Resource ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V5 (See Page 43 - Post #1063)

[Creator of Chaos]

Seeing only one S pokemon in the viability ranks is surprising. I feel like S has become A+, and Clef should in reality be S+

The Way S was before it was to easy for pokemon to enter and I greatly prefer the new system. S rank should be as it is now for the best of the best, pokemon that can consistently beat there checks, master any job, overcome counters and meta trends while fitting on nearly anyteam which right now only fits clefable. Other pokemon like Lop, Thundo, Metagross, Torn T and Keldeo have come close to this in the past and were clearly meta defining pokemon but each lacked the ability to overcome there counters and were vulnerable to other trends unlike clefable whom even when the meta was against her clearly remained the best. A/A+ is perfect for current trend setters and splashable pokemon.

S+ is only ever used for Borked crap that shouldn't be legal anyway like mega-mance or Aegisslash. If you ever see a a mon ranked S+ theres a good chance it's about to be banhammered

 

[Tramuntana]

Don't you mean staraptor decerves C ?
He's already C- and your messages means that you want to upgrade its rank.

Oh, sorry, it's just that I didn't see him anywhere and tought it had gone unranked for some reason. I wonder how did I miss it. But yeah, I feel that he should be at the very least on the same rank as M-Pidgeot. He deserves a C. Not even dedicated physical walls like to swich on him, and VoltTurn cores also appreciate that raw power

 

[eden]

Mega Latias -> A

Mega Latias has been on the rise for quite a while, and is in general alongside MScizor probably the premier mega for balanced/bulky offensive teams. Sporting extremely useful resists by virtue of its typing(which has become more valuable with the release of Volcanion), and having an excellent speed tier is why I'm pushing it for a rise. MLatias hazard stack has been an effective play style for quite a decent while, and thanks to reflect type it is one of the few checks/counter to threats such as Manaphy,Keldeo,ZardY that can escape being Pursuit trapped. Latias is obviously not splashable to the extent of the A+, but it is an extremely solid -pick in the current meta and the vr's should definitely reflect this

Mega Gyarados -> B+

Mega Gyarados is a solid mon but I feel like it struggles to find openings to set up, and while it can clean up an opposing team, often requires enough support to do so to the point where a different mega could probably do the same thing while either offering a better speed tier, and/or more immediate power. Mega Gyarados' best teams to fit on are probably HO's that need a way to setup on Choice locked Keldeo and/or a way to not be overly threatened by Bisharp; also a variety of metagame trends go against it, starting with one of its premier counters being extremely splashable to point of being A+ as well as a variety of extremely solid checks being seen extremely frequently, is what makes me nominate this to move a rank down.

 

[tigers jaw]

idk can someone please tell me why rhyperior is still ranked? the thing is terrible. outclassed by hippo/lando as a defensive talon/zard/general physical wall thanks to hippo's recovery and lando's actual speed stat, and outclassed (or as near as makes no difference, i know someone is gonna show me a wall of calcs but bleh in an actual battle) as a rock-type cb breaker by tar and terrak. i'd rather actually outspeed some shit with my breaker than p much always be forced to take a hit, which considering its abysmal typing and spdef, is pretty much always going to be very significant.

seriously the majority of the time i'm using it i win without it leaving the ball or it's nothing more than a sack/one-time rocks

 

[Icing On Da Cake]

CB Rhyperior has the most defense of all the three CB wallbreakers, making it a better check to stuff like Zard X and Mega Pinsir (cc rekts ttar and terrakion is relatively frail). It is much bulkier than Terrakion (terrak also only outdamages if using cc, but rhyperior is BARELY outdamaged ill post calcs proving this down below) and bulkier and more powerful than Tyranitar consistently (even vs slowbro as cb rhyperior's megahorn > cb ttar's crunch ill post calcs below proving this), so it finds a small niche as a wallbreaker that is able to put out a huge amount of damage while being a better check to the threats mentioned above. It is true that Terrakion's speed and access to Close Combat's power and Tyranitar's ability to Pursuit trap are both huge reasons to use them over Rhyperior, but my points above prove that rhyp isn't totally outclassed by them. Tyrantrum is also cool with rock head head smash, but its bulk is lower than both rhyperior and ttar, and its much slower than terrakion. It's not like D rank is a high level anyway, so rhyperior is fine there atm.

