Xerneas (Choice Specs)

Fireburn

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[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Moonblast
move 2: Hidden Power Fire / Focus Blast
move 3: Grass Knot / Thunder
move 4: Psyshock / Aromatherapy
item: Choice Specs
ability: Fairy Aura
nature: Modest
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Though Xerneas's power after a Geomancy is frightening, the move can make Xerneas somewhat inflexible, as it only gets one chance to set up. Choice Specs allows Xerneas to retain a large degree of raw strength while making it more flexible as a hole puncher in the early- and mid-game. Moonblast becomes incredibly strong after Choice Specs, boasting enough power to 3HKO support Primal Groudon and nearly 2HKO Klefki, two of the most common switch-ins to Xerneas. Even Ho-Oh and Lugia are 2HKOed by Moonblast after Stealth Rock damage, making only Blissey and very bulky Steel-types safe from Xerneas's rampage. Hidden Power Fire cannot hurt Primal Groudon, but when compared to the alternative, Focus Blast, it keeps the same KOs against Ferrothorn and Klefki with better accuracy, destroys Mega Scizor, and can also be used to 3HKO very bulky Steel-types such as Aegislash, Bronzong, and defensive Jirachi. Focus Blast gives Xerneas an alternative weapon against Steel-types, decimating Ferrothorn and Excadrill and 2HKOing Klefki after Stealth Rock damage. Focus Blast even has about an 80% chance to 2HKO support Primal Groudon after Stealth Rock damage, though repeated Moonblasts will usually be sufficient to wear it down. Grass Knot gives Xerneas an accurate move for hitting Primal Groudon hard, doing as much damage as Focus Blast would. It also OHKOes Arceus formes that are weak to Grass-type moves after Stealth Rock damage. On the other hand, Thunder allows Xerneas to OHKO Ho-Oh after Stealth Rock damage and 2HKO Lugia through Multiscale while also allowing for a slightly stronger hit than Moonblast against Primal Kyogre. The last moves worth considering are Aromatherapy and Psyshock. Aromatherapy can let Xerneas support its team by clearing status, though most of the time it is better off attacking. Psyshock is Xerneas's best weapon against Blissey, 2HKOing it after Stealth Rock damage. It also does more damage to Ho-Oh than Moonblast.

Sleep Talk deserves a special mention, as it allows Xerneas to switch into Darkrai that lack Sludge Bomb fearlessly and potentially bluff a Choice Scarf set, allowing it to then KO Darkrai next turn or force it out; however, it can only do this once, as a Life Orb boosted Thunder from Darkrai will KO Xerneas after Bad Dreams damage. A smart opponent will also do damage calculations against whatever comes in to check what item Xerneas is holding, essentially preventing you from bluffing the item more than once. It should be noted that if Sleep Talk is used, the moveset should consist purely of Moonblast and Sleep Talk to ensure Moonblast will always be used whenever Xerneas is asleep.

Set Details
========

A simple spread of 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe works here, as maximum Speed allows Xerneas to outspeed standard support Arceus formes, most Lugia sets, and any other Pokemon using a neutral nature below the 100 Speed tier.

Usage Tips
========

Bring Xerneas in on something it can force to switch out and click Moonblast — it does a lot of damage even to Pokemon that resist it, so don't be afraid to spam it. Coverage moves are fine to use to try and snipe a certain switch-in, but caution should be exercised because Xerneas's coverage moves are either inaccurate or weak against neutral targets. Focus Blast and Thunder also give free turns to Mega Gengar and Primal Groudon, respectively, both dangerous foes against which you never usually want to do so. Try to get Stealth Rock up before unleashing Xerneas — it greatly inhibits Pokemon such as Ho-Oh and Lugia that would otherwise be able to switch in comfortably.

Team Options
========

Xerneas requires Stealth Rock support to keep Ho-Oh at bay and secure certain KOs. Primal Groudon is the best user of Stealth Rock in the metagame, though Tyranitar, Dialga, Bronzong, and Deoxys formes also make good options. Even with Stealth Rock, however, reliable switch-ins to Ho-Oh such as Water Arceus, Rock Arceus, and Refresh Mega Salamence are good partners. Powerful Fire-types such as Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh also make excellent partners to deal with Blissey and bulky Steel-types that can wall Xerneas. Knock Off Yveltal specifically makes for a good partner to ease with opposing Ho-Oh, Blissey, and Klefki. It also checks every defensive Steel-type that would switch into Xerneas. Lures such as Hidden Power Fire Latios and trappers such as Mega Gengar also make good alternative ways to deal with Steel-types.

