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Battle Spot Teambuilding Discussion & Help Thread (read post #453, page 19)
- Thread starter ethan06
- Start date
I'd say yes. I used to have a team with it. 100% accurate Dynamichpunch is great. Other than that it doesn't have many benefits, with less power and bulk(except maybe on the special side, but Def is more important.) It does have a little more Spe(base 55 vs 45,) and also won't miss with Stone Edge(though sadly that's the only other move that regularly benefits from No Guard.) Another thing is it has is Encore.
No Guard and Heavy Slam are the two big things. Other than that Conk does virtually everything better :(
Thats such a shame, I have been running the following team and Conkeldurr has been doing well, I just dont like Conkeldurr as a Pokemon so looking at possible alternatives (explains previous two questions)
Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Power-Up Punch
- Rock Slide
- Sucker Punch
Garchomp (M) @ Yache Berry
Ability: Rough Skin
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Rock Tomb
- Swords Dance
Conkeldurr (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 212 HP / 140 Atk / 36 Def / 116 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Ice Punch
- Knock Off
Gengar (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Focus Blast
- Will-O-Wisp
Thundurus @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 236 HP / 92 Def / 12 SpA / 124 SpD / 44 Spe
Calm Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunder Wave
- Nasty Plot
Suicune @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 44 SpA / 4 SpD / 12 Spe
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Toxic
- Rest
*updated
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A couple of suggestions:
- Don't run Fire Fang on Garchomp. Its only notable target is Ferrothorn and Scizor, and it's not even an OHKO. Your matchup against them is already fine, so why not go for a secondary STAB? I'd suggest Dual Chop, to break Sashes.
- Y u no HP Ice on Thund? You pretty much need it.
- Will-O-Wisp on a Sash, non-bulky Gar seems really sketchy to me. Since it's an offensive Gar, I'd just go for another coverage move.
That's all I've got for now. Other than that, could you explain your spreads? They look complicated.
Agree with all of this. Also want to add Thund is better off with a Bold nature if you want it bulky(I use Bold 252 HP/ 168 Def/ 20 SpD. T-Wave/ Volt Switch/ HP Ice/ Swagger with Lefties. Works great,) or a Timid for any kinda offensive set(maybe you can get away with Modest-idk.)
What's the Spe on Kang for? I just run 244 HP/ 252 HP/ 4 Def/ 4 SpD/ 4 Spe(leftover just for ties.) There aren't really any good benchmarks for it, I don't think, especially with Spe control.
Also, what are the funky EV spreads on Conk and Sui for?
Return on Kangaskhan is great in Ubers but not so much in BSS since you want to get max damage as possible so I recommend replacing it with Double Edge. Also, like 6tennis said, replace Fire Fang with Dual Chop on Garchomp. Add HP Ice over Focus Blast on Thundurus and remove Icy Wind from Gengar and add Focus blast. I definitely recommend adding Destiny Bond on Gengar over WoW. It's just too good to pass up. Suicune and Conkeldurr both look fine so I don't think any changes are needed there. Anyways, great team! If you need more help, visit the battle spot room on pokemon showdown. A lot of us hang out there and can help you out and have practice battles with you.
Thank you for the move suggestions, it is appreciated
Now at this point I would love to drop some Math and show that I really know what I am doing, however these sets have all been stolen from
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/s11-bss-japanese-team-translations.3553696/
And they have just been working for me, never considered changing them
Now at this point I would love to drop some Math and show that I really know what I am doing, however these sets have all been stolen from
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/s11-bss-japanese-team-translations.3553696/
And they have just been working for me, never considered changing them
I disagree, their matchup against Ferrothorn especially is terrible, and Scizor will be troublesome. You guys are also forgetting about Skarmory, who can be beaten by Thundurus but that's it. Fire Fang was a good choice but perhaps Fire Blast can work too (yes, even with a hindering nature like Jolly) as it gets the 2HKO on all of those things and ignores Iron Barbs / Rocky Helmet.
Icy Wind + Destiny Bond Sash Gengar is good. You can either use Dual STAB with it or drop either Shadow Ball or Sludge Bomb for Focus Blast. It's a pretty fun lead in my experience.
I don't really like Nasty Plot Thundurus being so slow, even with Thunder Wave, as it just gets outsped by so many things that it will usually just get outsped and beaten before it sweeps. I guess it's good for slower, defensive teams but eh.....
Icy Wind + Destiny Bond Sash Gengar is good. You can either use Dual STAB with it or drop either Shadow Ball or Sludge Bomb for Focus Blast. It's a pretty fun lead in my experience.
