even being OHKO'd by +6 sableye with the MG set. Mega Alt can easily set up vs msab with heal bell, and msab has to switch out anyways fearing being nuked by fairy STAB. Megazardx can easily dd on msab, and isnt even OHKO'd by +1 foul play. The only S rank that Mega Sableye can even deal with is mega metagross, and mega sableye can't even switch in with full investment because of how powerful the thing is, so I think a drop is warranted given how badly msab fares against the premier pokemon in the meta. Mega Sableye to A
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 132-156 (43.4 - 51.3%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 0- Atk Mega Sableye Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 234-276 (78.7 - 92.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 0- Atk Mega Sableye Foul Play vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 133-157 (43.3 - 51.1%) -- 5.5% chance to 2HKO
4 SpA Mega Sableye Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 84-99 (26 - 30.6%) -- 1.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Keldeo Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 174-205 (57.2 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+6 4 SpA Mega Sableye Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 96+ SpD Clefable: 270-318 (68.5 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (it easily loses the cm war)
4 SpA Mega Sableye Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Unaware Clefable: 84-99 (21.3 - 25.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 174-206 (57.2 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 0- Atk Mega Sableye Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 234-276 (78.7 - 92.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 0- Atk Mega Sableye Foul Play vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 133-157 (43.3 - 51.1%) -- 5.5% chance to 2HKO
4 SpA Mega Sableye Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 84-99 (26 - 30.6%) -- 1.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Keldeo Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 174-205 (57.2 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+6 4 SpA Mega Sableye Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 96+ SpD Clefable: 270-318 (68.5 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (it easily loses the cm war)
4 SpA Mega Sableye Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Unaware Clefable: 84-99 (21.3 - 25.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 174-206 (57.2 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
We literally just moved Rotom-W down to A- for the same reasons people are listing now. There isn't need for a further drop.
I'll admit the A and A+ groups seem a bit saturated. There are a few things I could see warranting a drop that I can add on or bring up for discussion.
Gliscor for A-? This isn't a strong recommendation, but I'm curious regarding feedback because I think there have been some meta shifts not in its favor. For one, it faces a lot of competition from popular Ground types in Hippo, Garchomp and Lando-T, and it can be difficult to compound the Ice and Water weaknesses. It also doesn't punish HO teams as well as Tankchomp or Intimidate Lando-T. Gliscor performs better against balance and Semo-Stall with its recovery and status immunity. Finally, popularity of wallbreakers in KyuB, Manaphy and Hoopa-U are all very bad news, as is Weavile. I don't know, I just don't think it is as useful as the Lando-I days before Hoopa-U.
Mega Diancie for A? I don't know, maybe I just suck with her, but I've had far more difficulty getting Mega Diancie to perform as consistently as Mega Lopunny or Mega Scizor. The base 50 HP and Speed are just wretched. It's most effective with 4 attacks and you have to hope that your opponent will assume you're going to Protect the initial turn. But then HP Fire means you are outsped by the rest of the 110 tier which is a huge problem. I mean yeah, when played right it is so difficult to handle from its speed and Magic Bounce, I guess just compared to other megas it is so much harder to get to that threatening point, unlike Intimidate M-Gyarados or Fake Out M-Lopunny for instance.
I'll admit the A and A+ groups seem a bit saturated. There are a few things I could see warranting a drop that I can add on or bring up for discussion.
Gliscor for A-? This isn't a strong recommendation, but I'm curious regarding feedback because I think there have been some meta shifts not in its favor. For one, it faces a lot of competition from popular Ground types in Hippo, Garchomp and Lando-T, and it can be difficult to compound the Ice and Water weaknesses. It also doesn't punish HO teams as well as Tankchomp or Intimidate Lando-T. Gliscor performs better against balance and Semo-Stall with its recovery and status immunity. Finally, popularity of wallbreakers in KyuB, Manaphy and Hoopa-U are all very bad news, as is Weavile. I don't know, I just don't think it is as useful as the Lando-I days before Hoopa-U.
