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VGC 2016 Viability Rankings

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How come Whimsicott is not on the list?
* Faster Prankster than Liepard
* worry seed to get rid of opponent's weather
* encore
* Tailwind / trick room

I'd imagine at least a B.
 
Cresselia~~ said:
How come Whimsicott is not on the list?
* Faster Prankster than Liepard
* worry seed to get rid of opponent's weather
* encore
* Tailwind / trick room

I'd imagine at least a B.
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Check the B+ ranking again.

I believe that Ferrothorn should move up to A. It's typing is simply fantastic in this metagame with the obvious and glaring exception of Primal Groudon and some lesser used Pokemon like Ho-Oh. It can take on a lot of the newly unleashed Ubers, many times in a 2v1, and still come out on top. It doesn't offer much in the way of utility except for checking opposing Trick Room strategies, but it has the defensive power to stall out most of the top tiers of this list. Considering how much the metagame revolves around Ferrothorn's biggest counter, it follows that every team should have a way to KO Primal Groudon, which makes Ferrothorn a good choice in spite of its existence.
 
It may be the fact that Whimsicott has the offensive presence of a piece of pickle-flavored gum. It won't be wracking up any kills by itself as it has mediocre attacking stats and a couple of okay moves (like Moonblast) but the main point of it is to annoy and confound your opponent. Also its typing, while pretty awesome, does have issue against some of the titans of the meta: Primal G, Ho-Oh, Yveltal, and Mega Ray all get SE damage with one or both of their STABs while Primal K will probably have Ice Beam most of the time.

That said, it gets some of the same options that Liepard makes common use of (Taunt, Encore, and Fake Tears) and can also Tailwind, Worry Seed, and Helping Hand. Plus between its Speed stat and ability it actually has the Fastest Taunt and Encore available. It has the moves and speed to keep your opponent on their backfoot if played right, but on the other hand if it can be played around then it's fairly ineffectual.

If it does get added it should be low to mid on the chart: It has the tools to do infuriating things, but I'm not sure it has the ability to make much of an impact otherwise.
 
Project_Mars said:
It may be the fact that Whimsicott has the offensive presence of a piece of pickle-flavored gum. It won't be wracking up any kills by itself as it has mediocre attacking stats and a couple of okay moves (like Moonblast) but the main point of it is to annoy and confound your opponent. Also its typing, while pretty awesome, does have issue against some of the titans of the meta: Primal G, Ho-Oh, Yveltal, and Mega Ray all get SE damage with one or both of their STABs while Primal K will probably have Ice Beam most of the time.

That said, it gets some of the same options that Liepard makes common use of (Taunt, Encore, and Fake Tears) and can also Tailwind, Worry Seed, and Helping Hand. Plus between its Speed stat and ability it actually has the Fastest Taunt and Encore available. It has the moves and speed to keep your opponent on their backfoot if played right, but on the other hand if it can be played around then it's fairly ineffectual.

If it does get added it should be low to mid on the chart: It has the tools to do infuriating things, but I'm not sure it has the ability to make much of an impact otherwise.
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As Celestavian already said, it's currently B+ rank.
 
Cresselia~~ said:
How come Whimsicott is not on the list?
* Faster Prankster than Liepard
* worry seed to get rid of opponent's weather
* encore
* Tailwind / trick room

I'd imagine at least a B.
Click to expand...
Just a worse liepard except instead of having fake out/foul play you have worry seed gimmick instead of it? Good defensive typing doesn't mean anything when you're getting ohko'd by all neutral hits. Overall liepard is better.
 
Haruno said:
Just a worse liepard except instead of having fake out/foul play you have worry seed gimmick instead of it? Good defensive typing doesn't mean anything when you're getting ohko'd by all neutral hits. Overall liepard is better.
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Whimsicott also gets tailwind which is pretty important
 
I want to increase Sableyes rank to B Mid (yes 2 sub-Tiers above), reasoning:
  • Immune to Fake Out, exept of Regular unevolved Kangaskan and Mega Loppuny
  • Prankster: Quash, Will-O-Wisp, Taunt, Role Play, Meanlook ,Recover/Moonlight (even though, it doesn't have any defences),Gravity and Magic Coat
  • (both Will-O and Quash are moves only sableye get's in combination with Prankster, While Murkrow also get's Quash, it's not ranked yet)
  • Other moves: Fake Out Foul Play, Feint, Sucker Punch and Magic Coat.
  • It's defences are just as horrific as those of Liepard. (Just a Small Note)
Con's:
  • Only 75 attack, still Liepard only has 88 itself, that still isn't staggering.
  • 50 Base speed, now this has multiple down sides but all are highly limited aswell:
-> basically anything with Quick Guard could block it's Fake Out, basically any Fake Out user could Fake out itself.
-> Loses Taunt wars against any Fake Out user.
-> Slowest mon on the field if using a non priority based move, just as slow as that of Mega Mawile so Trick Room could even irritate you with that as you can't set TR yourself.

