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Unpopular opinions

Chandelure is the poster child of an inanimate object-based design done well. It immediately expresses spookyness, thanks to a good use of shapes and colour. It very effectively conveys the Ghost/Fire typing in its design, it's well balanced (it's kind of surprising how "round" Chandelure is - its height, depth and width are almost exactly the same), and its four "arms" give it a dimension of complexity and strength. It looks "big" (or at least, complex) and menacing, and with the five big flames you know it means business. Yes, it really resembles a chandelier, but at the same time, it clearly has a mind and expression of its own. It's more than a chandelier with a face, despite being exactly that. Insofar as you can call it a face, with two expressionless eyes and a mouth that can't move... or is it even a mouth?

I think that the Ghost type is the type that pulls of the inanimate object design base the best. Ghosts don't need limbs, or mouths, or expressive faces. They are dead things come to life. Their design can make sense and feel "right" without any animal features. Few other types can pull that off, the closest probably being Steel, which instead resembles machinery.

Problems tend to arise when inanimate objects try to be animals. Sticking a happy face on Vanillish (and two on Vanilluxe) was what ruined the design. Why do they need expressive eyes, and mouths that move like that? How can you have a smile without a jaw? That, and the fact that they did too little to distinguish them from "generic ice cream with faces". Chandelure works very well as an inanimate object, whereas many others simply don't.
 
Except for Rotom-Cut and its adorably terrifying smile.

I was about to say how it was just terrifying and not cute but um, it does look cute...what went through GF as they designed a Pokemon that looks happy to be shredding people to bits and be adorable at the same time?
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Help me idk how to do Show Hide stuff ;;

EDIT: Never mind I found out how to.
 
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Am I the only person who likes Muk? Yeah, it's a sentient pile of sludge, but it has personality and it's cool.
And simplicity doesn't equal bad design.
Also, how could anyone hate Chandelure? It's probably the best designed Pokémon from the entirety of Generation V!

You are not alone, I too like muk. I mean he's not my favorite or anything, but I think he's pretty cool. Just a purple pile o' sludge.
 
But the Rotom formes are still dumb.
They aren't. The idea of an Ghost that can possess electronics is a really cool idea. Also, it is insanely fun to watch as a washing machine destroys other Pokémon. A fire martial artist monkey? Dead. A rock kaiju? Dead. A terrifying sea serpent? Dead.
I really don't understand the hatred of inanimate object Pokémon when they've been around since Generation I and can be really cool.
You are not alone, I too like muk. I mean he's not my favorite or anything, but I think he's pretty cool. Just a purple pile o' sludge.
I'm glad I'm not alone.
 
I really really liked the Underground in Gen IV. On both Diamond and Platinum I racked up several hours just digging away. It's far away my favourite minigame in a Pokémon game.
If they ever do make a Sinnoh remake (and let's hope so!) I want the Underground to work with WiFi, give use to spheres (since they were utterly pointless, buying traps to dick around the underground) and maybe let us expand our Secret base in size.
 
Alright here's some of my own:
  • I actually... very much enjoyed Sinnoh; it's mountain/snow routes were my favourite things and the slow pacing of the story didn't bother me at all, in fact, I liked it
  • I miss backtracking routes, as of ORAS you can now just skip to the previous destination instead of walking all your way back like you had to back in R/S/E. I know it's optional, but I feel as if having the option itself removes some of the immersion into the game from me.

Slow Snow: It's alright to have a "slow" route, a route which you're intended to take your time in. It can be used to help ease the player after an exciting portion or build up atmosphere. However I think that should come from having the route being expansive and encouraging you to exploring it. While Route 217 is such a route, they also hampered the player at the same time with the deep snow forcing you to walk. It actually does the opposite of encouraging you to explore as you want to get out of it as soon as possible. Having low visibility from the storm? That's fine, you can still see through it. Not letting us use your bike? Another thing I'm okay with, with a low visibility it would be reckless to ride in the snow. And maybe if they had specific places off the beaten path that was deep snow that would have been alright. But for the entire route? It just makes the route feel like a drag and I want to get through it faster not take my time to explore.

