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Resource RU Viability Rankings Thread

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edit: apparently being on skype invalidates your ability to read ? must be all the emoji :x
Assuming you are talking about:
[17:55] &Sweep:Hello tehy. according to skype you are implying that the only check for scrafty on balance is vileplume. togetic, emboar, aromatisse, poliwrath, hariyama, and emboar all exist. have an outstanding day

He was referring to:
[17:49] Tehy: aurora
[17:50] Tehy: moonblast beats scrafty
[17:50] Tehy: what else can you stick on balance that just defeats scrafty consistently?

and not your post.
 
Assuming you are talking about:
[17:55] &Sweep:Hello tehy. according to skype you are implying that the only check for scrafty on balance is vileplume. togetic, emboar, aromatisse, poliwrath, hariyama, and emboar all exist. have an outstanding day

He was referring to:
[17:49] Tehy: aurora
[17:50] Tehy: moonblast beats scrafty
[17:50] Tehy: what else can you stick on balance that just defeats scrafty consistently?

and not your post.

I mean, the only things there that consistently defeat scrafty are mono-attacking fairies which face a lot of competition with Vileplume by themselves. Unless i'm really looking for some additional medicham / gallade check (keep in mind check, because both of those still win with a bit of prediction) and I guess a semi-decent defogger in Tic, it's still questionable why i'd bother.

Poliwrath might be respectable, though. Depends what set you mean; i know special is popular but it can't exactly gobble up HJK's.
 
Vileplume should stay where it is. Defensive sets wish they were Amoonguss and offensive sets kind of long to have both bulk and power like Tangrowth. Yes, Moonblast lets it check Scrafty, but it's also really the one thing that saves it from being completely overshadowed. C rank is honestly fine for it.

I mean, the only things there that consistently defeat scrafty are mono-attacking fairies which face a lot of competition with Vileplume by themselves.

Aromatisse can pass Wishes, Togetic can pass Nasty Plot, and both have access to a form of status-curing move. All Vileplume has in the cleric regard is Aromatherapy. Vileplume just does not shape up as formidable competition for a slot and is really not that splashable. You are better off using one of the other Grass-types in the tier or a Fairy-type most of the time. If you are trying to compress both your cleric and Scrafty check onto one slot your team probably has greater issues.
 
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Vileplume added to conclusion reached b/c this discussion needs to stop.

I think it's been established that A) Vileplume is nearly eclipsed by Amoonguss defensively, but B) offensive sets give it a somewhat decent niche to justify it staying ranked considering its SpA + good STABs make it pretty threatening for certain balance/stall cores while being able to provide some pretty good defensive utility (Fighting + Water check and T-spikes absorption). For now, it's staying in C unless it suddenly gets competition as an offensive Grass/Poison within the next month that warrants it being unranked (which is not unlikely).

Feel free to discuss other things btw!!
 
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To D/C rank.
Not only is this the most adorable thing to ever grace ru with its presence it's also quite useful on giving dangerours wallbreakers some switch-in opportunities. Jumpluff sits at the 350 speed tier making it faster than virizion and durant which makes it incredibly easy to put something to sleep/u-turn out of tangrowth/amoonguss to bring your wallbreaker in(i'm running exploud, for example) it also gets encore which is a nice panic button against setup sweepers since it's faster than everything that sets up.
I'm not good at this whole writing thing so here are some replays
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-310080808
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-309794035
I've played some more good ppl with it like lep and such but i always forget to save replays so woops
Try it!!

galbiaedit: It also has the best shiny
 
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While I wouldn't be opposed to Jumpluff being ranked(Fletch kinda outclasses it most of the time since I feel its typing is better for more situations and Roost is really nice), those replays don't really show anything, other than Jump just putting things to sleep.
 
speaking of grass types, I would like to bring the spotlight on one that Ive been questioning its placement for a while. Just to spark some discussion and sees whoever agrees or disagrees

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Ive always wondered about the placement of this mon for a while since mega abomasnow re-introduction. Compared to other grass types rotom-cut just seems rather shallow and inconsistent. Virizion is pretty much the go to grass type for offense and many balanced teams cause it can soft check a ton of stuff like dark types and stuff like special flygon, tangrowth being a monstrous offensive pivot capable of taking hits with just some hp investment and retaliate with a coverage move, also handling tons of threats and wallbreaking much more consistently thanks to really good coverage. Amoonguss provides useful defensive utility and generates momentum with spore and even roselia that can set up spikes against common defensive mons.