252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 166-196 (49.8 - 58.8%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Rhyperior Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 162-192 (48.6 - 57.6%) -- 52.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Yes, terrakion has a slightly higher chance to kill, but the difference isn't THAT large and rhyperior still isnt THAT much outdamaged

252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro: 302-356 (76.6 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Rhyperior Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro: 312-368 (79.1 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Yeah, yeah, also a small difference, but it proves Rhyperior is stronger

 

[13_luckynumber]

Why are Kingdra (B), Mega Swampert (B-), Kabutops (B-) and Omastar (C+) ranked so high?

First, they realistically find their place on only 1 kind of team: rain offence. This is a small niche considering that rain is extremely match-up reliant.
Second, in the rain offence archetype, you always have to use Politoed so that leaves you with only 5 slots to build a team. Using any one of these reduces that number to 4, 2 reduces to 3 and so on. That is a lot of constraints on teambuilding. There's just no way around it.
Third, even on rain teams, aside from Kingdra maybe, Mega Swampert, Kabutops and Omastar are not even the -must use- choices for the build. In an already small niche, they are not even the best at what they do.

What I'm trying to say is that these 4 require a lot of support to function correctly in an archetype that is not that great in the first place, their ranks should be lowered. C rank for Kingdra and C- for the other 3 is more appropriate. Kingdra should definitely be higher than the other 3.

Poltioed (B) shoud also move down. It single-handedly makes an archetype viable and gives a lot of Pokemon their niche in OU but that's all it has going for it. It is only ever used on Rain offence and no where else. The support it gives is great but is very niche. I think it should move down to C+.

So:
Politoed down to C+
Kingdra down to C
Mega Swampert, Kabutops, Omastar down to C-

 

[tigers jaw]

CB Rhyperior has the most defense of all the three CB wallbreakers, making it a better check to stuff like Zard X and Mega Pinsir (cc rekts ttar and terrakion is relatively frail). It is much bulkier than Terrakion (terrak also only outdamages if using cc, but rhyperior is BARELY outdamaged ill post calcs proving this down below) and bulkier and more powerful than Tyranitar consistently (even vs slowbro as cb rhyperior's megahorn > cb ttar's crunch ill post calcs below proving this), so it finds a small niche as a wallbreaker that is able to put out a huge amount of damage while being a better check to the threats mentioned above. It is true that Terrakion's speed and access to Close Combat's power and Tyranitar's ability to Pursuit trap are both huge reasons to use them over Rhyperior, but my points above prove that rhyp isn't totally outclassed by them. Tyrantrum is also cool with rock head head smash, but its bulk is lower than both rhyperior and ttar, and its much slower than terrakion. It's not like D rank is a high level anyway, so rhyperior is fine there atm.

Yeah no great and all but the bulk is fucking pointless vs. any team that has a Mon with >137 speed (which is apparently the standard speed for cb rhyp for base 50s). Yes it makes a good check to Zard X but that really has dropped off in relevancy since the last time I saw its presence used in defence of Rhyperior, and Mega Pinsir (which is even less relevant than zard) is still killing rhyp after rocks with a +2 cc half the time anyway (100% of the time if adamant which isn't too bad), which it isn't doing to terrakion with +2 quick attack, so in reality, cb terrak is actually a better mega pinsir check than cb rhyp.

also lol your calcs are cool but you forget to factor in the lack of reliability that stone edge/megahorn have. they miss, cc and crunch don't. i know you were just trying to give examples of its strength, which i'm perfectly aware of already, but i don't give a fuck about such a small difference when Terrakion and Tar bring so much more to the table.

I really think you need stop looking at this in a vacuum and ask if you can seriously justify using it over Terrakion (primarily this) or Tyranitar, and even if you can (which you shouldn't be able to), you need to ask whether or not it truly deserves ranking based on such a small "niche", which is fucking tiny, truth be told

 

[Icing On Da Cake]

Yeah no great and all but the bulk is fucking pointless vs. any team that has a Mon with >137 speed (which is apparently the standard speed for cb rhyp for base 50s).

It's not like CB Tyranitar is a speed demon itself, even though outspeeding Skarm with little investment is nice.

Yes it makes a good check to Zard X but that really has dropped off in relevancy since the last time I saw its presence used in defence of Rhyperior

Zard X usage may have fallen a bit, but it doesn't mean that good checks to it aren't still appreciated, as it's still a big threat.

Mega Pinsir (which is even less relevant than zard) is still killing rhyp after rocks with a +2 cc half the time anyway (100% of the time if adamant which isn't too bad), which it isn't doing to terrakion with +2 quick attack, so in reality, cb terrak is actually a better mega pinsir check than cb rhyp.

