DP Research Thread #3 ("Newer")

[Jibaku]

Look at this video.

At 3:20, Spiritomb kills Slowbro with a Dark move. But at 8:20, the same move is shown to still have all of its pp!

It's in Japanese, but I'm pretty sure the attack is Pursuit. Maybe this is linked to the Japanese Pursuit glitch, but maybe not. I don't remeber if that glitch had anything to do with pp.

Anyone knows what's going on here?

Movename: Oiuchi

yes it is Pursuit. Slowbro tried to switch out and got hit by a CH Pursuit

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

A minor thing, but I tested it and Leppa Berry now activates immediately after the move runs out of PP (similar to how the other berries have quick activations in DP).

 

[Peterko]

ice ice baby

first DP freeze test ever

two level 100 chansey, serene grace ice beaming each other in an in-game double battle
L = left chansey
R = right chansey, faster

number of turns where the pokémon didn´t attack because of being frozen in 3 battles (zero means defrosted right away)

L1 - 1,4,3,6
L2 - 0,4,3,15,7,0,2,1,0,2,6,4
L3 - 1,6,4,4,1,2,3,11,0,1,1
L = 27 times frozen, 92 turns

R1 - 1,2,5,4,2,0,0,0,0,7,6,3
R2 - 4,5,0,0,0,2,2,1,6
R3 - 4,14,2,3,1,3,9
R = 28 times frozen, 86 turns

TOTAL: 55 times frozen, 178 turns
average number of turns to defrost: 3.2364
average defrost ratio: 30.89887%

according to my test, the defrost ratio seems to be 30%, which is quite interesting if you ask me

 

[X-Act]

ice ice baby

first DP freeze test ever

two level 100 chansey, serene grace ice beaming each other in an in-game double battle
L = left chansey
R = right chansey, faster

number of turns where the pokémon didn´t attack because of being frozen in 3 battles (zero means defrosted right away)

L1 - 1,4,3,6
L2 - 0,4,3,15,7,0,2,1,0,2,6,4
L3 - 1,6,4,4,1,2,3,11,0,1,1
L = 27 times frozen, 92 turns

R1 - 1,2,5,4,2,0,0,0,0,7,6,3
R2 - 4,5,0,0,0,2,2,1,6
R3 - 4,14,2,3,1,3,9
R = 28 times frozen, 86 turns

TOTAL: 55 times frozen, 178 turns
average number of turns to defrost: 3.2364
average defrost ratio: 30.89887%

according to my test, the defrost ratio seems to be 30%, which is quite interesting if you ask me

Very good test, as usual.

However, I think the average defrost percentage is not calculated correctly. Maybe I'm wrong though.

1,4,3,6 would translate as follows:

NYNNNNYNNNYNNNNNNY, where N is a turn where it stays frozen and Y is a turn where it defrosts. That means that defrost rate for those numbers only would be 4/18 = 22.2%, and not 4/14.

Similarly for the others. The defrost ratio, then, is not 55/178, but 55/(178+55) = 55/233 = 23.605%.

Or maybe I didn't understand this correctly, and I'm completely wrong.

 

[Peterko]

more like I didn´t know what I was doing when calc. the defrost ratio :D, what you posted seems logical...anyway, was hoping you would be the first to comment this research ;)

 

[X-Act]

This 23.605% seems similar to 60/256 = 23.4375%, or the probability that Quick Claw activated in GSC. (I don't remember the probability that Quick Claw activates in DP.)

 

[Peterko]

obligatory "someone will have to look at the game code and tell us the exact %" post lol, at least 23% or 20% is what everyone believed the ratio was

are there some other freeze questions besides the defrost ratio? I know I´ve tested ice beams in sun (you can´t get frozen in sun)...maybe whether using a fire move (flame wheel) while frozen or being hit by a fire move always defrosts you or something?

EDIT:
1. every fire attack that hits you thaws you out
2. you can´t get frozen in sunshine
3. making intense sunshine after you were frozen solid doesn´t thaw you out right away though (maybe increases the ratio but I don´t have patience for that kind of test)

 

[Death Phenomeno]

you can´t get frozen in sunshine

So that part of the urban legend got solved.

What about the other one? Is it true that you are unable to thaw in the rain?


Also someone should check this on PBR, since on the GameCube games this doesn't seem to apply. Genius Sonority…

 

[AJC]

was there ever any hard data on how download behaves against a pokemon with equal defenses?

 

[Forsety]

Anyone care to test if Hail might change freeze rate?

 

[Great Sage]

was there ever any hard data on how download behaves against a pokemon with equal defenses?

Omegadonut tested it by chaining Porygons in the Trophy Garden with a Registeel that had equal defenses; after at least 18 tests (I think it was either 18 or 30-something, either way, it's a lot), every Download Porygon he encountered had Special Attack raised. The line of thought is that if the defender's Defenses are equal, then Download raises whichever stat is higher, and since Porygon naturally has higher Special Attack than Attack, it raised Special Attack.

