Cresselia used Will-O-Wisp!

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824545201

So I recently discovered that cresselia is fucking awesome at walling physical attackers and in my constant cresselia use, I have made tons of new move sets such as the one I'm about to show you. [I suck with introductions.]

Anyway..

Cresselia@Flame Orb
252def/200hp/52spatk/4spdef
bold-levitate
-Ice Beam
-Psycho Shift
-Reflect
-Rest

I have done very little testing with this, but this thing works.

Psycho Shift is a pretty neat move and with the ability to, basically, uses a more accurate will-o-wisp, why not use it?

Ice beam is for immediate 1-2hko's on salamence and garchomp, who can pose as big threats. Reflect is for setting up even more defense and helping the team out. Rest is the best recovery move for this set since even an already DDed gyarados will only be doing about 4% plus the sleep part from rest overrides flame orb.

As for the EVs, max defense for obvious reasons, 200 hp provide 431 actual health which means you can survive 17 turns of sandstorm and take only 53 damage from each burn, 52 spatk gives you like a 7% chance to ohko salamence and 4 spdef since adding it into spatk doesn't do much at all.

Of course since you'll now be burning things heracross can come in a lot easier and rape you.

I'm really bad at explaining things.. Here are some quick damage calculations and because I have to leave soon, I'll be using an online damage calculator.

All calculations assume 31 IVs, 252 Atk, adamant nature and max damage potential.

choice band garchomp outrage-14%
sword dance garchomp outrage-18%

1st dd salamence dragon claw-9%
2nd dd salamence dragon claw-12%
3rd dd salamence dragon claw-16%

cbgross meteor mash-12%
cbgross +1 atk meteor mash-16%
cbgross explosion-19%

1st dd gyarados
waterfall-6%
ice fang-3%
return-5%
bite-6%

sword dance scizor x-scissor-25%
2nd sword dance scizor x-scissor-37%
3rd sword dance scizor x-scissor-50%

Dang. That’s still pretty damn good though. Well you guys can look at this and discuss/make fun of me but I have to leave now. kthx

EDIT:I just noticed that explosion did pittiful damage and I don't think the calc took the defense halving part of it.

Anyway, it's 39% if you halve defense
 
Nice, you take some damage, get a burn at the end, loses 1/8 of your health, takes SS damage, takes MORE damage on the next turn, use Psycho Shift, burn the obvious heracross switch-in (come on, Cresselia would only use Flame Orb for this flawed strategy anyway), gets herself and her whole team screwed, suffer Burn+SS damage again... Really, no. Cress DO need Leftovers, specially with Sandstorm being the dominant weather condition, and because Moonlight doesn't work so well in SS (and has low PP).
 
Why in earth would you even fathom that this was a decent idea? Burning a sponge? If you really wanted to use psycho shift, use it with resttalk. If you REALLY wanted to psycho shift burn, however, you could use Honchcrow, Xatu, Noctowl, or Togekiss. Not a great sponge.
 
would a sychronize umbreon work in a similar fashion?

umbreon@burn orb
-protect
-wish
-filler
-filler

anyway, you have to find a way to put up reflect asap as well as shifting the status without dying. btw, would shifting burn bypass enemy substitutes?
 
I was under the impression that sychronize only works when your opponent status's you, not when you get it from an item or your own moves.
 
Calciphoce said:
Why in earth would you even fathom that this was a decent idea? Burning a sponge? If you really wanted to use psycho shift, use it with resttalk. If you REALLY wanted to psycho shift burn, however, you could use Honchcrow, Xatu, Noctowl, or Togekiss. Not a great sponge.
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Can you really do this?

Meh. In the end it wouldn't be a good strategy. %100 sleep is always nice, but "Random Moves" and "Clauses" don't work well together.
 
Seems as though I already finshed my homework..

leona0000 said:
would a sychronize umbreon work in a similar fashion?

umbreon@burn orb
-protect
-wish
-filler
-filler

anyway, you have to find a way to put up reflect asap as well as shifting the status without dying. other than that, this set looks great. btw, would shifting burn bypass enemy substitutes?
Click to expand...


This thing doesn't just die instantly in fact the only difference between this cress and the one I normally use is that that one has light clay and charge beam.

I'm not sure about that umbreon and I'm not sure about by passing substitute.

I guess we could get on wifi and check substitute or something.
 
strikesocom said:
Can you really do this?

