Guys... Thundurus-T to B-? Anybody? Anyway... if you want me to elaborate on why it should rise, it provides a great match-up versus the prevalent offensive teams, it offers great utility and offers a nice counter to VoltTurn since it is immune to VoltSwitch bar ability changing, and resistance to U-Turn. That said, Thundurus-T usually runs sets to bypass its speed flaws with either DoubleDance or Scarf, while DoubleDance tears apart balance teams, HO finds itself against the wall against Scarf Sets. It also is just a tad bit ahead of the 100 speed tier, meeting an important benchmark for being able to revenge +1 ZardX and the likes. (Note: This is for the Scarf set). It also gets ways of getting past its conventional counters like Superpower for weakened Chanseys/Ttars and Grass Knot for Hippo/(Water/Ground) types. It also works well in the rain due to getting 100% Thunders off and brings nice momentum. I recently have been finding success in running a 2 Damage Balance rain team with Thundurus-T+M-Swampert with 4 supporting mons. Overall, I think that Thundurus-T has the ability to be a huge threat with its good special attack and presents itself as a threat if under the right conditions.
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Resource ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V3 - Read Post 3451 Page 139
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Like, the opportunity cost of not being able to run Thundurus-I is bad enough, but your arguments are very iffy at best. Thundy-T doesn't even stop VoltTurn as well as you'd think it would: the main Volt Switchers that teams have to worry about are Mega Manectric and Raikou; MMane can do massive damage with either Overheat or HP Ice, while either AV Raikou or CM Raikou doesn't even care about Thundy-T. Please elaborate how on earth Thundy-T is supposed to revenge XZard when its strongest attack in Focus Blast does a mere 54-64%, plus Thundy-I does the job better with Prankster Thunder Wave in any case. Thundy-I also performs largely the same offensive roles Thundy-T would attempt to do (it even has a stronger Superpower), plus it has superior utility in Prankster TWave when compared to Volt Absorb. Thundy-T being unable to naturally outpace the base 108s and 110s ultimately seals its fate, and is very rarely worth picking over other Electric mons in the tier.
If anything I'm thinking Thundy-T warrants a drop to C if anything else; it has a similiar kind of opportunity cost to Mega Latios, except while Mega Latios is fundamentally a superior Latios, Thundy-T tends to be a worse Thundy-I.
I'm not necesarrily for or against a Thundy-T raise, but I would note that a few weeks ago people were nomming Stunfisk to be an electric-type stopper on offense. I know that was a bit ago, but I feel like if we're having to scrape the bottom of the barrel just to stop them, a good volt-absorber would be appreciated on offensive teams. And I think you are overestimating the oppurtunity cost of using Thundy-T over Thundy-I, to the point where I don't really believe there is any oppurtunity cost. They both have different, albeit similar, jobs; and it's not exactly Thundy-I's hayday like it was back in XY where it was S Rank, what with hippo on the rise among other things.
The thing with the Thundurus-T nomination is while you outlined a bunch of its strong points you didn't really explain what has changed to make it better. Like yeah you can kinda make an argument that it was overlooked but it's not like the ranking team doesn't give a shit about the lower ranks or has never used them, so I'm pretty sure that's not the case.
Last time I checked Scarf was actually kinda bad and it was really only worth it for setup sets. The main issue is that while it is stronger than its Incarnate form, it doesn't have any extra bulk to help it set up. Generally you're gonna want Leftovers to ease setup but this actually makes it weaker than Incarnate holding a Life Orb which doesn't need the turn to set up. Also Volt Absorb is a decent ability but it's still susceptible to the Ice type coverage that basically every electric type carries. I've used it (not extensively mind you) and I think C+ rank is fine -- it's a perfectly usable pokemon in the metagame but it requires a fair amount of support and doesn't achieve a sweep all that often.
