CAP 21 - Part 1 - Concept Submissions

[Trox]

Name: The Amazing Wonder Guard

General Description: A Pokemon with the ability Wonder Guard. Naturally, this ability alone is enough to define a Pokemon.

Justification: This Pokemon will certainly fill a niche in the metagame, through its unique ability that forces the metagame to adapt around it. Additionally, through the typing we choose, we’ll be able to determine how the new Pokemon will affect the metagame. Pokemon will rise and fall around it at our hands. We’ll be able to learn how important certain types are and how much one polarizing pokemon can change the metagame.

Questions To Be Answered:

Is one polarizing Pokemon enough to make Pokemon/movesets fall out of favor?

What does the metagame look like when certain types suddenly gain value and others lose value?

How can a Pokemon have such a polarizing ability while still being balanced? Is having 1 HP the only way to balance such an ability?

How much work can a Pokemon do with weakened stats and movepool, but a great ability?

Explanation: This Pokemon has a lot of potential on what it can do to the metagame and what it can do to itself. The only other Pokemon with Wonder Guard, Shedinja, was balanced through its measly 1 HP, it’s weakness to many forms of passive damage, and its weakness to a variety of super effective types. While I’m sure everyone’s first reaction to this would be to think that this could easily be overpowered, I think that there is actually a lot of potential. Despite Shedinja’s powerful ability it has failed to ever be a prominent force in any metagame. There’s a lot of space between a theoretical overpowered Pokemon with Wonder Guard and Shedinja and it’s very possible that this CAP could find the sweet spot in between. Carefully choosing a typing to target certain types will allow us to manipulate the metagame to our liking and observe the results. Another possibility that I considered is throwing Conversion into the mix. This would certainly make things more interesting. Although it may seem like this Pokemon could easily go awry, just remember that Shedinja has struggled all this time, and its currently not even close to being OU-level. There are a lot of tools we can use to balance this Pokemon and exploring these tools during the process will make a great learning experience.

Even tho Wonder Guard is usually one of the forbidden Abilitys for CAP, I think we should really give this a thought.
At this moment, we have 21 CAP, 3 of them already have a similar concept, with the "perfect mate" (Plasmanta also counts for me since it kind of ended that way). This however, is something very unique.
Apart from this rather uncompetitive reasoning, this really gives a great opportunity to learn something new about the metagame as typing, moveset and stats would be even more important to balance this excellent Ability out and prevent the CAP from being OP.

 

[escarlata]

Even tho Wonder Guard is usually one of the forbidden Abilitys for CAP, I think we should really give this a thought.
At this moment, we have 21 CAP, 3 of them already have a similar concept, with the "perfect mate" (Plasmanta also counts for me since it kind of ended that way). This however, is something very unique.
Apart from this rather uncompetitive reasoning, this really gives a great opportunity to learn something new about the metagame as typing, moveset and stats would be even more important to balance this excellent Ability out and prevent the CAP from being OP.

Whether or not it will be a terrible idea or not, rules on post #1 specifically specified that specific abilities are not allowed

 

[Delta Nite]

But why are move specific concepts allowed (Sketch Artist) while ability specific ones are not?

 

[ginganinja]

O.k, this is the real reason I have an issue with Wonder Guard.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/wonder-trio.3542184/#post-6294308

That right there, is a highly successful OU team thats exceptionally strong on the ladder right now. Replace Sheddy with "WonderCAP", and you pretty much break the entire metagame in half.

Just want to highlight the following quote:

Although it may seem like this Pokemon could easily go awry, just remember that Shedinja has struggled all this time, and its currently not even close to being OU-level.

That's since changed buddy. If you can claim that sheddy is shit now, even though there is a really strong OU team atm using it, then I really don't think we want to make something BETTER than Sheddy, if that team is already good lol.

 

[ZapDraws]

I think I' ready to dip my feet into the CAP forum. I'll take a swing at this.

Name: Stun-Gun

General Description: Stun-Gun gives Volt-Turn teams an interference weapon against HO teams, helping to maintain momentum even if the opponent gets their sweeper in play.

