I'd like an anime which sticks more closely with the games. I don't mind some of the changes the manga does but I do kind of have problems with some they do like making half the Kanto Gym Leaders members of Team Rocket and all the Elite Four evil.
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Pokemon Adventures Manga Discussion
- Thread starter Random Passerby
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I'd like an anime which sticks more closely with the games. I don't mind some of the changes the manga does but I do kind of have problems with some they do like making half the Kanto Gym Leaders members of Team Rocket and all the Elite Four evil.
I had that problem back in the 90's when I first read the manga.
But now I think, that porbably explains why Team Rocket runs rampant in the Pokemon world. At least, these gym leaders and elite4 are harboring Team Rocket.
I'm going to have to wait until the chapters are in order before reading through. Having 3 arcs going on at the same time makes it difficult to follow.
1) Anyone annoyed at how they sometimes gives the wrong information? For example, when Dia was using Mamoswine against Palkia and Dialga, it was stated that the Dragons are weak to Ice. Truth is, they aren't as their secondary typing negates the Ice weakness, making it a neutral matchup.
2) Also, they do have some "screw the rules, I have plot" moments. How is using Regigigas to fight Giratina (or using Regigigas at all) a good idea? Yet, this somehow works for the protagonists.
3) Stats doesn't seem to mean anything in the manga. Empoleon's battle against Floatzel was said to be a battle of Speed when one has 60 Speed while the other has 115.
4) Unviable movesets. This has been a major problem but how many times have you seen a Focus Blast Lopunny? Drain Punch Alakazam? Embargo Weavile? The list goes on.
5) Certain mons getting worfed for no reason. Red's Poliwrath and Gyarados never seems to win in a fight. Ever.
2) Also, they do have some "screw the rules, I have plot" moments. How is using Regigigas to fight Giratina (or using Regigigas at all) a good idea? Yet, this somehow works for the protagonists.
3) Stats doesn't seem to mean anything in the manga. Empoleon's battle against Floatzel was said to be a battle of Speed when one has 60 Speed while the other has 115.
4) Unviable movesets. This has been a major problem but how many times have you seen a Focus Blast Lopunny? Drain Punch Alakazam? Embargo Weavile? The list goes on.
5) Certain mons getting worfed for no reason. Red's Poliwrath and Gyarados never seems to win in a fight. Ever.
Bumping with permission from the Codraroll the Cod Mod (that needs to be your CT, btw).
First of all, I've noticed that recent art has been really, really good. I'm not going to post any of the images because spoilers, but there's a been huge improvement of quality over the years this thing has been running.
Secondly, XY got a Western release last month in a mini volume, and there's another coming in March.
Third and finally (before spoilers), does anybody know what the deal is with BW2's stuff? I'm not sure if they've cancelled it or not because Bulbapedia and Serebii have very sporadic news updates about the manga, and have let stuff slip under the radar.
First of all, I've noticed that recent art has been really, really good. I'm not going to post any of the images because spoilers, but there's a been huge improvement of quality over the years this thing has been running.
Secondly, XY got a Western release last month in a mini volume, and there's another coming in March.
Third and finally (before spoilers), does anybody know what the deal is with BW2's stuff? I'm not sure if they've cancelled it or not because Bulbapedia and Serebii have very sporadic news updates about the manga, and have let stuff slip under the radar.
So Y caught Xerneas at one point, and Malva has Yveltal.
Archie and Maxie are trying to save the world now, though their revival hasn't been explained from what I can tell.
Shelly, Matt, Courtney, and Tabitha are stated to be code names for the admins instead of their real names, so these admins are different from before. This is pretty much to justify the design changes.
Zinnia is either more of a straight-up antagonist or just a bigger bitch. Too early to tell for sure.
Archie and Maxie are trying to save the world now, though their revival hasn't been explained from what I can tell.
Shelly, Matt, Courtney, and Tabitha are stated to be code names for the admins instead of their real names, so these admins are different from before. This is pretty much to justify the design changes.
Zinnia is either more of a straight-up antagonist or just a bigger bitch. Too early to tell for sure.
I just finished the DPP arc, and it's grown on me. Also reread Emerald 29 (Or 28?) when
Jirachi revives Red, Yellow, Green, Blue, and Silver. I got chills then, I'm just loving this entire series. Also the little shipper in me now fully supports Diamond and Platiunum. *cough* I don't write fanfics or anything, but I notice the details.
I've only read any decent amount (so far) of RBG, Yellow, GSC, HG/SS for Adventures, but I always did enjoy the manga even as early as finding some stray chapters in a compilation book in the 8th grade.