Mega Diancie for A? I don't know, maybe I just suck with her, but I've had far more difficulty getting Mega Diancie to perform as consistently as Mega Lopunny or Mega Scizor. The base 50 HP and Speed are just wretched. It's most effective with 4 attacks and you have to hope that your opponent will assume you're going to Protect the initial turn. But then HP Fire means you are outsped by the rest of the 110 tier which is a huge problem. I mean yeah, when played right it is so difficult to handle from its speed and Magic Bounce, I guess just compared to other megas it is so much harder to get to that threatening point, unlike Intimidate M-Gyarados or Fake Out M-Lopunny for instance.
Those calcs are all very well and correct but why would you either switch sableye in or leave it in vs mons that counter it?
Sableye is one of those mons that does its particular role: Hazard control and either utility or set up. Its utility moveset is superior to the cm one and its really insane how many roles you can compress into one mon by itself. Here is the setup i run:
Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD
Impish Nature
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Fake Out
- Knock Off
With this you can tank a large amount of neutral hits which is where he excels and not in tanking super effective hits:
252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 200+ Def Mega Sableye: 114-135 (37.6 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Bisharp Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 200+ Def Mega Sableye: 90-106 (29.7 - 34.9%) -- 13.8% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 200+ Def Mega Sableye: 105-124 (34.6 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 200+ Def Mega Sableye: 109-130 (35.9 - 42.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 200+ Def Mega Sableye: 108-127 (35.6 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 200+ Def Mega Sableye: 109-130 (35.9 - 42.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Bisharp Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 200+ Def Mega Sableye: 90-106 (29.7 - 34.9%) -- 13.8% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 200+ Def Mega Sableye: 105-124 (34.6 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 200+ Def Mega Sableye: 109-130 (35.9 - 42.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 200+ Def Mega Sableye: 108-127 (35.6 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 200+ Def Mega Sableye: 109-130 (35.9 - 42.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
These are just a few (very) common A+ and A mons that it can easily wall, and guess what you rarely have to worry about the 3hkos turning into 2hkos due to hazards because you're excellent at keeping them off the field! Hooray! With proper team support he can become a nightmare for opponents to deal with as:
He is very resistant to dying, has a fairly decent movepool to chose from and performs outstandingly at the role he is designed for, hazard control and annoying the fuck out of your opponent.
Pretty much a signature A+ mon in my book
I agree with you on the Gliscor one. In my opinion Hippo simply fits the meta better at the moment and therefore I see no reason to give it an A ranking. I think an A- would fit it better at the moment
My thoughts on Mega Diancie; I've used pretty much all of the mega fairies to some degree and while Mega Diancie is the fastest and most offensive oriented of the bunch I don't see it as having any more or less viability than say, Mega Gardevoir. While the two don't seem comparable at first they both have strengths and weaknesses over the other (such as gard's comparative ease of mega evolving and diancie's ability to check birds). I guess my question is why should diancie be A+ while gard is only A. IMO gard should move up or diancie should move down. Lol I know it seems like I tried to write about both (and failed) but those are my thoughts on the two mon's placements based on strict viability :P
ok i liked AM's post saying "serperior isn't moving up" but i then got curious of WhiteQueen assault vest serperior set and i realized this thing shouldn't be in a-. the set beats assault vest tornadus-t as it wears itself down by switching into leaf storm and stealth rock, eventually falling to +2 hidden power rock which does around 43% from my experience. giga drain is something i played with on the same set and it lets you completely rip through passive teams because it lets you negate status damage such as scald burns and keeps you healthy to tank hits. also pretty much the rest of specially based metagame faster than serperior loses when packing an assault vest set such as raikou, mega alakazam, and starmie's life orb ice beam only does around 66% while you heal yourself back with giga drain. coba berry, miracle seed, and leftovers sets are good as always. i ran it with magnezone and it is just ridiculous how this thing completely invalidates balance teams with proper support which you don't even need much of. you can run hidden power [fire], but i was just experimenting with rock. fire is generally better if you are limited on teamslots anyways. the one thing i see is people just throw a serperior on their team but don't support it which is why the common thought is it is an a- 'mon. look at the rest of the a- rankings and serperior is better than most (if not all) of them.
being able to set-up by attacking is way to good to be a- to be honest allowing you to take advantage of weakened 'mons while boosting up. i propose a rise to a rank because i think that wq kind of over exaggerated with a+ rank. i know no one is going to agree with me, but i'll give it a shot.
