Serious LGBTQ

[ryan]

It sounds like your parents are probably disappointed that their son isn't straight, which I think is reasonable given how they were probably raised. I've known plenty of parents who were perfectly accepting of LGBTQ+ people until it was their own kid, at which point things got muddled. Your parents haven't yet come to the understanding that this is fundamentally who you are, so they still have that glimmer of hope that maybe you're just naive and looking to rebel or be different or whatever.

This is pretty much exactly how things happened for me when I was younger. My mom started out with this indifferent facade, where she didn't care because "it's not like I'm sleeping with him anyways," but in reality, it made her super uncomfortable and knowing she could do nothing to change it made her angry. It was like she was being held hostage by my sexuality until the moment when she finally realized it wasn't this awful thing that needed to be changed. My dad is still uncomfortable with my sexuality and likely always will be, even if I one day bring home a guy who I plan to marry. We both know he's uncomfortable about it, so to spare both of us, I just don't really mention it around him. It sucks sometimes and I make very little effort to see him, but it keeps the harmony and we both know we still love each other.

My case isn't exactly the best possible outcome, but you kind of have to make due with what you've got, right? Either way, you've only been out to them for a few months, and you've still got your entire life ahead of you for you and your parents to figure this thing out. Basically, talk to them. Tell them how you feel, and don't feel guilty about it in the process. Your parents need to understand that they're isolating you, whether they intend to or not. You can't force them to accept you, but you can force them to see what not accepting you is doing to you. You don't want to guilt them into acceptance either, but if you never address the problem, it's only going to get worse. Most importantly, give them time. Their fear for your safety shows they care, even if it is likely unwarranted fear. In time, they'll see that you're happier now than you were before, and that will ease their worries.

 

[dice]

my parents are quite young compared to my peers and they were, luckily, quite accepting (shockingly my dad was). maybe i'm just really bad at covertly going about my sexuality, but my mom has always known i wasn't of a standard test pattern since like age 13. p sure she always knew i was bi (no idea how).

my grandparents, however, are very much of the belief that homosexuality is unnatural. i was very apprehensive about ever telling my grandparents (and even my dad for that matter, but that went smoothly), so i didn't tell them until i was home for easter just for the ironic flair. tbh they reacted in a manner similar to ur parents-- confusion, questioning, etc. approaching family members compared to your typical ignorant person is a super hard dynamic to tackle, and i totally understand a lot of your frustrations. without being queer yourself, it's hard to empathize that it's as natural as being straight-- unconscious cultural imprinting or inevitable biological happenstance aside. people just don't get it. because of this huge disconnect, it's important to just explain the emotional turmoil that this has caused you and how it's natural to you. tbh your parents do seem a bit shocked as of now, but i would definitely explain to them what you find offensive. "you don't really know what you like" is a clear-cut case of gaslighting. framing your qualms in a respectful manner, anecdotally speaking, is pretty effective. "mom, i understand this is something new for both of us, but i would appreciate it if you didn't treat my sexuality as a joke. i've felt like this for years, and it's something that's here to stay"

actually in retrospect that might not be the best choice of words, but you catch my drift... don't let your parents try to guilt trip you though. despite their disappointment and shock, they have no right to hamper your happiness and you should make them aware of that.

 

[Subjugator]

I'm a Heterosexual Christian American Male (and an aspiring Pre-Contributor lol). I have nothing against homosexuality, but I do have a question.

Why was gay marriage outlawed in America for so long? The "Separation of Church and State" means that law cannot mix with religion, yet gay marriage was illegal. I think everybody here knows that the Bible actively speaks against homosexuality, so this being said, how was this illegal for so long?

That's what I was wondering for a while.

 

[Pallas Athena]

I could delve in to the complicated case law and public opinion shifts that enabled fairly rapid progress. But your question is why it didn't happen earlier. And the answer is, fundamentally, that people fear The Other. It's a survival mechanism hardwired in to us. In the best of circumstances we can learn to accept and even embrace The Other because we can transcend basic instinctual fear. Yet throughout history many people in power have exploited The Other in either a cynical power grab or because of their own fear or an effort to maintain their privileged status.

Because, really, your question could just as easily be "why do the government and private firms still have legal ownership of many black bodies" or "why did public facility segregation persist for as long as it did" or "why did it take Americans more than a century to give women the vote" or "why did Slavery exist until at least the 1860s" or "why are we still denying women basic family planning options." Oppression is one of the default features of human societies and it doesn't end by itself. Our nation doesn't just progress on its own. People have to fight tooth and nail for decades to make changes.