Yes, it's true that +2 cc has a good chance to kill rhyperior, and terrakion can eat +2 quick attack, but terrakion is unable to switch in at all, and rhyperior's superior defense helps it actually check threats defensively, and it can also do some other cool things like eat up stuff like garchomp's eq and lopunny's high jump kick without much of an issue, which is nice for situations where you have to deal emergency damage and taking a hit to DEAL that damage is greatly appreciated for those dire situations.

also lol your calcs are cool but you forget to factor in the lack of reliability that stone edge/megahorn have. they miss, cc and crunch don't.

Yeah, Stone Edge's infamous tendency to miss is unfortunate, but accuracy shouldnt be a huge factor in viability imo just look at torn-t its lo set is god and hurricane doesnt stop that from being a indisputable fact

Also 13_luckynumber, Mega Swampert (kinda on the fence on this dropping tho but its bulk and ability to stop volt switch spam is appreciated and only to c+ if anything), Kabutops, and Omastar do not deserve to be in the same rank as chesnaught and mega aggron, kingdra with azelf, and politoed with scolipede. Rain has been taking L's with the loss of perma Drizzle, but rain is still a threatening form of offense today. Unless you have some solid ass water resists, it can rip through many teams without that much issues,and there are ways around those resists anyway, like torn-t tha god, sd kabutops, kingdra (drop that draco on tangrowth), hazard stacking, and more.

 

[13_luckynumber]

Also 13_luckynumber, Mega Swampert (kinda on the fence on this dropping tho but its bulk and ability to stop volt switch spam is appreciated and only to c+ if anything), Kabutops, and Omastar do not deserve to be in the same rank as chesnaught and mega aggron, kingdra with azelf, and politoed with scolipede. Rain has been taking L's with the loss of perma Drizzle, but rain is still a threatening form of offense today. Unless you have some solid ass water resists, it can rip through many teams without that much issues,and there are ways around those resists anyway, like torn-t tha god, sd kabutops, kingdra (drop that draco on tangrowth), hazard stacking, and more.

I'm aware of the positive sides of rain. However, all of the points you made doesn't debunk the fact that the Pokemon mentioned in my original post are still extremely niche (found on only one 1 archetype, requires tons of support, match-up reliant, not even the best at what they do aside from maybe Kingdra). Kingdra can drop Draco/ Ice Beam on Tangrowth but that requires you to be bold with your prediction on the Specs set (best set). Even then, it can pivot around due to Regenerator.

Water resist is something most teams pack anyway due to Volcanion, Keldeo, Starmie and Manaphy and to a lesser extent Slowbro, Rotom-W.

 

[Icing On Da Cake]

All of those "water resists" are garbage against rain, except slowbro for physical attackers (still can lose to sd kabutops, especially after hazard / prior damage), and volcanion (which loses to all of them anyway). Stuff like Ferrothorn, Tangrowth, Amoongy, Gastrodon, Jellicent, and Slowking are usually better suited to take hits from rain sweepers for the most part. Tangrowth also gets blown back by tornt (specs this is fun af on rain try it out if you dare) and specs kingdra after rocks, and hazards + repeatedly switching into dracos, scald (burns are annoying af), and ice beams isn't ideal for tangrowth to continuously take.

All of the mentioned rain abusers do definitely function best on rain teams, and rain is the reason they are used, but their performance on those teams is solid enough to make the rain abusers definitely amount to more than just those shitty niche attackers that rarely amount to anything worthwhile at all, like chlorophyll venusaur.

 

[13_luckynumber]

All of those "water resists" are garbage against rain, except slowbro for physical attackers (still can lose to sd kabutops, especially after hazard / prior damage), and volcanion (which loses to all of them anyway). Stuff like Ferrothorn, Tangrowth, Amoongy, Gastrodon, Jellicent, and Slowking are usually better suited to take hits from rain sweepers for the most part. Tangrowth also gets blown back by tornt (specs this is fun af on rain try it out if you dare) and specs kingdra after rocks, and hazards + repeatedly switching into dracos, scald (burns are annoying af), and ice beams isn't ideal for tangrowth to continuously take.

All of the mentioned rain abusers do definitely function best on rain teams, and rain is the reason they are used, but their performance on those teams is solid enough to make the rain abusers definitely amount to more than just those shitty niche attackers that rarely amount to anything worthwhile at all, like chlorophyll venusaur.