Justification: HO teams dominate the meta right now, which has led to difficulties for Volt-Turn teams, which require maintaining momentum to be effective. Once a sweeper is set up, however, it's usually game over for a dedicated Volt-Turn team. Stun-Gun would be a fast Pokemon with the ability to spread status, or just hit hard and flee, opening the door for its partners to finish the fight.

Questions To Be Answered:
-Would a reliable status user warp Volt-Turn strategies or provide minimal benefit?
-Could Stun-Gun be used as a trap, inviting a hit in order to inflict status via an ability? Would such a tactic be too unfair?
-How many HO standard Pokemon would such a strategy effectively counter?
-What typing would best fit a Pokemon like Stun-Gun?
-Are defensive teams, which often include clerics, bothered by a Pokemon like Stun-Gun at all? Would it be a hindrance against defensive teams?

Explanation: Making other strategies more viable leads to a more rich and diverse metagame. A fast, reliable status user could benefit Volt-Turn teams by giving them a counter to fast, high powered attackers. Status can cripple sweepers, disrupting an opponent's momentum and cement it for the Volt-Turn team. While defensive and stall teams often pack answers for status, Stun-Gun can still play the role of nuisance, working openings for its partners to hit those clerics drawn out by status afflictions. A Pokemon like Stun-Gun could reinvigorate a skill-based, challenging play style, perhaps, ultimately, helping to better balance the OU format.

 

[Zepkhan]

Name: Whack-A-Mole

General Description: A mon whose mere entrance annoys enemy teams.

Justification: A key switch can be the difference between winning and losing in many scenarios, Whack-A-Mole aims to use its entrance to throw opponents off their strategy.

Questions To Be Answered:
-How effective can entrance abilities be?
-Can they be effective enough to make a viable strategy?
-Will they alter the opponent's strategy just with the idea of them entering?
-Will this mon be part of a core?

Explanation: Often, switches can be difference-makers in battles. Some battles come down to whether to sweep or swerve, whack-a-mole aims to give a good option to send in and take the hit for the main attack mons. An example that already sees some use in OU is Rough skin/Iron Barbs + Helmet. But there are still quite a lot of entry strategies that are unused, the idea is to use one of those and create from that.

 

[Scipio323]

Reposting this concept now that Mega-CAP concepts are a go, with some slight modifications to better conform to Doug's guidelines.

Name:
The Patient Mega

General Description:
A pokemon that can Mega Evolve, but has strong reasons not to do so until the time is right.

Justification:
Even though Mega Evolution is an established part of the game by now, there is very little strategic decision-making regarding exactly when you activate your Mega, because the Mega version of your pokemon is more or less always far better in its intended role than the regular one. By virtue of a Mega's ability to change stats, ability, and even typing, this pokemon would be able to fulfill a different enough role that Mega Evolving it on the turn it comes out is not always the right choice, thus giving a new degree of depth and strategy to a once linear decision.

Questions To Be Answered:
-- How much change to a pokemon is enough to make the concept work without going overboard?
-- How much can Mega Evolution change a pokemon, without making it feel like a different pokemon entirely?
-- How well can a pokemon with significantly lower stats perform a task that one with higher stats cannot?
-- Is it inherently OP to be able to essentially pivot without losing a pokemon or wasting a turn to switch?
-- Would this pokemon be able to overcome Four Move Syndrome even if it needs to perform multiple roles with the same set?
-- How would one create an EV spread for a pokemon like this?
-- Would a pokemon created based on its Mega Evolution still be viable in its role if given another held item?
And perhaps most importantly:
-- Is the CAP team ready? (I guess the answer is yes now!)

Explanation:
For the longest time, I've been interested in seeing more versatility in the decision of whether or not to Mega Evolve. Obviously, there are certain situations currently where Mega Evolution is not the correct answer, mostly when a type change would make you weak to the current opponent, but I wanted to explore a pokemon that can still be effective enough before its Mega Evolution that staying un-Evolved until it fulfills its role is the expectation, not the exception.