I don't really like Nasty Plot Thundurus being so slow, even with Thunder Wave, as it just gets outsped by so many things that it will usually just get outsped and beaten before it sweeps. I guess it's good for slower, defensive teams but eh.....
Since Fire Blast Chomp is ok with a hindering nature, does that mean you should never run Naive on Chomp?
Mega Chompy likes mixed natures to take advantage of Draco Meteor; does more than LO Chompy.
Regular Chompy, would use LO DM as its Dragon STAB to nail Hippowdon / Gliscor / (Mega) Salamence on the switchin / Lando-T / Slowbro / opposing TankChomp, and you'd need Naive + LO to achieve any respectable damage. Doesn't expand coverage much; Adamant Fire Blast will at worst 2HKO most anything you'd want to hit, and Aqua Tail / Surf hit the bulky Ground switchins.
Oh nah, if you can actually breed a 6IV Naive one (or 5IV without perfect SpD) then you should do that. I said it was fine because his was a shiny Jolly one so I'm sure he wouldn't want to not use it.
edit: Naive + Life Orb has a chance to OHKO both Ferro and Scizor (guaranteed on Scizor if it has a boring HP+Atk spread). But because Jolly non-Life Orb can still 2HKO the three targets (Ferro + Scizor + Skarm) I say it's fine.
Hi. I've been lurking Smogon for a few months now but decided to sign up and join in the discussion.
I've currently got a team I'm doing rather well with but could do with some advice concerning a few things, plus it's always nice to get helpful feedback from more experienced players. I've literally only just gotten into the competitive Pokemon scene, although have been playing since the good old red/blue days.
My current team:
I have to be careful with this team around greninja. In fact if I don't bring rotom-w or mawile I think greninja just sweeps me. Otherwise I've yet to have any serious trouble from any other pokemon, providing I bring in the right team.
Any thoughts on what I could change are appreciated. I do love to theory craft and spent years of my life doing so in World of Warcraft so figured I'd try my luck here.
I've currently got a team I'm doing rather well with but could do with some advice concerning a few things, plus it's always nice to get helpful feedback from more experienced players. I've literally only just gotten into the competitive Pokemon scene, although have been playing since the good old red/blue days.
My current team:
I have to be careful with this team around greninja. In fact if I don't bring rotom-w or mawile I think greninja just sweeps me. Otherwise I've yet to have any serious trouble from any other pokemon, providing I bring in the right team.
Any thoughts on what I could change are appreciated. I do love to theory craft and spent years of my life doing so in World of Warcraft so figured I'd try my luck here.
Drifblim @ Kee Berry
Ability: Unburden
Level: 50
EVs: 196 HP / 252 Def / 60 Spe
Impish Nature
- Minimize
- Baton Pass
- Acrobatics
- Will-O-Wisp
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Magma Storm
- Toxic
- Earth Power
- Protect
Venusaur-Mega @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Leech Seed
- Synthesis
Mamoswine @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Thick Fat
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Fissure
Aggron-Mega @ Aggronite
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 188 Def / 68 SpD
- Ice Punch
- Stealth Rock
- Roar
- Heavy Slam
This is a strange team I made. I started with CM Cress, but for whatever reason I decided to get rid of her. I'm now trying to think of a sixth Poke. I feel like Rotom-W would be good as I have grass covered many times over, and it deals with Thundurus and is another answer to Megamence and Talon, which trouble my mega. Unfortunately Rotom doesn't learn any set up moves, so it's not as nice for being a Mini Pass receiver. I'm also just not a fan of Rotom-W in general, as it's not that fast, not terribly bulky with a base 50 HP and no reliable recovery, and not that strong, really(Porygon2 has only 1 less base SpA, and it's a defensive mon with Recover.) I think Rotom-H might be better than W. It resists electric and grass, which makes it better vs. Thundy. That said I prefer Hydro Pump over Overheat, since I already have fire coverage and Hydro Pump wrecks Mamo, which W gets a free switch on(H has to be wary of Rock moves.) a Being weak to water is also kinda gross since I pick Heatran for a battle a lot, so I'd rather my sixth slot synergize with it.
Help with sets would also be appreciated. I feel like I should forego Volt Switch in case Rotom is my BP receiver, though it's a really nice move so idk. If I don't run it I think Discharge>T-Bolt, so I have another status to spread if I don't wanna burn the foe. Other than that maybe Reflect, and the obligatory STAB? Reflect eases set up for Drif, and has other benefits as well. For instance, max Atk Megamence's EQ is a possible 8HKO on Mega Aggron(Pretty excessive, even without Reflect I can set up rocks on Mence no problem. But that bulk...worth sharing IMO.)