I wasn't saying "Volcanion, Keldeo, Starmie and Manaphy and to a lesser extent Slowbro, Rotom-W" are the water resists. I meant teams pack water resists BECAUSE OF them and those resists are what you listed: Ferrothorn, Tangrowth, Amoongy, Gastrodon, Jellicent, and Slowking.

I am not saying that Mega Swampert, Kingdra, etc are bad rain abusers. They are effective. I'm saying that they are very niche mon so they should be ranked lower. If you look at Kingdra, for example, it requires the most support out of all the Pokemon in B rank. I don't see how it is on bar with Togekiss (decent stallbreaker, passable cleric, passable defogger) or Volcanion/ Gyarados/ Dragonite (great wincons), etc. These can be used a variety of archetypes, have some variations in their sets, etc. In C rank, Azelf is about the same as Kingdra in viability: used on only one kind of team (HO for Azelf, rain for Kingdra), excel that the only role they have (Azelf is a great lead, Kingdra is a great wallbreaker), etc.

 

[Of Moose & Men]

I wasn't saying "Volcanion, Keldeo, Starmie and Manaphy and to a lesser extent Slowbro, Rotom-W" are the water resists. I meant teams pack water resists BECAUSE OF them and those resists are what you listed: Ferrothorn, Tangrowth, Amoongy, Gastrodon, Jellicent, and Slowking.

I am not saying that Mega Swampert, Kingdra, etc are bad rain abusers. They are effective. I'm saying that they are very niche mon so they should be ranked lower. If you look at Kingdra, for example, it requires the most support out of all the Pokemon in B rank. I don't see how it is on bar with Togekiss (decent stallbreaker, passable cleric, passable defogger) or Volcanion/ Gyarados/ Dragonite (great wincons), etc. These can be used a variety of archetypes, have some variations in their sets, etc. In C rank, Azelf is about the same as Kingdra in viability: used on only one kind of team (HO for Azelf, rain for Kingdra), excel that the only role they have (Azelf is a great lead, Kingdra is a great wallbreaker), etc.

Well, Quagsire only really fits on one team archetype. Should we move it down? I don't think so. It's about how it performs on that one team archetype that determines its placement. They require rain support, it's unfortunate, yes, but, when you abuse that one team archetype that they are used on, they are deadly and a pain in the ass to deal with. Which is why they are where they are. The rankings aren't advocating for using Kingdra alone, with no rain, it's assumed you have at least a little bit of knowledge on what works where when you enter this thread. Just like you wouldn't use Quag on BO, you shouldn't use rain sweepers on BO. Kingdra is arguably the best Swift Swim 'mon in the tier, it's near impossible to switch into, but it requires support from toed, which is why it's sitting at B. The same goes for all the other Rain exclusive 'mons.

 

[Martin]

Idrc where the rain attackers end up, but they are definitely better in the current meta than Azelf is. Full HO and suicide leads are both pretty bad ATM, whereas rain is actually rather anti-meta given the current trend of lots of BO and with the primary sub-archetypes/trends in Pokémon generally being oretty favoring towards it. Combine this with just how useful an asset Volcanion is for rain, giving it a way of beating Ferrothorn without being detrimental to the functioning of the archetype due to Steam Eruption being boosted from stupid to insane, and it is just really hard to see why the rain attackers should drop them to the same depths as Azelf when the fact is that the meta favors them more than it does Azelf. Also I wanna blow the whistle on this whole "they should drop because they only work on one-archetype" thing because the rankings of Politoed and Kingdra should be representative of the viability of rain as a playstyle in the current meta as opposed to them as standalone Pokémon because they literally /are/ rain. Also look at Pokémon like Quagsire and Alomomola; they are ranked based on their merits on stall; they don't function on other archetypes, so should they drop? Hell no! They are ranked where they are because they are very useful assets to stall as an archetype, and the same applies to the rain Pokémon who aren't Politoed/Kingdra, who should never exceed the ranks of said duo due to the fact that they are ranked for their assets to said playstyle but shouldn't be dropped just because they suck on non-rain builds.

