Serious US Election Thread (read post #2014)

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Bernie Sanders is objectively the best candidate whereas Donald Trump is a question mark. He flip-flops every second to see what sticks on the wall. I have not watched all of the Republican debates but a personally memorable example of this is revealed in Trump's approach to foreign policy in the Middle East, which have been laid out over the course of said debates.

One moment he says that he would establish non-interventionist policies to avoid involvements in quagmires, a lesson we should have learned from Iraq just a decade ago, and to cut our grossly overexpensive military spending to instead fund areas like social welfare, education, and the rebuilding of our infrastructure back at home. This is a position I agree with Trump on.

Yet, the next moment, he would say that, not only should we fight a "politically incorrect" war with ISIS, we should in fact be targetting their families, too; that casualties of innocent civilians should be overlooked, and that we should continue to torture even if it has been proven to be ineffective. I, for one, happen to disagree with this perspective.

The way I view it, though, I perceive all of his flowery rhetoric to be nothing more than a façade; an appeal to the people of our country in a way that would secure him the presidency. This is the same with Hillary Clinton (whom rarely discusses actual substantive policy positions), but the sole fact that Trump is able to speak the truth a portion of the time lends me enough confidence to entrust him in the White House, at least over Clinton, and indeed, poll after poll suggest strongly that such sentiment is popular to an extent where Trump would easily win against Clinton in a general election. This is compounded by negative connotations associated with Clinton, such as with her ties to Wall Street and pathetic approach in regulating the very behavior that landed us in the 2008 subprime mortgage crisis (Dodd Frank? Seriously? And she doesn't even have the competence to tell us she'd reinstate Glass-Steagall, haha), as well as general dishonesty...not only the email scandal, which will prove increasingly troublesome in the coming months, but she has been exposed as a try-hard politician comfortable with lying to any group of people to gain votes to a point where no one believes a word that comes out of her mouth anymore.

I would rather elect a broken clock that is correct twice a day than a corporate shill of a clock that would unquestionably refuse to make any progress to help the average American over her campaign contributers and bring us closer to WWIII.

In my opinion.

Edit: also, JES hit the nail on its head; pulling money out of politics would greatly benefit the representation of the average American in our nation, the inequality has advanced to a point where I no longer consider the United States to be a democracy, but an oligarchy.
 
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I currently support Bernie, and if Clinton wins the nomination over him I will support her.

Clinton may be sketchy, but Trump or Cruz will destroy the country. Both of them will bring the persecution of LGBT+, women, Muslims, and other minorities, and this is as far from the direction the country needs to go as possible. I also legitimately believe the entire planet will be in danger if Trump is given access to the United States' military.

Sure, Trump or Cruz may "occasionally tell the truth" or whatever, but they will also put millions of lives and livelihoods at risk, and that is absolutely unacceptable to me.
 
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Nah a Trump nomination is far more likely than Bernie catching up. Cruz would have to start radically outperforming how he has done so far in a map that's less friendly to him than the states he has won. Otherwise even if Trump doesn't get to 1,237, he'll be so close that he'll get there anyway. Many states release delegates who were pledged to candidates that later dropped out i.e. Carson, Rubio, etc. Some of these will go Trump's way. Some other delegates are unpledged and will go for Trump as well. He's very nearly got it locked up. It would take a very, very concerted effort on the part of the national party to deny him the nomination, which they have shown no capability to do yet.

Bernie on the other hand has a ton of ground to make up because the Democratic nomination is done proportionally. He'd have to win all the remaining delegates, and therefore more or less the votes, by something like a 58-42 margin in order to catch Hillary in pledged delegates, iirc. So far it's been something like 56-44 in Hillary's favor in terms of delegates. That's a 14 point swing - aka a metric fuckton in a race that has been very stable and hasn't seen shifts with candidates dropping out. And it's actually even more than 14 points because Bernie has done better on average in smaller states with caucuses as opposed to larger states with primaries, and so that means Hillary as a weighted average of votes has probably won at least 60% of the cast ballots... It's really grim for Bernie. There's an outside chance, still, of course. But it would take a very major shift in how the Democratic electorate sees the two candidates.
 
Trump is against outsourced labour, the TPP and globalist policies in general. They're extremely damaging positions for the corporate elite. And he repeatedly called out big donors, I don't know what you're talking about.

1. Could you explain why a conservative Supreme Court would be bad? 2. Because they wouldn't encourage a gun grabbing frenzy?