Also, could anyone explain to me why Rotom forms so rarely use Hex(.4ish%.) I mean it's certainly not that great, not getting STAB. But since they're often gonna status stuff, why not? Probably a dum question.
Is there anything I should change about the Pokes I have now? They've worked pretty well(except Aggron which I haven't used yet, at least in BSS. Used a very specialized mixed one in the Battle Maison meant to be a receiver of CMs from Sylveon a while ago,) even Drifblim which is the most iffy looking Poke. many Kang can't hit it, so it gets free set up on it. Even those with Ice Punch won't OHKO, and trigger Kee and Unburden. Chomp is only 3-4HKOing, factoring in Kee after the first hit, unless it's boosted or CB. Free switch on EQ, then burn/set up on it. Other stuff typically safe to set up on is Blaziken(Just gonna get 1 Minimize off tho most of the time,) Excadrill, Talonflame(sorta, if not Taunt,) Mega Mawile(have a burn,) and Landog.
Ability: Unburden
Level: 50
EVs: 196 HP / 252 Def / 60 Spe
Impish Nature
- Minimize
- Baton Pass
- Acrobatics
- Will-O-Wisp
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Magma Storm
- Toxic
- Earth Power
- Protect
Venusaur-Mega @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Leech Seed
- Synthesis
Mamoswine @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Thick Fat
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Fissure
Aggron-Mega @ Aggronite
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 188 Def / 68 SpD
- Ice Punch
- Stealth Rock
- Roar
- Heavy Slam
This is a strange team I made. I started with CM Cress, but for whatever reason I decided to get rid of her. I'm now trying to think of a sixth Poke. I feel like Rotom-W would be good as I have grass covered many times over, and it deals with Thundurus and is another answer to Megamence and Talon, which trouble my mega. Unfortunately Rotom doesn't learn any set up moves, so it's not as nice for being a Mini Pass receiver. I'm also just not a fan of Rotom-W in general, as it's not that fast, not terribly bulky with a base 50 HP and no reliable recovery, and not that strong, really(Porygon2 has only 1 less base SpA, and it's a defensive mon with Recover.) I think Rotom-H might be better than W. It resists electric and grass, which makes it better vs. Thundy. That said I prefer Hydro Pump over Overheat, since I already have fire coverage and Hydro Pump wrecks Mamo, which W gets a free switch on(H has to be wary of Rock moves.) a Being weak to water is also kinda gross since I pick Heatran for a battle a lot, so I'd rather my sixth slot synergize with it.
Help with sets would also be appreciated. I feel like I should forego Volt Switch in case Rotom is my BP receiver, though it's a really nice move so idk. If I don't run it I think Discharge>T-Bolt, so I have another status to spread if I don't wanna burn the foe. Other than that maybe Reflect, and the obligatory STAB? Reflect eases set up for Drif, and has other benefits as well. For instance, max Atk Megamence's EQ is a possible 8HKO on Mega Aggron(Pretty excessive, even without Reflect I can set up rocks on Mence no problem. But that bulk...worth sharing IMO.)
Also, could anyone explain to me why Rotom forms so rarely use Hex(.4ish%.) I mean it's certainly not that great, not getting STAB. But since they're often gonna status stuff, why not? Probably a dum question.
Is there anything I should change about the Pokes I have now? They've worked pretty well(except Aggron which I haven't used yet, at least in BSS. Used a very specialized mixed one in the Battle Maison meant to be a receiver of CMs from Sylveon a while ago,) even Drifblim which is the most iffy looking Poke. many Kang can't hit it, so it gets free set up on it. Even those with Ice Punch won't OHKO, and trigger Kee and Unburden. Chomp is only 3-4HKOing, factoring in Kee after the first hit, unless it's boosted or CB. Free switch on EQ, then burn/set up on it. Other stuff typically safe to set up on is Blaziken(Just gonna get 1 Minimize off tho most of the time,) Excadrill, Talonflame(sorta, if not Taunt,) Mega Mawile(have a burn,) and Landog.