Backtrack: I don't feel they implemented the backtrack correctly. Whenever a character offered to skip back to a location I was a bit confused wondering "do I need to back there?", I haven't played through the Hoenn story for a while and while I'm guessing I do need to go back to the location to progress I usually come to that conclusion while playing. Also the offer is a one or done deal, if you don't take it your rival leaves without you (and once they get there they leave you again). What if I want to explore first? Maybe instead of having the rival leave they could decide to hang around (they can use the excuse of looking for more Pokemon) and you can talk with them again to get the offer (and when you arrive to your destination they stay in the city/town until you leave in which case they can vanish until the story needs them again).
Skipping back could be an option but not one forced on you to decide once you're done with what the story wants you to do.

Unova just put too much on it's plate, they had to introduce 156 Pokémon (the most ever) so they couldn't take the time to get each one just right. That's why the gen 6 Pokémon are almost all so damn cool.

I wouldn't say almost all the Gen 6 were cool looking, I'd say most look alright but nothing spectacular.

My list of cool looking Gen VI Pokemon (excluding Mega since those are usually made to look cool): Chesnaught, Pangoro, Honedge family, Malamar, Clawitzer, Tyrunt family, Hawlucha, Trevenant, Bergmite family, Noibat family, Yveltal, Zygarde, & Volcanion.

Now my list for cool looking Gen V Pokemon: Samurott, Stoutland, Purrloin family, Simisage, Zebstrika, Gigalith, Excadrill, Venipede family, Basculin, Sandile family, Darmanitan, Cofagrigus, Archen family, Zoroark, Escavalier, Galvantula, Ferrothorn, Cryogonal, Mienshao, Druddigon, Golett family, Bisharp, Bouffalant (noticing lot of Gen V Pokemon had marvelous hairdos. Stoutland, Simisage, Bouffalant), Braviary, Swords of Justice, Zekrom, Kyurem, & Genesect.

Of course this is my opinion and I do think I have different tastes than other people (when I say a design is cool I'm more looking for interesting designs that I also wouldn't call "cute". BTW, on my list of "cute" Pokemon is the Vanillite family, Trubbish family, Litwick family, Dieno, & Zwelious if you're wondering what I think of those designs). And an odd thing about that is I think the more focused a Pokemon design is the more likely it could be dull as it's sort of being made on committee which would go for a general appeal most of the time. Meanwhile designs that are part of a large group can get away with a bit more unique designs as there's more of them that can be used to fill certain niches.

Not saying there aren't bad ones. As you said Gigalith's pre-evolutions aren't that great and the Woobat family just don't click with me. But likewise I fine the Litleo family and Skiddo family having okay designs, cool bits about them but there's something holding it back. To end this thought, I think Gen V only has more lacking designs because there's just more Pokemon, however I think by ratio they'd have mostly same amount of cool, cute, okay, lacking, etc. designs.

New Unpopular Opinion: Some of the designs I like most about Pokemon are the object & concept Pokemon. I just like the creativity that is needed to take a candle/lamp/chandelier, household appliances, ice cream, garbage, magnets, keyring, balloon, letters, computer model, Moai statue, sayings like "don't cast your pearls before swine", sun & moon, weather doll, etc. and turn it into a creature. Now whether you think they failed or not is another point entirely, but at least the attempt showed how and what can be done.
 
It's just human nature for when set or collection is presented to judge and rank them amongst each other, even if the lowest rung is still the bronze medalist at the Olympics. I don't think any single generation or main series game is really hated on collective, but since negative voices ring the loudest it's easy to get the wrong impression.

Now enough of that sweet stuff, it's time to get salty. Because I ordered a plate of level design and Sinnoh gave me nothing but beef!

For this to be a fair comparison, I'm choosing Platinum versus HG/SS because G/S versus D/P will just confuse the issue with software limitations and design bugs that were later corrected. Now, I will preface this with admitting that HG/SS is my favorite but I do agree with Pika Pal's statements. I found the game fun and challenging, but if you say that the challenge was completely artificial and due to lacking elements then yeah, I can't deny that. I also agree that Platinum overall is still a pretty good game, and that the trainers and bosses managed to be challenging but fair for the most part.