 

[eden]

Pretty sure things are rated here, on the basis of how good they are on the archetype they're meant to be used on. Except for obviously some of the more splashable mons like Landorus-T and stuff but the point stands. How does it matter that something needs support, or even that a play style is matchup based? I'd go so far as to say that the game as it stands now is inherently matchup based, and all we're trying to do is have good match ups versus some/most play styles and acceptable match ups versus others. Kingdra/MPert/Omastar can't be considered in a vacuum, so you should be considering they're effectiveness on they're optimal playstyle; i.e. rain. How Omastar and Kingdra and stuff are outside of rain is irrelevant, why should Kingdra be inherently higher? On what sort of team would you legitimately use Kingdra except for full rain? If anything the only mon on that team that can even possibly be used on another play style is probably MPert, for its value in some cases as a late game win con with Curse, and possibly as a lead because of a good matchup with most of the common leads right now in ORAS OU(it beats TTar/Chomp/MDiancie/Lando-T if they lead), and also being able to block Volt Switch, but again most of those things can be said for far better mons than MPert, and the only place where any judgement of its capabilities(or any rain mon's capabilities) should be made is on rain, where each of the rain sweepers in Kabutops/MPert/Kingdra/Omastar have legitimate niches over the others and are extremely effective on their playstyle.

 

[Leo3103]

Mega Sableye and Garchomp to A+

Garchomp should bump up partially because of his high usage % in the meta but also because I feel he's one of those mons that you have got to have a game plan for on your 6-man squad or you basically lose or have massive holes ripped in your team. He has no safe switch on a CB Outrage set, aside from Scarf guys with an ice attack he's near impossible to revenge kill and he can even be EV'd to withstand an ice attack that isn't stab boosted. He keeps you guessing on what set he's running too, and all are super viable and equally dangerous. I play it as praying I get the Will-O-Wisp off from Rotom-W and then he's much more manageable, or hope it's not a scarf set to where you can revenge kill with another scarf stab (I run Scarf TTar with Ice Punch and even then you get some Rough Skin kick back)

Same goes for Sableye-M, barring a set physical fire sweeper so you can dodge will-o-wisp, which just completely shuts down any other physical attacking set, or your rare Fairy type, he's incredibly difficult to stand toe to toe with, especially the Wisp/Recover/CM/Dark Pulse set. I guess I shouldn't say rare Fairy Type, as not everyone is running Clefable/Diancie-M but even then, you have to take then into battle if you see a Sableye or your odds or winning are very limited


Tldr: They're Mons that you have to have a hard answer/counter or life is very difficult, Garchomp more so because every set of his is viable

 

[eden]

I'd say the set which you're talking about for Chomp should be either the Rocky Helmet set which is a useful check to variety of mons rn such as MLopunny/MGross, or the SD SR Lum set which force SR versus MEye builds. CB Outrage for the most part is an irrelevant set, and so is Scarf for the most part although beating +1 ZardX is really valuable. Yache SD/SubSD Lum probably deserve shoutouts as well. I do second a move to A+ for chomp though, because it is EXTREMELY splasahable rn.

MEye should probably stay where it is, both because the play style where it is seen isn't that viable/good; and also because its bulky/ability to keep hazards off in this metagame is questionable with the meta adapting and stuff like EPLate Lando-T+Dazzling Gleam Spikes for hazard stacking teams becoming more popular, as is SD Lum SR Chomp, also lets not forget the fact that even versus defensive Chomp/Lando-T it has to play a 50/50 each time to block rocks and get hit by either EQ(from Lando-T or Chomp) or Dragon Tail(from Garchomp) which may leave it chipped to the point where it can't effectively block hazards anymore. Granted on stall with Skarmory to defog this becomes less of a problem, but it is definitely worth pointing out.

 

[HailFall]

if chomp rises it shouldnt be for the rocky helmet set. Lando-t is much bulkier after intimidate and better on most teams thanks to it checking sand and having a wide array of options from defensive sd to break clef, to u-turn to keep up momentum, hp ice to hit opposing lando/chomp, etc. Tank chomp is a one trick pony and all it really has over lando is resistance to rock and the ability to check bisharp. They really arent equal in viability imo.

 

[Leo3103]

I don't think Tank Chomp is the only viable set tho, he fits a certain playstyle, but I think a large part as to why you have to bump him is he can fulfill any role on your team to great effect, hole puncher, revenge killer, set up sweeper, defensive rock setter, and all the sets are good, not sure how you'd rank them but they're all playable and deadly.

