Resource ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V3 - Read Post 3451 Page 139

[sugarhigh]

Mega Altaria S -> A+ agree
It's been a long time coming for altaria to drop imo. With the current meta switching toward a more offensive metagame it seems to me altaria has a lot harder time setting up and being able to steamroll through teams like it used to. Furthermore I feel that other megas have alot less oppurtunity cost compared to altaria as the mega for a team as Altaria will always need team support for it to be a threat. Furthermore Mega altaria for the most part is one dimensional and the defensive set isn't as strong due to the shift to offense ala weavile. It almost always needs a jolly nature to be able to get the ball going. Finally the original "hype" for altaria seems to have died down. For all these reasons I personally believe mega altaria should be dropped to a+.

Mega Gyarados A+ -> A disagree
I mainly disagree with mega gyarados dropping mainly because its such a flexible mega pokemon in terms of a win condition. It has insane amount of coverage and team support can be made to cover each weakness of each lack of coverage option. People tend to say if a pokemon has alot of coverage options its 4mss and cant handle everything but i believe it to make it more unpredictible with this coverage (crunch waterfall icefang irontail earthquake bounce etc). Furthermore it has insane amount of utility options in the current meta such as taunt and resttalk which both break stall teams and make those annoying shedstall teams less of a nuisance. Finally the ability moldbreaker is perfect for this pokemon able to breaking balance due tot he ability its power and coverage. Furthermore its preevo to post megaevo makes it very unpredictable in terms of resistances throughout the matches leading to very interesting 5050 situations for the opponent and lots of mind games. Overall i believe it shudnt drop due to these reasons, coverage utility and flexibility as a win con and mega make it a very strong candidate of A+

Weavile A-> A+ agree
This probably shouldve been A+ ages ago but thats just my opinion lol. Weavile imo is the posterchild in the clear shift toward a more fast paced offensive metagame that oras is currently experiencing. Its 125 base speed makes it in a great speed tier outspeeding a majority of the metagame and access to priority in the form of ice shard also helps. The ability to just knock off for a majority of the time free due to forcing out pokemon due to its great offensive typing also makes it a top tier threat. Changing 3hkos to 2hkos for alot of pokemon such as clefable. Furthermore having access to the move icicle crash also makes it annoying due to its ability to flinch and the overall power it can inflict with its great offensive typing. Finally its last move can be any move (pursuit poison jab lowkick aerial ace etc) this just adds another layer of unpredictable nature to the pokemon on which coverage option the weavile is using. All in all its speed access to priority and the broken move knock off, great typing, and overall power make it a strong candidate for A+

Thanks to those reading this first time posting anything of value in this thread hope to post my arguments for other pokemon later on ^-^

 

[urban]

Been a while since I've posted here, but I figured I'd give my thoughts on some of the mons that I've used a lot.

Heatran A+ -> A
I think moving Heatran to A is underselling its usefulness quite a bit. Yes, it is rather slow in this meta, but its typing is incredibly useful at checking a variety of threats including CharX, Talon, Scizor, Clefable, etc. This makes it a very splashable mon on several team archetypes, and Tran has the movepool to act effectively across these archetypes. In other words, Tran is incredibly adaptable to team needs, resulting in tons of effective sets supported by a strong offensive movepool (Strong STABs, EPower, Stone Edge, Sbeam) and an even stronger support movepool (SR, Taunt, WoW, Roar, Toxic). All in all, this makes Tran a fairly difficult pokemon to switch into in general because its difficult to predict what moves it may be running. Now, Tran does have its problems as the meta speeds up, but Scarf sets can remedy this somewhat and even still slower Trans can come in on at least one or two mons against virtually every team. Lack of recovery outside of leftovers and susceptibility to hazards sucks, but immunity to damage causing status effects kinda even this out. Keep Tran A+ imo.
Weavile A -> A+
Weavile is quite strong in this meta, but there are too many things that work against it for me to see it as an A+ threat. First off, there are quite a few mons that can switch into its STABs, and though some of these can be worn down over time, others are really solid checks through and through (think Keldeo and Scizor). In turn, most teams will pack at least one or two checks, and some of these use Weavile as set up fodder. Second, though its speed makes it a potent threat against a number of teams, it gets worn down over time between LO recoil and SR weakness, and its general frailty means it goes down to most neutral hits, plus priority becomes a huge threat if Weav is weakened even a small amount. Finally, its power leaves a bit to be desired, meaning several mons (even offensive ones) can take a hit and then KO in return. Keep it A imo.
Starmie A -> A-
This is just hard to support if only for the fact that its the most splashable spinner in the whole tier. The defensive spinner set has all it needs to be effective (scald, rs, recover), though it is pained by having to choose that 4th moveslot, as it can leave mie very susceptible to certain threats. The offensive set is kind of meh as a spinner because its weak to hazards and has very little longevity, but a full offensive set can actually prove pretty threatening between mie's amazing movepool, speed tier, and analytic. Keep in A.