But that is just one half of the game's world, and for me all of Sinnoh failed hardcore on level design, almost to worst of the series. Sinnoh is linear, there's only one path from start to Elite Four, but you'd never really notice with how kooky crazy that path is, having you double back, reroute, and get flung to and fro around the map like it's little sock puppet. Yet despite all this you still hit road blocks, both of the HM-variety (gotta get surf to go to Canclave!) and the "can't go here yet" obnoxious ones (Psyduck's gotta headache and you gotta wait). So the worst of linear design and the worst of non-linear design, both melded together. How do you even do that?!

But that's all overall impressions. I just wish there was one solid route to really illustrate my point...

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Ladies and Gentleman, I present The Snowpoint Trail.

The path to Snowpoint contains every single reason I think Sinnoh's level design is poopy. All rolled up into a grim trek north that ends with you frozen in a snowbank considering what Bibarel tastes like as you shiver in the cold. Did any of the designers ever hear of the Donner Party?!

1. You start at Mt. Coronet. Wow, stumble right out of the gate. The designer of Mt. Coronet went to the same school as the Ocean Palace of Phantom Hourglass in Ways to make a bad level: 101, make you repeat it over and over in bigger chunks. So in this one you've got to grab 2 or 3 HM Slaves and bench some fightin' mons just to move some rocks out of your way. Yay? This is why the HM policy got nuked in Gen 5, Mt. Coronet requires 7 moves total to fully complete. Luckily you don't need all of them at this moment, but just you wait. Just you wait.

2. No Fly spots. So instead of a bottleneck, we are now stuck in a corridor. There's no getting off the Snowpoint Trail until either finishing or starting over from the beginning. True, at least the trainers won't reset but you will be stuck with the HM slaves needed for Mt. Coronet until the end of the trip. They were nice enough to give you a resting spot half-way, but no such luck if you run out of items.

3. It's LONG. It's technically two routes, 216 and 217 but since they just flow into one another it's really one long super route. Saving grace is that wild pokemon only pop up in tall grass, and there isn't much of that. So you don't need that many Repels the further you go (which is good, since the inventory system in Gen4 was... bloated).

4. The weather. You are dealing with hail from start to finish, which means that no matter how good you are, your pokemon are fighting a war of attrition against hail damage and trainer damage. So even your best mons get whittled away bit by bit. Only one type of pokemon is immune. To add insult to injury, it even effects the player, YOU! Visibility starts at a premium and then lows to a hair above "Flash cave" level as the snowstorm gets worse and worse as you go north. So it's like a Fog route, but Defog won't work. Why did we ever need Defog, other than for Gen 6 battle mechanics?

5. The trainers. Due to Sinnoh's trainer classes, 60% of the trainers on this route are Ace Trainers. Only about 20% are actually the ice using skiers and snowboarders, the remaining are Ninja boys (popping out of the snow. LIKE DAISIES!) and Karate guys. While this could be a legit and fun challenge, Ace Trainers use a diverse set of pokemon and have a tiny bit better A.I., all the other flaws make this one a flaw by association. It's unfair to take on diverse trainers when half your team is an HM slave and the other half is dying to hail. So you can't cheese the route by spamming Close Combat until your girlfriend says "I need some space." You need to meet diversity with diversity... and your underleveled Bibarel who just sticks around for Strength and Rock Smash.

6. Gee, Mr. Stage7-4, that all sounds pretty bad but not worth ranting over. I feel this garbage pie is just missing something to take it into the WORST LEVEL EVER territory. Something super annoying, adding nothing to the game but to watch you suffer and suffer and suffer and suffer THOSE STUPID SNOW PILES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The closer you get to Snowpoint the more you have to deal with snowbanks, areas of the map that reduce your walking speed to a crawl and sometimes trap you, making you shake yourself out of it. And they are everywhere! And unlike the Great Marsh and the swamps, there's no trick and no visual clue, any part of the snow can do this and at some places it's just unavoidable. You cannot just dodge trainers running through the map as fast as you can to get this whole ordeal over with. And it never lets up EVER. Even after you get to Snowpoint there are still these snow banks to trap you and waste your time. Who in there right mind came up with this?! HOW IS THIS FUN?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!(death by punctuation)

And every other level in Sinnoh just takes one or more of the above points and runs with it, especially HM abuse. Sinnoh's level design really is the worst in the series, both before and since. I love open ended and complex design, and I find linearity without a point annoying, but this just sucks all of the fun out of exploring a world. That's why I think HG/SS is superior to Platinum. Sure, most of the routes were short, but all the annoying parts were side dungeons that you only put yourself through because you wanted to, not because you had to. And it added some true freedom, even if in just a small dose, allowing you to do gyms 5, 6, and 7 (and almost all of Kanto) in the order you wanted.