Meh. In the end it wouldn't be a good strategy. %100 sleep is always nice, but "Random Moves" and "Clauses" don't work well together.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure, but this was just if he wanted to make some (if any) use of psycho shift in a better way.
 
yes rest then talk and if you used psycho shift then your awake again while your opponent is asleep I have tried it in Shoddy before
 
I suspect Synchronise Umbreon wouldn't work in that way because the trait only activates on the turn the status has been inflicted. If you use Rest and then wake up and be burned though, it might work.

Psycho Shift Cresselia might fuck up hard hitters like Tyranitar but not only do you run the risk of Heracross raping you with its face dildo but Burn Orb severely decreases its survivability to the point that you're better off with Leftovers.
 
I actually kind of like this idea; barring any switch-in with Guts, like Heracross obviously, this could work real well in hampering your opponent as Burn on a physical sweeper is nearly as cripling as Paralysis is. Electivire won't be getting a free speed boost if you Psycho Shift him a Burn.
 
I think the main problem is that people will see Flame Orb activate on Cress. I know if I saw it activate, I would definitely be trying to leech a Burn onto my Guts user. If I didn't happen to have one at the time, I would just toss out a special sweeper and take Cress down since it's obviously set up to only handle physical threats.
 
Loetke said:
I think the main problem is that people will see Flame Orb activate on Cress. I know if I saw it activate, I would definitely be trying to leech a Burn onto my Guts user. If I didn't happen to have one at the time, I would just toss out a special sweeper and take Cress down since it's obviously set up to only handle physical threats.
Click to expand...

But if you switch cress in after your poke has died, which alot of people do, it won't be burned until after the turn has ended meaning people won't know about flame orb. Which also gives you a turn to set up reflect and then throw a blissey at whatever special threat comes your way [or a heracross counter]

Actually, you should always set up reflect first.
 
824545201 said:
But if you switch cress in after your poke has died, which alot of people do, it won't be burned until after the turn has ended meaning people won't know about flame orb. Which also gives you a turn to set up reflect and then throw a blissey at whatever special threat comes your way [or a heracross counter]

Actually, you should always set up reflect first.
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Saying you'll switch to Blissey isn't really a good counter argument. Also, you can put up Reflect, but when you burn ScarfCross it's almost over right there. Reflect only last for 5 turns, the Burn on Heracross lasts until Heracross goes down. Megahorn is still a 2HKO WITHOUT Choice Band or Life Orb, with Reflect up on a 252 HP, 252 Defense Bold Cress.
 
Loetke said:
Saying you'll switch to Blissey isn't really a good counter argument. Also, you can put up Reflect, but when you burn ScarfCross it's almost over right there. Reflect only last for 5 turns, the Burn on Heracross lasts until Heracross goes down. Megahorn is still a 2HKO WITHOUT Choice Band or Life Orb, with Reflect up on a 252 HP, 252 Defense Bold Cress.
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That's kinda confusing.. but I guess if you switch a cress in [which will get burned instantly] and then setting up reflect will prevent a hera switch in from getting the guts boost and then you can just switch to a hera counter. [adamant cb pursuit will only do about 24~25% with reflect up.
 
I was going to use an Espeon for similar purposes with the Flame Orb, and I believe I read in one of the D/P Research topics that it did not work.
 
824545201 said:
That's kinda confusing.. but I guess if you switch a cress in [which will get burned instantly] and then setting up reflect will prevent a hera switch in from getting the guts boost and then you can just switch to a hera counter. [adamant cb pursuit will only do about 24~25% with reflect up.
Click to expand...

We can dance around the issue forever, but if you're burning things, someone is gonna set Heracross on you and ruin your entire team. All I'm saying is, if Heracross gets a Burn, Reflect isn't going to help. Also, the pursuit thing doesn't matter, because personally, if I had a boosted CBCross in, I wouldn't be using Pursuit. I would use Megahorn to absolutely devastate whatever you switched in to counter it.
 
Loetke said:
We can dance around the issue forever, but if you're burning things, someone is gonna set Heracross on you and ruin your entire team. All I'm saying is, if Heracross gets a Burn, Reflect isn't going to help. Also, the pursuit thing doesn't matter, because personally, if I had a boosted CBCross in, I wouldn't be using Pursuit. I would use Megahorn to absolutely devastate whatever you switched in to counter it.
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ah but what if a defensive crobat comes in on that megahorn with reflect up? Guts, CB, STABBed megahorn will only do 21% max with that 4x resist.