Last time I checked Scarf was actually kinda bad and it was really only worth it for setup sets. The main issue is that while it is stronger than its Incarnate form, it doesn't have any extra bulk to help it set up. Generally you're gonna want Leftovers to ease setup but this actually makes it weaker than Incarnate holding a Life Orb which doesn't need the turn to set up. Also Volt Absorb is a decent ability but it's still susceptible to the Ice type coverage that basically every electric type carries. I've used it (not extensively mind you) and I think C+ rank is fine -- it's a perfectly usable pokemon in the metagame but it requires a fair amount of support and doesn't achieve a sweep all that often.
actually NP Thundy-T beats AV Raikou if it gets high rolls:
+2 252+ SpA Thundurus-T Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 32 SpD Assault Vest Raikou: 200-236 (62.3 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Raikou Hidden Power Ice vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus-T: 146-174 (44.2 - 52.7%) -- 23.8% chance to 2HKO
Not outspeeding base 108s and 110s isn't a tragedy either, as thundurus-t does get Agility to break through offensive teams and coverage in Thunderbolt/HP Ice/Focus Miss + modest nature and a LO means it does it fairly decently.
that said, i think Thundurus-T should stay where it is, the rise of Weavile is a pain for it and the NP set struggles to break through defensive cores that carry Mega Venu or unaware clef.
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I would like to nomm Mega Pidgeot to move a subrank up to B- or even up to B. While Tornadus-T certainly does gives it some competition, I think the value of 100% accurate Hurricane is really underestimated. A fast hurricane on such a mon is pretty insane, meaning that if the opponent decides to switch, you can easily have 51% chance of a confusion before the opponent even gets a chance to move. To put it to perspective, thats a higher chance than even landing Tornadus's hurricane twice.
Mainly I think Pidgeot deserves a rise with merit to its subroost set. When the almost unfair confusion rate from landing 2 hurricane is combined with sub, this actually lets Pidgeot to bs through a lot of would-be checks just with a combination of subroost and hurricane. Last move usually goes to work up or heat wave. With the hurricane confusion rate and sub, it is often not hard to get +1 or +2 even with an intact sub, which is really dangerous since there is only a small handful of stuff that can think of beating a +2 pidgeot behind a sub. Alternatively, with heat wave, you get a really fast sweeper with decent coverage and a surprising amount of sustainability simply because of that confusion rate allowing you to get a lot of free roosts.
While mainly this post would be for subroost, what I want to bring up, is that AoA Pidgeot with HP Fighting/Ground is perhaps the best receiver of NP in the tier. A good speed tier, a powerful primary stab with literally no drawbacks, and decent coverage, can really end a game the moment it gets a boost when the small handful of faster mons are removed. Even without receiving an NP, AoA Pidgeot can also let loose a lot of damage because stab hurricane is still stab hurricane.
Finally, I would say that Pidgeot doesn't even need much support. Something to lure ttar and Tran are probs nice to have, but its not actually impossible to get past them with the correct moves. The only partly necessary support would be spin support.
I typed this on phone so I can't provide replays at the moment, and would upload as soon as I get access to a computer.
Mainly I think Pidgeot deserves a rise with merit to its subroost set. When the almost unfair confusion rate from landing 2 hurricane is combined with sub, this actually lets Pidgeot to bs through a lot of would-be checks just with a combination of subroost and hurricane. Last move usually goes to work up or heat wave. With the hurricane confusion rate and sub, it is often not hard to get +1 or +2 even with an intact sub, which is really dangerous since there is only a small handful of stuff that can think of beating a +2 pidgeot behind a sub. Alternatively, with heat wave, you get a really fast sweeper with decent coverage and a surprising amount of sustainability simply because of that confusion rate allowing you to get a lot of free roosts.
While mainly this post would be for subroost, what I want to bring up, is that AoA Pidgeot with HP Fighting/Ground is perhaps the best receiver of NP in the tier. A good speed tier, a powerful primary stab with literally no drawbacks, and decent coverage, can really end a game the moment it gets a boost when the small handful of faster mons are removed. Even without receiving an NP, AoA Pidgeot can also let loose a lot of damage because stab hurricane is still stab hurricane.
Finally, I would say that Pidgeot doesn't even need much support. Something to lure ttar and Tran are probs nice to have, but its not actually impossible to get past them with the correct moves. The only partly necessary support would be spin support.
I typed this on phone so I can't provide replays at the moment, and would upload as soon as I get access to a computer.
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Why is Milotic not ranked :( I had assumed that it was at least in D-Rank. It didn't even make the cut for E.
In any case, Milotic -> C- or C
This is one of those cute forgotten treasures. Milotic has a very clear niche, and that is as a Mirror Coat user (marvel scale is pretty nice too).
Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Mirror Coat
- Recover
- Ice Beam / Dragon Tail / Toxic / Haze
Even without Spdef investment, it is crazy bulky on both sides. For reference:
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Milotic: 307-361 (78.1 - 91.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Milotic: 242-288 (61.5 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Milotic: 286-337 (72.7 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-B Fusion Bolt vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Milotic: 246-290 (62.5 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
The important thing to realize is that there are very few physical moves that are supereffective against milotic in ou. Breloom, Kyurem, and Victini are the only ones. This frequently puts the opponent in a check-mate sort of position where, even if they know you carry mirror coat, they have no real way to break you without a special move (and losing a mon in the process). This is especially true if you run dragon tail to prevent setup at the same time (though clefable makes a lovely partner if you choose to forego it. This also helps make up for milotic's lack of a fighting resistance in comparison to slowbro). Further discouraging physical moves is the obvious scald and, more uniquely, Marvel Scale. When Milotic is statused, her defense is boosted to almost that of a Mega Slowbro without a +def nature.
For reference:
+2 252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Marvel Scale Milotic: 192-226 (48.8 - 57.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and burn damage
0 SpA Milotic Scald vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 236-278 (72.1 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Marvel Scale Milotic: 204-252 (51.9 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and burn damage
0 SpA Milotic Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Breloom: 196-232 (75 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Hoopa-U Hyperspace Fury vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Marvel Scale Milotic: 118-139 (30 - 35.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery and burn damage
Aside from that, Milotic functions as a typical bulky water with above-average special attack. Its competition in this role (edit: role meaning a mirror-coat-bulky-water) is Alomomola, but Milotic is bulkier and much harder to set up on (especially with dragon tail). Alomomola can't damage anything, and it's a liability in this meta. If Alomomola is C+, then milotic certainly deserves a place in the C's. Also, Alomomola C+ -> C- or D for reasons listed. Not to mention that Clefable and Chansey are everywhere, meaning that wish support isn't as valuable of a niche as it was before.
Here is an obligatory replay that I pulled real quick. You can see both the checkmate situation that I described as well as how lovely marvel scale can be (in fact, both of these caused my opponent to forfeit). He has three electric types, but since none of them even come close to KO-ing, there is no way to come out without losing a mon or more. Something like Rotom-W isn't free to sit in milotic like it can against, say, slowbro, because milotic will KO a mon on the volt switch, statusing it only boosts it's defense, and every passed turn is an opportunity to scald burn.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-256117302
I think Milotic's best way to separate itself from other spongy Water-mons and the like is Haze. Haze prevents it from being set up fodder for Clefable, Mega Slowbro, Mega Sableye, Mega Zard X, SpD Talonflame (beware Taunt), SpD Gliscor, CM / Bulky Tail Glow Manaphy, and stuff that you never seem to burn with Scald. (note: Haze still works against Magic Bounce.) It also means that you can come in after Clefable and the like set up and Haze it. For instance, Clefable Calm Minds on your Ferrothorn as you lay down 3 layers of Spikes. Your opponent thinks you're screwed, then you come in and Haze it with Milotic. This happened to me a few times but I haven't used Milotic in awhile. Definitely requires more testing. Thought I'd bring it up since someone mentioned Milotic.
Milotic also doesn't have to rely on Wish + Protect for recovery, freeing up a moveslot for Toxic / Mirror Coat / Ice Beam, etc. Marvel Scale is cool when it comes in handy too. While I'm at it, Milotic is faster than Azumarill (burn Scald, damn you), Bisharp w/o much Spe investment, Tyranitar w/o much Spe investment. Anyway, I wouldn't mind if Milotic got ranked, I think it deserves it.
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Raikou outspeeds and kills, and a turn is wasted on set up. Raikou is still a counter.
EDIT @ below: cress is plenty slow for tr, and its bulk + lunar dance + magic coat make it a premier setter o_o
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Nomming Cresselia for C rank.
Seriously, what is this thing still doing in C+, it has been there forever and nobody gave a shit about it. While it is insanely bulky, it is outclassed by numerous less bulky defensive mons which may trade some of that bulk for at least a little offensive power. It has small niches as a screens or bulky trick room setter, although it doesn't do either very well. It is outclassed by Klefki as a screen setter and doesn't do very well in trick room because its speed isn't low enough. Its main niche used to be the fact that it was a surefire counter to Landorus, but now that Lando is gone, it should move down. I'm surprised it hasn't moved down sooner.