The icing (snow pun) on the cake is that when you get to Snowpoint, there's a ferry dock. Sure, it doesn't go back to the mainland, but it's almost like the Snowpoint citizens are saying "Wait, you WALKED here? Nobody does that, we all take the boat!"
Reposting this because I'm not doing this rant twice. Don't get me wrong, Sinnoh has merit, I just really did not like their level design at ALL.
 
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I really really liked the Underground in Gen IV. On both Diamond and Platinum I racked up several hours just digging away. It's far away my favourite minigame in a Pokémon game.
If they ever do make a Sinnoh remake (and let's hope so!) I want the Underground to work with WiFi, give use to spheres (since they were utterly pointless, buying traps to dick around the underground) and maybe let us expand our Secret base in size.

I also agree here. It was one of the few positive points about Gen 4 for me. A change of pace, and I really enjoyed digging around for shards and fossils. When Gen 4 remakes do roll around (probably on the NX / Next Handheld, since remakes are made for each new handheld, hence by Gen 5 didn't have a remake) it'd be nice to have WiFi for it, like you said. Generally more items that you can dig up and perhaps generally add more to it (it could get quite lonely when you were on your own). One thing that always bugged me about the underground was that there were isolated sections, as in you can't reach that section if your in another. Just merge the whole thing imo.
 
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Liking the Underground isn't really an unpopular opinion. If anything, everybody seems to love it.
 
Another unpopular opinion: Rock is a stupid type.
  • The Gym Leaders/Elite 4 who use them claim that they have "rock-hard defenses", but they have way too many weaknesses, even as GF keeps coming out with slow, defensive Rock types (but at least they didn't suffer as badly as Ice).
  • Why are they weak to two starter types but strong against the third? I always found this confusing especially considering the three first gyms being Rock type. (This doesn't excuse Gen 2 because they decided to hamper the already lackluster Chikorita's ingame performance by making it weak to the first two gyms.)
  • They really need to get an accurate move. Rock type's gimmick is that they have strong moves, but they aren't 100% accurate. That's pretty cool. You know what else is cool? Those two Rock Slides I hit today. Out of 7.

Rock is my favourite ever type, but... you kind of have a point. :D

I think they could have handled it better, maybe drop the weaknesses to grass and water so you don't end up with so many 4x weaknesses on what is supposed to be a defensive type, maybe throw in a few more resistances so it can be a sort of steel-lite and at least slightly viable as a slow, bulky type?

Also, 'high power, low accuracy' would work a bit better if they had any proper high power moves. Earthquake is 100 BP, 100% accuracy, and 10 PP, whereas Stone Edge gets the same power with 1/5 less accuracy and half the PP?

Also, unrelated but I always try to breed a Hustle Corsola with Head Smash. It's... Honestly, It's lacklustre, even in game. :D
 
Rock is my favourite ever type, but... you kind of have a point. :D

I think they could have handled it better, maybe drop the weaknesses to grass and water so you don't end up with so many 4x weaknesses on what is supposed to be a defensive type, maybe throw in a few more resistances so it can be a sort of steel-lite and at least slightly viable as a slow, bulky type?

Also, 'high power, low accuracy' would work a bit better if they had any proper high power moves. Earthquake is 100 BP, 100% accuracy, and 10 PP, whereas Stone Edge gets the same power with 1/5 less accuracy and half the PP?

Also, unrelated but I always try to breed a Hustle Corsola with Head Smash. It's... Honestly, It's lacklustre, even in game. :D

Hm, Grass and Water represent forms of erosion which, aside from smashing them with force (Fighting & Steel), is one of the things which break down rocks. There's really no weakness you can remove from Rock that wouldn't make sense why it's gone. As for more resistances, hmm, maybe Bug & Fairy? I would say Poison but acidity is part of Poison and acid breaks down rocks.