Choice Specs Xerneas is very efficient at wearing down Primal Groudon, so Pokemon that appreciate Primal Groudon weakened or KOed make fine teammates. Primal Kyogre is the most notable of these, as with Primal Groudon gone it can spam rain-boosted STAB Water-type attacks with near impunity. The list is quite extensive — Mega Salamence, Mega Gengar, Mewtwo, Mega Tyranitar, and Calm Mind Rock Arceus all greatly appreciate having Primal Groudon taken down early. These Pokemon can also all help weaken Steel-types for Xerneas to break past later on.
 
[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Moonblast
move 2: Focus Blast
move 3: Thunder
move 4: Aromatherapy
item: Choice Specs
ability: Levitate
nature: Modest
evs: 80 Def / 240 SpA / 188 Spe
CKIKVCTVAAAiiq4.jpg
 
u should probably explain when or why u would ever use this over standard geo. very good partner to stuff like kyogre e.g.

1/3
 
item bluffs, yo

i wouldnt be surprised if a set with just sleep talk + moonblast works here cause switching xern into dark void will 100% scare darkrai out

the rest is cool

QC 2/3
 
Here's what all coverage options can do.

Focus Blast
- 82% 2HKO 252+ P Don (SR)
- 2HKO Klefki
- 6.3% OHKO Ferrothorn (SR)
- 81% OHKO 0 HP EKiller
- 75% OHKO 248 HP EKiller (SR)
- OHKO Excadrill
- 24% 2HKO Blissey (SR)

Thunder
- 77% min 0 HP Ho-Oh
- 2HKO bulky Ho-Oh
- usually 2HKO Lugia despite Multiscale
- 65% min to P Ogre (10% more than Moonblast)

HP Rock
- 6% OHKO 0 HP Ho-Oh

HP Fire
- Same calcs as Focus Blast against Klefki and Ferrothorn but with better accuracy
- 3HKO support Jirachi and Bronzong
- OHKO Mega Scizor and Forry
- 3HKO Aegislash

Psyshock
- 2HKO Blissey (SR)
- 38% OHKO 0 HP Ho-Oh (SR)
- 2HKO Arc Poison

Grass Knot
- 82% 2HKO 252+ P Don (SR) but with better accuracy
- 71% min to P Ogre (16% more than Moonblast)
- 100% OHKO Arc Ground (SR)
- 69% OHKO Arc Water and Arc Rock (SR)

Aroma / Sleep Talk + Moonblast

HP Fire + Grass Knot + Psyshock actually gets you pretty good coverage with consistent moves. You only really miss out on Lugia (which you 2HKO with Moonblast if multi is gone). If you run Aroma you're limited to two moves, which you can condense to Focus Blast and Thunder. The Sleep Talk Choice Scarf bluff against Darkrai will only work once, but that might be all you need.
 
I'm not QC or anything, but wouldn't Sleep Talk or Grass Knot be better than Aromatherapy in the 4th slot? Sleep Talk lets you switch into Darkrai that lack Sludge Bomb, while Grass Knot 2HKOes Rockceus, Waterceus and Primal Groudon without risking a miss.
 
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Really think the slashing should be:

move 1: Moonblast
move 2: Hidden Power Fire / Focus Blast
move 3: Grass Knot / Thunder
move 4: Psyshock / Aromatherapy

with Sleep Talk in moves. You can only bluff as a Darkrai check once because the damage output makes it apparent that you are Specs. Still useful but I don't think most teams really need this niche utility. You might even want to only run Moonblast + Sleep Talk in which case the current slashing doesn't make sense. HP Fire + Grass Knot + Psyshock is the most efficient and reliable coverage. Thunder + Focus Blast is the most efficient with only two coverage moves which lets you opt for Aroma.

Thoughts?
 
Just dropping an alert for fireburn - minority's slashing is ok but the way its currently done is also usable. hard choice.
Sleep Talk allows Xerneas to switch into Darkrai that lack Sludge Bomb fearlessly and then
1.0
it next turn, though it can only do this once as a boosted Life Orb Thunder from Darkrai will
1.0
Xerneas after Bad Dreams damage.
i feel like this missed the point as theres no mention of it bluffing scarf and forcing a smart darkrai out. the second part is true though. unless this isnt allowed in analyses or something? sadly i cant 3/3 this so hopefully someone else can do it.
 
I went building and playing with with this thing today and all I comfirmed move-wise is that every move other than moonblast is extremely arbitrary. I was even debating running just sleep talk + moonblast on this thing due to how much risk there is when using any other move. The only two things you let in that can really shrug off a moonblast and heal through it are rest don, specially defensive skarm (sorta), and ho-oh (and lugia with multiscale active to an extent).