 

[sunny004]

If you want an answer from a legal standpoint (Removing direct religion bias):

On the state level, Republican state legislatures wanted to protect "The Church's right to marry who they choose"
On a federal level, Republican (Coincidence? I think not) congressmen "Didn't want to have federal oversight over the decisions of the state"

Although the above reasons were probably made law mostly because of the fear of "The Other" in the above post.

(BTW I have not and never will support bigoted laws like what I stated above, just trying to provide some insight)

 

[dice]

there are a litany of reasons that make social reform such a drawn-out process. as exhibited in the recent target outburst, a vocal minority of extreme reactionaries can cause quite the hurdle. it's easy to masquerade ignorance and fear by Looking Out For Our Women And Children. at the end of the day, queers are the easiest party to scapegoat. loads of cishet politicans with Family Values can hardly wrap their mind around a man being sexually aroused by another man. a man wanting to be a man? a man not identifying with either gender? get out of here. recently on my facebook feed i stumbled upon a video of obama answering a question from a nonbinary student. here are a few of the top comments:

these politicians can fearmonger so freely because there is also a distinct lack of education regarding gender and sexuality as well. some people disregard this as Woo Woo instead of learning in school about social constructs, dysphoria, self ideation, etc.

tough life.

 

[billymills]

Serious question: do all men identify as male?

 

[TheValkyries]

Yes..... When would that not be true?

 

[Minwu]

I would say that self-IDing as male and being a man are the same thing.

 

[billymills]

The question was directed at dice, who, as I understood him, was surprised that were some people who couldn't wrap their mind around

a man not identifying with either gender.

I thought that a man meant self-IDing as male (like you both have said).

Did I misunderstand, or is there something else I'm not getting?

 

[vonFiedler]

I don't think that me not identifying with my gender (which I don't) changes it.

 

[MAMP]

I don't think that me not identifying with my gender (which I don't) changes it.

If you don't identify with your gender, then it's not your gender

 

[vonFiedler]

If you don't identify with your gender, then it's not your gender

I don't identify as American either, yet it's on my passport.

I realized at a young age that hetero-normative ideas of what applies to gender binaries and how they apply to people (and especially me) don't mean dick. That never meant that there was a void to fill. I don't identify as gender neutral, I refuse to have a gender identity, I refuse to be a ze, a they, or anything that has no reason to identify me as if my penis not being who I am means my penis not being who I am is who I am. It all means nothing to me, and saying that I'm not a man, which by random chance is my sex, is labeling me in a way I don't want. I don't identify with being male, meaning that it's not a formative part of who I am, but when you say I'm not male, you force me to identify as something else, and I'm not interested in that. If somehow that's a wrong way to look at myself, if you think there IS a wrong way for me to look at myself, then I feel there's major hypocrisy at work.

 

[MAMP]

I don't identify as American either, yet it's on my passport.

I realized at a young age that hetero-normative ideas of what applies to gender binaries and how they apply to people (and especially me) don't mean dick. That never meant that there was a void to fill. I don't identify as gender neutral, I refuse to have a gender identity, I refuse to be a ze, a they, or anything that has no reason to identify me as if my penis not being who I am means my penis not being who I am is who I am. It all means nothing to me, and saying that I'm not a man, which by random chance is my sex, is labeling me in a way I don't want. I don't identify with being being male, meaning that it's not a formative part of who I am, but when you say I'm not male, you force me to identify as something else, and I'm not interested in that. If somehow that's a wrong way to look at myself, if you think there IS a wrong way for me to look at myself, then I feel there's major hypocrisy at work.

alright, i get what you mean now, i misinterpreted what you were saying in ur original post. sorry for the kinda aggressive tone of my post, i wasnt trying to insinuate that your identity was wrong in any way and if thats how i came across then i apologise for that.

 

[vonFiedler]

It's not you. I didn't explain at all the first time, though it's obviously not something I like to talk about. I just couldn't stand these bold declarations that make me, lack of a better term, the odd man out.

 

[dice]

If you don't identify with your gender, then it's not your gender

i agree with von. although our own perceptions and feelings may be mercurial, we are still pigeonholed into certain groups for society's sake. so, while it may not be what you identify as, you still have existential ties to it. the ongoing bathroom debate is just one of many demonstrations of this fact.

