Yes. It was green, I remember that, and in Pokemon green usually means Grass type.
Shit I probably need more sleep.
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Gen VII: Pokémon Sun and Moon (New info Post #5834)
- Thread starter Karxrida
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Yes. It was green, I remember that, and in Pokemon green usually means Grass type.
Shit I probably need more sleep.
Corocoro said they would have news in their next issue. Corocoro comes out on the 15th of each month, but is usually leaked a few days before - usually the 11th or the 12th.
I don't see why a platypus Pokemon can't be Grass-type, I can actually sort of see how it'll work. Remember we have a Ground hippo, a Fire slug/snail, Ground/Electric fish, and (pure) Electric eel/lamprey.
When XY were announced, it was with a short trailer showing gameplay, locations, Xerneas, Yveltal and the starters, complete with English names and all. Then things got completely silent for a long, long while, until Mega Mewtwo Y was leaked, then Sylveon started appearing (or maybe I switched the order around, can't really remember). After that, though, there was next to no info for months.
This announcement seems more like the ORAS one. The announcement trailer only acknowledged the existence of the games. Then we got a teaser showing the Primals, then nothing until right before release.
Anyway, for what it matters, the D/P starters weren't revealed until the last CoroCoro issue before the release of the games in Japan. The B/W starters also only existed as silhouettes for months before their design was confirmed. Game Freak could easily pull a ploy like that again too, but for marketing reasons I suspect they will drop them earlier.
Didn't they say they were going to showcase the boxart mons for SM this upcoming issue? Or was I just being mislead by the #smogon topic at the time? Or idk.
Either way, Serebii did confirm from this issue onwards there will be a SM showcase in CoroCoro so we should definitely get new content cooking up.
Also the nothing reveal Sunday morning I suppose finally gives me a reason to stop taking that kids show seriously for information given their past history of pulling these stunts for western viewers only to show nothing new. Just as well I was not online at the time...
Either way, Serebii did confirm from this issue onwards there will be a SM showcase in CoroCoro so we should definitely get new content cooking up.
Also the nothing reveal Sunday morning I suppose finally gives me a reason to stop taking that kids show seriously for information given their past history of pulling these stunts for western viewers only to show nothing new. Just as well I was not online at the time...
Hey, here's something not talk about: argument AGAINST introducing a new type (specifically Light, Magic, & Sound):
NOTE: I did not know at the time who the vidoe poster was. I no way do I support his actions (he sounds to be a bit of a drama queen from what I read) toward Smogon. I just thought the points he brought up in this video regarding not wanting new types were worth maybe a bit of discussion.
SUMMARY:
Against Light:
1. Says it's pretty much Fairy-type. Fairy-type did what many said Light-type would do.
2. Also the concept of a Fairy has lore behind it which you can base type match-ups on (like Fairy's being weak to cold iron, thus Steel-types). Light is a vague concept and would be difficult to base type match-ups on.
3. Also there's more to balance than type match-up. Like Light would be super effective against Ghost but feels that Ghost-types are balanced enough the don't need a nerf. Also Dark already got nerfed by Fairy so an additional nerf by Light might make it obsolete.
X. To add my own point, Light is based on a misconception of there being a Dark-type. In Japan the Dark-type is called "Evil-type" and philosophically has "good counterparts": Psychic & Fighting (it's what the Unova Elite Four sort of reflected, with Ghost-type being used as a second "dark" type).
Against Magic:
1. The concept of magic is mostly covered by the Psycihic-type, having magical based Pokemon, Abilities, and moves attributed to it.
2. With Pokemon already controlling the elements, what exactly would a "Magic-type" be?
X. Another personal point, I also feel Fairy-type took the "Magic-type" place. Fairy are magical creatures, and as explained above they have lore you can base type match-ups around as oppose to the vagueness of Magic.
Against Sound:
1. While he points to a lot of evidence in support of a Sound-type, he also points out its mainly been attributed to the Normal-type and separating the two will severely nerf Normal-type Pokemon or Pokemon with a type changing Ability.
2. Feels that despite their being the base there still isn't enough, they'd need to add a ton of new Pokemon to be Sound-type like they did with Fairy (honestly I feel this is a weak point, though it brings up a point that for any of these types they'd need to introduce a ton of new Pokemon (along with moves for them) that could take the place of a new type combination people been waiting for).