Rotom-Cut just seems heavily eclipsed on effectiveness imo compared to the rest of grass types and even to the rest of the A- rank. Scarf set is honestly pathetic compared to other scarfers since it relies on leaf storm a lot to revenge kill stuff while having to constantly volt switch to not forfeit momentum cause thunderbolt damage output is rather pathetic at times, mega aboma being around just sucks for this set. Specs rotom-cut is a TON better having incredible damage output but I just feel isnt enough to keep it on its rank. Kind of hard to fit on a team compared to other grass types and I feel isnt autosufficient enough. I think it should go to B+ rank since it seems to be more on pair with the mons in there.

Lets spark some discussion on this imo, had to do it.
 
i find the best rotom-c set is ebelt hp fire. choiced sets are p bad albeit specs's ability to kinda be able to bypass spdef flygon, and ebelt has the liberty to switch moves which is kinda huge given the dominance of several ground/grass mons. choiced volt switch is just asking for a -1 in momentum tbh and it's far more precarious to employ for relatively minor gains compared to a non-choiced set. it's def worse tho w. the introduction of aboma and general competition from other dudes.
 
Agree with Rotom-C drop, being locked into a move that lowers your SpA by two stages is pretty meh with the amount of Pokemon that can punish that, Snow is a hard check, and Ebelt is neat, but it has the same problem as scarf as for damage output if you aren't hitting anything for super effective damage and the speed is an issue, B+ is good since it still hits hard, but is just generally worse than all of the A- mons.

Also a nom from me.
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Victreebel to D:
If Ludicolo is ranked for what I assume to be a Rain sweeping set, then I see no reason for Victreebel to not be ranked as a sun sweeper. From what I've found, it's basically a staple on sun teams for its high SpA and good enough speed to get the jump on most things. LO Solar Beam+Sludge Bomb nukes most special walls, and Weather Ball under sun OHKOs basically every Steel type(bronzong lives with like 1% after rocks). Plus Sleep Powder under sun is super annoying for the things it can't break, allowing it a free switch into a counter while the opponent naps away. And with the offensive nature of the current meta and Victreebel's resistance to common priority(Jet, Mach, can dodge sucker with sleep), sweeping under Sun is also easier than it would be in a more bulkier meta. It still isn't that good, as it relies on Sun for Spe and for Solar Beam to be effective, and its bulk isn't really good, but still, I think Victreebel's niches are well enough for it to at least be ranked.
 
189.png

To D/C rank.
Not only is this the most adorable thing to ever grace ru with its presence it's also quite useful on giving dangerours wallbreakers some switch-in opportunities. Jumpluff sits at the 350 speed tier making it faster than virizion and durant which makes it incredibly easy to put something to sleep/u-turn out of tangrowth/amoonguss to bring your wallbreaker in(i'm running exploud, for example) it also gets encore which is a nice panic button against setup sweepers since it's faster than everything that sets up.
I'm not good at this whole writing thing so here are some replays
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-310080808
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-309794035
I've played some more good ppl with it like lep and such but i always forget to save replays so woops
Try it!!

galbiaedit: It also has the best shiny
I would also like to say that Jumpluff can also act basically as a not as good Whimsicott. It pretty much has all the tools it use to have (except it uses Sleep Powder over Stun Spore) like Memento, SubSeed, Encore and U-turn. Of course it wishes it has Prankster and better defenses but it still just as annoying as that cotton swab.
 