One big reason why I think this would be an engaging project for the CAP team is that it can be accomplished in a great variety of ways. If it were to do this, It could outright raise or lower its stats (within reasonable margins, of course,) it could gain or lose a typing that's more favorable for offense than defense, or, most likely, would change its ability to surprise its opponent. This could be accomplished by changing itself in a relatively major way, but would run the risk of having a very high "Mega Delta" as Doug put it. If we were to go down this route, the most likely way I see this happening would be a defensive/supportive pokemon that protects its team until its threats are dealt with, at which point it Mega Evolves to sweep. Or, alternatively, we could go the opposite path, with an aggressive pokemon that quickly deals as much damage as it can out of the gate, only to Mega Evolve into a wall as soon as it's not safe anymore. It could even function by performing the same role in two different ways, like changing from a physical to a special wall. These are only a couple of ideas from one person, so I'm certain that the genius hive-mind behind the CAP project can come up with something better as well.

Just to clarify, none of the above is necessarily the only way to make the concept work, and would probably have too high a delta to fit Doug's standards. To reiterate, the core intent at the end of the day is just to create a pokemon for whom Mega Evolving is a tactical decision to be used at the right time, not as soon as possible, so anything that falls under that description would work, even (perhaps especially) if the changes to the pokemon are relatively slight. An example of this would be a pokemon with two powerful but situational abilities, a little like Sableye has with Prankster --> Magic Bounce. The trick to getting it to work, in this case, would be to (A) find two useful abilities that pair well with each other but have more value at different times, and (B) to balance the stats in such a way that maximizes the effectiveness of each ability without changing the pokemon too much.

So, I've definitely explained more than enough about this concept, but I think it's hard to deny that it would be more than just a unique project for us. I'm of the opinion that if we are to only do a single Mega CAP, it should be one that makes use the opportunity to explore the potential of the mechanic in depth, and I think that this concept would be a perfect way to do it. Obviously, this concept would have the potential to be very broad, but I'm sure it could be narrowed down to something fun and workable in the workshop phase.

 

[toenails_sauce]

I think I' ready to dip my feet into the CAP forum. I'll take a swing at this.

Name: Stun-Gun

General Description: Stun-Gun gives Volt-Turn teams an interference weapon against HO teams, helping to maintain momentum even if the opponent gets their sweeper in play.

Justification: HO teams dominate the meta right now, which has led to difficulties for Volt-Turn teams, which require maintaining momentum to be effective. Once a sweeper is set up, however, it's usually game over for a dedicated Volt-Turn team. Stun-Gun would be a fast Pokemon with the ability to spread status, or just hit hard and flee, opening the door for its partners to finish the fight.

Questions To Be Answered:
-Would a reliable status user warp Volt-Turn strategies or provide minimal benefit?
-Could Stun-Gun be used as a trap, inviting a hit in order to inflict status via an ability? Would such a tactic be too unfair?
-How many HO standard Pokemon would such a strategy effectively counter?
-What typing would best fit a Pokemon like Stun-Gun?
-Are defensive teams, which often include clerics, bothered by a Pokemon like Stun-Gun at all? Would it be a hindrance against defensive teams?
Explanation: Making other strategies more viable leads to a more rich and diverse metagame. A fast, reliable status user could benefit Volt-Turn teams by giving them a counter to fast, high powered attackers. Status can cripple sweepers, disrupting an opponent's momentum and cement it for the Volt-Turn team. While defensive and stall teams often pack answers for status, Stun-Gun can still play the role of nuisance, working openings for its partners to hit those clerics drawn out by status afflictions. A Pokemon like Stun-Gun could reinvigorate a skill-based, challenging play style, perhaps, ultimately, helping to better balance the OU format.

Hi, ZapDraws! This is an interesting concept. But to be honest, I'm skeptical about this concept due to the existence of Prankster Thundurus. Thundurus can cripple setup sweepers with Thunder Wave ("to spread status") and can learn Volt Switch (to "just hit hard and flee"). As it cripples a setup sweeper, it can let another teammate to finish the sweeper off; however, Thundurus usually has to sacrifice itself. Are you trying to make Stun-Gun able to cripple setup sweepers without sacrificing itself (that would be hard to do, since Stun-Gun would be an offensive Pokemon)? Would you have to give it Prankster, since it would have a small chance of outspeeding boosted sweepers otherwise? Also, if you named your CAP "Stun-Gun," are you implying that it would learn Thunder Wave? Anyway, as I'm saying, it's difficult to make this CAP, because it's too much like Thundurus.