And just in general I feel we should give Fairy-types at least on more generation. Gen VI was its debut generation so a lot of focus was put on it, but now let's have a generation where it's just a type like the others. A new type would would take away the focus and utterly mess with the metagame that at the moment Fairy-type had brought both major and rebalance to. Also by not having a new type every generation it makes the introduction of a new type special, maybe something that should be saved when Pokemon is ready to take a bold new step.
NOTE: I did not know at the time who the vidoe poster was. I no way do I support his actions (he sounds to be a bit of a drama queen from what I read) toward Smogon. I just thought the points he brought up in this video regarding not wanting new types were worth maybe a bit of discussion.
SUMMARY:
Against Light:
1. Says it's pretty much Fairy-type. Fairy-type did what many said Light-type would do.
2. Also the concept of a Fairy has lore behind it which you can base type match-ups on (like Fairy's being weak to cold iron, thus Steel-types). Light is a vague concept and would be difficult to base type match-ups on.
3. Also there's more to balance than type match-up. Like Light would be super effective against Ghost but feels that Ghost-types are balanced enough the don't need a nerf. Also Dark already got nerfed by Fairy so an additional nerf by Light might make it obsolete.
X. To add my own point, Light is based on a misconception of there being a Dark-type. In Japan the Dark-type is called "Evil-type" and philosophically has "good counterparts": Psychic & Fighting (it's what the Unova Elite Four sort of reflected, with Ghost-type being used as a second "dark" type).
Against Magic:
1. The concept of magic is mostly covered by the Psycihic-type, having magical based Pokemon, Abilities, and moves attributed to it.
2. With Pokemon already controlling the elements, what exactly would a "Magic-type" be?
X. Another personal point, I also feel Fairy-type took the "Magic-type" place. Fairy are magical creatures, and as explained above they have lore you can base type match-ups around as oppose to the vagueness of Magic.
Against Sound:
1. While he points to a lot of evidence in support of a Sound-type, he also points out its mainly been attributed to the Normal-type and separating the two will severely nerf Normal-type Pokemon or Pokemon with a type changing Ability.
2. Feels that despite their being the base there still isn't enough, they'd need to add a ton of new Pokemon to be Sound-type like they did with Fairy (honestly I feel this is a weak point, though it brings up a point that for any of these types they'd need to introduce a ton of new Pokemon (along with moves for them) that could take the place of a new type combination people been waiting for).
And just in general I feel we should give Fairy-types at least on more generation. Gen VI was its debut generation so a lot of focus was put on it, but now let's have a generation where it's just a type like the others. A new type would would take away the focus and utterly mess with the metagame that at the moment Fairy-type had brought both major and rebalance to. Also by not having a new type every generation it makes the introduction of a new type special, maybe something that should be saved when Pokemon is ready to take a bold new step.
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Can we just like, not give Verlisify videos any kind of legitimacy? I feel like even he should know that just one generation after the introduction of a new type is way, way too soon to be speculating about new types. I don't doubt that Game Freak will add more types at some point, but "in a generation right after a generation that introduced one or more new types" is most certainly not that time. Plus, you'd get a whole lot of angry people saying things like "We JUST got used to the new type chart!", and would you blame them?
If anything, they should tweak the Ice type and Bug attacks matchup. Poor souls couldn't live well under current matchup.
Wait, that was made by that infamous guy? Ha.
Wait, that was made by that infamous guy? Ha.
Ice-type isn't that bad. Sure, it's the worst defensive type in the game by miles, but it's also one of the best offensive types, not just on type coverage alone, but also based on all those Pokemon 4x weak roaming around. There's a good reason why Ice-type moves like Ice Beam and HP Ice are very common as coverage, and why Ice STAB is so valuable.
Bug-type, of course, is pretty bad, but I feel like its badness can at least be justified from an in-game standpoint. Bug-type Pokemon have traditionally been early-game Pokemon that evolve fast, so it makes sense that the type itself would be pretty mediocre so as to balance out the whole quick evolution thing. It wouldn't really be fair if all of these early-game Pokemon that reach third stage evolution at level 10 were also of a particularly good typing. At the very least, the type does have a saving grace in the move U-turn and with how good of a defensive typing Bug/Steel is.