Good point with MEye, the playstyle doesn't come up as much as some of the others, it's effective tho, not everyone enjoys playing stall, I just feel it's hard to stop even tho it's not widely played. I think it's fine in the rank it is but definitely merits some discussion, and if his usage for some reason goes up he deserves a bump

 

[bludz]

Update time

Tyranitar A -> A+
Terrakion B+ -> A-
Klefki B+ -> B
Nidoking B -> B+
Mandibuzz B- -> C+
Tentacruel C+ -> C
Mega Beedrill C+ -> C-

Ranking team is still talking about:
Garchomp to A+
Hippowdon to B+
and some other things I'm probably forgetting

Discussion slate:
Mega Latias A- -> A
Chansey B+ -> A-
Volcarona B -> B+
Slowking B -> B+
Togekiss B -> B-
Celebi B- -> C+
Zapdos C+ -> B-
Dugtrio D -> C

Other parts of discussion slate:
We felt these are good discussion points as well but may require some explanation especially (spoilers) Charizard Y which may come as a surprise to some

Mega Charizard y A- -> B+
There is no doubt that this pokemon is a ridiculous wallbreaker. However it is really understated how much support it really requires - not only a hazard remover but also a pursuit trapper. These seem like things you might find on common builds anyway but if you actually build with Zard Y you will see exactly how linear these builds turn out. Wish I could find the exact CBB quote but he likened it to something like a small child whose hand needed to be held. That and Mega Latias is pretty common now so there's a big old brick wall if you ever do run into it. So yeah it's sort of just the issue of constrained teambuilding that leads Zard Y teams to be weak to a lot of common wallbreakers with anything resembling a decent speed tier like Medicham or SD Garchomp that are all relatively common, among other things. These are the arguments for why it is being brought up for a drop - of course there are arguments that it should stay in A- as well but I believe it makes more sense to explain the pro-drop argument since this nom might come as kind of a shocker to some.

Mega Slowbro A- -> B+
There are a lot of choices for bulky waters in the tier and picking Mega Slowbro has an undeniable opportunity cost especially when regular Slowbro is so good. Regular Slowbro being good is definitely a point against Mega Bro and not for it - because you can opt for a Slowbro and another Mega, the idea of utilizing your Mega Bro the same as a regular Slowbro early in the match is pretty flawed since you want to avoid letting it get statused (like normal bro often does when it has to check Keldeo or Heatran). Emphasis on hazard stacking in the tier also hurts it since layers of Spikes hurt its ability to perform. As a late game threat you can't really force its action too much early game to support itself given the lack of Leftovers recovery and as mentioned before susceptibility to status. Rise of wallbreakers like Band Tyranitar is also a point against it.

Dragalge B- -> C+
Toxic Spikes are kinda just bad and all the things this checks are based on defensive utility moreso than offensive presence. Too many prediction guessing games on switch-ins because it's so damn slow and honestly not all that strong to begin with. Weak to a ton of the common physical attackers / typings running around and struggles to pull its weight unless you're an offensive variant which is still quite matchup or prediction dependent.

"There are obviously holes in an argument like this but I haven't seen a good Dragalge build since last year" - AM

 

[TURBODERP]

Slowking needs to be bumped up to B+. Should've happened a while ago IMO, but even with the increased presence of BandTar/strong pursuiters, Slowking has a really strong niche with several viable sets (CM Defensive is probably the best [I run more SpDef than normal to beat Mega Diance and Gard without CM boosts, but pure physically defensive is still great], Specs/Nasty Plot hits quite hard and has great coverage, and AV is a good special tank), while really benefiting from the presence of Volcanion (you beat it handily).

 

[Eclipse]

Slowking: B --> B+
Slowking is a very nice mon that provides a lot of utility in the meta currently. Being able to handle Keldeo/Volcanion/Diancie even Latis with ease (watch out for T-Bolt though) is very valuable in the current meta, and it's defensive set provides so much utility. While it obviously doesn't handle physical attackers as well as Slowbro, it's more suited towards handling special attackers and it can certainly perform well against physical attackers with some investment, and Scald always helps too. Some trends like Band-Tar can prove to be annoying for Slowking, but overall it's positive qualities give it a chance to shine in the current meta, and should rise to B+.

Togekiss: B --> B-
Now sure, Togekiss is great at what it does; it demolishes stall builds, and doesn't have to worry about getting pursuit trapped by Band Weavile like Torn and M-Pidgeot do, and performs well vs. a fair amount of slower builds in the meta right now. However, Togekiss is an example of a mon that performs really well vs. certain builds and blows hard vs. other builds (mainly faster builds which are still common). Togekiss' ability to pull its weight in a match depends heavily on matchup, and if that matchup finds itself not in favor of Togekiss, it ends up doing just about nothing, and this is not a quality that a mon in B rank should have. It's still a solid pick due to its matchup vs. slower builds and with proper support from its partners (see: T-Wave) it can attempt to work vs. faster builds, but overall Togekiss ends up being not as consistent as the rest of B rank, and should drop to B- rank as a result.