1. Perhaps the largest issue is conservative ideals are antagonistic to protecting the rights of minorities. I'd rather not see recent progress in this area stagnate or go backwards. Ensuring equal treatment of individuals under the law is required regardless of political affiliation, and leaving it to states is a terrible thing (e.g., North Carolina passed an anti-LGBT/anti-veteran/anti-worker-in-general bill for irrational and absurd reasons that also restricts local municipalities from enshrining more protections than the state does). There are issues facing many minority demographics (LGBT, women, non-white races, etc) that need much improvement, and poor choices in the various branches of government can have disastrous results.

Other issues include more destructive rulings on financial legislation and regulation, privacy and other ensured rights, and social services (such as healthcare).

2. Loaded questions are a terrible thing, don't you know?
 
I'm very interested to see what Trump's position ends up becoming upon his nomination (which is the most likely outcome at this point). His campaign has been based off of getting the most attention and best ratings from his potential voters, which, at this point, is entirely conservative. In the general election, if he wants any chance of winning he needs to shift some of his viewpoints back to the left in order to court undecided swing voters in states like Ohio, Florida, Nevada, etc.

At this point, a Clinton nomination is nigh inevitable (Sorry Sanders, young white college voters won't carry you to the nomination, considering most primaries will take place during the college school year), and if it's Clinton vs Trump, most likely Clinton would win, considering Trump's high unfavorably ratings among minority groups and women nationally. To be honest, the only real reason why we're talking about a Trump nomination is due to the Media's extensive coverage of him (Seriously, millions of free advertising towards him via constant coverage. It's actually impossible to watch any major news network for 15 minutes without at least 1 Trump mention.) It all started when he had a surprising 20% lead against the 15 other candidates, from a hardcore grassroots movement. Eventually, as candidates dropped out, undecided voters heard the flood of Trump propaganda and his fiery, charismatic rhetoric and were swayed. Wow, I'm really starting to rant.

Anyway, tl;dr it's gna be Clinton v. Trump and Clinton's gna win because all of the minorities/women hate Trump.
 
I'm very interested to see what Trump's position ends up becoming upon his nomination (which is the most likely outcome at this point). His campaign has been based off of getting the most attention and best ratings from his potential voters, which, at this point, is entirely conservative. In the general election, if he wants any chance of winning he needs to shift some of his viewpoints back to the left in order to court undecided swing voters in states like Ohio, Florida, Nevada, etc.

At this point, a Clinton nomination is nigh inevitable (Sorry Sanders, young white college voters won't carry you to the nomination, considering most primaries will take place during the college school year), and if it's Clinton vs Trump, most likely Clinton would win, considering Trump's high unfavorably ratings among minority groups and women nationally. To be honest, the only real reason why we're talking about a Trump nomination is due to the Media's extensive coverage of him (Seriously, millions of free advertising towards him via constant coverage. It's actually impossible to watch any major news network for 15 minutes without at least 1 Trump mention.) It all started when he had a surprising 20% lead against the 15 other candidates, from a hardcore grassroots movement. Eventually, as candidates dropped out, undecided voters heard the flood of Trump propaganda and his fiery, charismatic rhetoric and were swayed. Wow, I'm really starting to rant.

Anyway, tl;dr it's gna be Clinton v. Trump and Clinton's gna win because all of the minorities/women hate Trump.

I hope your right. At this point, that is the best possible outcome IMO under the circumstances. Sorry Trump fans, he is just to aggressive and to the right for my tastes.
 
The way I view it, though, I perceive all of his flowery rhetoric to be nothing more than a façade; an appeal to the people of our country in a way that would secure him the presidency. This is the same with Hillary Clinton (whom rarely discusses actual substantive policy positions)

Sorry for quasi- double post but I felt like I needed to call you out on this. Please provide some evidence to back up this statement, because to me it seems like Bernie is the one who needs to discuss his policy decisions. He is basically to me a single-issue candidate; last debate 75-80% of his arguments were against the Wall St. billionaires (Don't get me wrong, this is a problem, but there are a multitude of issues facing the US, not just Wall St.) On the other hand, Hillary is well-versed and experienced in all policy issues, and overall seems like the stronger candidate.
 
Sorry for quasi- double post but I felt like I needed to call you out on this. Please provide some evidence to back up this statement, because to me it seems like Bernie is the one who needs to discuss his policy decisions. He is basically to me a single-issue candidate; last debate 75-80% of his arguments were against the Wall St. billionaires (Don't get me wrong, this is a problem, but there are a multitude of issues facing the US, not just Wall St.) On the other hand, Hillary is well-versed and experienced in all policy issues, and overall seems like the stronger candidate.