Seriously, what is this thing still doing in C+, it has been there forever and nobody gave a shit about it. While it is insanely bulky, it is outclassed by numerous less bulky defensive mons which may trade some of that bulk for at least a little offensive power. It has small niches as a screens or bulky trick room setter, although it doesn't do either very well. It is outclassed by Klefki as a screen setter and doesn't do very well in trick room because its speed isn't low enough. Its main niche used to be the fact that it was a surefire counter to Landorus, but now that Lando is gone, it should move down. I'm surprised it hasn't moved down sooner.
I saw a Milotic nom... oh boy...
Milotic is straight up ass. Firstly, the niche that was listed is flat out done better by Suicune, who also gets Mirror Coat and isn't reliant on being statused to be give the other bulky waters competition bulk-wise (and even then Milotic still really hates status nonetheless as it forces it to recover every few turns while being very reliant on its ability to have multiple free turns at its disposal). Its key niche would be haze, which is already done better by Quagsire as it shuts down setup 'mons before using haze - allowing it to come in easily - and Haze patches up its weakness to Mold Breaker setup 'mons like Excadrill and Haxorus. This means that it can only really set itself apart from the other bulky waters with Dragon Tail phazing... which can already be done better by everything from bulky Roar Keldeo to Roar Suicune to even Poliwrath and debatably Vaporeon (the latter of which is ass while Poliwrath only fits on very select teams). As a bulky Water-type, this thing is completely and utterly overshadowed by the other defensive Water-types. Seriously, if your key niches are either completely overshadowed by other 'mons (Mirror Coat, Haze, phazing) or are counteracted by the requirements being detrimental to the user (Marvel Scale in combination with a hatred of status) that is a pretty big sign.
Also I like the fact that you have neglected the reason it was ever even used in OU ever (i.e. its key niche): Competitive. IIRC, Milotic was ranked in mid XY due to its Competitive set, and that very quickly got unranked due to people realising that it was complete ass due to just how reliant it was on the boost and how disappointing its speed tier was for a primarily offensive 'mon (seriously, its SpA and Spe were at a point where it couldn't afford to run any bulk investment (i.e. it had to run max SpA/Spe to have any impact), making its otherwise good bulk pretty pointless). It had the key flaws of Bisharp without most of said Pokemon's redeming features (STAB 80 BP priority, STAB Knock Off ability to force 50:50s etc.) and this severely cripples its ability to function effectively.
In a nutshell, Milotic is pretty awful.
Milotic is straight up ass. Firstly, the niche that was listed is flat out done better by Suicune, who also gets Mirror Coat and isn't reliant on being statused to be give the other bulky waters competition bulk-wise (and even then Milotic still really hates status nonetheless as it forces it to recover every few turns while being very reliant on its ability to have multiple free turns at its disposal). Its key niche would be haze, which is already done better by Quagsire as it shuts down setup 'mons before using haze - allowing it to come in easily - and Haze patches up its weakness to Mold Breaker setup 'mons like Excadrill and Haxorus. This means that it can only really set itself apart from the other bulky waters with Dragon Tail phazing... which can already be done better by everything from bulky Roar Keldeo to Roar Suicune to even Poliwrath and debatably Vaporeon (the latter of which is ass while Poliwrath only fits on very select teams). As a bulky Water-type, this thing is completely and utterly overshadowed by the other defensive Water-types. Seriously, if your key niches are either completely overshadowed by other 'mons (Mirror Coat, Haze, phazing) or are counteracted by the requirements being detrimental to the user (Marvel Scale in combination with a hatred of status) that is a pretty big sign.
Also I like the fact that you have neglected the reason it was ever even used in OU ever (i.e. its key niche): Competitive. IIRC, Milotic was ranked in mid XY due to its Competitive set, and that very quickly got unranked due to people realising that it was complete ass due to just how reliant it was on the boost and how disappointing its speed tier was for a primarily offensive 'mon (seriously, its SpA and Spe were at a point where it couldn't afford to run any bulk investment (i.e. it had to run max SpA/Spe to have any impact), making its otherwise good bulk pretty pointless). It had the key flaws of Bisharp without most of said Pokemon's redeming features (STAB 80 BP priority, STAB Knock Off ability to force 50:50s etc.) and this severely cripples its ability to function effectively.