 

[micahclay]

Mega Gyarados, A+ -> A
Disagree, it has a great typing, both defensively (as normal Gyara) and offensively (as Mega Gyara does), and once it has set up (which it can do easily, by virtue of its previously mentioned typing/abilities).

Heatran A+ -> A
Disagree, it is one of the most versatile and overall great pokemon in the tier. It is the best fairy check/flying check in the tier (because of a great typing) and with the plethora of fairy and flying spam, it's great. It finds tons of opportunities to set up rocks, and it walls approximately a metric butt-ton of pokemon.

Weavile A -> A+
Agree, Weavile is incredible. It's absurdly fast, it's a great pursuit trapper, and it has a very solid offensive typing. It even has priority to beat the few things that are faster.

Smeargle D -> Unranked
Agree, it's garbage without BP. The only role it can serve is a suicide lead, and there are approximately 719 other pokemon that serve this role better.

 

[Srn]

Mega Altaria S -> A+

Hide

Eh i think that it should stay where it is, every team needs a dedicated check to it and most of them can't switch in with 100% safety.
That said I'm pretty neutral overall on altaria, i wouldn't mind if it drops either.

Mega Gyarados A+ -> A

Hide

I can understand why people would want to drop it because it has a lot of checks on paper like ferro, keld, and clefable, all of which are really common, but its strength lies not in its raw sweeping potential. Its very bulky and has the flexibility to check tons of shit in both forms, and a variety of potential coverage moves like eq, ice fang, and iron tail, along with sub or taunt, is enough to pressure most of its checks, and ferro needs power whip to check gyara in the first place. Keldeo is easily weakened when paired with some easy partner like bisharp, and talonflame sets up on or revenge kills everything stopping mega gyarados. That's another strength: it pairs well with tons of other shit.
It's just a lot better in practice than on paper I find.

Heatran A+ -> A

Hide

definitely not.
With a combination of power herb+solar beam, hp ice, flame charge, magma storm+taunt, nothing is really safe. Ofc you can't fit all of that in one place, and a lot of the things people like to think heatran checks (thundurus, zam, char-y, garde) doesnt' actually work out cuz of focus blast, but its way too versatile and way too good of a lure to way too many mons to drop. There's just so many pokemon that appreciate the heatran getting rid of bulky chomp and rotom-w and the works. It should stay where it is.

Mega Alakazam A -> A+

Hide

It's strong against every playstyle and all that but the fact that this thing can't take any hit and dies to basically everything faster I think keeps this down to A.
It has some decent checks too, like av meta, bulky zor, and rachi.

Weavile A -> A+

Hide

It dies too quickly and doesn't take hits. There are some common decent checks as well, like keldeo, azu, clefable, gyarados, scizor, etc.

Starmie A -> A-

Hide

I would think that since hazards are so popular a spinner would be in more demand (especially since 90% of rockers set it back up on exca anyways) but i dont know much about starmie/use it much so i'm fine wherever it goes.

Smeargle D -> Unranked

Hide

rip bp=rip smeargle

 

[Clair]

S -> A+ Agree
I think I can get behind this. Special support Malt is really lacking in the more offensively-geared meta, and 3-attacks DD Malt, while obviously still having a niche, is broadly inferior to Zard-X. Without investment its bulk and typing combination isn't useful, and it just struggles so much more with breaking through the multiple checks balanced teams tend to have to it. It's also harder to provide team support for. Where a Zard-X team can just do Specs Raikou, Toxic Garchomp, etc, there are so many bulky things that can take a hit from Malt that it's team can't be as focused.

Obviously, the relevant set is bulky DD + Heal Bell on balances or bulky offense. It's greatest asset is defensive/support role compression plus being an incredibly reliable win condition once its checks are removed, but I don't see that putting it above anything in A+ to be honest. Hoopa's introduction, largely replacing the Zard-Y archetype that Malt excelled at beating, along with the related rise in Azumarill usage (and corresponding decline in Keldeo), are all factors contributing to Malt's decline.

Also there's a significant opportunity cost because if you use M-Altaria you can't use regular Altaria, am I right?

A+ -> A Agree
Should have happened a while ago. Rising Azumarill usage vs Keldeo is a problem for it, because offense teams are less likely to just throw on Lati and Azu themselves as their 'water checks'. Ferrothorn and M-Scizor are still everywhere as well, and of course, RockyChomp and Zard-X's pre-eminence does Gyara no favours. I have played around recently with defensive M-Gyarados, which makes a decent check to both Hoopa and Zard-X, but considering how many effective MEvolutions there are right now, this new niche doesn't add much to its viability.