Her positions taken over a period of 6 months are well-thought-out, logical, and respectable. It's just a shame that they tend to contradict each other D:

Also, making gun manufacturers liable for murder... Or as I like to call it, 'establish a legal precedent for any murder weapon's maker to be sued for millions'.
 
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Hillary's policies are basically 'everything is pretty much ok as it is.' Look at her policies on health care and affordable college. In health care, all she wants to do is build on the affordable care act, and defends the ridiculously expensive, wasteful system that currently exists. In college, she's basically trying to help people pay for the excessively expensive system, rather than look at reforming the system or anything remotely unsafe. Even on her most progressive policies, she seems to want to defend outdated structures that benefit the rich.

When I hear Bernie's policy decisions, I sometimes think they are unattainable or that they are poorly defined, but I think he actually understands the core issue. I don't think public college should be tuition free, but when he's arguing that a college education is effectively equivalent to a high school education decades ago in terms of job prospects, I can agree with him. I don't personally think the details are important because I don't think (or really want) the details to be executed. I want to see him approach a compromise from the right angle, which I think he would do.

It's a similar story in health care reform. The specifics of his policies (which I believe have been discussed sufficiently) demonstrate better understanding of the issues with the healthcare system. Hillary seems to want to smooth out issues with ACA, rather than realise the health care system still needs massive reforms. I would much rather someone who can approach congress with the right concerns than someone who wants to tell congress exactly what law has to be passed.

This is on top of the issues where Hillary is on wrong side altogether: Privacy, Transparency, Drug Policy reform, Trade policy (TPP, NAFTA, IP).
 
Hillary's policies are basically 'everything is pretty much ok as it is.' Look at her policies on health care and affordable college. In health care, all she wants to do is build on the affordable care act, and defends the ridiculously expensive, wasteful system that currently exists. In college, she's basically trying to help people pay for the excessively expensive system, rather than look at reforming the system or anything remotely unsafe. Even on her most progressive policies, she seems to want to defend outdated structures that benefit the rich.

When I hear Bernie's policy decisions, I sometimes think they are unattainable or that they are poorly defined, but I think he actually understands the core issue. I don't think public college should be tuition free, but when he's arguing that a college education is effectively equivalent to a high school education decades ago in terms of job prospects, I can agree with him. I don't personally think the details are important because I don't think (or really want) the details to be executed. I want to see him approach a compromise from the right angle, which I think he would do.

It's a similar story in health care reform. The specifics of his policies (which I believe have been discussed sufficiently) demonstrate better understanding of the issues with the healthcare system. Hillary seems to want to smooth out issues with ACA, rather than realise the health care system still needs massive reforms. I would much rather someone who can approach congress with the right concerns than someone who wants to tell congress exactly what law has to be passed.

This is on top of the issues where Hillary is on wrong side altogether: Privacy, Transparency, Drug Policy reform, Trade policy (TPP, NAFTA, IP).

I'm not going to debate policy with you here; I agree with quite a bit of the above.

However, at this point, I believe that Bernie's chances at a nomination are decreasing by the passing minute because he has really failed to bring attention to his other policies (Like I said above, 70-80 percent of his talking points at last debate were pointed at Wall St.)

I like to things of things from a strategic viewpoint, and at this point it's politically unfeasible for Bernie to win the election. Say what you will about his policies and the faults of Hillary's, but considering Bernie's lack of support among Black and older voters, and the fact that more than half of Americans would not vote for a socialist makes Hillary the more electable candidate for the Dems
 
I don't think I claimed to be saying Bernie was the more electable candidate, but if you'd like to bring that up:

Bernie is losing among democrats who will vote democrat anyway. Older Clinton supporters, especially older women voters will not be voting Trump (see 538 or other articles relating to Trump's demographic problems), but will turn up anyway. I don't know how nominating Bernie will affect turnout among black voters, but I think Bernie's higher support among independents and voters that are less likely to vote in general will increase overall democratic turnout. I think this is demonstrated in the polling numbers where Bernie and Hillary are compared to Republican candidates. I do not think the actual numbers compared to republicans are worth much, but the comparison between the two is still important at this point.

And honestly, I'm not sure I care who the more electable candidate is for the Dems. I'd much rather see a candidate that represents my views than a candidate that clearly doesn't, but claims to represent my 'team'. A Hillary win in November means 8 years without a progressive in the White House, and further entrenches the current Democratic Party leadership.
 