Though speaking of Bug, I think it should get a second look at since way too many types resist it. I think we can safely remove Fairy, Fighting, and Ghost being resistant to it, maybe also Poison. But I think I'll stop here otherwise I'd start completely rewriting the Type Chart (though some people will probably say it needs it).

Also Earthquake is high power & 100% Accuracy due to several factors: (1.) Flying-types and Pokemon with Levitate are immune. (2.) It also hits allies in Double Battles. But yeah, we could use a decently high powered (maybe 90-95 Power) Physical Rock-type move with at least 100% Accuracy.

And I'm not surprise Head Smash Corsola ain't so great, it only has 55 Attack.
 
Well I remember at the time of release a lot of people were mad it replaced secret bases (I was too really).

Never understood the point of secret bases. They were all in stupid places and I never had anyone to mix records with so it was just a room for me. Why when I could just go home and have a room there? I liked the Room decorating in GS, but the secret base thing was so bad in comparison. Underground was only really better as you could get Spiritomb from doing it. I'd rather have a nice bedroom back home (or the Villa in Gen 5) than a "Secret base"... Why is it secret? It's not like the whole continent doesn't know who you are :/
 
Imo the snow routes were annoying. I mean sure, they might be like, decent to look at but then you realise how long it is, and imo it's far to long. It also doesn't help that at many points there's snow which slows you down and it's very annoying. I don't really have an issue with the mountain routes there like the mountain/cave routes from other gens. With the backtracking routes, I can see why they gave you the option. Not many people want to spend 10 minutes to get from A to B when it could be done in 1. There is a point where immersion turns into annoyance. Your probably thinking of the Vanillite Line, and I like them to :)
Yeah, I know a lot a people don't like slow routes and find them annoying and the same goes for backtracking. But oh well, I was awestruck by it but I won't claim they're exciting or whatever, because I'm well aware they're not lol. I'm just easy to please and amuse—to me, Route 217 was incredibly relaxing and nice to look at ( granted I always have a ton of repels stored, but who doesn't? ) so I could spend hours on it ( and I did at some point ). As for the backtracking, I can see why it could turn into an annoyance for several people but I, personally, thought of it as an opportunity to visit and explore everything a second time in case I had missed something the first time around.

Yup that's the evolutionary line I'm thinking of, and I mean c'moon how can people not like Icecream, and it even looks all fancy with a crystal-cone thing and ornaments. Never understood why it got all the hate it undeservingly did imo :(

Backtrack: I don't feel they implemented the backtrack correctly. Whenever a character offered to skip back to a location I was a bit confused wondering "do I need to back there?", I haven't played through the Hoenn story for a while and while I'm guessing I do need to go back to the location to progress I usually come to that conclusion while playing. Also the offer is a one or done deal, if you don't take it your rival leaves without you (and once they get there they leave you again). What if I want to explore first? Maybe instead of having the rival leave they could decide to hang around (they can use the excuse of looking for more Pokemon) and you can talk with them again to get the offer (and when you arrive to your destination they stay in the city/town until you leave in which case they can vanish until the story needs them again).
Skipping back could be an option but not one forced on you to decide once you're done with what the story wants you to do.
Rival "Yo wanna go back to the lab?"
Me "Sure, I just gotta go and buy something from the store real quick"
Rival " You're on your own then, bye"
Me " ... "

That's sort of what plays out in my head when they just leave you behind for good if you say no.
 
Never understood the point of secret bases. They were all in stupid places and I never had anyone to mix records with so it was just a room for me. Why when I could just go home and have a room there? I liked the Room decorating in GS, but the secret base thing was so bad in comparison. Underground was only really better as you could get Spiritomb from doing it. I'd rather have a nice bedroom back home (or the Villa in Gen 5) than a "Secret base"... Why is it secret? It's not like the whole continent doesn't know who you are :/

Well if you didn't have an tone to mix records with then of course you didn't like secret bases. The best part was searching the region to see where your friends had their base and what they tricked it out with. I always found decorating my base enjoyable, plus it actually was somewhere to use all the money you had. I did like the postgame villa in sinnoh, but it seemed a bit forced and not as customizable. Plus you couldn't battle friends there. Anyway, secret bases are one of the primary reasons why third a fourth gen are my two favorite gens.
 