 

[Porpoise]

I think there's a difference between identifying with your sex and identifying with your gender. It's possible to say that you are, for example, a male, but not a man, or a female but not a woman, or a man but not male, or a woman but not female. It's all just different ways of expressing and interpreting oneself.

 

[Hektor]

Yeah, strictly speaking no labels should be necessary, because each word means different things to different people anyways and, as von pointed out (apologies for the impending oversimplification), not everyone wants to be labeled in the first place.

But, and this ties back into the education point someone raised on the last page, society simply isn't ready to do the "respect each individual" thing yet. We still get scapegoated and discriminated against because equal treatment doesn't come naturally to humans. We're still (scientifically) animals, like it or not, and with that comes a basic "us or them" survival instinct that makes us afraid of those different from ourselves. Thanks to that lovely feature of our history, we have been and will continue having a rough time getting traction for that ideal. I just try to meet people where they're at, and not work miracles in every conversation. And yes, there'll be people who spit in my metaphorical face (I hope not literally), but if I can smooth the road for our efforts, I'll consider myself successful.

The story of Ohio Senator Rob Portman accepting his son when he came out as homosexual kind of encapsulates the point I'm trying to make. Once he could empathize with our issues, he came around despite his party line saying otherwise. The reaction across the conservative faction of our country was the downside: peer pressure to continue allowing discrimination and the calling of people who are trying to be reasonable "traitors". Society as a whole may not be ready for our ideals, but there is hope for individuals.

 

[dhelmise]

I didn't really want to make a post about this but I feel trapped.

Basically, I want to come out to my parents as gay sometime soon. The thing is though, my parents are heavily religious and disapprove of anyone who isn't cis-gendered and/or heterosexual. However, it's getting to a point where the pain of hiding myself under a charade is getting exponentially worse than my fear of being abandoned. To make this worse, I've had a girlfriend for about the past month to just hide myself, and she always wants to just kiss me, and every time we DO kiss, I want to go into another room and ball my eyes out. I also can't just not kiss her either, because she's one of the people who are like "If you don't want to kiss me then you're definitely a fagg*t." And while I can just go along with my day and deny it, it hurts me a ton to deny myself and it makes me feel the same. I want to cry almost all the time now.

I'm stuck. I want to be free. Please help. It's getting to the point where I'm running out of options.

 

[Albert.]

I didn't really want to make a post about this but I feel trapped.

Basically, I want to come out to my parents as gay sometime soon. The thing is though, my parents are heavily religious and disapprove of anyone who isn't cis-gendered and/or heterosexual. However, it's getting to a point where the pain of hiding myself under a charade is getting exponentially worse than my fear of being abandoned. To make this worse, I've had a girlfriend for about the past month to just hide myself, and she always wants to just kiss me, and every time we DO kiss, I want to go into another room and ball my eyes out. I also can't just not kiss her either, because she's one of the people who are like "If you don't want to kiss me then you're definitely a fagg*t." And while I can just go along with my day and deny it, it hurts me a ton to deny myself and it makes me feel the same. I want to cry almost all the time now.

I'm stuck. I want to be free. Please help. It's getting to the point where I'm running out of options.

As bad as it might be for you right now, you should only come out to your parents if you feel as if you're in a safe environment to do so. Once you come out to them, there's no going back, so you should really think it through before doing so. I know it's not really the best advice, but your safety is a big priority.

As for the situation with your girlfriend, if you really feel that way, you should just break up with her (especially if she thinks "if you don't want to kiss (her) then you're definitely a fagg*t"). I assume that you tried to use your girlfriend as a way to cover up your sexuality, but I don't really think it's worth it if it's causing you to feel this way. Nothing is worse than feeling like you're trapped and there's no way to escape what's hurting you.

I'm not really the best person to be giving advice about coming out, since I haven't had to do so, but if you ever need someone to just vent to, I'll be here.

 

[Nat]

So, I’ve finally worked up the courage and feel ready enough to make this post. Every time I feel like writing on this thread or coming out anywhere else, my anxiety gets the better of me and ultimately drives me away from it. Today I’m not letting that happen. While I’m quite frankly extremely inactive on forums, I feel that posting this will help me a sense. I’m trans-female.

I have known that I’m trans-female for a long time. I always suppressed these feelings growing up, since I really had nobody I felt comfortable openly talking with. While I love my family because they’re the only one I have, they’re not exactly the most open-minded of people. Risking them not understanding just hasn’t been worth it to me. I don’t have any friends that I feel truly comfortable talking face to face with either. Even in the rare moments I build up enough temporary courage to want to talk to someone, I just shutdown and don’t say anything.