I don't really think that Jumpluff and Whimsicott are comparable, despite their somewhat similarities. Whimsicott is fairy typing, Whimsicott has prankster and Whimsicott has better offensive stats and a better defensive typing, albeit less defensive stats. Now about the actual viability of Jumpluff I'm not totally convinced that it is deserving of a rank. One main concern is that the opportunity cost of running it over another grass type. RU has a lot of grass types and without stacking weakenesses (grass is also a horrible weakeness to stack) it is tough to justify the use of it over another grass type. While it does have a different role from other grass types, it provides less utility overall than what another grass type could bring. Its SD set is pretty much outclassed by Linda. Its saving grace is its fast speed tier and its fast sleep powder and encore, mind you a few other grass types can induce sleep too. I just don't think these 3 qualities are enough to really justify its use.

TL;DR has opporunity cost of being a frail grass type, only real niche is speed which can be done by other mons as well.

edit: oh mb jumpluff bulkier than whimsi edited my post to reflect that
 
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Swords Dance Jumpluff isn't out classed by Fletchinder. I'm getting the feeling a lot of people are joining the discussion about Jumpluff without even actually trying it. There's 2 sets being discussed, the support one being the only one the original poster brought up.
Jumpluff
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Acrobatics
- Seed Bomb
- Swords Dance

Jumpluff
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Acrobatics
- Encore
- U-turn
In terms of Fletchinder vs offensive Jumpluff, these two Pokemon are only comparable in the fact that they run Acrobatics, Swords Dance and spread status. Jumpluff has access to Seed Bomb, which can OHKO Seismitoad, break Alomomola, Rhyperior after a little chip damage, and much more. It also resist Scald. Overall this set isn't as great as what support can offer, but it definitely has a few pros.
Now the set that Diogo brought up was support Jumpluff. Sleep Powder + U-Turn + A good speed tier is what it has over all other grass types. Jumpluff allows teams to gain momentum and gives pokemon a free switch-in. What it has over Tangrowth is that Jumpluff actually baits in Mega Steelix, while every Tangrowth switch-in is immune to Sleep Powder such as Vileplume or Excavalier. Paired with a wall breaker like Exploud, Tyrantrum or Absol who normally dont switch-in on the walls they break. It also actually checks Virizion 100% of the time, which Tangrowth and Amoonguss both can fail to do without chip damage on Virizion (Virizion eats both Sludge Bombs and can SD to the point where CC or Zen kills). Fast Encore is just amazing when paired with U-Turn, and since it resists Scald it can come in and Encore things like Slowking. Because of the support set and the lack of Whimiscott in RU, Jumpluff should definitely be ranked in C, as no other pokemon does what it can do as well as it can offer on more offensive oriented teams and it actually does something vs a lot of teams, unlike a few C or D ranks.
 
I have a few nominations:
glalie-mega.gif
to A
Ok Wat is so special about this thing that makes it justt as vialble as tangrwoth or slowking it has medicore coverage, its outpaced by a few threats, it has a stealth rocks weakness, and has a bad defensive typing. Also 120 att just doesnt seem appealing when u have to waste ur item on a mega and u also have to run a jolly nature to make sure u outspeed houndoom, and to put icng one the cake it suffers from the 4 move symdrom u have too run ur powerful ice stab and ice shard, earthquake for coverage, but then for the final slot its a hard choice should u do spikes for utility or freeze dry to beat alomola, or explosion for heavy damage, and fire types r still a problem even with equake houndooms no threat, but u need rocks up for a chance to ohko emboar, ur outsped by delphox, mega camperut can take ur earthquake as well, and to conclude that ur walled by steel types like mega steelix,escavleir,durant, brozong. It also has trouble with bulky offence so i feel that it should go down to A rank.


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to B
B- is way to harsh for it imo its a very good rapid spinner right now solid defences, and just enough att for decent offensive pressure this thing belons in B. Imtimidate is also a good ability allowing it to switch into threats like choice band scrafty,sneasle, even choice band durant. So lets dicuss these.
 
I have a few nominations:
glalie-mega.gif
to A
Ok Wat is so special about this thing that makes it justt as vialble as tangrwoth or slowking it has medicore coverage, its outpaced by a few threats, it has a stealth rocks weakness, and has a bad defensive typing. Also 120 att just doesnt seem appealing when u have to waste ur item on a mega and u also have to run a jolly nature to make sure u outspeed houndoom, and to put icng one the cake it suffers from the 4 move symdrom u have too run ur powerful ice stab and ice shard, earthquake for coverage, but then for the final slot its a hard choice should u do spikes for utility or freeze dry to beat alomola, or explosion for heavy damage, and fire types r still a problem even with equake houndooms no threat, but u need rocks up for a chance to ohko emboar, ur outsped by delphox, mega camperut can take ur earthquake as well, and to conclude that ur walled by steel types like mega steelix,escavleir,durant, brozong. It also has trouble with bulky offence so i feel that it should go down to A rank.