I would say sleep talk should stay somewhere on the set just because this thing does nasty things to teams when paired with thunder wave ho-oh and its moves (mosty moonblast) are powerful enough to keep threats from setting up while it is out and sleeping. Hidden powers of any kind sit in a bad place with me, mostly because they turn one of your potential 33% sleep talk rolls into something any sweeper (bar sd scizor lol) can take advantage of. Focus blast and thunder share similar issues in the form of very common and deadly resistances, but aren't as bad due to them all having a meaty chance to hit and still do loads of damage to non-resists. Grass Knot I am not sure bcause it feels useless and has way to much risk involved with it in my opinion. This kind of brings me back to the point where I say I hardly ever want to click anything but moonblast and the rest of the moves just feel like the only purpose they serve is being bad for sleep talk rolls. Now, I haven't tried this xern with no moves outside of sleep talk and moonblast, but the more I use the one with reletively arbitary coverage moves, the more appealing the set becomes to me. I also have yet to build on the kyogre side of things, so stay tuned.

These are just my thoughts on its slashing in general from experience. I will probably post more about it tonight when I have tried coverage-less sleep talk and specs xern on a kyogre build.
 
because they turn one of your potential 33% sleep talk rolls into something any sweeper... can take advantage of.
Pretty much confirmed why I don't want Sleep Talk slashed on the set with coverage moves and instead want it in moves mentions as run ST + Moonblast only.

Obviously you're p much always just clicking Moonblast with this set, but the fact is that Xern has those 3 extra moves and filling them out comes at zero opportunity cost unless you are running Sleep Talk. Late game situations will appear where having one of those other 3 moves pays. It can even pay off in the middle of a game against teams that lean passive because you can intermediately wall break something that can take the Moonblast but not the coverage (Blissey, defensive Steel-types, SpD P Don, etc.). The slashing I already provided maximizes your ability to reap benefit in both these situations.
 
I guess what I am getting at is that sleep talk on this xerneas means ho-oh doesn't have to run it, freeing it up to use the twave recover set. This feels more useful and any coverage move on xerneas so far, but it still may need them somewhere. We shall see.
 
IMO Moonblast + Sleep Talk is just as good as the listed set (obviously keeping SR up or at least making strong doubles is crucial in Ho-Oh match-ups). I /guess/ i'm OK with the listed get with Sleep Talk unslashed, so long mb / sleep talk gets a STRONG mention in moves.

I'll QC approve this once Fireburn and co. finalize this sleep talk discussion.
 
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first we need a fireburn response :(

i think going with minority's slashing and then having a good explanation behind sleep talk and how it should be used as a duo w/ moonblast (maybe advocate it as the standard in some way? idk how i feel about it) in the write up is the best of both worlds.
 
first we need a fireburn response :(

My bad, I legitimately wasn't sure what to do with the slashing since you spam Moonblast like 99% percent of the time this thing enters battle.

I'll just go with Minority's slashing and then give a paragraph in moves discussing the merits of Moonblast + Sleep Talk
 
Grass Knot gives Xerneas an accurate move for hitting Primal Groudon hard, doing as much damage as Focus Blast would. On the other hand, Thunder allows Xerneas to OHKO Ho-Oh after Stealth Rock damage and 2HKO Lugia through Multiscale, while also allowing for a slightly stronger hit against Primal Kyogre than Moonblast. It also OHKOes Arceus formes that are weak to Grass after Stealth Rock damage.
The last sentence in this quote should be right after the first sentence. For the Psyshock description I would mention that it hits Ho-Oh harder than Moonblast.

Under set details I'd mention a spread that is just 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe.

For team options I'd mention Ho-Oh, Knock Off Yveltal, and Mega Gengar as teammates.