e: also would like to put out there that tornadus-t is a shitty check to serperior. idk why people call it a counter when it can get paralyzed, misses hurricane, and overpredicts causing you to lose more 'mons in the process or just stack up more damage on your so claimed "serperior counter"
being able to set-up by attacking is way to good to be a- to be honest allowing you to take advantage of weakened 'mons while boosting up. i propose a rise to a rank because i think that wq kind of over exaggerated with a+ rank. i know no one is going to agree with me, but i'll give it a shot.
e: also would like to put out there that tornadus-t is a shitty check to serperior. idk why people call it a counter when it can get paralyzed, misses hurricane, and overpredicts causing you to lose more 'mons in the process or just stack up more damage on your so claimed "serperior counter"
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The way i see it, gliscor is better because of how prevalent bulky chomp and hippo are as it can come in for basically free and toxic or knock off or whatever else it wants to do. I will admit that lanT can just set up SDs on gliscor but stone edge isn't the best move in the game, and even +2 doesn't KO. Hell it needs +4 to come close, and this is sp def variants. In the meantime it can be racking up tons of damage with toxic+roost/protect
252+ Atk Landorus-T Stone Edge vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Gliscor: 107-127 (30.3 - 36%) -- 9.8% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal
Besides, popularity of mana, kyu-b, weav, and hoopa are bad news for the other bulky grounds too so idk why gliscor should be dropped for it.
You're right that its lost some use since lando-i left but its still a good mon, its just better vs bulkier builds which aren't as common, so the other grounds which have better matchup vs offense end up being used more. But glisc has reliable healing unlike lanT and chomp, and isn't passive with taunt/toxic shenanigans or SD unlike hippo, so it definitely has its merits compared to the other three.
mdiancie i could see dropping tbh, i'm fine with it in A or A+.
Well I wasn't thinking of Gliscor's ranking based on how it faces other Ground types, it was more its match up vs HO teams and Garchomp's passive damage and Lando-T's Intimidate tend to be better suited for those reasons. Gliscor is obviously still awesome with tons of unique qualities, I just think it is a bit overshadowed currently in comparison.
I think mega bannete and reg sableye should be switched places. I tried sableye out in OU and he did alright with knock off, recover, wil o wisp and taunt with 252 HP and 128 Def, and 128 Special Def.
Sableye can do exactly what mega bannete can do except a little better bc he has access to recover while mega bannetes only form of recovery is pain split.
So there is very little reason to use mega bannete. He's got a little more bulk which and more offensive presents but that's defiantly not worth ur mega slot ever. The only reason I could even force myself to use him anywhere but RU is destiny bond. That's the only advantage that matters a lot. But to dedicate ur mega slot to destiny bond isn't worth it. But sableye gets recover which overshadows that anyway in my opinion. Let me know what u think!
Sableye can do exactly what mega bannete can do except a little better bc he has access to recover while mega bannetes only form of recovery is pain split.
So there is very little reason to use mega bannete. He's got a little more bulk which and more offensive presents but that's defiantly not worth ur mega slot ever. The only reason I could even force myself to use him anywhere but RU is destiny bond. That's the only advantage that matters a lot. But to dedicate ur mega slot to destiny bond isn't worth it. But sableye gets recover which overshadows that anyway in my opinion. Let me know what u think!
Mega Gyarados - What exactly is keeping this thing in A+? It's a pretty cool mon, don't get me wrong, but I think it seems pretty out of place in A+ when you look at the other things that share that rank right now (mons that are super easy to throw on a team like Tornadus-T, Mega Scizor, Garchomp etc...) It can be pretty dangerous against unprepared teams, sure, but it has to choose between coverage to hit things like Mega Altaria or Taunt / Sub to be more effective against defensive cores. (I think taunt is way better for this in my experience, I never saw the appeal of Sub for stallbreaking outside of like setting up on scalds from bulky waters. It's kinda cool to prevent being RK'd by things on offense though.) I just don't think it's quite as consistent or easy to fit on a team as the rest of the stuff in A+, and trends in the meta are not really that favorable to it- most teams will have ways of stopping it without really having to go out of their way to prepare for it (think Altaria, Ferrothorn, Skarm if you lack taunt, Keldeo, Azumarill, etc.) Yeah it doesn't have to mega right away and it has a decent amount of defensive utility when you take that into account, but not having any form of recovery really limits it in that regard. I'm not trying to downplay Mega Gyarados too much because I've used it quite a bit and I do think it's a rather good mon, but I just don't realistically see why it should be A+ when I look at the things it shares that rank with.