I my self have 2 Teams i run Sableye over Liepard mainly because of the acces to Squash giving me a nice advantage when the opponant has somewhat lower HP, Especially when you still have a healthy Primal, Slower Mega Kanga/Mawile or All-Out-Attacking Legend(Mega Rayquaza(now beating Mega Mence), Kyurem-W,...)

I also want to support the idea of Creating a Roles compendium for VGC 2016, in this metagame allot of support things like Tailwind, Taunt are a must for everyteam aswell as having a list of answeres against the S to A-/B+ Treats to give people a better way of prepairing for them/seeing there weakensses.
 
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rhydonphilip said:
I want to increase Sableyes rank to B Mid (yes 2 sub-Tiers above), reasoning:
  • Immune to Fake Out, exept of Regular unevolved Kangaskan and Mega Loppuny
  • Prankster: Quash, Will-O-Wisp, Taunt, Role Play, Meanlook Recover/Moonlight (even though, it doesn't have any defences) and Magic Coat
  • (both Will-O and Quash are moves only sableye get's in combination with Prankster, While Murkrow also get's Quash, it's not ranked yet)
  • Other moves: FAKE OUT, Foul Play, Feint, Sucker Punch and Magic Coat.
  • It's defences are just as horrific as those of Liepard. (Just a Small Note)
Con's:
  • Only 75 attack, still Liepard only has 88 itself, that still isn't staggering.
  • 50 Base speed, now this has multiple down sides but all are highly limited aswell:
-> basically anything with Quick Guard could block it's Fake Out, basically any Fake Out user could Fake out itself.
-> Loses Taunt wars against any Fake Out user.
-> Slowest mon on the field if using a non priority based move, just as slow as that of Mega Mawile so Trick Room could even irritate you with that as you can't set TR yourself.

I my self have 2 Teams i run Sableye over Liepard mainly because of the acces to Squash giving me a nice advantage when the opponant has somewhat lower HP, Especially when you still have a healthy Primal, Slower Mega Kanga/Mawile or All-Out-Attacking Legend(Mega Rayquaza(now beating Mega Mence), Kyurem-W,...)

I also want to support the idea of Creating a Roles compendium for VGC 2016, in this metagame allot of support things like Tailwind, Taunt are a must for everyteam aswell as having a list of answeres against the S to A-/B+ Treats to give people a better way of prepairing for them/seeing there weakensses.
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Don't forget about Gravity. Prankster Gravity can really help Groudon.
 
Buy1tofun said:
Don't forget about Gravity. Prankster Gravity can really help Groudon.
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I think c+ is good for it. The c rank description goes as follows
Reserved for Pokemon that can work okay within the VGC16 metagame. However, they either have crippling flaws that prevent consistent performance or require much team support to work on most teams. Pokemon that have a few niches in the metagame but are mainly outclassed by higher-ranked Pokemon also belong here.
Sounds like sableye, no? Very niche as a will-o-wisper, and gravity isn't that great anyway. Its defenders and speed are horrid, and it is outclassed by liepard and other support mons
 
Haruno said:
you just can't afford using it really since your best abusers (slow primals) are absolutely fucked if tr isn't up which will be the majority of the time.
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You do realize that is basically the flaw of every team that runs one specific strategy?

Weather? You're fucked if your primal isn't around or if ray is in play.
HO? You're fucked if you don't get KOs early and often


Like the only teams that really seem to do fine are the good stuff teams. Does that make HO, weather, and TR absolutely useless to play? Fuck no.
 
nightwolf said:
You do realize that is basically the flaw of every team that runs one specific strategy?

Weather? You're fucked if your primal isn't around or if ray is in play.
HO? You're fucked if you don't get KOs early and often


Like the only teams that really seem to do fine are the good stuff teams. Does that make HO, weather, and TR absolutely useless to play? Fuck no.
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Daily reminder of last Premier and Cybertron being cool as well.

