• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

Unpopular opinions

D_what said:
Lol. I like how old this opinion must be. Don't bottle up your feelings man :V

CS Flygon was the last thing I bred in DPPt... It was... fine. Like, it was, umm, not terrible. I guess.
Reading this alternatively: It was terribly "eh", 0/10 would bother with again. I get it.

Vaguely related: I hope Milotic and Flygon never get realised Megas. :O I have reasons, though. You know how before gen 6 everyone knew Charizard sucked? Well, that hasn't really changed. That same Charizard still sucks, it's just it's megas are really good. But you can't use regular Charizard for anything. Milotic and Flygon IMO deserve something a little better because their base forms COULD be good, rather than just slapping a mega on the problem.

Mind you, Flygon would have to get a pretty hefty stat increase before it becomes usable. Jesus, its stats are just NOT GOOD.
Click to expand...

The problem with this is that how would they improve Flygon and Milotic to make them more viable without a huge stat increase or fundamentally changing them? That's the problem with many Pokemon with a Mega who's normal form really have no place in competitive, their Mega is essentially their last chance to be relevant in competitive which is sad since you can only have one Mega per team.

Now there is some hope for these Pokemon if they have a Mega (in my next example we'll use Charizard) and competing with another Pokemon who's normal form is competitive but they also have a Mega (in my next example we'll use Metagross). On this hypothetical team in the making, if they chose to go with Mega Metagross than Charizard is off the team as there are other Pokemon who can do its job better (like Talonflame). However, if the person decides to go with a Mega Charizard they can still have a normal Metagross on their team. So while there are other better Mega Evolutions, if their normal forms is just as viable than Pokemon who's normal forms aren't viable but have a Mega that is has a chance (of course its still a battle for that one Mega spot).

jordanthejq12 said:
New Unpopular Opinion:
I enjoy the RNG, even if it does screw us all over in a myriad of ways, and I feel that the inherent chaos in the battle system--from paraflinching with a side of infatuation and confusion all the way down to speed ties and damage rolls--is what makes Pokemon, Pokemon.

This should be an interesting discussion.
Click to expand...

For the story, sure, it makes it feel more natural.

However when it comes to competitive I do feel that some RNG should have an option of being turned off. Now I'm not talking about stuff like Paralyzing or getting a Flinch, I'm more talking about things like Evasion increases (something which the opponent of the evasion user can't easily remove) and Critical Hits (a mostly random increased damage and stat changes phaser). Maybe even add in a Sleep and Freeze clause while you're at it.

So in the most part I agree the RNG adds some natural feel to the game and that you can't completely rely on the math to know how the battle will turn out. However there are some RNG which does ruin the fun of battling or may leave someone feeling ripped off.
 
To the part of improving a pokemon without a mega. I think this generation has given some very interesting things for us besides megas.

Look at Pokemon like Bisharp, Entei, Azumarill or Crawdaunt...they improved significantly in this generation even without getting a mega. Bisharp is especially notable because of the Dark Type + Knock Off buff, it sees play in Smogon and Nintendo formats regardless of singles or doubles. It jumped from being a useless mon to a prominent threat.

And I think people don't take things into account that Game Freak changes mechanics of typings, abilities and attacks or that some pokemon get random state boost like with Alakazam this gen.
Also Game Freak randomly changes abilities on some pokemon if they realize that some are too good or too bad like with Chandelure or Scolipede.

And I don't believe that Flygon and Milotic are Charizard-bad that they would really need a mega.
 
mertyville said:
And I don't believe that Flygon and Milotic are Charizard-bad that they would really need a mega.
Click to expand...

That's basically it. My favourite megas are usually Megas of Pokemon that are already decent as standalones, and the mega is purely an alternative (Scizor, Gyarados, Alakazam) or Pokemon that could never really reach standard usability without drastic changes (pretty much everything else). But Flygon and Milotic are on this weird no-mans land where they're still not viable (let's say "viable" means "solidly D rank" or above, VGC|OU) but can see viability over the horizon. Whereas a mega would either overshoot (MSalamence) or possibly end up being still pretty eh when you take opportunity cost into effect, and once there's a mega it's not too likely to get a whole lot of fixes like those Pokemon above ^ did. And anyway, unless the Pokemon you like is irredeemably bad normally, it kind of sucks to have a mega made of your favourite because the only way you get to use it would be to avoid using all the other megas. I'd much rather see Milotic and Flygon be generically viable, and I don't think that's hugely wishful thinking.