Gengar - I said something about this a few pages back but I still don't see why it's in A+; its Life Orb set is only really effective against one playstyle and it provides barely any defensive utility when you compare it to other breakers like Manaphy and Kyurem-B. Also, for a mon that's supposed to do well against balance it has a hard time dealing with some of the most common Pokemon on balance right now! (think AV Tornadus-T, Scarfttar, Pursuit Weavile, Starmie, Alakazam, Raikou etc.) Sure not much wants to switch in, but to put it simply it's just not as hard to check as it was in late XY / early ORAS. Drop to A is more realistic in my opinion, it's a good mon and it complements offensive threats like Zard X, Lopunny, etc quite well- but it's rather prediction reliant and balance has adapted to it as of late from what I've seen.
Diancie - Not going to go into detail here, I don't have anything new to add that hasn't already been said by someone else but I support a drop to A.
Tyranitar - Out of curiosity, what exactly keeps this thing out of A+? It's simply one of the most splashable mons in the tier for any playstyle and sand is better than ever right now. The amount of offensive and defensive utility this thing can provide to a team is just immense. This isn't really a nomination or anything, I'm just wondering since I've never seen any discussion on it.
Gengar - I said something about this a few pages back but I still don't see why it's in A+; its Life Orb set is only really effective against one playstyle and it provides barely any defensive utility when you compare it to other breakers like Manaphy and Kyurem-B. Also, for a mon that's supposed to do well against balance it has a hard time dealing with some of the most common Pokemon on balance right now! (think AV Tornadus-T, Scarfttar, Pursuit Weavile, Starmie, Alakazam, Raikou etc.) Sure not much wants to switch in, but to put it simply it's just not as hard to check as it was in late XY / early ORAS. Drop to A is more realistic in my opinion, it's a good mon and it complements offensive threats like Zard X, Lopunny, etc quite well- but it's rather prediction reliant and balance has adapted to it as of late from what I've seen.
Diancie - Not going to go into detail here, I don't have anything new to add that hasn't already been said by someone else but I support a drop to A.
Tyranitar - Out of curiosity, what exactly keeps this thing out of A+? It's simply one of the most splashable mons in the tier for any playstyle and sand is better than ever right now. The amount of offensive and defensive utility this thing can provide to a team is just immense. This isn't really a nomination or anything, I'm just wondering since I've never seen any discussion on it.
Mega Sableye doesn't have much buisness dropping down to A. Mega Sableye, in my experience is always a nuisance, much like Rotom-Wash. They both share a low 50 hp, and nice defenses and have access to wisp. However, mega sableye makes it self much more of a nuisance long term due to having access to reliable recovery and a unique defensive typing, leaving it weak to only fairy type moves. The typing however isn't ideal as although it provides 3 useful immunities and a resistance to poison, it is still left without resists to 13 of the remaining types. Even so, i often find that medium grade attacks from those remaining types arent sufficient enough to 2 hko sableye, and it in fact only really folds to the strongest wallbreakers in the tier. Even then, mega sableye can wall LO Gengar with max spdef, and walling that is a godsend for balance teams. Going back to the 3 immunities sableye has, i think people are forgetting that they grant Sableye to hard check other powerful wallbreakers/stallbreakers that threaten balance and stall such as Gallade, Mega Medicham, Reniculus, Alakazam. Now that we got that out of the way, lets not forget how potent a stall breaker sableye is thanks to magic bounce. Sableye is hard to wear down for more defensive teams because of this, and the most powerful trait of magic bounce is its ability to keep hazards off the field! This is a hazard centric metagame and keeping hazards off the field in itself can be a win con. Sableye is also in a unique position as the only OU magic bouncer that has a great matchup versus almost every hazard setter in the tier, as mega diancies rock typing leaves it weak to ground type rock setters, and espeon and absol are too frail on the defensive side. We can unban the D and S Deoxys formes too because Mega Sableye can stop them from setting hazards as well.