A+ -> A Disagree
I can't see this. Magma Storm sets seem to be having a resurgence right now, which is just super dangerous. ScarfTran is more useful now as well. I guess the offensive meta puts less of a premium on Tran's effectiveness against CM Fable, Will-o-wisp based stallbreakers (utility M-Sab, Mew, Talon), but SDef still compresses a huge number of extremely necessary teambuilding roles. It even checks the majority of Zard-X, and it can kinda check Hoopa on balance. Heatran has definitely lost effectiveness, but it's still better than almost everything in A.

A -> A+ Disagree
I haven't used M-Zam myself recently, but I've played against it with a few different teams and I'm not really convinced. The meta is more offensive, yeah, which seems to favour Zam, but it's also a lot more priority-heavy. Hoopa can take a hit and OHKO back, and many of the Hoopa checks used on bulkier teams do alright against Zam as well.

A -> A+ Agree
Yeah this is inarguable. Can't switch in etc but the amount of utility and offensive pressure it applies is top-tier. Again, lower Keldeo usage and the reliance on RockyChomp / Hippo to beat physical attackers helps Weav out a lot. Klefki and M-Zor seeing some usage which annoys it, but isn't enough to affect its place in the meta.

A -> A- Disagree
I'm leaning against a move down, here. LO Starmie is still dangerous; in particular, its STAB Psyshock gives it a niche over other offensive Water types. Being able to threaten RockyChomp with an OHKO, spin pretty reliably, and apply offensive pressure is still significant, even if Pursuit is everywhere and Azu > Keld trend hurts it.
The set I like most in this meta is actually Scald / Reflect / Rapid Spin / Recover, which you might have seen me using recently on ladder. Reflect is just much better than Reflect Type for any purpose other than beating Ferro; it provides team support and helps against ScarfTar and Weav.
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 16 Def Starmie through Reflect: 247-292 (76.4 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[quagback2qc]

Mega Altaria is still a really good pokemon. There's no other mon with such a blend of power, bulk, typing and unpredictability. It's however severely let down by its speed and most importantly its inability to run more than 4 moves. 4MSS is a massive problem because Mega Altaria would really want to run DD / Roost / Return / Heal Bell / EQ / Fire Blast and maybe even Substitute or Cotton Guard. The move choice is heavily team dependent and it's with proper support that Mega Altaria really shines, but generally S-ranked mons are more splashable or less reliant on support. The first sentence in Mega Altaria's analysis is "Mega Altaria is an impressive anti-metagame threat", but right now the metagame seems quite prepared for Mega Altaria with lots of Hippowdon, Clefable, Scizor, Lando-T and Heatran (just the checks in the top 10 of WCoP usage). All of those can be considered checks to certain Mega Altaria sets and it's not uncommon to see multiple of those on 1 team, essentially containing Mega Altaria.

I'd rather rank Latios / Manaphy / Garchomp in S-rank as those have a bigger impact on the metagame right now imo.

This was a great post by ZoroDark about dropping M-Alt a while ago, but I think it was ignored because everyone was really fed up with all of the S and A+ noms at the time. I fully support M-Alt moving down because of how naturally easy it is to check. Almost every well-made team has something that reliably checks it and it requires more support than all of the other S rank threats to do its job.

 

[ShadowMarioGalaxy64]

I'll comment on what I know best.

Heatran plays too many roles and fits in too many cores. Need a pseudo-trapper? A Stealth Rock setter? Subdisrupt (I call it Roar)? Taunt? TormenTran? Choice Specs? Fit this with your bulky Water-Type like Slowbro (whom resist Fighting) or Rotom-W (immune to Ground). Despite being weak to Water, it's very splashable. Heatran has the perfection of unpredictability. Need a surprise against opposing Heatran? Earth Power. So many good options on it that it would be a crime to drop it below A+.

Smeargle drop? Eh. I wouldn't mind seeing it go. I will surely miss my gimmick set: Spore, Block, Imprison, Transform. Oh well. It's a gimmick for a reason. Good-bye, Smeargle.

Starmie is a weird one. Rapid Spin is in high demand because hazards are still the game. It really only faces competition as a spinner from Excadrill while other spinners like Hitmontop, Sandslash, and Tentacruel remain in lower tiers. As I've said before, I'm Anti-Defog. I vastly prefer Rapid Spin if I can help it, as it keeps your hazards up. Starmie also has a semi element of surprise, with access to decent offense, support moves, and even...Recover? Okay, que the song and dance! Keep it the way it is.

I like Weavile. I really do. Weavile is just...it has checks like any Pokemon, particularly Azumarill. Even the rare Physically bulky Crawdaunt can look at this thing and laugh (unless Brick Break or Low Sweep is involved). On the other hand, this gets around TankChomp too easily, as well as Hippowdon, so...keep it as is.