I guess it would improve GREATLY with the addition of Spot/Streetpass nowadays. I mean Gen III's Secret Base for me went from "Ehhh..." to actually being something big available in the game.
 
The big deal with secret bases, for me, was that you could take a piece of the region and make it your own. You could find a spot on your favourite route, and move in there. You carved out your little place in a hole in a wall, a bush or a tree, and decorated it the way you wanted. Your friends could do the same, and you could go visit their decorated place in their favourite spot, and even battle them. It was so very immersive. What's not to like?

Then Sinnoh came along. Now, you couldn't have your base in the overworld any more. You had to go down into one of the dozens of identical mineshafts, completely separate from the rest of the region (the rest of the game, even), dig out a place in a wall (always a wall, no other options), and build a severely limited base somewhere in the anonymous tunnels. You even had to interact with friends to even unlock the full build space, which was no bigger than it was in Gen III (and you could actually place fewer decorations in them). The Secret Bases felt more like a tacked-on, unnecessarily limited feature, a shadow of its former self. For those who liked Gen III's excellent system, it broke immersion rather than reinforcing it.

Half the charm with Secret Bases was that you chose the location yourself, and could decorate it to your heart's content. Sinnoh's secret base system relegated you to an anonymous hole in an anonymous tunnel, rather than, say, the shrub by the pond or the tree on the hidden beach. ORAS added functionality, such as the ability to heal your Pokémon, access your PC and gather trainers for battle/item lotteries. That makes the base system better than it ever was, now all I wish for is that they retain it for the next generations. Maybe having bigger bases wouldn't hurt either, but... well, gotta start somewhere.
 
Rock is my favourite ever type, but... you kind of have a point. :D

I think they could have handled it better, maybe drop the weaknesses to grass and water so you don't end up with so many 4x weaknesses on what is supposed to be a defensive type, maybe throw in a few more resistances so it can be a sort of steel-lite and at least slightly viable as a slow, bulky type?

Also, 'high power, low accuracy' would work a bit better if they had any proper high power moves. Earthquake is 100 BP, 100% accuracy, and 10 PP, whereas Stone Edge gets the same power with 1/5 less accuracy and half the PP?

Also, unrelated but I always try to breed a Hustle Corsola with Head Smash. It's... Honestly, It's lacklustre, even in game. :D

Earthquake is 100 percent accurate because it's...an earthquake. Moves should be as accurate as the concepts behind them suggest they should be.

Gokuzbu said:
Unova just put too much on it's plate, they had to introduce 156 Pokémon (the most ever) so they couldn't take the time to get each one just right. That's why the gen 6 Pokémon are almost all so damn cool.
I think people write off the overall gen V group because of the shitty starters. They were pretty solid.
 
I think people write off the overall gen V group because of the shitty starters. They were pretty solid.

I don't really find the starters "shit" tbh. Samurott and Emboar are fine (Serperior is another matter but we all know about that). I never found using either of them hard in game or anything.

Earthquake is 100 percent accurate because it's...an earthquake. Moves should be as accurate as the concepts behind them suggest they should be.

The move "Twister" is 100% accurate and that makes sense but Hurricane should be 100% accurate, I mean if you can't dodge a twister how can you dodge a hurricane at all. It's not like I can just avoid it.
 
I don't really find the starters "shit" tbh. Samurott and Emboar are fine (Serperior is another matter but we all know about that). I never found using either of them hard in game or anything.
Serperior is awesome. Samurott is fine; Emboar is garbage. But that they're "shitty" isn't necessarily my opinion. I just meant that it seems to be the consensus.

The move "Twister" is 100% accurate and that makes sense but Hurricane should be 100% accurate, I mean if you can't dodge a twister how can you dodge a hurricane at all. It's not like I can just avoid it.
Agreed. They fucked up.
 
The move "Twister" is 100% accurate and that makes sense but Hurricane should be 100% accurate, I mean if you can't dodge a twister how can you dodge a hurricane at all. It's not like I can just avoid it.

Well, Hurricane has a much more mundane name in japanese (Gale), which admittedly still fails to acknowledge the fact it can miss. But well, there are moves like Heat Wave, which are also wind-based, that can also miss so whatever.
 
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