But this is really pointless since your always going to be switching out of a heracross even if it doesn't get a burn and you should always have something to counter a guts-choice banded one anyway.
 
824545201 said:
ah but what if a defensive crobat comes in on that megahorn with reflect up? Guts, CB, STABBed megahorn will only do 21% max with that 4x resist.

But this is really pointless since your always going to be switching out of a heracross even if it doesn't get a burn and you should always have something to counter a guts-choice banded one anyway.
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Wow, i can't believe you were even serious about that post.

A defensive crobat? X beats Y. When the hell was the last time anyone switched into a Heracross with a Crobat? Let alone one that's defensively EV'd.

This idea fails horribly. Putting a timer on the lifespan of an wall anyways is retarded, but the fact that you're risking all of this for a damn burn on a pokemon?

Look, in this post:

824545201 said:
That's kinda confusing.. but I guess if you switch a cress in [which will get burned instantly] and then setting up reflect will prevent a hera switch in from getting the guts boost and then you can just switch to a hera counter. [adamant cb pursuit will only do about 24~25% with reflect up.
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Let's calculate the possible damage you're doing to yourself.

Switch in-12.5% (stealth rocks)
They switch to heracross,
You throw up reflect.
Burn-12%
Sandstorm-6.25%

They pursuit as you leave-25%
=55.75%

And for what? For Reflect? What if Cress isn't exactly healthy?

Then what if it isn't a revenge kill bait-and-switch, huh?
Switch in-12.5% (SR)
Intended hit-10-20%
Burn activation-12%
Sandstorm-6.25%

They switch, you reflect.
Burn-12%
Sandstorm-6.25%

They pursuit-25%
=84%-94%

Seriously. The possibilities go on an on. If the Cresselia on the switch isn't completely healthy, or you take a hit you werent ready for, you've killed your cresselia. Now, any good battler would know, if you're in balls deep after the bad switch, you're better off leaving, but that's still 30-40% damage you're taking for no reason.

Walls are meant to stop sweepers, not to sacrifice themselve to cripple one. What if they, like most sweepers, have Swords Dance? Dragon Dance? God forbid you go to all this trouble just to activate some lucky machamp's guts, or to let it go to waste on anything with rest, or a special sweeper.
 
StrangerDanger said:
Wow, i can't believe you were even serious about that post.

A defensive crobat? X beats Y. When the hell was the last time anyone switched into a Heracross with a Crobat? Let alone one that's defensively EV'd.

This idea fails horribly. Putting a timer on the lifespan of an wall anyways is retarded, but the fact that you're risking all of this for a damn burn on a pokemon?

Look, in this post:



Let's calculate the possible damage you're doing to yourself.

Switch in-12.5% (stealth rocks)
They switch to heracross,
You throw up reflect.
Burn-12%
Sandstorm-6.25%

They pursuit as you leave-25%
=55.75%

And for what? For Reflect? What if Cress isn't exactly healthy?

Then what if it isn't a revenge kill bait-and-switch, huh?
Switch in-12.5% (SR)
Intended hit-10-20%
Burn activation-12%
Sandstorm-6.25%

They switch, you reflect.
Burn-12%
Sandstorm-6.25%

They pursuit-25%
=84%-94%

Seriously. The possibilities go on an on. If the Cresselia on the switch isn't completely healthy, or you take a hit you werent ready for, you've killed your cresselia. Now, any good battler would know, if you're in balls deep after the bad switch, you're better off leaving, but that's still 30-40% damage you're taking for no reason.

Walls are meant to stop sweepers, not to sacrifice themselve to cripple one. What if they, like most sweepers, have Swords Dance? Dragon Dance? God forbid you go to all this trouble just to activate some lucky machamp's guts, or to let it go to waste on anything with rest, or a special sweeper.
Click to expand...

k.

I know that sandstorm and burn just rack up the damage but this really works. I had 10 test battles, this worked without any problems at all for 7 of them, 1 of the battles was agianst a noob and I didn't use cress, another battle were I burned a CBcross, I just sent in crobat to take care of it and the other battle I had to send a cress as a sacrifice early on to take a specsmence dracometeor.

You should try it out.
 
The real problem however, is everyone know you're crazy to stay in on a heracross, so most will just Stone Edge you so it can take down it's counter so that it could sweep.

Staying in would result in you taking neutral hits and a beat-down from your horrible conditions, OR, that nice little crobat would get some rocks to the face, resulting in a dead crobat, a burnt or (even better) sleeping Cresselia so it can just ram it's little horns in your face.
 
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