If anybody knows anything about me, I'm very against Mega Alakazam. I've said this before and I'll say it again: I'll always prefer Life Orb Alakazam over this as, to me, it boasts more power (which is what Alakazam should be doing) and has Magic Guard, preventing Status from breaking it down (bar Paralysis) and Life Orb Recoil. The only way Alakazam could get funnier is if the Gods of GameFreak ever gave it Sheer Force. Wow...off topic...so, anyways. Mega Alakazam doesn't sell much to me. Priority is huge in this meta, from Azumarill, Scizor, Weavile, Crawdaunt, Lucario, Dragonite, anything with Prankster, Breloom, Conkeldurr, Bisharp, etc. It also doesn't seem to have much of a hold in the meta to begin with. I've yet to see anybody use this well, either (which is very sad, too). Keep it as it is or drop it one slate--doesn't matter to me.

That's all I can comment on. Gyarados isn't my territory because I thought of it as a near useless mega. Altaria isn't my stronghold because I despise it and always did since Emerald.

 

[dice]

i think weavile is a+ worthy just b.c. it has no real hard counters and is quite splashable on offense/balance. the thund check / dragon check / ghost resist is huge too. azumarill has to be wary of poison jab, it can decimate slower teams with swords dance, etc. scizor is the only real gay dude for it, but common partners like tank chomp can weaken it quite easily.

starmie is super bad lol. tyranitar / weavile are so popular and the bulky spin set blows 99.999999999999% of the time and so unreliable due to the prevalence of dudes that it's bait for. having to rely on a scald burn vs chomp / losing hard to both zards and altaria / clefable bait etc.............. not a fan. i'd be down for a drop. oh and offensive sets are far from splashable and have many of the same problems...

edit: i disagree with blissey being moved down. it has a legitimate niche in using calm mind on stall to beat manaphy which is a huge thorn in stall's side and quite a cool tech to work with. (cm/tbolt/ib/sb) this is way better than many of the obscure ways ppl try to beat manaphy w.

 

[Valmanway]

Unrank Smeargle, Unrank Smeargle, UNRANK SMEARGLE!

I could say this thousands of times and I would still feel the need to say this, though I'll make an actual argument just so this isn't a mindless one-liner nomination. First off, its stats are nonexistent, with its best stat being a mediocre-at-best base 75 Speed, leaving it outsped by many other leads, is forced to run a Focus Sash to take anything, and is complete Taunt bait unless you run a Mental Herb. Which brings me to my second point, that being Smeargle is incapable of covering both its frailty and Taunt weakness at the same time, as running Focus Sash means you can be easily forced out by Taunt users, while running Mental Herb means a strong hit can be the end for Smeargle. Finally... GeoPass is dead, dude. GeoPass was literally the only thing keeping Smeargle relevant, as the lead set is complete ass with way too many flaws to make it worth using over other hazard setters, but the "no Speed + other stat passes" clause really took away its only niche in the metagame. I'm extremely tired right now, so I can't go all-out with this nomination, but I can explain this in greater detail later on if needed.

tl;dr Please, just end this thing's misery and unrank it already. Please.

 

[DoABarrelRoll]

Smeargle: D ---> Unranked: YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! (In Daniel Bryan's style). Seriously since the nerf of BP this thing is simply not worth using. Sticky Web is done better by Shuckle, and a FEAR set is gimmicky and near useless in this meta in my opinion.
Mega Alt: S ---> A+ Yes. Despite Altaria's excellent typing and versatility, the rise of Pokemon such as Weavile and Mega Scizor does it absoultely no favors, since it's weak to their prio attacks and needs to run a subpar move (IMO) to beat the latter. King DDD is its the best set if you ask me, since its bulk allows it to set up multiple Dragon Dances easily, but even that set loathes steel-types and Weavile, which outspeeds it at +1. Altaria is no longer what it was and it should drop.
Mega Gyara: idc.
Heatran: I could see it dropping to A, but considering its splashability and the capacity to lure some of its counters, such as Keldeo and Rotom-W, I'd rather have it stay.
Weavile: A ----> A+ I might be a bit biased since Weav is my favourite Pokemon but I do agree with it going to A+. Weavile's speed is crucial in this metagame, and is hard to outright counter due to it having a few viable options to decimate mons such as Azu (Poison Jab), trap Lati@s and Gengar (Pursuit) or wallbreak (Swords Dance).
Zam: idc.
Starmie: A ----> A- YES! YES! YES! Honestly I've never, ever, ever thought Starmie is that great. Due to its low bulk and dissapointing SpA, it doesn't hit as hard as it'd wish to, while its defensive set simply doesn't have the bulk to handle repeated assaults despite Recover and some extremely dangerous mons like Heal Bell Mega Altaria, Clefable, Manaphy and any form of Zard X set up in its face. Starmie also loathes Pursuit trappers such as ScarfTar and Weavile which can switch into anything but HPump and break it. My favourite Starmie set is one that includes HP Fire, to lure and 2HKO Ferro and bulky Mega Scizor, but that means you need to give up Ice Beam or Psyshock, which isn't fun at all.