Besides the discussion of the manga being willing to get a bit darker with the subject matter without outright veering into dark-edgy territory, I also just think the way it's structured handles how I'd want a cohesive Pokemon World in non-game fiction to be portrayed.
First off, the series is willing to change protagonists after a region has passed. The characters are allowed to actually complete their arcs and mature since the next generation will have a new character rather than the old ones having to become noobs again. One of my problems with Ash is that despite the accomplishments he has made, he barely feels like he changed at all as a character after Kanto ended. Ash himself from Johto-Unova felt like the exact same character to me in his own right, mostly serving as the plot mover and maybe a foil to someone like Paul (who I actually do have some valid compliments about at times). Red is a character who is noticeably different and more developed by the G/S arc than he was when RB started.
Despite that, the series doesn't outright abandon characters either. In the anime, once Misty, May, Dawn, or Brock left the group, you can count the number of times the show really acknowledged them on 2 hands at most. Even after their particular arcs were over in RBG, Red and Green still made appearances as secondary characters for many of the subsequent arcs, even serving as mentor characters to the new characters at different times. They stay relevant even after their starring role has passed.
It also has a firm understanding of what it wants to structure itself as. Normal Pokemon has so many filler/between episodes between each Gym or Contest or (insert other character objective) that I feel like it's trying to choose between being an over arching narrative and slice-of-life show. The manga is focused on a continuous story, so while there are some filler/breath-taking chapters, almost every chapter of the story does advance the plot in some manner, at least relative to the game's progression. It's also less formulaic because they don't have to make the majority of the episodes "Team Rocket wants Pokemon, their device is electric proofed, new Pokemon stops machine, maybe Pikachu shocks them now and they blast off."
Last, one of my favorite things is that the manga knows just how loose to play with the rules of the game. If they do anything particularly odd, they make sure to reference something like a Pokedex entry to explain how it works, like Gengar's shadow abilities. They also acknowledge certain limitations, like Blastoise actually being able to run out of water if he shoots too long. While obviously not everything is imitable, in the games, there's a logic behind it rather than "Thunder Armor" or "Magmar makes the air so hot Electricity can't hurt it," things that for no reason only happen once or only one Pokemon can do despite not having a trait exclusively.
Besides the discussion of the manga being willing to get a bit darker with the subject matter without outright veering into dark-edgy territory, I also just think the way it's structured handles how I'd want a cohesive Pokemon World in non-game fiction to be portrayed.
First off, the series is willing to change protagonists after a region has passed. The characters are allowed to actually complete their arcs and mature since the next generation will have a new character rather than the old ones having to become noobs again. One of my problems with Ash is that despite the accomplishments he has made, he barely feels like he changed at all as a character after Kanto ended. Ash himself from Johto-Unova felt like the exact same character to me in his own right, mostly serving as the plot mover and maybe a foil to someone like Paul (who I actually do have some valid compliments about at times). Red is a character who is noticeably different and more developed by the G/S arc than he was when RB started.
Despite that, the series doesn't outright abandon characters either. In the anime, once Misty, May, Dawn, or Brock left the group, you can count the number of times the show really acknowledged them on 2 hands at most. Even after their particular arcs were over in RBG, Red and Green still made appearances as secondary characters for many of the subsequent arcs, even serving as mentor characters to the new characters at different times. They stay relevant even after their starring role has passed.
It also has a firm understanding of what it wants to structure itself as. Normal Pokemon has so many filler/between episodes between each Gym or Contest or (insert other character objective) that I feel like it's trying to choose between being an over arching narrative and slice-of-life show. The manga is focused on a continuous story, so while there are some filler/breath-taking chapters, almost every chapter of the story does advance the plot in some manner, at least relative to the game's progression. It's also less formulaic because they don't have to make the majority of the episodes "Team Rocket wants Pokemon, their device is electric proofed, new Pokemon stops machine, maybe Pikachu shocks them now and they blast off."
Last, one of my favorite things is that the manga knows just how loose to play with the rules of the game. If they do anything particularly odd, they make sure to reference something like a Pokedex entry to explain how it works, like Gengar's shadow abilities. They also acknowledge certain limitations, like Blastoise actually being able to run out of water if he shoots too long. While obviously not everything is imitable, in the games, there's a logic behind it rather than "Thunder Armor" or "Magmar makes the air so hot Electricity can't hurt it," things that for no reason only happen once or only one Pokemon can do despite not having a trait exclusively.
Accomplishments? What accomplishment? Ash never wins anything, ever, unless it is the Orange Island filler or the Hoenn Battle Frontier.