Plus if there's a mega Flygon nobody will be able to run Scarf 'gon and prove Adamant Zoroark still probably right wrong.
 
D_what said:
That's basically it. My favourite megas are usually Megas of Pokemon that are already decent as standalones, and the mega is purely an alternative (Scizor, Gyarados, Alakazam) or Pokemon that could never really reach standard usability without drastic changes (pretty much everything else). But Flygon and Milotic are on this weird no-mans land where they're still not viable (let's say "viable" means "solidly D rank" or above, VGC|OU) but can see viability over the horizon. Whereas a mega would either overshoot (MSalamence) or possibly end up being still pretty eh when you take opportunity cost into effect, and once there's a mega it's not too likely to get a whole lot of fixes like those Pokemon above ^ did. And anyway, unless the Pokemon you like is irredeemably bad normally, it kind of sucks to have a mega made of your favourite because the only way you get to use it would be to avoid using all the other megas. I'd much rather see Milotic and Flygon be generically viable, and I don't think that's hugely wishful thinking.

Plus if there's a mega Flygon nobody will be able to run Scarf 'gon and prove Adamant Zoroark still probably right wrong.
Click to expand...
Unless dragon ascent Flygon!

I actually liked/appreciated the Teachy TV. Anyone remember that?
 
D_what said:
That's basically it. My favourite megas are usually Megas of Pokemon that are already decent as standalones, and the mega is purely an alternative (Scizor, Gyarados, Alakazam) or Pokemon that could never really reach standard usability without drastic changes (pretty much everything else). But Flygon and Milotic are on this weird no-mans land where they're still not viable (let's say "viable" means "solidly D rank" or above, VGC|OU) but can see viability over the horizon. Whereas a mega would either overshoot (MSalamence) or possibly end up being still pretty eh when you take opportunity cost into effect, and once there's a mega it's not too likely to get a whole lot of fixes like those Pokemon above ^ did. And anyway, unless the Pokemon you like is irredeemably bad normally, it kind of sucks to have a mega made of your favourite because the only way you get to use it would be to avoid using all the other megas. I'd much rather see Milotic and Flygon be generically viable, and I don't think that's hugely wishful thinking.

Plus if there's a mega Flygon nobody will be able to run Scarf 'gon and prove Adamant Zoroark still probably right wrong.
Click to expand...
Don't forget! The Mega can take the Pokemon in a completely different direction too rather than just making it better at what it's already doing. I mean, nobody would have thought Mega Pidgeot would have been a good special attacker, for instance. And they DID give Vibrava Boomburst... Anybody want to see a Special Attacking Ground/Flying Mega Flygon with Aerilate? :P
 
Darth Manaphy said:
Don't forget! The Mega can take the Pokemon in a completely different direction too rather than just making it better at what it's already doing. I mean, nobody would have thought Mega Pidgeot would have been a good special attacker, for instance. And they DID give Vibrava Boomburst... Anybody want to see a Special Attacking Ground/Flying Mega Flygon with Aerilate? :P
Click to expand...
They could always break the rules of Pokemon again and add new stuff that means Flygon doesn't need a mega stone like dragon ascent did. Who knows? I actually like that element of mystery....
 
Darth Manaphy said:
Don't forget! The Mega can take the Pokemon in a completely different direction too rather than just making it better at what it's already doing. I mean, nobody would have thought Mega Pidgeot would have been a good special attacker, for instance. And they DID give Vibrava Boomburst... Anybody want to see a Special Attacking Ground/Flying Mega Flygon with Aerilate? :P
Click to expand...
To be honest, nobody expected that Special Attacking Swellow would be a thing today either and it isn't a mega.

And I don't know why we would need an inferiour Mega Salamence of all things. :/
 
Darth Manaphy said:
Don't forget! The Mega can take the Pokemon in a completely different direction too rather than just making it better at what it's already doing. I mean, nobody would have thought Mega Pidgeot would have been a good special attacker, for instance. And they DID give Vibrava Boomburst... Anybody want to see a Special Attacking Ground/Flying Mega Flygon with Aerilate? :P
Click to expand...

Maybe a Dragon Bug pokemon who loses Levitate but gains a Bug-ate ability and BIIIIIM ! Boombursted ! :D
 
The_Emperor said:
That would be great, but it would BUG some people...
Click to expand...

That was terrible. You are dragon the good name of this thread through the, uh, mud.

inb4 u r grounded

Bug/Dragon is kind of terrible outside of better U-turns. Why does nobody ever suggest Ground/Bug? It's out there but at least it counters the "everything is/should be a dragon type" circlejerk.
 