Dragalge: B- --> C+
I really dislike Dragalge, the positive qualities it has are really overshadowed by its awful speed that really does need investment just to handle certain threats more easily such as Clef which cuts into its bulk, and while it has a solid matchup vs. mons such as Volcanion, Clef, and PhysDef Tangrowth, it ends up being harshly bullied by a multitude of other mons in the meta, mainly Ground types, to the point where it has difficulty performing its roles well. Along with T-Spikes not being very good as of right now, mean that Dragalge is a bit hard to justify using right now, and a drop to C+ rank would be fitting for it.

 

[HailFall]

ooh i like this slate!

Mega Latias A- -> A: Neutral, leaning yes
Mega latias definitely checks a ton of top threats but similarly to mega sableye its forced to constatntly recover against a lot. It also isnt a fan of status/rocks/other passive damage. Havent used the cm sets so i wont comment on the viability of those. That being said, mega latias also has a whole slew of options depending on what your team needs. Its also definitely better than a ton of mons sitting in A- right now like venu, gyara, garde, and a few more. so ehh idk but a rise wouldnt be bad, we can drop it later if we feel its not as good later on

Chansey B+ -> A-: Yes
Chansey is honestly based jesus. Blanket checking nearly every special attacker in the fucking game while being able to threaten switchins with twave. Its incredibly versatile, literally all it needs is soft boiled and seismic toss. you can fill up the remaining moveslots with heal bell, wish, stealth rock, yellow magic, or toxic -- whatever suits your fancy. Chansey offers insane role compression and theres really nothing quite like it. Contrary to ~popular~ opinion i honestly think chansey can work fine on balance as well as stall. The passivity is rediculously overstated and if youve played against twave chansey on balance you should know just how annoying this thing can be to handle. So yes, chansey should rise.

Celebi B- -> C+: Yes
What does this mon do better than tangrowth or amoonguss again...? Rocks i guess?? Perish song??? Trying to fit this thing on a team is a pain in the ass as it really doesnt have much to offer. The np/sd pass set is a thing i guess but its pretty ass. Drop it imo.

Dugtrio D -> C: Yes
Yeah not sure why duggy ever dropped to D in the first place lol. It was fine in C before. It has an established niche that it preforms very well and is useful for some teams. Not much else to say. It should rise.

Dragalge B- -> C+: Yes
Yeah dragalge is kinda underwhelming. Its hard to fit onto a team, and its horrendus speed combined with getting walled by most steels isnt fun. It runs focus but its spa stat is ass so skarm and other fighting neutral steels dont rlly mind it. If you go for the offensive set dragalge hardly has any longevity and cant tank hits for shit. If you go the defensive set dragalge hits like a pea shooter (and has no recovery i might add). This mon is just so niche and hard to make a function effectively. The rise in sand usage doesnt help it either. It should drop, its def not as good as stuff like mola, diggersby or hydra. This feels like a C rank mon to me tbh but im fine with it in C+ for now.

 

[kingmickey27]

i haven't posted here in a while. but after a great battle with bludz, i feel in the mood to post again. and the rankings look amazing btw. Thank you very much for the work you guys (ranking team) put into this resource.

Garchomp: Stays A
I'm with the minority here. I know Garchomp has a lot of fans (and I am one of them because of its sick design). But I don't agree with Garchomp being in A+ right now. Garchomp was previously A+ because of the dominance of its Tank Chomp set. That set has obviously fallen out of favor because of Landorus-T. Offensive sets are much better, I agree. But Offensive Garchomp and Sub Salac Garchomp are no where near as dominant as Tank Chomp was a few months ago. I guess Garchomp is super splashable, but by that logic Heatran should move up before Garchomp should. Now that the ranks are spread out a bit more, Landorus-T is definitely better by a good enough margin to the point where they can be separated by one subrank

Celebi: Stays B-
I know Amoonguss and Tangrowth are better bulky grass types, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Celebi is C+. The role compression between Rocks, Thunder Wave, Baton Pass, status absorption, and Ground and Water resist is a pretty big asset to a good number of teams (even takes on non HP bug Keldeo a bit better than Tangrowth and Amoonguss which is a pretty neat bonus). I've always found it more reliable at its job than the likes of Zapdos or Mandibuzz.