Let me know if I misread your post, because this is my first time replying!

 

[ZapDraws]

Hi, ZapDraws! This is an interesting concept. But to be honest, I'm skeptical about this concept due to the existence of Prankster Thundurus. Thundurus can cripple setup sweepers with Thunder Wave ("to spread status") and can learn Volt Switch (to "just hit hard and flee"). As it cripples a setup sweeper, it can let another teammate to finish the sweeper off; however, Thundurus usually has to sacrifice itself. Are you trying to make Stun-Gun able to cripple setup sweepers without sacrificing itself (that would be hard to do, since Stun-Gun would be an offensive Pokemon)? Would you have to give it Prankster, since it would have a small chance of outspeeding boosted sweepers otherwise? Also, if you named your CAP "Stun-Gun," are you implying that it would learn Thunder Wave? Anyway, as I'm saying, it's difficult to make this CAP, because it's too much like Thundurus.

Let me know if I misread your post, because this is my first time replying!

I'm not supposed to discuss specific moves and abilities, but there's a few ideas. Maybe it has Prankster. Maybe it carries a Focus Sash and has Static. Maybe it even has Effect Spore, and makes a trap switch in in order to inflict some sort of status. The overall idea is that it can move in and out and nail a few opponents with status effects.

 

[toenails_sauce]

I'm not supposed to discuss specific moves and abilities, but there's a few ideas. Maybe it has Prankster. Maybe it carries a Focus Sash and has Static. Maybe it even has Effect Spore, and makes a trap switch in in order to inflict some sort of status. The overall idea is that it can move in and out and nail a few opponents with status effects.

Aren't you saying that Stun-Gun is supposed to cause trouble to HO teams via status AND maintain offensive momentum for your team? Well unfortunately, one purpose of CAP is to introduce a new niche to the metagame. Your Stun-Gun, on the other hand, has a niche that already exists. It is not unique enough because of, again, Thundurus. Thundurus can cripple boosted sweepers with Thunder Wave and retain offensive momentum by sacrificing itself. Sorry, moderators might not accept your concept because of this. But good try.

 

[NumberCruncher]

Since Mega Evolutions are allowed now, I guess I can put up a neat idea that's been rolling around in the back of my head for a while.

Name - The Charizard Gambit

Description - A pokemon with two Mega Evolutions that, while neither is good enough to check the top threats of the metagame, can cumulatively check and decentralize OU.

Justification- In recent OU history, we've seen the banning of Landorus-I and playtests reaffirming that Aegislash and Giratina-O are completely unhealthy for the metagame. The issue with threats that can decentralize the metagame is that they themselves can centralize the metagame. If one threat can answer all of the top threats, then that pokemon becomes the top threat. The same issue comes in the form of cores. If a core is good enough to check a metagame, the metagame becomes centralized around that core (we saw this with Lando-T and Rotom-W, which nearly got an entire CAP dedicated to shattering that core).

In this respect, Mega evolution gives us a great out to avoid both the centralizing threat problem and the core problem. Having multiple forms of the same pokemon gives us enough room to make distinctly fair pokemon while also being able to check all the threats we want to check. The species clause naturally prevents two of the same Pokemon from being played on the same team, thus locking out cores from developing.

Questions To Be Answered

• Can we achieve a healthy decentralization of the metagame with as few as two MEs? Should the base form also be viable so that we have more forms putting in work to decentralize the metagame?
• Can two MEs that each can't decentralize the metagame decentralize the metagame when put together?
• Can we design two MEs that cumulatively decentralize the metagame even though we don't get to play them on the same teams?
• The two most common team archetypes are offense teams and balance teams. How would this Pokemon's MEs need to interact with these archetypes to effect change in the format?
• What team archetypes would the CAPs Mega Evolutions have to fit into to shift the format in a healthy way?