 

[Baharoth]

I still think that Weavile is no A+ material. Its a good choice for offensive teams and has a very good match up against offense at the same time but outside of that I find it lackluster. With its complete absence of bulk or any kind of defensive synergy its a bad choice for Bulky Offense/Balance teams and its match up against such teams isn't the best either. Yes, there aren't to many fool proof counters for it but most bulky mons can take one hit from it and hit back, usually for lethal damage. It needs a good deal of prior damage (30+% usually) and the right coverage move to win the one on one most of the time.

While it can wear down many of its checks that's more of an theoretical argument because in practice its unlikely that your no defense, SR weak, LO recoil taking Weavile will outlast an Azumarill, Keldeo or Clefable. It also can't fit all the tools it wants to have into one move set. The stabs are mandatory and the last 2 slots have to pick between Low Kick to beat steels, Poison Jab to beat Fairys, Pursuit to trap psychics, Ice Shard for Priority and SD to get a better match up against bulkier teams. Talking about Pursuit, Weavile is the only pursuit trapper in the tier that can't switch into the stuff it wants to trap (mostly the Latis), at least not without risking its life or team support in the form of slow volt/turn. So you will often have to sack something to trap them. Outspeeding them without beeing choice locked is an advantage though.

I always see people here talking about how offensive the tier is atm and tbh i can't really agree with this either. I don't know about the tour scene but at least from my experience on the ladder there is still tons of balance and stall around in the higher regions. In those last 2 weeks Sableeye was probably the mega i faced the most so i honestly don't know where this whole sentiment is coming from.

 

[TheJFrenzy1]

Smeargle D--> Unranked: This thing really has no place in the meta anymore after the BP nerf. The one niche it does have is having access to all entry hazards but it's never going to be able to set up 1 and if by some glorious miracle 2 layers, but it's just outclassed by Shuckle for that role. Agreed.

Mega Altaria S---> A+: This thing struggles to break balance and offense alone and the rise of Mega Sciz and Weavile isn't really helping Mega Alt's case either. The metagame has shifted a lot to the point where Mega Altaria isn't nearly as threatening as it was a few months ago. Agreed.

Mega Gyarados A+--->A: Again Mega Sciz's recent rise in usage hasn't done Mega Dos any favours in terms of being effective in the metagame. Sub DD is still a really good stallbreaker but it struggles to set up vs more offensively based teams, which are all over the place right now. Agreed.

Mega Alakazam A+ ---->A: While the meta is more offensively favored right now, the priority riddling the meta makes a would-be-great mon kinda average. Also loses to Sciz, Klef and Mega Sab if it lacks Gleam, which are important things to keep in note especially as most Zam are running Encore as their 4th move these days. Agreed.

Starmie A+----A: Starmie is a rather underwhelming mon, both offensively and defensively. Defensive sets set up fodder for things like Zard X, Clef and Manaphy carring E-ball, which is incredibly common right now, and variants lacking Reflect Type are major pursuit bait for things like ttar, bish and weavile. Offensive variants suffer from 4mss and are rather easy to wear down due to switching into SR, not having room to run recover and LO. HP Fire is great as you lure Ferro, but you have to give up Ice Beam or Psyshock which bring about other issues. Agreed.

 

[QueenOfHax]

I agree with Mega Altaria dropping to A+ as it's a jack of all trades and master of none (and it was never worthy of S rank to begin with) as well as Weavile moving up to A+ since aside from Klefki, Keldeo and Azumarill there is literally nothing that can safely switch on it (and the prediction argument is moot most of the time because Knock Off is spammable as hell and Weavile can force 30/70's against a lot of stuff with Icicle Crash's flinch rate).

 

[dice]

pursui weavile is bad this is a given

 

[Dread Arceus]

Mega Altaria S -> A+: lol good lord no, this thing requires 2-3 checks/counters on every team and can pull wins out of its ass against so-called "counters". Possibly the most deserving of S rank on the list.
Mega Gyarados A+ -> A: Haven't used it enough recently to have a say... Seventy
Heatran A+ -> A: leaning towards no. While its defensive sets are kinda mediocre, it's a versatile mon with a lot of utility.
Mega Alakazam A -> A+: leaning towards yes. A more offensive meta is naturally more friendly towards an offense-breaker.
Weavile A -> A+: Yes. Pretty hard to switch in to, ability to run Pursuit, ballsy SDs can sweep teams. Only bad part is being unable to take pretty much any priority and being weak to SR, meaning it's warn down easily.
Starmie A -> A-: No. It's one of like, three ways to get rocks off your side for offensive teams. Its defensive utility is not-so-great now but it's still pretty nice offensively.
Smeargle D -> Unranked: Yes. BP nerf makes it lose every niche it had; it's outclassed as hazards lead by Shuckle, Galvantula, Aerodactyl, Accelgor, Archeops, Terrakion, Azelf, Golem, Boldore...you get the idea.