In a nutshell, Milotic is pretty awful.
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lol milotic is ass why are people nomming to C of all places.
That aside, Mega Pidgeot is really good imho, but I don't really think anything has changed for it. The stallbreaker set isn't as good since Hoopa's a thing and the pivot set is just as fine as it was last week, or the week before. It's more consistent with its attacks as Tornadus but the lack of an item really sucks. Roost is cool, but that's pretty much it.
Unless I'm just blind as shit or not paying attention to trends, it should stay where it is.
...This is coming from one of the biggest Mega Pidgeot fanboys, too.
That aside, Mega Pidgeot is really good imho, but I don't really think anything has changed for it. The stallbreaker set isn't as good since Hoopa's a thing and the pivot set is just as fine as it was last week, or the week before. It's more consistent with its attacks as Tornadus but the lack of an item really sucks. Roost is cool, but that's pretty much it.
Unless I'm just blind as shit or not paying attention to trends, it should stay where it is.
...This is coming from one of the biggest Mega Pidgeot fanboys, too.
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Thundurus-T: 218-260 (72.9 - 86.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Thundurus-T: 218-260 (66 - 78.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
(idk, you can also try 188 Spe EVs to outspeed Hoopa-U and OHKO after rocks)
Mainly to increase Thundy-T's survability against certain prio attacks and chip damage. Also note that if Thundy-T packs lefties, it will always avoid the 2HKO from Raikou's HP Ice. It only needs to use focus miss once, as it leaves Raikou into +2 thunderbolt's KO range. Maybe if it was able to outspeed offensive Chomp...
Nah... AV Raikou is actually supposed to check thundy, but needs rocks to do it reliably, as even 4HP variants can beat it at +2.
Cress has zero offensive presence and this hurts it as a TR setter. Compare it to Uxie for example which trades reliable recovery and Lunar Dance for U-turn (!), Stealth Rock, Yawn and Memento.
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Hello! I'm gonna Go ahead and Nom Mega Medicham for A- or A.
mega medicham is a great Pokemon and has a amazing 200 base attack. He has a move pool to take advantage of that as well. He gets fake out which does a lot of damage usually. There are ally of amazing ways to abuse fake out which I will show in some replays that I attach to this post. He also gets high jump kick which is one of the most fighting type moves ever. He gets power up punch which is good for getting a nice attack raise and killing of a injured Pokemon. He gets Zen headbutt and Psyco Cut for nice stab attacks. In this meta 100 base speed is actually pretty good for a wall breaker.
He doesn't need to much support to function as a wall breaker either.
Mega Medicham I tried to figure out a way to use him as a sweeper. I tried mega Medicham with sticky web supportand I thought it would suck but to my suprise it was actually pretty good. Mega champ apriciates someone removing phycic and ghost type. And pursuit trapper will usually do for this job.
Here are some a links! More are on the way
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-256338735
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-256362556
mega medicham is a great Pokemon and has a amazing 200 base attack. He has a move pool to take advantage of that as well. He gets fake out which does a lot of damage usually. There are ally of amazing ways to abuse fake out which I will show in some replays that I attach to this post. He also gets high jump kick which is one of the most fighting type moves ever. He gets power up punch which is good for getting a nice attack raise and killing of a injured Pokemon. He gets Zen headbutt and Psyco Cut for nice stab attacks. In this meta 100 base speed is actually pretty good for a wall breaker.
He doesn't need to much support to function as a wall breaker either.
Mega Medicham I tried to figure out a way to use him as a sweeper. I tried mega Medicham with sticky web supportand I thought it would suck but to my suprise it was actually pretty good. Mega champ apriciates someone removing phycic and ghost type. And pursuit trapper will usually do for this job.
Here are some a links! More are on the way
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-256338735
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-256362556
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Welcome to Smogon! I'm gonna go ahead and say something you might hear a lot: that's the room, you want the replay.