While we're on the subject of character development, the Adventures manga does show some aspects of this but the change is minor. For example, the current Red is almost the same as the old Red except that he is more humble and varies his strategies. Otherwise, he's basically the same hot-blooded Shonen protagonist. Anyway, the reason Ash needs to remain the same is because they allow parents or babysitters (who watched the show as a kid) to enjoy and easier to relate to it as they watch the show with their children. Plus, kids don't understand character development and the show is aimed at them.
Well, the anime is supposed to be a medium of advertisement for the games so it needs to showcase all the Pokemon in the region, which contributes to the large amount of fillers and why Ash needs to dump everything except the series mascot at Oak's lab. My major complaint is that they resort to stupid measures to stop Ash from winning anything (read: Team Rocket Indigo League, Tobias) or broke the series aesop (train your mon and befriend them? What's that? A freshly caught Krabby and Tauros just wiped the floor with your team)
They do have some "Screw the Rules, I Have Plot" moments too. Bending Hyper Beams, Red's finishing move against Green, Scyther's Slash against Gengar and Regigigas defeating Giratina being some examples (I'll try not to mention a certain annoying character's superpower which can cause their weak as hell unevolved Pokemon to quadruple their levels ) . However, it does this a bit better than the anime.
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I guess there are some weirder examples like that, but they feel a bit less like asspulls to me when they happen in the examples I've seen (haven't seen Regigigas vs Giratina).
- Bending Hyper Beams isn't outright explained, but it's an established ability of Lance's Pokemon before the actual climactic battle. It's foreshadowed as something to watch for, rather than randomly "oh by the way, I can do this" when the fight starts to look winnable like the Magmar thing.
- Red vs Green, there's at least a Physics/Logic behind it with Poliwrath and Pikachu setting the move up, and it is logical that Venusaur could take that zap better than Charizard could due to typing. The Thunder Armor things, besides being randomly improved to win the fight, never made sense to me since Swellow is a glass cannon mon weaker to that type of damage than the opponents were, so how did it not only not pass out but actively weaponize getting zapped that way?
- The Scyther moment is admittedly the most implausible. I always took it as Scyther sort of scattering the gases that Gengar and Gastly were composed of kind of like a fan blade by slashing at them, which dissipated them and gave an escape window. Agatha doesn't necessarily seem impressed with strength so much as intrigued by Green's tenacity when she vanishes from that scene.
Won't defend Yellow too much, I personally don't like her power much either, but after (and even during) her own arc she's usually not doing the hard brunt of the big fights besides Lance, so the power doesn't come into play too often.
My thing with the Manga is that the non-game rule moments usually have logic and/or buildup to their workings, rather than just being a Deus/Diabolus Ex Machnia power to ensure a result or the Pokemon pulling something off just because of Willpower at the absolute last second.
On the subject of something else I like in the manga, I also just enjoy that characters don't stay confined in terms of their region. During the stuff covering Gens 1-3, the characters would interact and work together at various times. Bringing that cast together more often really made things feel more like a connected world, and having such a large cast of primary characters present in these scenes also gave the overall world a sense of scope. I haven't gotten into any of Gen 5 or 6, and still have barely read any Gen 4, but one thing that does sadden me is hearing that the stories and cast seem to be staying so self-contained, though BW that can be intentional and sensible.
- Bending Hyper Beams isn't outright explained, but it's an established ability of Lance's Pokemon before the actual climactic battle. It's foreshadowed as something to watch for, rather than randomly "oh by the way, I can do this" when the fight starts to look winnable like the Magmar thing.
- Red vs Green, there's at least a Physics/Logic behind it with Poliwrath and Pikachu setting the move up, and it is logical that Venusaur could take that zap better than Charizard could due to typing. The Thunder Armor things, besides being randomly improved to win the fight, never made sense to me since Swellow is a glass cannon mon weaker to that type of damage than the opponents were, so how did it not only not pass out but actively weaponize getting zapped that way?
- The Scyther moment is admittedly the most implausible. I always took it as Scyther sort of scattering the gases that Gengar and Gastly were composed of kind of like a fan blade by slashing at them, which dissipated them and gave an escape window. Agatha doesn't necessarily seem impressed with strength so much as intrigued by Green's tenacity when she vanishes from that scene.
Won't defend Yellow too much, I personally don't like her power much either, but after (and even during) her own arc she's usually not doing the hard brunt of the big fights besides Lance, so the power doesn't come into play too often.