I’m just tired of living as someone I’m not. I want to look and feel pretty. I want to be able to dress up, and do everything else that goes with it. I just want what I imagine most people want, which is to be accepted for who they truly are. I just want to be a girl.

I’d like to add that I heavily prefer female pronouns, and I hope that my friends and fellow users alike can respect this. I also want to give a big thanks to some of my wonderful friends who have supported me relentlessly. Without the support of Scyther NO Swiping, miltankmilk, Eyan, ShinySopheon, and Jarii I probably wouldn’t be writing this today. Maybe one day I’ll find the courage to talk to somebody in real life, but for now I’m happy enough to have gotten this far.

Anyway, that’s about all I have to say. Thanks for taking the time to learn a little bit about me.

 

[Minwu]

Forcing someone to kiss you (and saying shit like that to justify it) is abusive regardless of relationship status/sexual orientation, but it hurts worse if you're forcing yourself into a relationship with them. Hope you don't have to feel that way anymore Rhythms. Losing support from your parents at 14 could really hurt, so I dunno what I'd do in your situation. How does your town, or more importantly, your school treat LGBT people? Is there maybe a support group you can find? You might find friends at a local GSA (Gay-Straight Alliance) or GSM (Gender&Sexual Minority) to help lift some of the emotional burden.

 

[Ditto]

Hey all,

I'm currently in Post Production for my thesis film, Straight Outta Closet, and I wanted to thank the people in this thread for being a source of inspiration for it. While I haven't been very active on the site in awhile, I did check in on several sections and threads. This was one of them. So if people don't mind, I'd like to share a little something I wrote about the project.

"Straight Outta Closet is a reversal of the coming out story that shows a different side to it. Seth, a heterosexual man who everyone thinks is gay, struggles telling his homosexual best friends that he's straight.

My undergrad was in Musical Theatre and, as stereotypical as it may sound, many of my friends and classmates during that time were gay. Most of them still are. Over the years I had heard many different stories from different people about coming out, whether it be someone coming out to their friends, family, or even themselves. I saw the pain in some of my best friends’ eyes as they struggled with their sexuality.

There’s a lot of media that highlights the many struggles that LGBT people have endured, and continue to endure, over countless years of discrimination. I don’t want to belittle those struggles, because I feel they’ve been belittled enough by many others. At the same time though, I feel that this attention can potentially create more fear in the closeted or questioning members of the community. In Straight Outta Closet, Seth struggles to come out to his friends. It’s his struggle within himself to say something. After the initial shock of Seth’s heterosexuality, Angelica and Jack continuously try to tell Seth that they accept him. This isn’t a story about winning over friends. Instead the main struggle is that Seth keeps interrupting their words of acceptance. The build up of fear in Seth is the only thing standing in his way. In the end, it doesn’t take any special words to show that they accept Seth. All Angelica and Jack have to do is just continue to treat him the same and Seth finally realizes he’s been accepted the whole time.

Why did I make this film? I wanted to show a lighter side to coming out. I wanted to show that there are already people that accept you. I’m not saying that there aren’t struggles, but just showing that it doesn’t have to be only about the struggles."

So to everyone who might read this, I want you to know that there are many here that accept you for who you are. Not everyone in life is going to, but lean on us if you need. It can get better, but you need to help us help you. Don't feel afraid to show who you truly are to people, even if maybe it isn't everyone. I wish you all the best of luck, and humbly thank you once again.

 

[dhelmise]

As bad as it might be for you right now, you should only come out to your parents if you feel as if you're in a safe environment to do so. Once you come out to them, there's no going back, so you should really think it through before doing so. I know it's not really the best advice, but your safety is a big priority.

As for the situation with your girlfriend, if you really feel that way, you should just break up with her (especially if she thinks "if you don't want to kiss (her) then you're definitely a fagg*t"). I assume that you tried to use your girlfriend as a way to cover up your sexuality, but I don't really think it's worth it if it's causing you to feel this way. Nothing is worse than feeling like you're trapped and there's no way to escape what's hurting you.