 

[bludz]

Starmie A -> A-
I strongly agree with this. Every time I use Starmie it's underwhelming. Frankly none of the hazard removers are good in this current fast paced metagame except for Latios. Yes Starmie can spin on several setters and is a solid Keldeo check (if defensive), but this defensive utility role is pretty meh currently. It's incredibly predictable, liable to pursuit trapping and while status absorption is nice most of these types of balance builds are running a Clefable anyway. Offensive Starmie is decent but it's really strapped for moveslots, its speed isn't what it used to be with Weavile and Torn-T running around and it actually simply isn't that powerful. When I build teams I don't like to use Starmie because I often feel it gives me more weaknesses than it covers (especially with how annoying it already is to check electric types on offense), even with the utility which it offers.

 

[Jimmy Turtwig]

Mega Altaria S -> A+ – Agree: While it does have arguably the best defensive typing in the tier, its average speed is just not enough to threaten a sweep against offense after just one dragon dance, since it's usually still outsped by mega lopunny and manectric and sometimes even weavile at +1 (which can still pick it off when weakened after setting up with ice shard). Heavily investing in speed can remedy this somewhat but the lack of bulk is very significant. It just needs a lot of support to break the counters and checks that very naturally fit onto teams, like scizor, mega venusaur, heatran for non eq variants, clefable, talonflame, excadrill in sand, skarmory, metagross etc. The biggest thing it still has going for it is unpredictability, but the opportunity cost for a mega slot is high and it simply doesn't fit as nicely into this more offensive speed driven metagame as it once did.

Mega Gyarados A+ -> A – Disagree: A defensively very useful pre-mega typing and ability coupled with the ability to actually threaten a sweep after a single boost makes this thing still so deadly. While just like altaria it does need a lot of support (stealth rock weak, magnezone and/or other offensive water type like manaphy/keldeo to pressure counters like mega venusaur is also preferred), once it sets up this is the more dangerous mon of the two in my opinion. You can also choose when to switch typings when this is most useful to you, it has great coverage and last but not least it is one of the best win conditions to have against stall, with mold breaker making short work of unaware users like Tomahawk.

Heatran A+ -> A Disagree: I still love how the spdef set forces stealth rock up on just about any spinner/defogger and it's quite versatile in general, but every oras player I know hates heatran so it's probably not a bad decision to lower it.

Mega Alakazam A -> A+ Agree: Ahh prepare for a long rant about how this is the best pokemon in the game that needs its own tier above S-rank. One of the fastest things in the game, even outspeeding some slower scarfers like Hoopa-U/Tyranitar as well as +1 Altaria, mega lopunny, manectric and beedrill. It fits perfectly in this new more offensive metagame. It is also incredibly powerful, base 175 sp.attk is just insane and it has decent coverage with some cool options like HP Fire for Scizor/not missing ferro and skarm or encore to lock mons into non-attacking moves and steal momentum. That's the thing with alakazam, once it comes in it absolutely forces you to react to him, and he's such an incredible win condition that requires little support (slow voltturn to bring it in maybe). The real reason to use this pokemon is the ability Trace though. Once mega evolved, it can do amazing things like switch in on pre-mega manectric for even more power, intimidate a landorus-t, sub up on a heatran, heal by revenging tornadus-t/slowbro, ohko everything by tracing dragalge, revenging weather sweepers is also huge and you can even burn mega sableye if you predict right (yes I know that's probably not a good play but it's possible!) Come on prankster subbing on a twaving thundurus just deserves style points, definitely needs a rise.

Weavile A -> A+ Agree: Incredibly hard to switch into and fits so well in the metagame, this pokemon is really the face of current oras ou. While not the most versatile of pokemon, it is more unpredictable than people give it credit for, with supporting options like pursuit to a simple sweeper set with swords dance that few people see coming and even less are prepared to face.

Starmie A -> A- Disagree: Being pursuit fodder sucks and has sucked for many generations, but it's still a spinner with reliable recovery and a very useful defensive typing (keldeo and heatran check, among others). Apart from hazard control it can also support the team by throwing around status (twave or toxic). Best hazard control in the tier (except mega sableye of course) by virtue of actually threatening the pokemon that commonly set up stealth rock (unlike for example excadrill) makes it deserve A imo.

Smeargle D -> Unranked – Disagree: Never really used this thing but a mon that learns every single move in the game has to have some sort of niche in any tier, though you can't smashpass with it anymore iirc so maybe it's really useless, not really sure.

 

[blank]

Pokemon I covered:

thots

Mega Altaria (S -> A+): Disagree, but rather neutral. Although the meta is definitely leaning more offensively ATM, Mega Altaria is still a fantastic Pokemon that's easy to throw on a whole bunch of different teams. It has a lot of different sets & variations of those specific sets, meaning that a lot of the time there's a bit of mystery as to which set your opponent is running. From both an offensive and defensive standpoint, this thing is a HUGE factor when building. IMO the way it marginalizes building is enough for it to stay S lol. It has a bunch of answers, it takes up a Mega slot, the meta is leaning more offensively, and we've grown accustomed to this thing by now, but it's still a huge presence that plays a big role in defining the meta.