Going to correct the spelling because I got a headache trying to read this:
Ok what is so special about this thing that makes it just as viable as Tangrowth or Slowking? It has mediocre coverage, it's outpaced by a few threats, it has a stealth rock weakness, and has a bad defensive typing. Also, 120 Attack just doesn't seem that appealing when you have to waster your item on a mega stone and you also have to run a jolly nature to make sure you outspeed Houndoom, and to put icing on the cake, it suffers from the 4 move slot syndrome because you have to run your powerful ice stab and Ice Shard, Earthquake for coverage, but then for the final slot it's a hard choice, should you do spikes for utility, freeze dry to beat Alomomola, or Explosion for heavy damage? Fire types are still a problem even with Earthquake. Houndoom's no threat, but you need rocks up for a chance to OHKO Emboar, you're outsped by Delphox, Mega Camperupt can take your earthquake as well, and to conclude that, you're walled by steel types like Mega Steelix, Escavalier, Durant, and Bronzong. it also has trouble with Bulky offence so I feel it should go down to A rank.

That said, I completely agree with this. Mega Glalie doesn't really do much as an offensive Spiker, with Ice being a miserable type to be and having common weaknesses to just about everything [Literally. Go look at S and A, and almost everything is either super-effective against it or has a strong coverage move for it.], and it isn't a super good attacker.

Also supporting Jumpluff being Ranked and Rotom-C going down, for the reasons above.
 
I agree with Mega Glalie going to A ive felt this way for awhile now (when it was S rank but only was able to get it dropped to A+) I just feel like this mon as a whole has too much competition. It has competition as a mega pokemon with 5 other mons, two of which being arguably better. (Steelix/Abomasnow) It has competition as a fast strong ice type with Sneasel which yes i understand Sneasel has fallen off lately but it still: hits pretty hard, doesnt take up the mega slot, is faster than Mega Glalie, has access to knock off, and also has Ice Shard prio as does Glalie. The only time i really even consider Mega Glalie is on hyper offense as a spike stacker who also hits hard, and it even has competition for being a spiker. Mega Glalie is still a decent mon but for the most part i find it hard to fit on teams or id rather being using a different mega.
 
Mega Glalie: I think there's one thing that has really contributed to Mega Glalie falling out of favor, even on hyper offense. And that's the rise of Accelgor's LO Spikes set. With arguably better coverage, a super important Speed tier (outspeeds Scarf Tyrantrum and Medicham!) and ability to bluff a different set early, Accelgor is on the verge of just taking away Mega Glalie's niche as a Spikes attacker. A-rank is fine for it. Has a lot of competition, but certainly has its merits. And this allows me to transition into my next point fairly nicely.

Accelgor: This was brought up a while back before the Vileplume discussion took over and I wanted to draw some attention back to it. I fully agree with BrandonBeast on this. Accelgor is a super cool mon for hyper offense right now. Base 145 Speed lets it outspeed Scarf Medicham (barely) and Scarf Tyrantrum. It's also ahead of every unboosted threat in the tier (except lolNinjask) and its coverage is surprisingly solid. Base 100 Special Attack isn't what it used to be, but its enough to clean late-game with Life Orb and it usually still has room to run Spikes. Role compression has been on the rise lately and I think Accelgor is that Pokemon for hyper offense teams. It gives them Spikes, a super fast mon with the means of outspeeding otherwise crippling threats in Scarf Medicham and Scarf Tyrantrum, and has the coverage and power to reliably clean late-game. In fact, the only remotely common Scarf users that outspeed Accelgor are Hitmonlee, Flygon, and Meloetta (don't even know if Scarf Melo is a thing now) Bug is a very underrated offensive typing rn and Accelgor exploits this magnificently imo. Also, it still has the traditional lead set which still does its job nicely. I just think the offensive set has more merit in the current meta. I'd love for it to be B+ rank as I do think it's the next best cleaner rn behind Sharpedo due to its ability to switch moves and outspeed just about every relevant threat, but I'd be satisfied with B-rank for now.