I'm not really the best person to be giving advice about coming out, since I haven't had to do so, but if you ever need someone to just vent to, I'll be here.

i also think you should weigh the risk and reward of telling them about this at this point in your life. it doesn't sound like you have much to gain from it. i would wait to tell them until you move out, unless you feel that sometime over the next few years you can convince them there's nothing wrong with being homosexual. i mean... you don't need their approval to be yourself. you don't need their permission to have a boyfriend. you certainly don't need to confide in them about it; tell your friends you're gay if you haven't already and lean on them for advice. if someone rejects you for coming out to them then they're not really worthy of being your friend in the first place. if you don't want to do that, there's plenty of people on smogon that would be willing to talk to you one-on-one about any problems you might have, myself included. in your position i would think hard about whether it really would be a weight off your shoulders to tell them; it's not always gonna be some awesome cathartic experience when you come out. i was able to grow comfortable about my sexuality through only hard self-examination and my group of friends both online and offline. i didn't need the support and guidance of my parents to be satisfied with who i am and i totally think you can be the same way.

i also think you don't need a girlfriend to hide your sexuality from your parents, especially if she makes you feel uncomfortable about yourself. you should break up with her as soon as possible. the fact that you had one will likely be enough to convince your parents you're straight. even if you hadn't started a relationship with her, they'd probably still assume you're straight because it doesn't sound like they want to think otherwise and that's the societal norm. i mean, plenty of people your age don't have girlfriends. you don't assume a person is gay just because they don't have a girlfriend, do you? even if you think it's really obvious you're gay, i'm sure most other people won't; others simply don't pay that much attention and nobody's gonna know you better than yourself.

understand that in this sort of situation it's important to feel as comfortable and confident as possible and she's holding you back from this. you don't need her; from personal experience, having a girlfriend/boyfriend in high school is massively overrated anyway.

just try to surround yourself with people that support you and ignore or weed the ones that don't out of your life. this is the best way to be comfortable with circumstances you can't control.

I've tried breaking up with her many times, and not once has she not threatened to say the same "what a (BAN ME PLEASE)"-esque things.

I'm not really replying to anything else you two said other than: thank you for the advice.

you are a dick if you date girls and you are gay

thanks for the input dickbutt

Forcing someone to kiss you (and saying shit like that to justify it) is abusive regardless of relationship status/sexual orientation, but it hurts worse if you're forcing yourself into a relationship with them. Hope you don't have to feel that way anymore Rhythms. Losing support from your parents at 14 could really hurt, so I dunno what I'd do in your situation. How does your town, or more importantly, your school treat LGBT people? Is there maybe a support group you can find? You might find friends at a local GSA (Gay-Straight Alliance) or GSM (Gender&Sexual Minority) to help lift some of the emotional burden.

So my state is a blue state, except my county is a red one. A lot of people have the same mindset as my parents when it comes to gender/sexuality, as in they don't like to stray away from the norms. There is only one other LGBTQ+ person that I know of in my county and they have the mindset of "if I suck my boy God's dick good he gonna make me straight again ;0" which sickens me. There isn't a GSA/M in my school because it's a religious-oriented one, and all GSA/Ms in my county are basically "yeah cool we accept you and all, but just know you're inferior to us and are going to hell."

m8 your gf sounds like an absolute cunt

y

 

[tcr]

Like you have room to call someone a dick. I doubt anyone here wants to be judged.

hey just chiming in, while macle can be not the best person sometimes hes in the right here. I'm sorry but if you're dating someone of the opposite sex for the purpose of keeping a facade of being straight then you're honestly no different than the people who just use their gf / bf for sex.

On another note, "no one here wants to be judged" sorry dude but if you are going to be a dick you cant just hide behind be a minority / your sexuality as being free from jusgement. It sounds to me like all you guys want is some sort of hive mind pity party post which in no way stimulates conversation or help absolve rhythms problems

Like you're dating someone who obviously has feelings for you that just aren't being reciprocated, that's incredibly unfair for the other party, all because you see her as some sort of means to keep up appearances. I'm not gay myself, but my advice would be to just trust your parents to love you for who you are, rather than some superficial thing like gender / sexuality / whatever. They're your parents bro, even if they're incredibly religious I'm sure they'll at least respect your rights to yourself, and even if you don't want to go the sentimental route you could probably keep in mind that as long as you are under 18 they are legally obligated to care for you. Also please just break up with the girl, you could even just tell your parents that you guys had a fight or something, that shit happens all the time in hetero relationships.
Like the girl cares for you and if the feelings aren't being reciprocated then it really really sucks for whoever it is, especially if its a long-term relationship.

also don't just be straight up cunts to macle lol, he's absolutely right. sure its abusive to try to "force kisses" or whatever but its even worse to force a relationship that will never and should never work out. If you must just don't date people until you are independent and move out on your own away from your traditional values family / state.