Mega Gyarados (A+ -> A): Agree, but rather neutral. I don't have too much experience with this thing, but I think I have enough to briefly comment on it. Mega Gyarados simply doesn't appreciate lots of the common shit right now like Azumarill, Mega Scizor, all these things that happen to carry Fighting coverage lol, etc. and it faces some competition as a physically offensive Water due to it taking up a Mega slot.

Heatran (A+ -> A): DISAGREE! Heatran is an insanely useful, splashable, versatile, and just plain all around good Pokemon. It's really easy to throw onto lots of different teams due to the utility it provides and all the common shit it checks. Honestly, I think people above have already explained this enough.

Weavile (A -> A+): Agree. Weavile is an insanely good Pokemon for some really obvious reasons: it has excellent offensive typing + the stats AND movepool to take advantage of this typing. While it only really has one set with a varying fourth move, Weavile's role as a fast and powerful attacker is really self explanatory. It's difficult to switch into, it's capable of handling lots of common stuff on both sides of the spectrum (offensive & defensive), offense is huge right now & it's super easy to throw onto an offensive team due to these attractive traits... you get the point. On another note, I feel like Swords Dance on Weavile is rather underrated. It's only issue is that it isn't that easy to set up, and while that is a pretty notable issue, I think what it can do after setting up outweighs this as far as pros/cons go :p

Starmie (A -> A-): Neutral. I don't use this thing that much because I don't really like using/building with it honestly, but I still have a few things to say about it. Starmie just always feels underwhelming to me personally; the bulkier support set(s) never feel bulky enough, and the offensive set(s) feel just plain weak. For me, this thing never really carries as much weight as the rest of the team. With that said, hazard removal (especially hazard removal via Rapid Spin) is sparse, but that's pretty much all I see for it to stay A rank lol.

Smeargle (D -> Unranked): Agree. Smeargle really lost it's niche with the revision of the Baton Pass Clause, and its utility and lead roles are rather outclassed. Smeargle is a fun little gimmick Pokemon that'll probably see some strange (and probably super gimmicky) niche in the future due to being able to learn every move, but it's just not good.

 

[SmallBrazilianBoy]

pursui weavile is bad this is a given

what's wrong use Weavile pursuit? :(

 

[MANNAT]

Mega Altaria: Leaning towards yes

Malt

Mega Altaria S -> A+: I haven't really used this recently, so I can't really say anything about it, but i'd lean towards yes because of mweav, klefki, and sciz rising in usage.

Mega Gyarados: Strongly disagree

MGyara

Mega Gyarados A+ -> A:I've been using M-Gyara a ton recently to a successful avail. Keldeo is dropping in usage, so one of offense's best answers to it is declining. Mega Gyarados isn't really that detered by the rise in scizor usage since it can just sub up on sciz and have it only be broken by bug STAB or superpower, which lowers scizor's attack and defense, and it 2HKOs the bulkiest version of Scizor after rocks or small chip damage. subdd sets up on so much shit and water+dark coverage is so good, most teams only having 1 or 2 resistances for it as well as being able to use like eq to break rotom-w and friends as well as taunt to hurt stall badly.

Heatran: Strongly disagree

Heatran

Heatran A+ -> A: Heatran has a move to screw all of its would be counters as well as walling a buttfuckton of mons in OU. The offensive set can smack its counters for a lot of damage on the switch in and wears them down a lot, especially if it's running magma storm. It is an amazing fairy check, and can temporarily counter basically every dragon dancer in existance if it's holding an air balloon. PH Solarbeam+Magma storm can bop bulky waters that want to switch into steel/fire type moves. It can run hp ice to pop tankchomp/landot/gliscor. It can run taunt to stop stallmons, and is so versatile that it really shouldn't drop.

Mega Alakazam: Neutral

MegaZam

Mega Alakazam A -> A+: I've never used this, so I really have no idea where to put it.

Weavile: Strongly Agree

Weavile

Weavile A -> A+: Weavile is absolutely amazing, and the rise in tankchomp and landot as well as hippo being used as blanket checks to physical attackers helps weav a ton. Rising klefki usage sucks, but Weav can run so many options to beat its normal checks that it's crazy. it can run nat gift cheri berry to screw over klefki or steel types that usually wall it as well as low kick to beat tran/ferro. It can run pursuit (although it really isnt that great on it) as well as SD to boost up and beat mons that normally counter it as well as pressuring offense a lot in general.

Starmie: Leaning towards yes

Starmie

Starmie A -> A-: Haven't use this recently, so I'm neutral, but weavile tornt and hoopa hurt it a lot

Smeargle: YESYESYESYES

Smeargle

Smeargle D -> Unranked: This thing is actually complete shit and needs to be demoted because it is outclassed no matter what it does because rip baton pass.