My thing with the Manga is that the non-game rule moments usually have logic and/or buildup to their workings, rather than just being a Deus/Diabolus Ex Machnia power to ensure a result or the Pokemon pulling something off just because of Willpower at the absolute last second.
On the subject of something else I like in the manga, I also just enjoy that characters don't stay confined in terms of their region. During the stuff covering Gens 1-3, the characters would interact and work together at various times. Bringing that cast together more often really made things feel more like a connected world, and having such a large cast of primary characters present in these scenes also gave the overall world a sense of scope. I haven't gotten into any of Gen 5 or 6, and still have barely read any Gen 4, but one thing that does sadden me is hearing that the stories and cast seem to be staying so self-contained, though BW that can be intentional and sensible.
I've read the first series and it was good. I read the second series and I liked the idea of the elite four being evil but I didn't like the ending part with all of Yellow's pokemon randomly evolving, it seemed too rushed.
Fixed for you :-)
I myself didn't have access to stuff in the manga beyond DPP as translated volumes are hard to find in my country. The scanlations are not the easiest to find either.
I think I'm one of the few people who actually likes Yellow.
Probably just because I ship her with Red.
No, I like Yellow, it's just the weird Mary Sue ending
So, most of us have most likely read at least one of the Pokemon Manga books. While I've only read a few, I've heard about a lot of the different ones. While I haven't read any of the Pokemon Manga for years, I really liked all the Pokemon Manga I read, those being the Yellow Manga, The first book in the Red/Blue Manga, and a few scattered books from the R/S/E, D/P/P, and B/W Manga. My favorite would probably be the Yellow Manga. I liked how Yellow(I can't remember if her actual name was ever revealed) always tried to battle in a passive way, I thought it was a creative characteristic, and Lance in that manga was really cool, too. I also liked how multiple Gym Leaders and Elite Four members were involved in Team Rocket.
So, what Pokemon Manga have you guys read/liked? Which one's your favorite, and why?
So, what Pokemon Manga have you guys read/liked? Which one's your favorite, and why?
Yet better, we just merge them.
K, sorry, I forgot to check if there was an existing thread about the Manga :3
Why haven't I been reading Adventures lately. I'm just about to get into the Black & White arc, but I keep forgetting to pick up the books at the library so I haven't yet.
Most satisfying moment in the series so far
I am still waiting for the Black 2 and White 2 arc to finish. Well, with how fast the games come out compared to new chapters, it doesn't suprise me.
Ouch, satisfying but brutal.
Though I do have to ask if there's any more context to this? I ask because if Zinnia did what she just did in the games and Rayquaza tail punched her I would say that's a bit disproportionate. Yeah she attacked May and would have attacked Wally, not to mention disrespect Steven and ruined their solution to force them to do her plan (which wouldn't have worked if the player hadn't been there so she almost doomed everyone... two times), but Rayquaza doesn't know that. To Rayquaza all she did was pray for it to Mega Evolve and it didn't work. Then when the player is revealed to have a meteorite Rayquaza chose the player and Zinnia accepted it, even passing her title onto us. Manga Zinnia must have done something really stupid to make Rayquaza angry, otherwise Manga Rayquaza is a bit of a jerk.
"But I thought you liked Zinnia getting he just comeuppance"? I do... if it was by the player. Zinnia attacked, mocked, and overall was a huge jerk to our friends who either were minding their own business or trying to save the world. Oh, and let's not forget she knocks us out too on top of Sky Pillar so we wouldn't go anywhere until it was time to summon Rayquaza. Only way Rayquaza should been involved if Ruby/Sapphire gets control of Rayquaza and asks it to knock Zinnia down.
"But I thought you liked Zinnia getting he just comeuppance"? I do... if it was by the player. Zinnia attacked, mocked, and overall was a huge jerk to our friends who either were minding their own business or trying to save the world. Oh, and let's not forget she knocks us out too on top of Sky Pillar so we wouldn't go anywhere until it was time to summon Rayquaza. Only way Rayquaza should been involved if Ruby/Sapphire gets control of Rayquaza and asks it to knock Zinnia down.
Zinnia is a much bigger bitch in the manga than the games (which is saying a lot) and attacked Ruby and co. while their were riding Rayquaza (or something) because she was mad/jealous. I think what happened was Rayquaza got pissed at her for interfering with its will and decided to fuck her up.
I believe she lives, sadly.
I believe she lives, sadly.
Rayquaza even hits her with a Hyper Beam, point-blank because she was being a nuisance when it was trying to bond with Ruby / Sapphire. Sadly, Zinnia's plot armour remains intact.
Sounds like the person who writes the manga doesn't like Zinnia either.