Or Ground/Dragon with a new ability that lets it have Bug as a third type.

Regardless at this point the thread is devolving into wishlisting... so I'm gonna get it back on track.

Gold and Silver were bar Diamond and Pearl the worst main games
 
Kurona said:
Or Ground/Dragon with a new ability that lets it have Bug as a third type.

Regardless at this point the thread is devolving into wishlisting... so I'm gonna get it back on track.

Gold and Silver were bar Diamond and Pearl the worst main games
Click to expand...
I would make the argument that the original was the worst if it wasn't for the fact that the glitches were so fun. It was needlessly slow and half the shit they wanted didn't even work right (remember the whole Focus Energy halving critical hit ratio). It's fine that they didn't get a chance to remove the glitches. Most of them you'll never notice. But still. It's like they didn't even bother debugging what they put into the game. The AI was also ridiculously simplistic to the point where some of the trainers didn't even know what "doing damage" was. I remember hearing how you can easily beat Ericka with a Bulbasaur due to the game emphasizing type advantages over actual damage (she would keep trying to use Poison Powder on you despite you being immune thanks to being part poison). I don't know. It just was like at times they didn't even bother checking it. (Or they made the game so easy that even their debuggers didn't spend a lot of time actually battling trainers)
 
Darth Manaphy said:
I would make the argument that the original was the worst if it wasn't for the fact that the glitches were so fun. It was needlessly slow and half the shit they wanted didn't even work right (remember the whole Focus Energy halving critical hit ratio). It's fine that they didn't get a chance to remove the glitches. Most of them you'll never notice. But still. It's like they didn't even bother debugging what they put into the game. The AI was also ridiculously simplistic to the point where some of the trainers didn't even know what "doing damage" was. I remember hearing how you can easily beat Ericka with a Bulbasaur due to the game emphasizing type advantages over actual damage (she would keep trying to use Poison Powder on you despite you being immune thanks to being part poison). I don't know. It just was like at times they didn't even bother checking it. (Or they made the game so easy that even their debuggers didn't spend a lot of time actually battling trainers)
Click to expand...
It's kind of hard for me to be mad at the original game when it was their first go at Pokémon so they clearly had quite a few problems - I give the original Mega Man and Sonic the Hedgehog a free pass for the same reasons (doesn't mean Labyrinth Zone isn't a bitch tho). Especially in light of the fact that when it was updated to FRLG with the contemporary mechanics and engine, I'd actually argue it stands as one of the best games in the franchise; Golbat refusing to evolve notwithstanding. Many of the problems I have with Gold and Silver (no place to grind, massive level curve, Johto Pokémon being sparse in their appearances compared to the older Kanto Pokémon) still remain when updated to HGSS.
I really can't judge first games in a series fairly when they were really just getting their bearings; and for what it's worth Red and Blue were extremely impressive with what they did with as primitive a device as the Gameboy. I can't give the same free pass to Diamond and Pearl; released on the 10th anniversary year of the series.
 
As far as the generational games and evaluating them, I can forgive technical issues so long as they don't mar the game to the point of hindering playability. Gen 1 had glitches abound, but most of them I wouldn't have known existed if not for the various compilations by people who experimented with or dove into the code. And as FR/LG showed Gen 1 from a design and gameplay progression standpoint, while not spectacular, was still at minimum solid. Gen 1 running on Gen 6's engine/hardware would still be a fairly competent game.

Gen 2, most of my grievances are on a design level as many of them persisted into the remakes. My problem is that for the difficulty, there really doesn't feel like there's any proper "middle ground" to play it. Everyone had those horror stories about Whitney's Miltank, maybe Morty's Gengar, because yeah, for a blind run those are some strong roadblocks. But if you know the trick (The Machop trade, or how Morty can't directly damage a Normal type with anything but Dream Eater), they become incredibly easy to clear, or not even with these tricks but just knowing what to expect. Essentially, Gen 2 is a game that is probably somewhat hard on your first/blind run at least at points, and then becomes extremely easy to do when you know the game's tricks. Compare something like Misty's Starmie, which is strong enough to give you trouble with or without the right mons, but still isn't anything too ridiculous regardless as long as you understand some basic battling logic.