#NeverTrump has been popular for a while, but #NeverHillary has been gaining traction even among young democrats/independents that are now basically Bernie or Bust (aka, stay at home in November) thanks to this drawn out nomination.

When we look back on this election in one year, the sad truth is that Sanders' campaign's biggest accomplishment will likely be handing Trump the white house. Still, it is a very important movement to make, as both parties need serious shaking up so we can maybe get more progressive Democrats and more moderate Republicans in the running for 2020.
 
Trump is against outsourced labour, the TPP and globalist policies in general. They're extremely damaging positions for the corporate elite. And he repeatedly called out big donors, I don't know what you're talking about.

Could you explain why a conservative Supreme Court would be bad? Because they wouldn't encourage a gun grabbing frenzy?

None of that are the main points of the previous post. The point about citizens United is beyond the stance of a single presiddnt's positions on any number of issues.

If Citizens United is fixed, than the ability of industries to own politicians and shape policy will be dramatically weakened. If politicians, D or R begin to actually represent the desires of citizens and the middle class, things will slowly move in the right direction even with the typical infighting.

Inversely, if things are left unchanged, than the president and anybody else will be completely helpless to stop the black industries of the world from owning policy-- as we've seen by just how powerless and ineffective right minded politicians on either side have been.
 
#NeverTrump has been popular for a while, but #NeverHillary has been gaining traction even among young democrats/independents that are now basically Bernie or Bust (aka, stay at home in November) thanks to this drawn out nomination.

When we look back on this election in one year, the sad truth is that Sanders' campaign's biggest accomplishment will likely be handing Trump the white house. Still, it is a very important movement to make, as both parties need serious shaking up so we can maybe get more progressive Democrats and more moderate Republicans in the running for 2020.

This post is just soooo depressing. I'd hope that these idiots grow up.

First off, letting Trump win is completely inane, and second, voting serves a purpose beyond winning-- namely, making sure that politicians listen to your demographic by demostrating your power to give a fuck.
 
Okay, while I HAD been following the election with interest, and voted for Bernie in the "Americans Abroad" caucus (we slammed it), there was always a part of me thinking:

•So if Bernie wins, great-- there might be social reforms, and paying Japanese taxes, I won't have to pay for 'em.
•If Trump wins, sux, but I have a back up country.

But then this happened:
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/02/donald-trump-north-korea-war-nuclear-weapons

Suddenly I give much more fucks. Don't you guys back home dare fuck us on this! There are a lot of us AMERICANS living here in Asia too!!
 
Okay, while I HAD been following the election with interest, and voted for Bernie in the "Americans Abroad" caucus (we slammed it), there was always a part of me thinking:

•So if Bernie wins, great-- there might be social reforms, and paying Japanese taxes, I won't have to pay for 'em.
•If Trump wins, sux, but I have a back up country.

But then this happened:
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/02/donald-trump-north-korea-war-nuclear-weapons

Suddenly I give much more fucks. Don't you guys back home dare fuck us on this! There are a lot of us AMERICANS living here in Asia too!!

There are those of us who have no intention of letting Trump win the presidency, and that number is growing by the day for every controversial comment he makes. I'll vote for Hillary if it means keeping this loose cannon out of the White House, as much as I want to vote for Sanders!
 
I'm Canadian, but I'll do my best to add to this conversation.

I find it sad how the U.S., a world leader and major power, is likely going to be forced to vote for a racist, misogynistic clown, or a untrustworthy, flipflopping candidate who truthfully has not put forth any plan to improve the current state of the U.S. economy. Speaking of that, any time a country has~$19 trillion debt and a ridiculously high dept/GDP ratio is a time where an effective leader is needed in order to put forth serious, practical proposals to address the current and future challenges faced by the U.S. I'm naturally an economic conservative and social moderate and would normally vote republican (if I lived in the U.S.), but the lack of solid republican nominee -- a nominee who is rational, intelligent and practical -- is completely pathetic. If anything, it showcases just how urgently a Roosevelt, Kennedy, or similar great leader is needed. If Hillary is elected I grantee that nothing will change, as she has, up to now, based her campaign around "well they're [Republicans] worse than me so..."; she has not introduced a single thing that will have a large, positive effect on the country. Honestly, it'll probably be a Hillary vs. Trump election, and if I lived in the U.S., I wouldn't even bother voting.

I haven't been following the election too closely, so just consider this the perspective from an outsider.
 