Looks pretty good otherwise qc 3/3

1MLUEPd.gif
 
remove add / fix (comments); (AC=add comma; RC=remove comma; SC=semicolon)
GP 1/2
[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Moonblast
move 2: Hidden Power Fire / Focus Blast
move 3: Grass Knot / Thunder
move 4: Psyshock / Aromatherapy
item: Choice Specs
ability: Fairy Aura
nature: Modest
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Though Xerneas's power after a Geomancy is infamous frightening, (that's literally not what infamous means) it the move can make Xerneas somewhat inflexible, (AC) since it only gets one chance to set up. Choice Specs allows Xerneas to retain a large degree of raw strength while making it more flexible as a hole puncher in the early- (AH) and mid-game. Moonblast becomes sickeningly strong after Choice Specs, boasting enough power to 3HKO support Primal Groudon and nearly 2HKO Klefki, two of the most common switch-ins into Xerneas. Even Ho-Oh and Lugia are 2HKOed by Moonblast after Stealth Rock damage, making only Blissey and very bulky Steel-types safe from Xerneas's rampage. Hidden Power Fire cannot hurt Primal Groudon, but when compared to the alternative, Focus Blast, it keeps the same KOes KOs against Ferrothorn and Klefki with better accuracy, destroys Mega Scizor, and can also be used to 3HKO very bulky Steel-types such as Aegislash, Bronzong, and defensive Jirachi. Focus Blast gives Xerneas an alternative weapon against Steel-types, destroying Ferrothorn and Excadrill and 2HKOing Klefki after Stealth Rock damage. Focus Blast even has about an 80% chance to 2HKO support Primal Groudon after Stealth Rock damage, though repeated Moonblasts will usually be sufficient to wear it down. Grass Knot gives Xerneas an accurate move for hitting Primal Groudon hard, doing as much damage as Focus Blast would. It also OHKOes Arceus formes that are weak to Grass after Stealth Rock damage. On the other hand, Thunder allows Xerneas to OHKO Ho-Oh after Stealth Rock damage and 2HKO Lugia through Multiscale (RC) while also allowing for a slightly stronger hit against Primal Kyogre than Moonblast. The last moves worth considering are Aromatherapy or and Psyshock. Aromatherapy can let Xerneas support its team by clearing status, though most of the time it is better off attacking. Psyshock is Xerneas's best weapon against Blissey, 2HKOing it after Stealth Rock damage, though it has little use besides.

Sleep Talk deserves a special mention, as it allows Xerneas to switch into Darkrai that lack Sludge Bomb fearlessly and potentially bluff a Choice Scarf set, allowing it to then KO Darkrai next turn or force it out; (SC) though however, (AC) it can only do this once, (AC) as a boosted Life Orb Thunder from Darkrai will KO Xerneas after Bad Dreams damage. A smart opponent will also do damage calculations against whatever comes in to check what item Xerneas is holding, essentially only being able to preventing you from bluffing the item more than once. It should be noted that if Sleep Talk is used, then the moveset should consist purely of Moonblast and Sleep Talk, to ensure Moonblast will always be used whenever Xerneas is asleep.

Set Details
========

A simple spread of 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe works here, as maximum Speed allows Xerneas to outspeed standard support Arceus formes, most Lugia sets, and anything below the 100 Speed tier.

Usage Tips
========

Bring Xerneas in on something it can force to switch out and click Moonblast—it does a log lot of damage even to resistances Pokemon that resist it, so don't be afraid to spam it. Coverage moves are fine to use to try and snipe a certain switch-in, but caution should be exercised as because Xerneas's coverage moves are either inaccurate or weak against neutral targets. Focus Blast and Thunder also give free turns to Mega Gengar and Primal Groudon, (AC) respectively, both dangerous foes against which you never usually want to give up free turns do so. Try to get Stealth Rock up before unleashing Xerneas—it greatly inhibits Pokemon such as Ho-Oh and Lugia that would otherwise be able to switch in comfortably.

Team Options
========

Xerneas requires Stealth Rock support to keep Ho-Oh at bay and secure certain KOes KOs. Primal Groudon is the best user of Stealth Rock in the metagame, though Tyranitar, Dialga, Bronzong, and Deoxys formes also make good alternative users of Stealth Rock options. Even with Stealth Rock, (AC) however, reliable switch-ins (AH) to Ho-Oh such as Water Arceus, Rock Arceus, and Refresh Mega Salamence are good partners. Powerful Fire-types such as Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh also make excellent partners to deal with Blissey and bulky Steel-types that can wall Xerneas. Knock Off Yveltal specifically makes for a good partner to ease with opposing Ho-Oh, Blissey, and Klefki. Yveltal It also checks every defensive Steel-type that would switch into Xerneas. Lures such as Hidden Power Fire Latios and trappers such as Mega Gengar also make good alternative ways to deal with Steel-types.

Choice Specs Xerneas is very efficient at wearing down Primal Groudon, so teammates that appreciate Primal Groudon weakened or KOed make fine teammates. Primal Kyogre is the most notable of these, as with Primal Groudon gone it can spam rain-boosted STAB Water-type attacks with near impunity. The list is quite extensive—Mega Salamence, Mega Gengar, Mewtwo, Mega Tyranitar, and Calm Mind Rock Arceus all greatly appreciate having Primal Groudon taken down early by Xerneas. These Pokemon can also all help weaken Steel-types for Xerneas to break past later on.
TwCg56t.gif
 
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