The thing that really makes this apparent for me was a first timer stream Nuzlocke run of HG/SS (knew the game, first time Nuzlocke-ing). The run wiped half the team against Falkner and then had a TPK of 5 mons against the rival in Azalea town. The only real choice would have been to grind since the typical rules of a Nuzlocke restrict the ability to simply catch the right mons for a run (the killer opponent was a Croconaw, which he had no option for after not getting Mareep and losing Bellsprout), but grinding is so phenomenally slow with the Wild Pokemon in the area not even breaking 10 consistently and the target opponents in their mid-teens. That essentially means if you didn't catch the right mons (or caught in a regular run and didn't grind them on the trainers), you're stuck at a slog unless you really want to spam items. And that's just one example.

Another example of this is just looking at the starters. At this point, it's not a case of difficulty at different points like the Kanto Starters (Bulbasaur is strong early game, Squirtle is consistently decent, Charmander picks up a bit later), the game flat out gives no reason to pick Chikorita, who is terrible for most of the gyms and doesn't contribute against most of Team Rocket or the Elite 4. They designed a defensive starter for a region where every relevant opponent has an offensive AND defensive edge against it. Heck, the Rival teams, usually meant as tests of your skill with a balanced team, everything except Kadabra resists or has a SE STAB to hit Chikorita with by the end game (disregarding Gen 2's abyssmal movepools). And of course, there's the infamous level curve.

This is my thing, Gen 2's game design was either too easy or extremely tedious if you tried a self-imposed challenge to play by different rules, a problem it actually shares in my eye with Sinnoh; even then, Sinnoh did have some slow design/progression, but, as Platinum showed, fixing the tech and interface could remedy that more than a bit.

Gen 4 is slow but overall fair (fuck Cynthia's Garchomp), but Gen 2 is either fast-and-too-easy, or slow-and-tedious to get any level of worthwhile resistance.
 
Last edited:
Here's an unpopular opinion:
NONE of the main series games are the worst. Each have their pros and cons and I've had fun playing each one. I find what people consider to be the worst depends on their experience with the games in question combined with when they started playing Pokémon.
Many who started with Red or Blue would be biased in their favor while hating Black and White for not having any previous Pokémon. People who started in Generation IV might hate Generation III due to the lack of a physical special split. People who started with Platinum might hate Diamond and Pearl for having the flaws that were fixed in Platinum.
But I strongly believe that none of the games are bad. Yes, even the glitch filled mess of Generation I since that can be a lot of fun. Also, to be fair, those are the stablest glitch filled games I've ever seen.
 
It's just human nature for when set or collection is presented to judge and rank them amongst each other, even if the lowest rung is still the bronze medalist at the Olympics. I don't think any single generation or main series game is really hated on collective, but since negative voices ring the loudest it's easy to get the wrong impression.

Now enough of that sweet stuff, it's time to get salty. Because I ordered a plate of level design and Sinnoh gave me nothing but beef!

For this to be a fair comparison, I'm choosing Platinum versus HG/SS because G/S versus D/P will just confuse the issue with software limitations and design bugs that were later corrected. Now, I will preface this with admitting that HG/SS is my favorite but I do agree with Pika Pal's statements. I found the game fun and challenging, but if you say that the challenge was completely artificial and due to lacking elements then yeah, I can't deny that. I also agree that Platinum overall is still a pretty good game, and that the trainers and bosses managed to be challenging but fair for the most part.

But that is just one half of the game's world, and for me all of Sinnoh failed hardcore on level design, almost to worst of the series. Sinnoh is linear, there's only one path from start to Elite Four, but you'd never really notice with how kooky crazy that path is, having you double back, reroute, and get flung to and fro around the map like it's little sock puppet. Yet despite all this you still hit road blocks, both of the HM-variety (gotta get surf to go to Canclave!) and the "can't go here yet" obnoxious ones (Psyduck's gotta headache and you gotta wait). So the worst of linear design and the worst of non-linear design, both melded together. How do you even do that?!

But that's all overall impressions. I just wish there was one solid route to really illustrate my point...

17.png

Ladies and Gentleman, I present The Snowpoint Trail.

The path to Snowpoint contains every single reason I think Sinnoh's level design is poopy. All rolled up into a grim trek north that ends with you frozen in a snowbank considering what Bibarel tastes like as you shiver in the cold. Did any of the designers ever hear of the Donner Party?!