Explanation - As mentioned before, a single Pokemon can't decentralize a metagame because that Pokemon would itself be centralizing.
However, we also know from the shift from Gen 4 to Gen 5 that generational shift can happen even the absence of sweeping mechanical changes simply based on the quality of Pokemon added. The basic premise of this project is to see if the metagame can be shifted in a healthy way with as few as two Mega evolutions and a base form now that we know it can't be done with as few as one Pokemon.

There are some concerns that a Pokemon like this would be too unpredictable, but we can easily build the Pokemon so it's not so unpredictable. Nobody looks at a team with a Charizard, Venusaur, and Heatran on it and assumes the Charizard is X. Nobody looks at a team with Charizard, Azumarill, and Ferrothorn and assumes Charizard is Y. As long as each form serves a different function on different teams, it should be fine.

 

[toenails_sauce]

Name: Low Stats, High Threatening Presence

General Description: This CAP's stellar ability, typing, and movepool more than compensate for its humble stats, potentially making it a offensive/defensive threat in the metagame.

Justification:
This CAP's stats are mediocre all around; this would always be its main drawback. Therefore, this CAP would have to solely rely on its other aspects (abilities, typing, movepool, etc.), in order to be either an offensive or defensive threat in the metagame. This concept is an opportunity for us to learn whether its possible or not that a Pokemon can have a threatening presence in the metagame, even with lackluster base stats.

Questions To Be Answered:
- Having low base stats, would this CAP be better suited for an offensive or defensive role?
- Overall, what aspect would be the best in compensating for this CAP's crappy base stats (abilities, movepool, typing, etc.)?
- Statistically, how low is "mediocre?" If this CAP is offensive, what would the borders of mediocrity be for its offensive stats (the same goes for defensive, except defensive stats)?
- This may be a wee bit early, but what abilities, typing, and movepool can this CAP use when taking an offensive role? A defensive role?

Explanation:
I spend the next three paragraphs explaining why this CAP isn't like other already existing Pokemon so be prepared -_-

Ok, I know what you're thinking: Clefable. Clefable has only decent stats but has great typing, movepool, and abilities. So Clefable is just like this CAP! Or is it? When you look at its stats, they are not very mediocre. In fact, it has respectable 95/73/90 bulk and good base 95 Special Attack for a defensive Pokemon. So, while Clefable's stats are not the best, I wouldn't call them mediocre, either.

Oh I see, it's Klefki now. It's fantastic ability Prankster nullifies its lackluster base 75 Speed. Its typing makes up well for its poor bulk, considering its miserable base 50 HP. Klefki has great support moves to complement Prankster, like Thunder Wave, Dual Screens, Taunt, and Spikes. While all these attributes make Klefki a great support Pokemon, it is not really a threat. Offensively, the fact that no abilities boosting its meager base 80 Attack gives it no chance. Defensively, it has a nice Fairy/Steel typing, but without a reliable recovery move, it is relatively easily to wear down. So Klefki isn't really the "Low-Stats-But-High-Threatening-Presence" Pokemon after all.

Diggersby, with its low 85/56/77/50/77/78 stats, especially an initially terrible base 56 Attack, may also look like this CAP, but Diggersby technically has base 160 Attack due to its Huge Power (this can be debatable, though). In the end, Diggersby doesn't have mediocre stats all-around. Besides, I don't want this CAP to be known as a threat because of only its abilities themselves, but also its other aspects put together as a whole.

Hopefully, this concept will be interesting and though-provoking enough to facilitate discussion. This concept can "open our minds" and remind us that base stats do not always matter when it comes to a Pokemon's viability. I think this CAP will bring something new to the table, as it can show us the true potential of the combination of ability, movepool, and typing.


Thank you for reading my concept! There are definitely errors in my post, but I really appreciate you tolerating them, and have a nice day!

;)

///toenails_sauce

 

[ginganinja]

toenails_sauce

Pretty sure your concept was submitted by someone else and already approved.

RE Stun Gun

Justification: HO teams dominate the meta right now, which has led to difficulties for Volt-Turn teams, which require maintaining momentum to be effective. Once a sweeper is set up, however, it's usually game over for a dedicated Volt-Turn team. Stun-Gun would be a fast Pokemon with the ability to spread status, or just hit hard and flee, opening the door for its partners to finish the fight.