What i mean is, Mega Metagross + Palkia TR did fairly well, gotta say. And Cybertron's Palkia finishing second proves that TR is still a strong archetype, but there isn't a need to run Mawile with it. So basically keep in mind Trick Room is still a part of the metagame and it's viability isn't only reliant on Mawile + Primal Kyogre teams, as Trick Room has been pretty flexible in that aspect since the old days.
 
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Derivatives said:
What does it do now aside from beat kanga and ho-oh
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OHKO offensive Dialga and Kyurems with CC oh and yea only Kangaskhan which is still one of the top megas, a choice of Wide or (mistaken; doesn't learn Wide Guard) Quick Guard to support, Rock Slide is an amazing STAB, birds remaining popular + the new ones, etc. they're just off the top of my head. Terrakion is still a powerful force within VGC, it may not be as good as it was in VGC15 but that doesn't warrant a complete exclusion of the viability rankings, at least not this early in the year.
 
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Gaben said:
OHKO offensive Dialga and Kyurems with CC oh and yea only Kangaskhan which is still one of the top megas, a choice of Wide or (mistaken; doesn't learn Wide Guard) Quick Guard to support, Rock Slide is an amazing STAB, birds remaining popular + the new ones, etc. they're just off the top of my head. Terrakion is still a powerful force within VGC, it may not be as good as it was in VGC15 but that doesn't warrant a complete exclusion of the viability rankings, at least not this early in the year.
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Those mat be good things but Terrakion loses to both primals which are on almost every team now. It can't do anything to Xerneas which can freely setup Geomancy. It also doesn't do well vs Aegislash, Palkia, Mega-Ray, Landorus and Mega-Mawile.

It does have Quick Guard and Taunt which are nice and can beat Kangaskhan so maybe it could go to C rank or something
 
Mishimono said:
Those mat be good things but Terrakion loses to both primals which are on almost every team now. It can't do anything to Xerneas which can freely setup Geomancy. It also doesn't do well vs Aegislash, Palkia, Mega-Ray, Landorus and Mega-Mawile.

It does have Quick Guard and Taunt which are nice and can beat Kangaskhan so maybe it could go to C rank or something
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Agreed, C sounds like a decent place for it. And while it does well against Dialga, Kyurem, and Ho-oh.
 
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nightwolf said:
Agreed, C sounds like a decent place for it. And while it does well against Dialga, Kyurem, and Ho-oh, Kyurem isn't going to be in a lot of teams so that's basically a moot point to make. Why run regular Kyurem when you could run Kyurem-w/b?
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Well, it beats all of them so he might have said Kyurem as a general term, most likely referring to Kyurem-W
 
I think Gothorita should at least have a place on the rankings. With eviolite, it has more bulk than Gothitelle and access to all of her support options with lower speed giving it an edge in some situations under trick room, all at the cost of some special attack. Jamesspeed1's nugget bridge tier list rates gothorita in tier A-, I believe it takes second place on the tier just below Gothitelle. Is there any particular reason it's not on this one?
 
Draconid997 said:
I think Gothorita should at least have a place on the rankings. With eviolite, it has more bulk than Gothitelle and access to all of her support options with lower speed giving it an edge in some situations under trick room, all at the cost of some special attack. Jamesspeed1's nugget bridge tier list rates gothorita in tier A-, I believe it takes second place on the tier just below Gothitelle. Is there any particular reason it's not on this one?
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Mainly because we haven't seen much success with Gothorita recently. Only until Gothorita has some success on either Premier Challenges or Regionals, i think it's pretty safe to leave it unranked. However, if many players seem to agree that Gothorita should be included in the rankings, and many others agree that A- is a fit for it, it'll definitely end up on the rankings.
Not because he's James Baek he'll be always right, right?

EDIT: Also James made the huge mistake of putting Kangaskhan-Mega in A while Mega Rayquaza is in A+, meaning that those rankings are probably outdated.
 
Well that's literally the whole point of it :l Gothorita is slower for TR+bulkier w/ eviolite, and neither goth is dealing much damage in the first place.

Really, the question should be what does Gothitelle provide that Gothorita doesn't, and the answer to that is that Gothitelle isn't fucking dead weight against Crobat bc it can hold Mental Herb/hit with Psychic. This is definitely enough to justify always using Gothitelle>Gothorita considering how everyone is using Crobat like it's the new bird jesus whereas Gothorita just has additional bulk (slower for TR is irrelevant; in fact, so is the additional bulk in most cases). Therefore Gothorita should not be ranked.
 
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