Bug-type, of course, is pretty bad, but I feel like its badness can at least be justified from an in-game standpoint. Bug-type Pokemon have traditionally been early-game Pokemon that evolve fast, so it makes sense that the type itself would be pretty mediocre so as to balance out the whole quick evolution thing. It wouldn't really be fair if all of these early-game Pokemon that reach third stage evolution at level 10 were also of a particularly good typing. At the very least, the type does have a saving grace in the move U-turn and with how good of a defensive typing Bug/Steel is.
The problem with Ice types is that they constantly make Pokemon like Avalugg - slow, physically defensive Pokemon, as opposed to Pokemon like Weavile - fast glass cannon types. If they made more of the latter for Ice types then we wouldn't have a problem but so far that seems to be lacking...
Ice and Bug aren't bad types, they're just filled with bad Pokémon.
The Bug type is characterized by the mandatory, weak "grow strong fast - go obsolete fast" early-game Bugs, which leaves little room for late-game Bugs lest Bug take up a disproportionally big part of that generation's Pokédex. That being said, whenever there is room for late-game Bugs, they're usually pretty strong. Scizor, Heracross, Pinsir, Volcarona... there are many legitimately good Bug Pokémon out there, but they are outnumbered by every generation's Butterfree or Ledian.
As for Ice, it's an inherently offensive type filled with defensive Pokémon. Nothing wrong with the type itself, it's just the implementation of it that works poorly. Ice is a good STAB and excellent for coverage, but there are so few Ice types designed to take advantage of the fact. I've said a lot about this earlier, elsewhere, so I'll try to be short. The main problem with Ice Pokémon is that they're too often designed to resemble a slow, mighty glacier, and too rarely designed like a howling winter storm or a thundering avalanche. Ice's archetype is too far skewed toward the defensive side, whereas its actual defensive capabilities suck, as dictated by the type chart. Meanwhile, its stellar offensive potential is sorely overloked.
However, neither of these "problems" are inherent. Both types can remedy themselves without fixing the type chart. Heck, I'd even say there's hardly any problem with Bug Pokémon at all. Disregarding the weak early-game Bug Pokémon, Bug has added some fantastic contributions to the Pokémon creature pool. The Ice rooster might be full of terrible wannabe-defensive behemoths, but exceptions to the rule can always be made, and even expected (look at Steel, which is in the same situation - yet we still have 'mons like Lucario, Scizor and Excadrill). Sooner or later, Ice will spit out something designed for sweeping, and it'll probably take the metagame by storm. Just look at the offensive Ice Pokémon already out there, like Mamoswine and Weavile. They're exceptions to the norm, Ice types done right, and will probably find company in later generations.
The Bug type is characterized by the mandatory, weak "grow strong fast - go obsolete fast" early-game Bugs, which leaves little room for late-game Bugs lest Bug take up a disproportionally big part of that generation's Pokédex. That being said, whenever there is room for late-game Bugs, they're usually pretty strong. Scizor, Heracross, Pinsir, Volcarona... there are many legitimately good Bug Pokémon out there, but they are outnumbered by every generation's Butterfree or Ledian.
As for Ice, it's an inherently offensive type filled with defensive Pokémon. Nothing wrong with the type itself, it's just the implementation of it that works poorly. Ice is a good STAB and excellent for coverage, but there are so few Ice types designed to take advantage of the fact. I've said a lot about this earlier, elsewhere, so I'll try to be short. The main problem with Ice Pokémon is that they're too often designed to resemble a slow, mighty glacier, and too rarely designed like a howling winter storm or a thundering avalanche. Ice's archetype is too far skewed toward the defensive side, whereas its actual defensive capabilities suck, as dictated by the type chart. Meanwhile, its stellar offensive potential is sorely overloked.
However, neither of these "problems" are inherent. Both types can remedy themselves without fixing the type chart. Heck, I'd even say there's hardly any problem with Bug Pokémon at all. Disregarding the weak early-game Bug Pokémon, Bug has added some fantastic contributions to the Pokémon creature pool. The Ice rooster might be full of terrible wannabe-defensive behemoths, but exceptions to the rule can always be made, and even expected (look at Steel, which is in the same situation - yet we still have 'mons like Lucario, Scizor and Excadrill). Sooner or later, Ice will spit out something designed for sweeping, and it'll probably take the metagame by storm. Just look at the offensive Ice Pokémon already out there, like Mamoswine and Weavile. They're exceptions to the norm, Ice types done right, and will probably find company in later generations.