Yeah see, the issue Volt-Turn teams have is prolly Garchomp above anything else (if I had to single out one pokemon), and if you want to spam Thunder Wave 24/7, then Garchomps just going to laugh at you. Furthermore, I'm not even sure that Stun Gun really wants to be on a Volt Turn team, it ironically might see more use on pure offensive team that uses its status as an emergency stop. You can see this by high usage of Thundurus-I, which acts as an emergency check to sweepers with Priority Thunder Wave. For this concept to really be successful, you are really looking at Prankster with something like Glare/Thunder Wave /Spore, and I don't think we actually learn from this, when we have existing CAPs or pokemon in OU that can do this sort of thing on its own. I think the reasoning behind this concept (ie only Volt Turn would appreciate this), is slightly flawed, and as a result, I'm not entirely sure the concept itself would lend itself to a solid direction, since its based off information that is misleading / not entirely true. I also don't really think we can learn anything from this, but idk, nyttyn might disagree with me.

Name: Whack-A-Mole

General Description: A mon whose mere entrance annoys enemy teams.

This concept already exists and is approved.

Description - A pokemon with two Mega Evolutions that, while neither is good enough to check the top threats of the metagame, can cumulatively check and decentralize OU.

Decent idea, but I'm skeptical if CAP can handle one Mega Evo let alone two. I'd prefer to wait and see how this latest concept turns out, before going anywhere near a second Mega Evo.

 

[toenails_sauce]

toenails_sauce

Pretty sure your concept was submitted by someone else and already approved.

Hold on, do you mean the Mediocre Mon? Shouldn't the Mediocre Mon be the one lacking in everything, while mine is supposed to lack in only base stats? To be honest, isn't my CAP in only one way similar to the Mediocre Mon (which is, mediocre base stats)?

 

[Phione]

Honestly, the concept you're referring to already exists. It's called Breloom, who's only good stat at all is Attack. Also, Clefable base stat wise has very mediocre bulk. Sure, it is passable, but certainly not good. And 95 SpA is pathetic unboosted with all this power creep.

 

[ginganinja]

What Phione said pretty much.

 

[nyttyn]

Hi don't say "moderators might not accept" or otherwise presume to speak for the workshop team please and thank you~
Not so fast Priority on fatmons already handles speed creep.

Amazing Wonder Guarder no.

Wallbreaker Wall Seems fine to me, and with Hoopa-Unbound's reelase this is kind of a hot topic. +1

Stun-Gun

I think there's some promise in this concept, but I think it would likely make more sense to change directions to be a tool to aid volturn teams in a meta where garchomp exists. Change it a bit and I'd be willing to open up a review thread for it. As it stands, Prankster Spore/Glare is what this would be and it'd just wind up being used on the same kinds of teams that Thundurus already finds itself used on.

Whack-A-Mole A Pokemon who exist 'just to be annoying' doesn't really feel like nearly enough of a actual, solid basis for a CAP, and that being said, there's already a cocnept approved that's this but better.

The Paitent Mega I'll probably +1 something like this in the future, but I don't feel like now's a good time. The process is still untested and something like this isn't very forgiving on failures in direction.

The Charizard Gambit At the moment, Mega CAP is barely even a thing. As such, I do not think it is wise to entertain dual-mega CAPs at this point in time.

Low Stats Clefable basically epitomizes this, and honestly I'm extremely wary of this in ORAS's power creeped meta. 'limiting' concepts like this one aren't exactly a great idea right now.

 

[Scipio323]

I'd just like to know, why do you feel that my concept (The Patient Mega) would be any less forgiving than other Mega projects? The way I see it in my head, all you would need is two forms with slightly different playstyles that are both relatively similar in terms of overall power, and as long as we decide beforehand the approach we would take, there are a plethora of very simple ways that you could achieve this. For example, if you had the right stat line, a mon with something like Regenerator --> Speed Boost would satisfy it beautifully, even without any stat changes, just because of how different the playstyles would be before and after.

Also, sorry if I'm being defensive, but if not now, then when? I don't know about you, but I feel like CAP 21 is going to be our only Mega CAP for a very long time, and since the purpose of the CAP Project is to explore the metagame, I can't think of a concept that better explores the Mega Evolution mechanic better than this one.