Golbat: Basically has Togetic syndrome imo. People use it for Defog when they should be using it for stallbreaking if they use it at all. Taunt, Super Fang, Roost, Brave Bird / Toxic is really the set you should be using with it, but even then, there isn't a ton of merit to it. Knock Off was already common enough, but with the influx of Dark-types, it's p. much everywhere. Aggron dropping did it no favors as it's a wallbreaker that literally doesn't give 2 shits for anything Golbat runs, except maybe Super Fang (all the more reason to use it!) I don't think it should drop to D as Taunt + Super Fang can let it break defensive mons decently, but that's literally all it has. C- rank seems fitting.

Hitmontop: This seems fitting. Dark spam makes it better due to Intimidate + Fighting STAB. It also has respectable Special Defense to not get insta-boned by special Shark. It also has a cute Rock resistance to deal with Tyrantrum, Aerodactyl, and Aggron. It's sadly bait for virtually any offensive mon w/o a Fighting weakness and decent physical bulk, but it also provides spin support. B-rank is fine. Good choice over Blastoise if you need a Dark resist, Rock resist, and spinner in one slot. Why does it seem like B and B+ are becoming "role compression" ranks? lol

Agree with Uxie, Poliwrath, and Roselia. Just have nothing to say that hasn't been said with them.
Don't have any experience with Mawile and Jumpluff, so I can't really say anything one way or the other about them
 
Well, time for something controversial. Probably.
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Leafeon: Unranked -> D/C-
Leafeon Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Spd / 252 Def
Bold Nature
- Wish
- Heal Bell
- Protect
- Toxic / Leaf Blade

Leafeon Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Synthesis
- Return / Knock Off

Leafeon has really only 2 jobs: A wish passer that resists Electric, Grass, Ground, and Water in a single spot, so it can come in on things Aromatisse and Amamalama don't want to come in on, or a Physical Sun Sweeper [and hey, we've got Ludicolo ranked.] for sun teams. Uninvested it's still very powerful [256 Atk without investment and boosting nature], and the base 130 Defence blows Alomomola and Aromatisse out of the water in terms of taking Physical hits. Its Sun Sweeper set also has some merit in that it's one of the few physical sun sweepers, even if it's speed tier isn't too great. I think Leafeon is more suited for D than C-, but I'm not sure if you have to be ranked above D first to go into D or whatnot.
 
I've seen more than one post about ludi and I really think it's D on the basis of the stand alone rain dance set which offers quite a bit more as a solo mon than any sun sweeper could, including the bulk + typing to set up on common defensive mons.

Sort of neutral on Leafeon's defensive set because it does have a tiny niche, but Victrebel is C- at best because it honestly sucks without support and Abomasnow really kills it. It's a lot of support to make a single mon work when the meta is going against it.

EDIT: Even with abomasnow around it offers more than a sun sweeper because it's not weak to ice shard + can carry focus blast.
 
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Jumpluff sucks. I battled one of the council members, who used Jumpluff, and it did all of 50% to Amoonguss before dying to Sludge Bomb. Yay!

Swords Dance Jumpluff has to rely on the shaky Sleep Powder to try and give itself an opportunity to boost, and hits like a hollow tube even at +2 since it is forced to run a Jolly nature to outspeed Durant (which tanks an Acrobatics at +2 anyway and OHKOes with X-Scissor). Grass / Flying coverage, which is all it can run, is ass and leaves you walled by most of the tier's Steel-types. A special mention goes to physically defensive variants of Ferroseed, which is immune to Sleep Powder and can either 2HKO with Gyro Ball after Stealth Rock / Iron Barbs damage from Acrobatics or set up while it tries to boost. SD Pluff doesn't even do much against offence because they will usually carry a Scarf user, such as Houndoom, or something like Glalie or Sneasel, that can revenge kill it. Sleep Talk Mega Steelix can tank Acrobatics and Seed Bombs all day and hope it hits Heavy Slam, and Mega Abomasnow is immune to Sleep Powder and kills it with Ice Shard. When you struggle to do much of anything against the most common and best Pokemon in the tier... well...