Also, a tip on nomming for things already on the list: usually you want to mention what's changed for the mon in question, rather than its traits. (We just finished a long discussion about this, so be sure to look back a couple of pages for more info.) Much of what you've mentioned--especially its HJK, the third-most-powerful attack in the entire tier--already factors into its high ranking, and generally speaking it's considered to be on par with Mega Gallade; it's held back by getting more or less walled by Mega Sableye and bulky Psychics such as Slowbro (an issue addressed by team support, but while Pokemon is a 6v6 game, that shouldn't be used as a copout either). What you'll want to address is if anything since the arrival of Hoopa has changed in Medicham's favor.
(Also, kudos to you for what I presume to be successful use of Webs. Not easy.)
Also, a tip on nomming for things already on the list: usually you want to mention what's changed for the mon in question, rather than its traits. (We just finished a long discussion about this, so be sure to look back a couple of pages for more info.) Much of what you've mentioned--especially its HJK, the third-most-powerful attack in the entire tier--already factors into its high ranking, and generally speaking it's considered to be on par with Mega Gallade; it's held back by getting more or less walled by Mega Sableye and bulky Psychics such as Slowbro (an issue addressed by team support, but while Pokemon is a 6v6 game, that shouldn't be used as a copout either). What you'll want to address is if anything since the arrival of Hoopa has changed in Medicham's favor.
(Also, kudos to you for what I presume to be successful use of Webs. Not easy.)
I think (or assume) lower rank subrank jumps shouldn'tbe and isnt much influenced by metagame changes as compared to in higher ranks, because if a metagame really changes in their favor, they would be making full rank leaps to A or something (like Weavile did). If anything, the last time Pidgeot ever placed in ita current rank was before Greninja was banned, so it indeed got better for it (Weavile is nowhere as common as Greninja used to be in comparison). I made a small subrank nomm not because anything changed significantly for it, but because I find it largely underestimated and it is always dismissed because Tornadus-T can do pivot better most of the time. But Pidgeot ain't no pivot. What it has over Tornadus-T is sustainability (without switching out), bolstered by roost and a higher confusion rate to its hurricane spam. (Pidgeot's hurricane confuses as often as scald burns for reference)
With reference to actual comparison to stuff in the ranks, when we compare B- attackers and C+ attackers, we realise that: B- attackers have the ability to be amazing with decent support; C+ attackers only become mediocre with decent support. Pidgeot certainly belong with the B- bunch, because it is amongst the most dangerous recipient of NP passing, and can fare well with simply hazard control, and always will get some work done, unlike C+ stuff, which are only situationally useful.
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Hello Ari The OU Master n_n
First of all, It wouldn't have 200 base attack, since Pure Power doubles the Attack stat counting the Evs, Nature and Ivs thus it would have FAR more than 200 Base attack
HJK is pretty unreliable for a STAB since you risk taking huge damage if your opponent switches into A Ghost or has Protect
Medi doesn't have room for PuP punch as it already has 4MSS
Stall is almost dead due to Hoopa-Unbound, So Offense is the dominating Playstyle
MegaMedi doesn't do too well against Offense though
You can only use Fake Out on the first turn, thus limiting it's use
There are no Viable Sticky Web users except Shuckle
Mega Medicham is not a sweeper, it's a wallbreaker
Plus, This logic could be applied to a lot of things
Also, not too much support?
You mentioned to use it with A Sticky Web user and A pursuit trapper
That's Half the team already decided
...Right...
I can say the same thing about Mega Ampharos, it has Agility, right? Oh, what about Mega Latios? He can put in work with CM? Yeah, everything can put in work, that's what team support exists for. Lets not forget my boy Mega Absol, oh hell yeah he can put in some serious work with a Swords Dance under his belt.
See something there? It's opinion. Not fact, and yes, opinions help an argument, but there's nothing to sustain that opinion. When you boil it down it's just opinion. I honestly prefer it when people provide replays for their noms as it adds substance, gives proof that you aren't theorymonning off your ass, and shows it in action. I'm not really caring much for if it stays or rises (as I have used this thing many times and can say it's decent) but that's a little something you should keep in mind.
Things don't drop or rise for no reason, btw, metagame has to shift away from them or for their favor.
Edit: Never said Tornadus-T was better than Mega Pidgeot, it's a better pivot though.