Ice shares that trait with Rock. Sans Tyranitar, nothing really pulls off the "defensive Rock type" setup that seems to be the type's platonic ideal. I mean, it's the type used as a benchmark for a "powerful" physical matchup. Wanna show how PHYSICALLY STRONG this type is? Look no further! It can beat rocks! Which totally backfires when coupled with it's pretty terrible special weaknesses. More speedy offensive Rock types plz. Or ones that can supplement their shitty defensive typings with something that allows them to switch into things (or in the case of Rhyperior, something additional to let them actually make use of that trait.) I know this is totally wishlisting and I'm generally against it but I can't NOT bring this up because there's rarely an opportunity to on Smogon and anyway I think it would have a great effect for a pretty small change: Remove Steel's resistance to Normal. Normal gets a significant offensive boost, Steel gets a nerf, and Rock becomes the RBY classic type that can defend teams from Normal spam. MKanga is borked anyway, so it's no real loss.
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that being offensively great is... while STAB ice would be great, most of time ice Pokemon are easily replaceable with anything that can use Ice Beam, especially water Pokemon. Sometimes I thought ice Pokemon's existence is... and could only feel bad when seeing my Froslass.
Still, let's just see and hope there will be something better for them. Or little justice, at least just as little change on its matchup with water.
One more thing I'd like to bring up, while we're still in the speculation phase and everything is possible: Gen VI set a few strange precedents, and I wonder if the designers will want to keep building on them.
Maybe most noteworthy, multiple Megas for the same Pokémon. This is a bit of a genius move in my opinion, since they allow for more flexibility with many Pokémon. Many Megas are so good compared to the base stage that the Pokémon is trained, moves picked, and stats specialized solely on the basis on what the Mega excels at. This leads many Pokémon to overlook vast swathes of their movepool, nifty Abilities or other stats that may be of some use. Take Pidgeot, for instance, which has a naturally higher Attack than Sp.Atk, and a decent Physical movepool (or, it's no more barren than its Special movepool, at least). Or Sceptile, whose alterations to its movepool royally screwed it over when most of its moves suddenly belonged to the other offensive stat than what Sceptile was specialized for. Then look at what they did to Charizard, to allow it to use both its Physical and Special moves, without altering its already-existing movepool to any great degree. Split Megas enable more play styles with the same Pokémon, allowing it to utilize assets it always had, but which used to be overshadowed by other strategies. However, the trick has only been used twice, both at the same time.
Then on the move side, things begin to get more strange: Gen VI gave us a strange move in Freeze-Dry. A move that exceeds the conventions of the type chart. This is a huge deal, potentially a paradigm shift in Pokémon, but currently constrained to one move of one type. With a full generation's worth of play-testing and feedback, I wonder if they will expand this feature? It could be a live-saving feature for many Pokémon, giving them unique ways to battle which separate them from the other Pokémon of their type.
Likewise, we have Flying Press. A move that deals dual-type damage. We talked a great deal about it before the release of XY, and many were disappointed that the dual-type-move feature was restricted to one move learned by one Pokémon, but it seems strange to introduce such a concept only to utilize it once. It is an intriguing concept with a great potential for expansion, but was strangely limited in its Gen VI implementation.
It seems strange to me for Game Freak to program in those strange new features, only to use them so little. I think we should at least entertain the possibility that they will return with a broader implementation in future games.
Maybe most noteworthy, multiple Megas for the same Pokémon. This is a bit of a genius move in my opinion, since they allow for more flexibility with many Pokémon. Many Megas are so good compared to the base stage that the Pokémon is trained, moves picked, and stats specialized solely on the basis on what the Mega excels at. This leads many Pokémon to overlook vast swathes of their movepool, nifty Abilities or other stats that may be of some use. Take Pidgeot, for instance, which has a naturally higher Attack than Sp.Atk, and a decent Physical movepool (or, it's no more barren than its Special movepool, at least). Or Sceptile, whose alterations to its movepool royally screwed it over when most of its moves suddenly belonged to the other offensive stat than what Sceptile was specialized for. Then look at what they did to Charizard, to allow it to use both its Physical and Special moves, without altering its already-existing movepool to any great degree. Split Megas enable more play styles with the same Pokémon, allowing it to utilize assets it always had, but which used to be overshadowed by other strategies. However, the trick has only been used twice, both at the same time.