This team is pretty solid and I really like Band Garchomp. I would actually recommend Sitrus Berry over Leftovers on Rotom-W though, it's not the kind of Pokemon that's going to be strictly walling things thanks to its lack of reliable recovery and its low HP means that the Sitrus Berry has more useful providing immediate healing that Rotom-W wants (also generally Sitrus > Leftovers in 3v3, but not always). It also lets Rotom-W function as an emergency check to Kangaskhan so that you can burn it since Sitrus activates after the first hit. Thunderbolt could be used over Pain Split by similar reasoning, finding an opportunity to Pain Split is hard and having the stronger Electric STAB for times when you don't want to Volt Switch out is useful. Thunder Wave is perfectly fine if you want the dual status though and can give Band Chomp an easier time cleaning late-game. Alternatively you can opt for Chesto Berry with Rest but I don't think you really need that on your team.
HP Fire Latios isn't super common, Thunderbolt and Surf are usually better picks so you don't need to risk the HP Fire Speed drop if you don't want it. That being said your team doesn't really have a good answer to opposing Ferrothorn other than hoping Garchomp can bully it. You can consider Conkeldurr somewhere which does a good job of checking Greninja and Ferrothorn, and you have a Talonflame check and Psychic check to support it, but it does make your team much slower overall (which isn't necessarily a bad thing). If you do run Conkeldurr I'd definitely go with Thunder Wave on Rotom-W though since your team definitely would appreciate the paralysis support.
Ah I hadn't thought of Sitrus berry. I think that's a much better idea on Rotom-W, as the only time leftovers wins is if I also have it working in tandem with Leech seed and that is usually a rare situation. I think replacing painsplit with thunderbolt is definitely a decent option (especially with the sitrus berry) and I'll give that a try. I too thought about rest/chesto but it didn't seem to fit well and the fast paced meta usually doesn't allow for it.
I'm wondering also if latios really needs roost? Is it a necessity? I was actually considering swapping it out for another coverage move. I'm guessing it's only there in case of stall teams but to be honest toxic makes it a little pointless.
Thanks for your help.
Yeah I'm not sure what I can do against Ferrothorn. The only thing I can afford to swap out is mega kang, though ironically if there's no mega kang then they're very unlikely to ever send out a ferrothorn surely?
What other mega could I use, other than kanga, that would be a perfect threat against ferrothorn and at the same time not have the same weaknesses as the rest of my team. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is mega salamence.
Hey, so I am running a Special tank Lapras right now and have it holding shell bell, but I am wondering if it would be more effective with the eviolite. 252Hp/252SpDef/8SpAtk
Rest
Snore
Hydro Pump
Ice beam
Item:Shell Bell
Nature:Modest
Ability: Shell Armor
Rest
Snore
Hydro Pump
Ice beam
Item:Shell Bell
Nature:Modest
Ability: Shell Armor
Shell bell isn't really a great item and Eviolite only raises the special defense and defense of pokemon who can still evolve. Also, that lapras set needs a lot of work. The best set for it is bold 252 hp 252 defense assault vest with Sheer Cold, Freeze Dry, Ice Shard and Hydro Pump. It looks like you're quite new to the meta so I recommend visiting the battle spot room on pokemon showdown. A lot of us there can help you teambuild and have practice battles with you. Hope to see you there! :)
Non bulky Latios doesn't need Roost, in fact I'd recommend not having it, except maybe if it was being used to set screens, and probably not even then since it'd want a STAB and Memento. HP Ice Blaziken seems like a mega that handles Kang and Mence. Mega Lopunny outspeeds them both and OHKOs Kang. Megamence is unlikely to be OHKOd by Jolly Ice Punch, but you could have Fake Out to soften it up for the OHKO first. Mega Aggron takes relatively low damage from them both with ridiculous physical bulk and Filter, and can always 2HKO Megamence at worst(244+Atk has a 68.8% chance to OHKO 4/0 Megamence.) Most Megamence don't have a Dragon STAB, so running your own with Draco Meteor/Outrage could surprise it, and you only fear Ice Punch from Kang which isn't too common.
Thanks! I am new to the meta. Ill take your reccomendations :)
I want to make a setup for Floette because its one of my favorite generation 6 pokemon but I cant find a setup for it. Do any of you use one? If so please tell me your setup!
I'd advise lurking a bit here friend
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You don't need to double post.
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Floette wouldn't be legal in LC cause it's evolved.
Interesting Poke to be one of your favorites Zeke_Squad, middle evos don't get much love. If they ever release Floette eternal and don't ban it you're in business, otherwise stay away from Floette.
Aye I thought as much. I like the idea of blaziken, another mon that could sweep on its own if not checked. I'm going to try and test between blaziken/salamence and see which I prefer.
Thanks.