"Let's see, I could write Zinnia as a more sympathetic character just with extremist views as the game writers wanted her to be like... or I could make her a b**** and have Rayquaza constantly attack her over and over again. AND this is for attacking May, this is for insulting Steven, this is for knocking us out..."
"Let's see, I could write Zinnia as a more sympathetic character just with extremist views as the game writers wanted her to be like... or I could make her a b**** and have Rayquaza constantly attack her over and over again. AND this is for attacking May, this is for insulting Steven, this is for knocking us out..."
Then again, this is par for the course of the manga. I swear it seems like the writers sometime goes out of the way to make the characters different from their game counterpart (which made sense for the earlier games, but not so much as the games started giving more story elements to characters). I wonder what they plan on doing for the protagonists of Sun & Moon.
Sun (the boy) is upset his family had to move and seeing as he wanted to challenge the Pokemon League and become Champion. Moon (the girl) has been loving in Alola for a while now and has come to love the peacefulness of Alola compared to other regions.
Sun hears about the Island Challenge and thinks that maybe if he conquers it he can become a Champion of Alola and create his very one Pokemon League from it, gaining a Rival in Hau who is a friendly local though Sun doesn't think much of him or his laid back personality. Moon meanwhile works for Samson Oak and she is one of it not the only friend of Lillie's who both share views on Pokemon being used for battling.
On their journey Sun refuses to catch Alolan Pokemon as he sees them as corruptions of his home region Pokemon, but it totally into Z-Moves seeing them as a way to the top. Moon is helping Samson in his Alolan Pokemon research so her whole gimmick is she mainly catches Alolan Pokemon. She sees Alolan Pokemon as the result of a peaceful region, but she is completely opposed to Z-Moves seeing them bringing nothing but violence. Sun's Starter is Rowlet as he sees it as a good partner with the Pokemon he came with from his home region: a normal Vulpix. Hau picks Litten as it has a lean back attitude like he does, just like his Komala. Moon will get a Popplio as she likes its energetic behavior and it gets along well with her Alolan Vulpix.
Finally Sun sees Team Skull as a valuable tool, he sees them as a Team Rocket copy and defeating them will get him major credit; he also finds them defacing Trial sites and causing panic rather amusing and a possibly way to show they need a new system of powerful trainers to prevent stuff like this happening. However he feels the Aether Foundation not only uninteresting but very suspicious for being both philanthropists with a nature preserve and scientists who perform studies on the Pokemon they care for. Moon hates Team Skull for disrupting the peace but likes the Aether Foundation as they both genuinely care for the Pokemon they look after but study them to better Pokemon and human relationships.
"Geez, you're making Sun and Moon sound like complete opposites". As different as night and day. :P
Sun hears about the Island Challenge and thinks that maybe if he conquers it he can become a Champion of Alola and create his very one Pokemon League from it, gaining a Rival in Hau who is a friendly local though Sun doesn't think much of him or his laid back personality. Moon meanwhile works for Samson Oak and she is one of it not the only friend of Lillie's who both share views on Pokemon being used for battling.
On their journey Sun refuses to catch Alolan Pokemon as he sees them as corruptions of his home region Pokemon, but it totally into Z-Moves seeing them as a way to the top. Moon is helping Samson in his Alolan Pokemon research so her whole gimmick is she mainly catches Alolan Pokemon. She sees Alolan Pokemon as the result of a peaceful region, but she is completely opposed to Z-Moves seeing them bringing nothing but violence. Sun's Starter is Rowlet as he sees it as a good partner with the Pokemon he came with from his home region: a normal Vulpix. Hau picks Litten as it has a lean back attitude like he does, just like his Komala. Moon will get a Popplio as she likes its energetic behavior and it gets along well with her Alolan Vulpix.
Finally Sun sees Team Skull as a valuable tool, he sees them as a Team Rocket copy and defeating them will get him major credit; he also finds them defacing Trial sites and causing panic rather amusing and a possibly way to show they need a new system of powerful trainers to prevent stuff like this happening. However he feels the Aether Foundation not only uninteresting but very suspicious for being both philanthropists with a nature preserve and scientists who perform studies on the Pokemon they care for. Moon hates Team Skull for disrupting the peace but likes the Aether Foundation as they both genuinely care for the Pokemon they look after but study them to better Pokemon and human relationships.
"Geez, you're making Sun and Moon sound like complete opposites". As different as night and day. :P
Hm, actually I think that's still more grounded then what Pokemon Adventure does (these are the people who made Lack-Two into a secret agent and X into a shut-in).