Here is a replay of mega sableye in action in a recent WCOP game. Mega Sableye versus Sand Offense. Mega Sableye pretty much did its job in preventing hazards from going up. Mega Sableye really pressures teams that lack a fairy or fire type imo, as the only check the opponent really had to it was keldeo despite the fact other members of the team could overpower it such as the Excadrill. However, Keldeo doesn't exactly appreciate switching into wisp simply because it gets worn down, and certainly doesnt like switching into toxic on dual status sableye sets. i think dual status Sableye is a very potent set as toxic allows sabeleye to wear down other traditional checks besides Keldeo, such as Gardevoir, both Zard mega formes , Talonflame, Emboar, and Mega Houndoom. Unfortunately tho, the dual status sets still falls short as it is unable to threaten heatran, certain mega altaria variants, Mega Diancie, Clefable, normal Heracross, Mega Absol, and stall breaker Manaphy.But when u look at that list carefully, you can see one of the (many ) reasons why Clefable is splashable on many teams as mega sabeleye is often otherwise annoying to deal with. Heatran can lose to the lesser viable CM set, Mega Diancie is a mega, Mega altaria is a mega and only facade/heal bell sets can deal with wisp/toxic, Manaphy doesn't appreciate toxic unless its rain dance, normal Heracross isn't all that popular, and Mega Absol is a mega that also has a bunch of crippling flaws that prevent it from being common OU.
Hence, Mega Sableye is able to blanket check a large portion of the metagame thanks its to bulk,typing and utility; shuts down most hazard setters, and usually sticks around longer than Rotom Wash. Keep it A+.
Here is a replay of mega sableye in action in a recent WCOP game. Mega Sableye versus Sand Offense. Mega Sableye pretty much did its job in preventing hazards from going up. Mega Sableye really pressures teams that lack a fairy or fire type imo, as the only check the opponent really had to it was keldeo despite the fact other members of the team could overpower it such as the Excadrill. However, Keldeo doesn't exactly appreciate switching into wisp simply because it gets worn down, and certainly doesnt like switching into toxic on dual status sableye sets. i think dual status Sableye is a very potent set as toxic allows sabeleye to wear down other traditional checks besides Keldeo, such as Gardevoir, both Zard mega formes , Talonflame, Emboar, and Mega Houndoom. Unfortunately tho, the dual status sets still falls short as it is unable to threaten heatran, certain mega altaria variants, Mega Diancie, Clefable, normal Heracross, Mega Absol, and stall breaker Manaphy.But when u look at that list carefully, you can see one of the (many ) reasons why Clefable is splashable on many teams as mega sabeleye is often otherwise annoying to deal with. Heatran can lose to the lesser viable CM set, Mega Diancie is a mega, Mega altaria is a mega and only facade/heal bell sets can deal with wisp/toxic, Manaphy doesn't appreciate toxic unless its rain dance, normal Heracross isn't all that popular, and Mega Absol is a mega that also has a bunch of crippling flaws that prevent it from being common OU.
Hence, Mega Sableye is able to blanket check a large portion of the metagame thanks its to bulk,typing and utility; shuts down most hazard setters, and usually sticks around longer than Rotom Wash. Keep it A+.
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Alright, well you do realize this same exact type of argument could be applied to quite a few mons in A+? Let's take Landorus-T as a hypothetical example, it's forced to switch out against the likes of Weavile, Skarmory, Chesnaught, Azumarill, Gliscor, Rotom-W, Mamoswine, etc. and also faces some competition from other bulky grounds. This is completely ignoring what it brings to the table with a ground immunity, intimidate to check physical attackers such as Zard X, momentum with U-turn, SR, as well as the potential to become an effective revenge killer with a scarf - the reasons it's in A+ to begin with. Look at Tyranitar from a teambuilding / role compression perspective and things aren't quite so cut and dry IMO. I know my example may seem irrelevant as these are two very different mons but I'm trying to illustrate a point here.
This is true, and one of the biggest flaws with scarftar is that it's unable to outspeed things like Torn-T, Zam, Weavile, and Lopunny that it would be able to check if its speed was a bit higher. The question is, are these flaws enough to keep it from rising? I know there is a certain amount of subjectivity when it comes to sorting the higher ranks but no Pokemon is without flaws.