I'm not experienced with this variant as much, but support Jumpluff seems as if it puts something to sleep and gets forced to U-turn out thanks to the threat of an incoming revenge killer (of which there are many). If it wants to come back in, it will just get worn down by Stealth Rock. It also finds it difficult to switch in thanks to its many common and annoying weaknesses.

D rank

Edit:
Just saw the Leafeon nomination. I'm opposed to that being ranked at all. The support set offers barely anything over the far superior Aromatisse. It's fucked by Taunt as it lacks Aroma Veil, it has a worse defensive typing, it has a worse offensive typing, its 65 HP Wishes are pitiful compared to Aromatisse's 101 HP Wishes, and it has pathetic special bulk. Better physical bulk and higher Speed are nice, sure, but it offers virtually nothing else. It can't even take advantage of its Water-type resistance as it's fucked by Scald burns and must then waste a turn Heal Belling while the opponent switches something else in. Swords Dance Leafeon, on the other hand, has absolutely pathetic coverage and is almost completely eclipsed by Swords Dance Virizion, which actually has a way of getting around Steel-types not named Bronzong. 95 Speed also kind of sucks, which, incidentally, is another selling point Virizion has over it!

what's with nominating random Grass-types these days lol
 
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I oppose Jumpluff getting ranked any higher than D. I tried the support set and while its supporting capabilities and defensive typing look pretty cool at first, in practice it rarely does much. It's difficult to get Jumpluff in on many Pokemon considering Jumpluff effectively checks little in practice, apart from Virizion and Seismitoed lacking Sludge Wave; a neutral attack from any remotely offensive Pokemon will 2HKO Jumpluff easily due to its mediocre at best bulk. The nasty SR weakness doesn't help matters either. It's true that Sleep Powder + U-turn can give your team a lot of momentum -- assuming you don't get haxed, which will happen annoyingly often with a 75% accurate move -- there are other Pokemon that can get wallbreakers in for free, albeit in different ways. Memento Uxie, slow Baton Pass users such as Togetic, and standard U-turn users can all do the job just as well. Although Eelektross, Flygon, etc. may not have Sleep Powder, they do have the offensive presence to force switches and allow you to take advantage of U-turn. For me, even when it works, Jumpluff has always been useless death fodder once it's done its job. Flygon and company will be far more consistent throughout the course of the match, and the other Pokemon I mentioned are more reliable at doing their jobs than Jumpluff is at its own. Compared to these Pokemon, the frail and weak Jumpluff isn't worth it IMO. If it could check more Pokemon effectively instead of pivoting once a match (at best), I might like it a little more. Alas.

Also, utility Jumpluff certainly cannot clean teams with any sort of efficiency, contrary to what some people were saying in the matchmaking thread. I have yet to clean up with Acrobatics in either playtests or on the ladder. It is simply way too weak to do that reliably in this fairly bulky metagame.

The SD set is bad for reasons that have already been mentioned. Even if you can manage to kill something with it, Jumpluff is easily revenged by common Choice Scarf users found in the tier, as well as the many Ice Shard users (and considering it cannot OHKO max HP Rhyperior with a +2 Seed Bomb, gl with bulky teams if you choose to utilize this Pokemon!)
 
Okay, I've noticed a trend here of nominating Pokemon that are just so incredibly niche that ranking them at all is just kind of misleading. Jumpluff, Leafeon, and even all of the hype around Vileplume is just so weird to me, and I couldn't think of a good way to articulate why, but I think the main thing I'm trying to get across is that just because you use something once and it isn't absolute trash, doesn't mean it needs to be ranked. What is "support" Jumpluff doing that is particularly helpful to a team, it puts something to sleep and deters set up but is otherwise dead weight, Clear Smog Amoonguss does essentially the same thing (I guess it doesn't beat sub sweepers) without requiring the same support or being dead weight against top mons in the tier like Mega Abomasnow or Mega Steelix like Jumpluff is. And sure a P Def wish passer with grass typing is unique, but its not particularly useful. I get being creative and trying to use underrated Pokemon, and it definitely works out sometimes, like with Mawile, but a lot of the time it also ends up with a Pokemon's use being way overstated (ie I'm seeing cores in good cores thread with Poliwrath + Vileplume when Vileplume's literal niche is beating Scrafty and Poliwrath already does that).