1. You start at Mt. Coronet. Wow, stumble right out of the gate. The designer of Mt. Coronet went to the same school as the Ocean Palace of Phantom Hourglass in Ways to make a bad level: 101, make you repeat it over and over in bigger chunks. So in this one you've got to grab 2 or 3 HM Slaves and bench some fightin' mons just to move some rocks out of your way. Yay? This is why the HM policy got nuked in Gen 5, Mt. Coronet requires 7 moves total to fully complete. Luckily you don't need all of them at this moment, but just you wait. Just you wait.

2. No Fly spots. So instead of a bottleneck, we are now stuck in a corridor. There's no getting off the Snowpoint Trail until either finishing or starting over from the beginning. True, at least the trainers won't reset but you will be stuck with the HM slaves needed for Mt. Coronet until the end of the trip. They were nice enough to give you a resting spot half-way, but no such luck if you run out of items.

3. It's LONG. It's technically two routes, 216 and 217 but since they just flow into one another it's really one long super route. Saving grace is that wild pokemon only pop up in tall grass, and there isn't much of that. So you don't need that many Repels the further you go (which is good, since the inventory system in Gen4 was... bloated).

4. The weather. You are dealing with hail from start to finish, which means that no matter how good you are, your pokemon are fighting a war of attrition against hail damage and trainer damage. So even your best mons get whittled away bit by bit. Only one type of pokemon is immune. To add insult to injury, it even effects the player, YOU! Visibility starts at a premium and then lows to a hair above "Flash cave" level as the snowstorm gets worse and worse as you go north. So it's like a Fog route, but Defog won't work. Why did we ever need Defog, other than for Gen 6 battle mechanics?

5. The trainers. Due to Sinnoh's trainer classes, 60% of the trainers on this route are Ace Trainers. Only about 20% are actually the ice using skiers and snowboarders, the remaining are Ninja boys (popping out of the snow. LIKE DAISIES!) and Karate guys. While this could be a legit and fun challenge, Ace Trainers use a diverse set of pokemon and have a tiny bit better A.I., all the other flaws make this one a flaw by association. It's unfair to take on diverse trainers when half your team is an HM slave and the other half is dying to hail. So you can't cheese the route by spamming Close Combat until your girlfriend says "I need some space." You need to meet diversity with diversity... and your underleveled Bibarel who just sticks around for Strength and Rock Smash.

6. Gee, Mr. Stage7-4, that all sounds pretty bad but not worth ranting over. I feel this garbage pie is just missing something to take it into the WORST LEVEL EVER territory. Something super annoying, adding nothing to the game but to watch you suffer and suffer and suffer and suffer THOSE STUPID SNOW PILES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The closer you get to Snowpoint the more you have to deal with snowbanks, areas of the map that reduce your walking speed to a crawl and sometimes trap you, making you shake yourself out of it. And they are everywhere! And unlike the Great Marsh and the swamps, there's no trick and no visual clue, any part of the snow can do this and at some places it's just unavoidable. You cannot just dodge trainers running through the map as fast as you can to get this whole ordeal over with. And it never lets up EVER. Even after you get to Snowpoint there are still these snow banks to trap you and waste your time. Who in there right mind came up with this?! HOW IS THIS FUN?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!(death by punctuation)

And every other level in Sinnoh just takes one or more of the above points and runs with it, especially HM abuse. Sinnoh's level design really is the worst in the series, both before and since. I love open ended and complex design, and I find linearity without a point annoying, but this just sucks all of the fun out of exploring a world. That's why I think HG/SS is superior to Platinum. Sure, most of the routes were short, but all the annoying parts were side dungeons that you only put yourself through because you wanted to, not because you had to. And it added some true freedom, even if in just a small dose, allowing you to do gyms 5, 6, and 7 (and almost all of Kanto) in the order you wanted.

The icing (snow pun) on the cake is that when you get to Snowpoint, there's a ferry dock. Sure, it doesn't go back to the mainland, but it's almost like the Snowpoint citizens are saying "Wait, you WALKED here? Nobody does that, we all take the boat!"
 
Last edited:
I think a couple HM moves are actually useful for battles. Early game, having Rock Smash, a Fighting type move, can really help a lot. I've used it a lot for my teams, although it ends up getting replaced by Power-Up-Punch.
 
HelenTheHero said:
I think a couple HM moves are actually useful for battles. Early game, having Rock Smash, a Fighting type move, can really help a lot. I've used it a lot for my teams, although it ends up getting replaced by Power-Up-Punch.
Click to expand...
The problem mainly comes from them being undeletable until a (usually) late point in the game. I wouldn't mind giving my Grovyle or whatever Rock Smash for Wattson if it wasn't for the fact that the only way to delete it and not have it waste a move slot was to get more than halfway across the region to Lilycove.
 