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I personally hate the argument that Torn-T is better than mega pidgeot; while they're similar on paper, they're realistically used for completely different reasons. Torn-T abuses Regenerator to give lots of pivoting opportunities, and focuses on dealing with specific threats and wallbreaking. Birb is used as a focal sweeper, since it can't be as aggressive as Torn-T and has more opportunity cost, but is more reliable and can boost its stats with Work Up to break through bulkier teams. Torn-T can't sweep since it can't break through bulkier builds and is less reliable, and Birb can't pivot or glue a team together since it can't survive the constant switches and can't hit hard enough right off the bat.
After saying that, I'll cast my vote for Mega Birb to B-, since the main reason it's been held back is the supposed inferiority to Torn-T, which I've already stated my opinion about.
After saying that, I'll cast my vote for Mega Birb to B-, since the main reason it's been held back is the supposed inferiority to Torn-T, which I've already stated my opinion about.
Raikou would still counter...if it automatically got +2 then it would just run an agility set and outclass it's incarnate form, lol. Example: thundy nps, raikou switches in. Next turn, raikou hp ices, thundy nps or fblasts. Next turn, raikou hp ices, thundy dies. While its a roll if no residual and leftovers, it's almost the same chance as hitting focus blast
HJK is sort of unreliable, but the power increase from stuff like Drain Punch is so good that HJK is really the only option. You just have to play around its big flaw, which is managable. Just wanted to point out that HJK is indeed what you should run.
On another note, why is Bronzong B-? What niche does it have which puts it that high up?
why dont you guys ignore the S <-> A rankings for a little ? they are really well setted. The B <-> D rankings are what need some attention. Here is my nomination:
Togekiss B+ -> A-
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-256302241
Togekiss is a incredibly good mon with great typing / bulky / ability / movepool that for some reason he is ignored a lot. he can tank zard-Y fire blast, tyranitar stone edge, tornadus hurricane, keldeo hydro pump, lati@s whatever move he/she uses, scizor bullet punch and cripple them with thunder wave, roost off the damage and kill with his dazzling gleam / air slash / aura sphere / flamethrower. I use this set:
Togekiss @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 208 SpA / 52 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dazzling Gleam
- Air Slash
- Roost
- Thunder Wave
and he can also be support with heal bell, wish, thunder wave set or a nasty plot + 3 attacks set
Togekiss B+ -> A-
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-256302241
Togekiss is a incredibly good mon with great typing / bulky / ability / movepool that for some reason he is ignored a lot. he can tank zard-Y fire blast, tyranitar stone edge, tornadus hurricane, keldeo hydro pump, lati@s whatever move he/she uses, scizor bullet punch and cripple them with thunder wave, roost off the damage and kill with his dazzling gleam / air slash / aura sphere / flamethrower. I use this set:
Togekiss @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 208 SpA / 52 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dazzling Gleam
- Air Slash
- Roost
- Thunder Wave
and he can also be support with heal bell, wish, thunder wave set or a nasty plot + 3 attacks set
I know that HJK is it's best fighting move
But He/She describes it as if it has no drawbacks at all
Pursuit trappers such as bisharp and weavile and even ttar are common anyway and having that it's actually not bad because it's not like bisharp and weavile and such are dead weight niether is Shuckle. I use it as my specially defensive wall.
After a sticky web is up mega champ can sweep.
Thanks for the note. How do I show replay?
CHECK OUT THE REPLAYS I POSTED IN MY FIRST POST ON PAGE 104
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Single Fire and Ground weaknesses unlike a lot of Steels in the tier, either of which can be immunized by ability, as well as a good defensive typing backed up by good stats, Stealth Rock access and some offensive presence. Oh, and it's pretty good for Trick Room.
A small nitpick with this set: Togekiss usually doesn't run Fairy STAB because simply running STABs leaves it walled by pretty much every Steel ever, and it has 4MSS from wanting Roost, Thunder Wave (base 80's kinda slow), Nasty Plot, Baton Pass, Air Slash, and some way to deal with Steels (usually Fire Blast or Aura Sphere). Togekiss is pretty awesome, especially with the ability to shut down Garchomp lacking Stone Edge (aka a lot of them), but unfortunately it hardly finds room to run DG, and it's a tad slow to be running a NP+3 or Roost+3 set.
Click "Share replay" after a battle ends. There will be a pop-up indicating the replay has been created and uploaded. C/P the link into the thread.
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