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The problem with that point of view, in my mind-and I understand you're Canadian and therefore won't be participating in this election, but I want to explain my opinions to US citizens that will be voting- is that, while Clinton likely won't make any improvements in the country, all of the Republican options (with the possible exception of Kasich, he seems comparatively rational) will actively be trying to make the country worse for people who aren't straight white Christian males. So, while voting against Clinton is one thing, it's also giving a little more wiggle room for the racist, homophobic, sexist tyranny to squeeze in.
 
The problem with that point of view, in my mind-and I understand you're Canadian and therefore won't be participating in this election, but I want to explain my opinions to US citizens that will be voting- is that, while Clinton likely won't make any improvements in the country, all of the Republican options (with the possible exception of Kasich, he seems comparatively rational) will actively be trying to make the country worse for people who aren't straight white Christian males. So, while voting against Clinton is one thing, it's also giving a little more wiggle room for the racist, homophobic, sexist tyranny to squeeze in.

That's part of the problem -- the fact that the Republicans can't nominate an individual who will not make the country worse for a large proportion of the population. No disagreements there.
 
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"why should i even vote. on one side you have donald trump, lol donald trump. hes pretty much a walking meme, in a bad way of course, just 24/7 trolling, lol [im foriegn and americans should be ashamed - optional]. then u got ted cruz, hes pretty much satan, zodiac killer (i loled at that one when i saw it on reddit), i mean he pretty much wants to dismantle lots of exisiting govt programs, which actually i would be fine with because like what does the epa do for someone who never goes outside or the irs for someone who wont ever work or the aca for someone whose parents work whitecollar jobs and can pay, but he also is anti net-neutrality, and this is horrifying, our internet is already too slow - look at estonia w faster net, lol, richest country in the world and it still takes 25 secs to load a full page of images on 4chans cp trap board - so i cant vote for him. hillary is owned by the major tampon err wallstreet corperations, lol, what does she say during her vagina speeches uhhh wallstreet speeches, why wont she treat nice guys with respect i mean release the transcripts, she'll realize what she wants eventually, and thats to roll over to her back (and spread her legs - wait no) so another dude can plow her repeatedly in the primaries. id vote for bernie, he seems to have no shot though lol, uninformed voters not giving it to the only man who can save the USA. the only reason i got a c in ap econ was bc hs was a complete joke lol, he wont have to raise taxes on anyone but the super rich.... guess im bernie or bust all over these memes lol. i get the logic the lesser of two evils is still a service, and voting is the only way to show my demographic cares, and maybe part of the reason our country percieves itself as trending downhill is a lack of an informed, voting citizreny, but fuck it tfw no gf no good canidates so i wont vote"

have i "gotten" this thread yet
 
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"why should i even vote. on one side you have donald trump, lol donald trump. hes pretty much a walking meme, in a bad way of course, just 24/7 trolling, lol [im foriegn and americans should be ashamed - optional]. then u got ted cruz, hes pretty much satan, zodiac killer (i loled at that one when i saw it on reddit), i mean he pretty much wants to dismantle lots of exisiting govt programs, which actually i would be fine with because like what does the epa do for someone who never goes outside or the irs for someone who wont ever work or the aca for someone whose parents work whitecollar jobs and can pay, but he also is anti net-neutrality, and this is horrifying, our internet is already too slow - look at estonia w faster net, lol, richest country in the world and it still takes 25 secs to load a full page of images on 4chans cp trap board - so i cant vote for him. hillary is owned by the major tampon err wallstreet corperations, lol, what does she say during her vagina speeches uhhh wallstreet speeches, why wont she treat nice guys with respect i mean release the transcripts, she'll realize what she wants eventually, and thats to roll over to her back (and spread her legs - wait no) so another dude can plow her repeatedly in the primaries. id vote for bernie, he seems to have no shot though lol, uninformed voters not giving it to the only man who can save the USA. the only reason i got a c in ap econ was bc hs was a complete joke lol, he wont have to raise taxes on anyone but the super rich.... guess im bernie or bust all over these memes lol. i get the logic the lesser of two evils is still a service, and voting is the only way to show my demographic cares, and maybe part of the reason our country percieves itself as trending downhill is a lack of an informed, voting citizreny, but fuck it tfw no gf no good canidates so i wont vote"

have i "gotten" this thread yet
Holy shit, why aren't you getting paid for this?
 
Tell me something I don't know. The whole Republican Party's purpose in life seems to be making the wealthy even richer, even at the cost of everyone else, making it more difficult everyone else to fight the big corporations when the latter wrongs the former, and making life in general more difficult for anyone who doesn't share their beliefs. If the whole party goes defunct, I won't shed a tear! They are a joke!
 
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