I said it's splashable on ANY playstyle, not just sand. I think you're looking at this a little too linearly, look at the role compression it brings as a flying resist and a pursuit trapper to get rid of the most common hazard removers right now (Starmie, Latis.) as well as a check to mons like Zard Y, Talonflame, Kyurem-B, Gengar, Thundurus, Bisharp, etc. Which is absolutely AMAZING to fit in a single teamslot for balance, especially on hazard stacking teams. And that's just the scarf set- other sets like a special lure to roast Skarmory, Tankchomp, Lando-T, Gliscor, Ferrothorn, and Scizor are also very effective, especially on sand teams. Chople is pretty nice too, you keep the utility of being a one time check to Gengar, Zam, Torn-T, and Zard Y while also being able to use utility moves like T-Wave and SR! As a sand setter it does face some degree of competition from Hippo, but everything else it provides is so unique that I don't think it's fair to compare them outside of that. IMO Hippo in A+ wouldn't really be that outlandish either.
With that said, I'm not sure myself if TTar should be A+, but I don't agree with the premise of some of your arguments in your post.
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Sableye doesn't get Destiny Bond. End of story.
Why is Mega Latios in C Rank? It doesn't do a thing regular Latios doesn't other than some niche rot like DD, although EQ lure variants get a slightly more powerful EQ and it takes no LO recoil, although it's considerably weaker. It also has 20 higher base def and 10 higher base SpD. Is that really a C worthy niche for a mega? I'd rather use quite a few E rank mons before this thing. I've never seen a good player use this thing. It's really not worthy of a C rank; and I propose it drops to D.
Edit: I'd forgot about the Offensive CM set, which is actually a decent set, although I still think C is a bit high for it, and I now think it should go C-, as it fits more with the C- mons than the C ones.
Edit: I'd forgot about the Offensive CM set, which is actually a decent set, although I still think C is a bit high for it, and I now think it should go C-, as it fits more with the C- mons than the C ones.
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Yea but what ur saying isn't much o a good argument. Ur basically having this mega to trade of for another Pokemon. With sableye u could wil o wisp something like kyruem or hoopa.
I personally support keeping M-Latios ranked, but you neglect to mention in your post that if you happen to build a Latios team without a mega there is literally no reason to not use Mega Latios unless you are running Dual Screens as, if you look at the two in a vaccum (i.e. looking at the pokemon themselves without worrying about the presence of other megas), Mega Latios is better than LO Latios due to the fact that the small decrease in special power (this is very rarely noticeable anyway tbh) is completely outweighed by the lack of LO recoil, the "resistance" to Knock Off, the noticable increase in bulk and (if applicable) lacking need of investment for EQ due to the naturally higher power than LO Latios' EQ. The points as to why it is so low are correct in your post tho :)
I suggest you read ben gay's post on why it is ranked where it is, and really M-Banette is surprisingly useful and regular Sableye will almost never be used without its mega stone anyway due to the fact that it only really works well when used in conjunction iirc, making the opportunity cost point basically mute. I'll quote it below for you to read, as he has basically everything covered and you are seriously underrating the value of being able to eliminate a major threat to your team without using something which is completely dead weight when nothing your team struggles with is on the opponent's team (like with Gothitelle) due to just how valuable the kind of support that M-Banette provides is.
The replay says ubers, but if you watch it you'll see it is actually an OU match played on smogtours' ubers thing.
Also Banette also gets Wisp and T-Wave anyway so idk why you're bringing that up .-.
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Sableye has done that sourtta thing for me as well. He recovers in between. Move set: wisp, taunt, recover, and knock off. Not to mention sableye has much better typing only having 1 weakness only. So sableye can do basically what bannete can do. Bannete can do it a little better but still not having recovery isn't good. A Draco meteor from latios would probably end what bannete and sableye can do right then.
Not to mention that every body will expect u to be a mega sableye so they won't try and set up anything on u and u always have taunt as well. Sableye can also hold leftovers while bannete has to hold a mega stone and everyone knows if u bring a bannete its mega. And it still takes up ur mega slot.
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