Finally, my own nomination. Empoleon C+ ---> C

I don't like this as a defogger much. It doesn't match up well with most Stealth Rock setters. Being bait for Keldeo isn't a good thing either. Empoleon lacks reliable recovery (especially if you opt for resist berry over Leftovers) so its prone to getting worn down by Spikes, whereas the other two defoggers Zapdos and Mandibuzz have Roost and a Flying type to remedy this. I don't find it as reliable as those two to the point where I don't think that Stealth Rock + Defog is enough to keep it in the same rank as the other two defoggers. It's weaker to the metagame and too easy to wear down.

tl;dr
Garchomp Stays A
Celebi Stays B-
Empoleon C+ to C

 

[eden]

Mega Latias A- -> A

I support Mega Latias rising because it basically compresses checking most of the important wall breakers, like Keldeo,Mega Charizard Y,and Volcanion is one slot; while keeping an excellent speed tier, and being extremely useful outside of those niches, as well as being more durable than its base forme. The fact that it has Reflect Type to give it counter play against these opponents which are frequently paired with CB Tyranitar right now is extremely helpful and probably makes MLatias one of the best defensive megas in the tier right now. On the offensive side its no slouch either and gives us an offensive check to a variety of things, such as the now increasingly common SD Garchomp/Double Dance Landorus-Therian, and I've possibly neglected how adept it is at spreading Thunder Wave throughout a team when it decides to not use Reflect Type, although I still feel that Reflect Type is generally the superior choice.

Garchomp A -> A+

Garchomp should probably rise in spite of its Tank Chomp set being less common. Why? Because Garchomp is extremely splashable, offensive teams requiring a blanket check to a wide gamut of physical attacker almost always opts for Garchomp to be their rocks setter, because of the decent matchup it has with most of its leads. Furthermore its now increasingly popular sets such as, SD SR Lum/Sub Salac Chomp both show just how flexible Garchomp is, because if checking the things that tank Chomp checks isn't as necessary for you, you can opt to run sets that either have the potential to floor offense or that can severely pressure Mega Sableye Magic Bounce teams if played correctly. So just because it is so splashable, and so effective in most of the roles it chooses to do is reason enough to rise to be honest.

Slowking B-> B+

Slowking has been rising in popularity probably because of its ability to check a variety of things in one slot, and having a variety of EV spreads that allow it to be tweaked to whatever requirements are required by a particular build. Slowking can check/counter Keldeo/Mega Metagross/MLopunny/Volcanion/Tornadus-Therian/Nidoking and quite a few more viable threats in one slot, much like Slowbro but the reason to choose Slowking is probably its ability to handle Volcanion/Keldeo/Nidoking better while still having a decent matchup versus Mega Metagross(although Thunder Punch is becoming more common right now). To reflect its growing viability it should rise.

Volcarona B -> B+

Disagree with this a bit to be honest. Its not that Volcorona is bad, because it actually is a slept on threat that via items like Passho Berry can nab itself a free turn of setup and actually has a good matchup spread versus the standard balance team; but the thing that makes me say no is that a Volcorona build that is effective is hard to come along/build much like MZardY(but without the opportunity cost), it basically to me at least kind of necessitates Magic Bounce being run along side it and also requires you to run a spinner/Defogger and considering the offensive nature that a Volcorona team will probably take, you'll probably end up being weak to a variety of common threats. Also the fact that a bunch of common checks/counters are extremely common, kind of counts against it. Azumarril/Scarf Keldeo/Talonflame/Volcanion/Heatran/Tornadus-Therian are all solid checks/counters that are extremely viable and the fact that its counters and checks are common/viable coupled with the extreme support a Volcorona team requires makes me want to vote for it to stay in B.

 

[AM]

Dugtrio is the more obvious one to me thats reflective of where it's suggested to go. Lots of team support / the direction of a teams success can be attributed to mons such as TTar and Heatran. Its role as a trapper is pretty specific but once you delve into the Custap and Band variants (might try Earth Plate now that I think about it) you can get away with trapping a lot of annoyances like Volcanion / M-Diancie.

Don't really agree with a Mega Latias rise but I guess it's weird to see Lopunny and M-Cham above it and I think out of a technicality that's the only thing really in its favor, slightly though.