 

[tehy]

I'd just like to know, why do you feel that my concept would be any less forgiving than other Mega projects? The way I see it in my head, all you would need is two forms with slightly different playstyles that are both relatively similar in terms of overall power, and as long as we decide beforehand the approach we would take, there are a plethora of very simple ways that you could achieve this. For example, if you had the right stat line, a mon with something like Regenerator --> Speed Boost would satisfy it beautifully, even without any stat changes, just because of how different the playstyles would be before and after.

Also, sorry if I'm being defensive, but if not now, then when? I don't know about you, but I feel like CAP 21 is going to be our only Mega CAP for a very long time, and since the purpose of the CAP Project is to explore the metagame, I can't think of a concept that better explores the Mega Evolution mechanic better than this one.

I mean, two megas is difficult as hell to pull off is why. it'd be nice to have experience in making one mega before doing something this insane.

your concept also seems difficult enough even without a mega having never been done, which certainly doesn't help

 

[Scipio323]

I mean, two megas is difficult as hell to pull off is why.

Sorry, I should have clarified, my concept was The Patient Mega, not The Charizard Gambit. I agree, creating a pokemon with two different Mega forms is definitely not the place to start with our first mega project, but I think my concept is much more manageable.

 

[TotalAsteroid]

Yeah, The Charizard Gambit is a good concept, but this is not a good time to do that since we haven't even done one mega CAP.

 

[nyttyn]

Scipio323 It's because we'd basically need to formulate a pokemon that can be viable with no item, and be viable with +100 BST/changed stats after, AND give it a good reason to pass up on 100 bonus stats from the word go, AND make sure it's still viable without those 100 bonus stats, AND still make it worthwhile to actually slap on a megastone instead of some other item.

It's just too many variables to be comfortable with a untested process.

 

[Mulan15262]

Scipio323 It's because we'd basically need to formulate a pokemon that can be viable with no item, and be viable with +100 BST/changed stats after, AND give it a good reason to pass up on 100 bonus stats from the word go, AND make sure it's still viable without those 100 bonus stats, AND still make it worthwhile to actually slap on a megastone instead of some other item.

It's just too many variables to be comfortable with a untested process.

You could give it a bulkier stat spread and defensive abilities to start, and then mega evolution gives it an offensive ability and dump the 100 stat points into Attack and Speed or Special Attack and Speed.

Alternatively, it could be a sweeper that changes its type once it mega-evolves, so that you try to defeat its counters before mega-evolving with the base form, then you mega-evolve and sweep the opponent.

 

[nyttyn]

You could give it a bulkier stat spread and defensive abilities to start, and then mega evolution gives it an offensive ability and dump the 100 stat points into Attack and Speed or Special Attack and Speed.

Alternatively, it could be a sweeper that changes its type once it mega-evolves, so that you try to defeat its counters before mega-evolving with the base form, then you mega-evolve and sweep the opponent.

Theory does not hold up to practice, Mulan. You might have a singular vision for the entiety of a extended CAP that has two different sides, but the CAP userbase as a whole certainly does not, and all it would take would be one vote swinging in favor of a side different from the direction the CAP was already going down to send he entire concept to hell. Normally, the process can recover, but in something as declicate a balancing act as Paitent Mega, even a single messup will botch the entire thing since every aspect has to be perfect or close to it.

 

[Yveltal]

You could give it a bulkier stat spread and defensive abilities to start, and then mega evolution gives it an offensive ability and dump the 100 stat points into Attack and Speed or Special Attack and Speed.

Alternatively, it could be a sweeper that changes its type once it mega-evolves, so that you try to defeat its counters before mega-evolving with the base form, then you mega-evolve and sweep the opponent.

I thought about this as well when I read his post. The problem is, you can't really give it a moveset conducive to two different playstyles, unless you're basically turning its mega into the equivalent of the CAP itself, but with a Choice item. What I mean, is, three stall moves to keep itself alive and one offensive move that works best when it MEvoes. At that point, what was the point behind giving it a mega when you could just Choice Specs it?

This is the kind of stuff that would be a concern about viability.