So yeah, I'm not trying to kill creativity or whatever and I certainly don't see the harm in using mons that aren't ranked, but pushing for every little thing to be C- or D rank kind of defeats the purpose of this thread which is primarily a team building resource.
 
While I agree with llamas's general idea that Jumpluff is a bad mon, I disagree a bit with his reasoning. Jumpluff has some pretty clear pros over Amoonguss (faster, immune to choice Earthquake, has U-turn and Encore. Jumpluff will save you from SD Absol if u bring it in on the SD while Amoonguss just gets weinered, which is somewhat worth maybe). The main issue with Jumpluff is that unlike something like Whimsicott, you have to invest so much in Speed that Jumpluff is frail as balls and its typing is terrible for what its supposed to do (weak to SR, many weaknesses to common coverage moves so you get extra boned if you bring it in on the wrong thing) which means that it lacks longevity. At best, Jumpluff will probably stop a sweep, get a successful Sleep and U-turn off for momentum, then die because it took 50% from SR and can't switch into anything. While this is still potentially useful, this is all a best case scenario, and due to how frail Jumpluff is, doing all of this means you have to significantly outplay your opponent in order to successfully achieve its best potential, which still isn't amazing. While Jumpluff is viable, the amount of effort it requires to be successful is way more than anything that should be on this list, so it should probs remain unranked.

In regards to Leafeon, I think the mon has potential but the sets posted really don't acknowledge what the mon has over other things. I think if Leafeon is gonna be ranked ever, you're going to have to look at a set like Leaf Blade / Synth / Heal Bell / Baton Pass defensively, or an SD pass set with hp investment and speed. Wish sets are bad because Leafeon's health pool is so small t hat you're not healing anything off its Wishes. The key qualities that make Leafeon redeemable are its access to Baton Pass and really high defense, which lets it pivot out of incoming switchins on a defensive set to bring in frailer sweepers or pass Swords Dance boosts to things that give the d to Tangrowth, Bronzong, etc while still checking relevant threats. Without BP Leafeon is 100% a worse Tangrowth or Virizion or x grass mon and probably shouldn't be used (if you don't run bp on the defensive set I'd even use Meganium over it b/c its more tanky specially).
 
Agree with Rotom-C drop, being locked into a move that lowers your SpA by two stages is pretty meh with the amount of Pokemon that can punish that, Snow is a hard check, and Ebelt is neat, but it has the same problem as scarf as for damage output if you aren't hitting anything for super effective damage and the speed is an issue, B+ is good since it still hits hard, but is just generally worse than all of the A- mons.

Also a nom from me.
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Victreebel to D:
If Ludicolo is ranked for what I assume to be a Rain sweeping set, then I see no reason for Victreebel to not be ranked as a sun sweeper. From what I've found, it's basically a staple on sun teams for its high SpA and good enough speed to get the jump on most things. LO Solar Beam+Sludge Bomb nukes most special walls, and Weather Ball under sun OHKOs basically every Steel type(bronzong lives with like 1% after rocks). Plus Sleep Powder under sun is super annoying for the things it can't break, allowing it a free switch into a counter while the opponent naps away. And with the offensive nature of the current meta and Victreebel's resistance to common priority(Jet, Mach, can dodge sucker with sleep), sweeping under Sun is also easier than it would be in a more bulkier meta. It still isn't that good, as it relies on Sun for Spe and for Solar Beam to be effective, and its bulk isn't really good, but still, I think Victreebel's niches are well enough for it to at least be ranked.
agreeing with the Victrebell nomination but I think it should go higher since it has actually has a boosting move (in Growth) and it also has a Weather Ball which pretty much a third STAB
 
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