Then on the move side, things begin to get more strange: Gen VI gave us a strange move in Freeze-Dry. A move that exceeds the conventions of the type chart. This is a huge deal, potentially a paradigm shift in Pokémon, but currently constrained to one move of one type. With a full generation's worth of play-testing and feedback, I wonder if they will expand this feature? It could be a live-saving feature for many Pokémon, giving them unique ways to battle which separate them from the other Pokémon of their type.
Likewise, we have Flying Press. A move that deals dual-type damage. We talked a great deal about it before the release of XY, and many were disappointed that the dual-type-move feature was restricted to one move learned by one Pokémon, but it seems strange to introduce such a concept only to utilize it once. It is an intriguing concept with a great potential for expansion, but was strangely limited in its Gen VI implementation.
It seems strange to me for Game Freak to program in those strange new features, only to use them so little. I think we should at least entertain the possibility that they will return with a broader implementation in future games.
Not just features, but smaller things too! e.g. Defog :I Massive change in the move's utility, and next to no effective way to get access to it and use it in the battles where it matters. And probably a bazillion other things. I would have liked to have seen another "viral" event like the Latios/Latias one that ORAS had near release. I actually got it, too! Penetration must be pretty high by now.
Who's Verlisify?
*checks the Google*
Oh... err, sorry. I didn't know. I just watched the recommended videos and if I think they made a good point talk about them, I don't really pay attention to the videomaker unless they're someone I'm subscribed too. If you want I can remove the video. EDIT: I added a disclaimer below the video explaining I don't support his actions and just wanted to talk about the new type discussion points he brought up in the video.
Anyway, responding to Codraroll, GF always had a bad habit of doing this, and not just with moves. I'd also point to evolution methods on how they keep adding new ones yet neglect ones they'd made which seemed interesting. Evolution stones, preference in a certain stat/trait (like a Contest Condition), knowing a certain move, being in a certain location, being traded with a specific other Pokemon, needing to have another specific Pokemon in your party, & needing a certain weather condition.
Maybe we should start making a list of discussion points we brought up (without wishlisting):
- Higher stat Bug-types (preferably offensive)
- Offensive Ice- & Rock-types (preferably also speedy)
- Alternate Mega Evolutions (focusing on different aspects (and stategies) of the Pokemon one Mega Evo couldn't)
- Moves like Freeze-Dry that circumvent type match-ups
- Moves like Flying Press which are multi-type
- More evolutions using old evolution methods
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I like your post, but read through this sentence again and see if you can tell why I wouldn't want that...
Flying Press seems a good idea, but only in theory. Nobody uses it on Hawlucha. He really needs a good Flying STAB, and as a fighting STAB, Hi Kump Kick is so much powerful and Flying Press doesn't hit Rock, Steel effectively (especially the last one)
Fixed?
Thing is I don't think Flying Press's type combination combine well together. There aren't many type combinations where that duel-type would come in use. Like say if we got a Fighting/Ground combo move, I can see that being pretty devastating. Or how about a Fire/Ice one. So it's not the concept of the move that's the problem, just the only example we got isn't the best.
When I saw the type matchup table, I see that Flying Press doesn't have overlapping matchup like double resistance or double effectiveness. I don't think GF wants to make a move that would probably deal like 8x damage from type matchup alone. This will be difficult to them.
Fire/Ice would be effective on Grass (*4), Bug, Ground, Flying.
You lose the Super Effective on Ice, Steel, Dragon
--> Seriously not the best type combo ... I would prefer two different Attacks :D
Fighting / Ground would be more useful, with being effective on Normal, Steel(*4), Rock(*4), Ice, Electric, Fire
You only lose Poison ! A great combo :)
You lose the Super Effective on Ice, Steel, Dragon
--> Seriously not the best type combo ... I would prefer two different Attacks :D
Fighting / Ground would be more useful, with being effective on Normal, Steel(*4), Rock(*4), Ice, Electric, Fire
You only lose Poison ! A great combo :)
It's a lie! Bug type Pokemon and ice type Pokemon are good Pokemon just too many people discriminate against them.
Funny how I just watched this video randomly yesterday. And yeah, adding another type would just make a mess of things. It'd be better to let the Fairy type and metagame settle in for another generation or two at least. I've only now finally gotten used to the fact that Dark types are no longer Super Effective against Gardevior and her ilk.
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