HMs would be fine if they were better moves. Of course Surf and Waterfall are common moves (though Surf lost a good chunk of appeal with the introduction of Scald), Strength isn't terrible, and Fly isn't the worst move ever, but the rest?:
Cut: 50 BP, 95% isn't good for most of the game.
Flash: I can't name many who ever used this move outside of its field purpose. Other than me in my attempt to catch Terrakion in Black since I already had it with me.
Whirlpool: For the most part, trapping moves like this aren't very good outside Generation I, so this was a Generation too late (no pun intended).
Rock Smash: While a Fighting-type attack can be useful that early in the game, 40 BP usually gets outclassed shortly after obtaining it.
Dive: While it isn't a terrible move (especially since it received a buff in Generation IV), but is weaker and slower than another HM of the same
type and damage category.
Rock Climb: a more powerful, but less accurate Strength. Not needed.
Defog: While it finally has a use, it had virtually none in the only games it was a HM for and even if it always had that effect, it wouldn't be that useful in playthroughs (how often do you see Rapid Spin?), where HMs are actually used. Also, its field affect is a more tedious, inverted version of Flash: doesn't really hurt the overworld yet is needed to get through battles easier.

The lack of type variety and power really hurts HMs. If more were like Surf, Waterfall, and even Strength, we wouldn't mind HM moves as much.
 
Vader_the_White said:
HMs would be fine if they were better moves. Of course Surf and Waterfall are common moves (though Surf lost a good chunk of appeal with the introduction of Scald), Strength isn't terrible, and Fly isn't the worst move ever, but the rest?:
Cut: 50 BP, 95% isn't good for most of the game.
Flash: I can't name many who ever used this move outside of its field purpose. Other than me in my attempt to catch Terrakion in Black since I already had it with me.
Whirlpool: For the most part, trapping moves like this aren't very good outside Generation I, so this was a Generation too late (no pun intended).
Rock Smash: While a Fighting-type attack can be useful that early in the game, 40 BP usually gets outclassed shortly after obtaining it.
Dive: While it isn't a terrible move (especially since it received a buff in Generation IV), but is weaker and slower than another HM of the same
type and damage category.
Rock Climb: a more powerful, but less accurate Strength. Not needed.
Defog: While it finally has a use, it had virtually none in the only games it was a HM for and even if it always had that effect, it wouldn't be that useful in playthroughs (how often do you see Rapid Spin?), where HMs are actually used. Also, its field affect is a more tedious, inverted version of Flash: doesn't really hurt the overworld yet is needed to get through battles easier.

The lack of type variety and power really hurts HMs. If more were like Surf, Waterfall, and even Strength, we wouldn't mind HM moves as much.
Click to expand...

I still smh when I think about Cut; never was a good move to begin with, but now, even Tackle is a better move than it (more PP and better accuracy). HMs would be fine (and most of the moves would actually be good early on) if they were naturally deletable, but Game Freak seriously can't expect us to be stuck with a move that's even worse than Tackle until near the end of the game.
 
While some HM's are pretty nice (surf, waterfall, oops, that's it!) the problem is either that they're forced (which always triggers a knee-jerk "Don't tell me what to do!" reaction), that getting rid of them is hard, or they are poorly implemented.

On the last bit I mean in how they are used in the field. A lot of HM's are basically overglorified "key and lock puzzles." Take cut for example, the bush is the lock and "Cut" is the key. It looks more complicated than putting a key in a lock, but in reality they are about the same minus the visual. Most don't open new avenues of play or are used for puzzles, they are just to limit how far you can explore until you meet the game's checkpoints. Cut, Whirlpool, Rock Smash, Rock Climb, Flash, Defog, and even Waterfall all fall into this trap. It's just not very intuitive design, but it wants you to think that it is.

So having to have several of these "keys" taking up moveslots that I'd rather use on other moves, and having getting rid of them harder then it needs to be (even if the reason is to prevent "unwinable" situations), then yes I will be pretty sour on HM's.

I guess I just come more from the player reaction school of thought when it comes to design, that I can figure out for myself that I'm not ready for the area I'm in yet. So when I pick a fight with Littlefoot's undead mother in Xenoblade...

latest

That it's my fault for biting off more than I can chew rather than the game developers for putting her in the starting area.

Granted, this might not translate well into Pokemon (for one this example only works if the death or defeat penalty is rather painless), you guys do see where I'm coming from, right?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top