 

[Exeggutive]

what's wrong use Weavile pursuit? :(

By running pursuit, Weavile has pretty awful coverage and having 4 solid attacks makes Weavile so threatening. It's fast and has great coverage and STABs (think greninja). Pursuit is kinda pointless. Especially since knock off is so spammable and risk free most of the time.
Not only that but it can't even switch into a lot of psychics as well as other pursuit users like ttar, Bisharp or cb scizor can.

 

[Swagodile]

Mega Altaria S -> A+: Unsure
Mega Gyarados A+ -> A: Disagree. If anything, the fall in Keldeo usage has made it more viable.
Heatran A+ -> A: Disagree.
Mega Alakazam A -> A+: Unsure
Weavile A -> A+: Agree. Weavile is good against TankChomp and Hippo, which as others have stated, are being used as blanket checks for physical atackers.
Starmie A -> A-: Disagree. Starmie is pretty much the only viable Rapid Spun user. Excadrill is complete dead weight outside of sand, and gives Landorus-T a free switch in.
Smeargle D -> Unranked: Agree.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Mega Altaria S -> A+

Highly disagree. Mega Altaria is something that always goes through my mind when team building, it's immensely difficult to revenge kill, as it has ways to beat all of its counters besides Talonflame and Mega Venusaur, Mega venusaur isn't the greatest in the metagame and can be pressured & switched into easily, so I don't see how thats a viable point. And talonflame still has 4x weakness to SR and can't really safely roost for the fear of Earthquake, which makes it less of a counter and more of a strong check. All in all a very, very adaptable pokemon in the metagame with plethora of sets that is a true for to be reckon with, and it's honestly just better than all of the A+ pokemon at the moment, so I don't think it should drop.

 

[Funbot28]

S to A+: Idk, I mean I am leaning to incline that Mega Zard X is the better DD sweeper in the tier atm, and recent trends like Mega Scizor and Weavile don't help Mega Alt either. King DDD really falls short in this very offensive meta, but I do feel that it is necessary to carry at least 1 check to it on our team. I think the hype died down for Altaria, and the rankings should reflect that.

A+ to A: Disagree. Mega Gyarados is still an extremely powerful threat in the current meta. Sub DD is very scary, and is unpredictability of what coverage moves it's running really puts the icing on the cake. The fall of Keldeo does help Gyarados immensely, and has many opportunities to setup thanks to Intimidate and it's type change that it could play around with. Keep it where it is.

A+ to A: Disagree. One of the most versatile mons in the current meta. It is really hard to know what exact set that Heatran is running. Also, it can check some powerful threats like CM Clefable and SD Talonflame. It is a great glue mon on any team, and really should not be ranked below A+ due to it's great diversity.

A to A+: Agree. Mega Zam is such a dangerous threat. 150 Speed is really fast in this meta, only leaving things like Choice Scarf Lando-T or +1 Mega Zard X outspeeding it. Yes there is priority that puts a damper to it, but then why is Hoopa-U ranked S if it has approximately the same defense as Zam, and also hates priority? Overall, the shift to offense really helps Mega Zam be one of the best revenge killers in the meta, and it should rise to A+ for this.

A to A+: Agree. The other reason why offense is dominant besides Hoopa-U. Weavile is amazing right now thanks to it's capabilities of destroying common walls like TankChomp and Hippowdon easily. It has a great speed tier, coupled with amazing offensive STABs. SD is extremely underrated, being able to sweep teams when checks like Clef and Azumarill are out of the way. It deserved this for a while, and now is the best time for it to rise.

A to A-: Idk about this one either. It is arguably the best spinner in the tier, with Exca not too far behind it. It has a pretty good offensive presence, but I agree with others as sometimes it's a bit underwhelming, and has a hard time finding chances to spin. Weavile and Mega Scizor rising also does not help Starmie, so I guess I would agree with it falling to A-.

D to Unranked: Agree. BP nerf completely destroyed it's viability. It really should leave the rankings now.

 

[0besity]

Mega Alakazam to A+: Sweeping and wallbreaking potential, an underrated ability both mega and pre-mega and the source of my highest score on the ladder (not exactly high though). His main downside is his lack of bulk, leaving him vulnerable to priority and making it harder to switch in. I hope he rises though.

Starmie to A-: Agree. Mega Sableye has more bulk, a better defensive typing, more utility and an additional moveslot. I see far more hazard stacking teams use him to prevent hazards than a rapid spinner. Any other teams simply use a defogger.

Heatran to A: There are more viable picks than Heatran for most of his roles, his defensive typing, splashability and unpredictability make him easy to fit onto teams. I think he should stay in A+.

Weavile to A+: He beats a multitude of offensive threats and is pretty easy to fit on to teams. He also has the coveted STAB Knock Off. I think he deserves to rise.

Mega Altaria to A+: Mega Alt can easily sweep unprepared teams, less and less teams are unprepared though. Unsure.

Mega Gyarados to A: Unsure

Goodbye Smeargle