 

[X-Act]

I made a little formula on the probability that you defrost within n turns:

Probability = 1 - (1-r)^(n+1), where r is the defrost rate.

Putting r = 20% (since this seems to be the consensus on the defrost rate), we get:

Defrosting within 0 turns: 20%.
Defrosting within 1 turn: 36%.
Defrosting within 2 turns: 48.8%.
Defrosting within 3 turns: 59.0%.
Defrosting within 4 turns: 67.2%.
Defrosting within 5 turns: 73.8%.
Defrosting within 6 turns: 79.0%.
Defrosting within 7 turns: 83.2%.
Defrosting within 8 turns: 86.6%.
Defrosting within 9 turns: 89.3%.
Defrosting within 10 turns: 91.4%.

This also means that you should expect to be defrosted within 2 turns in around half the times you get frozen. This is, of course, if the defrost rate is indeed 20%.

EDIT: This actually corresponds with Peterko's data almost exactly. Peterko has 28 numbers which are 2 or less, and 27 numbers which are 3 ore more. So they are roughly half and half, giving more credibility for the defrost rate to be 20%.

 

[Missingno. Master]

Omegadonut tested it by chaining Porygons in the Trophy Garden with a Registeel that had equal defenses; after at least 18 tests (I think it was either 18 or 30-something, either way, it's a lot), every Download Porygon he encountered had Special Attack raised. The line of thought is that if the defender's Defenses are equal, then Download raises whichever stat is higher, and since Porygon naturally has higher Special Attack than Attack, it raised Special Attack.

If that's the case, what if the Download Pokemon had equal Attack and Sp. Atk, as well as the opponent having equal defenses? Extremely unlikely, yes, but what would happen? In fact, I'll find a way to test this somehow.

 

[obi]

L1 - 1,4,3,6
L2 - 0,4,3,15,7,0,2,1,0,2,6,4
L3 - 1,6,4,4,1,2,3,11,0,1,1
L = 27 times frozen, 92 turns

R1 - 1,2,5,4,2,0,0,0,0,7,6,3
R2 - 4,5,0,0,0,2,2,1,6
R3 - 4,14,2,3,1,3,9
R = 28 times frozen, 86 turns

To sort these data...

Actual number of turns Frozen:
0 or less: 20%
1 or less: 36.4%
2 or less: 50.9%
3 or less: 61.8%
4 or less: 76.4%
5 or less: 80%
6 or less: 89.1%
7 or less: 92.7%
8 or less: 92.7%
9 or less: 94.5%
10 or less: 94.5%

Comparing this with a defrost rate of 20%, as X-Act calculated, we get...

0 or less: 20%.
1 or less: 36%.
2 or less: 48.8%.
3 or less: 59.0%.
4 or less: 67.2%.
5 or less: 73.8%.
6 or less: 79.0%.
7 or less: 83.2%.
8 or less: 86.6%.
9 or less: 89.3%.
10 or less: 91.4%.



A 25% defrost rate gives:

0 or less: 25.0%
1 or less: 43.8%
2 or less: 57.8%
3 or less: 68.4%
4 or less: 76.3%
5 or less: 82.2%
6 or less: 86.7%
7 or less: 90.0%
8 or less: 92.5%
9 or less: 94.4%
10 or less: 95.8%

(Sorry for the poor quality, I don't have Photoshop right now)

 

[Forsety]

Important thing I noticed but have the Destiny Bond mechanics changed?

I recall in previous games the Destiny Bond user when on their last Pokemon would automatically lose the game. However the other day when playing Wifi Battle Tower a Froslass that Destiny Bonded my last Pokemon was considered the winner when I KO'd it.

Seems awful cheap if this is the case or is it just a Battle Tower quirk?

 

[Jibaku]

Did anyone here notice Spikes/Toxic Spikes/Stealth Rock get affected by Pressure?

I had my Forretress use Toxic Spikes against a Lugia, and I realized it lost 2 PP in one instead of the normal one in one

 

[TheMantyke]

Did anyone here notice Spikes/Toxic Spikes/Stealth Rock get affected by Pressure?

I had my Forretress use Toxic Spikes against a Lugia, and I realized it lost 2 PP in one instead of the normal one in one

..Doesn't it always work like that though?

 

[Darkflagrance]

Important thing I noticed but have the Destiny Bond mechanics changed?

I recall in previous games the Destiny Bond user when on their last Pokemon would automatically lose the game. However the other day when playing Wifi Battle Tower a Froslass that Destiny Bonded my last Pokemon was considered the winner when I KO'd it.

Seems awful cheap if this is the case or is it just a Battle Tower quirk?

It is meant to be this cheap. The clause says that the player, not necessarily the user of the Self-KO move, loses if both pokemon faint due to it.

 

[obi]

Did anyone here notice Spikes/Toxic Spikes/Stealth Rock get affected by Pressure?

I had my Forretress use Toxic Spikes against a Lugia, and I realized it lost 2 PP in one instead of the normal one in one

In fact, in 2v2, if you use a field effect and your partner has Pressure, you lose an extra PP. I'm not sure if this is also true for "targets the opponent's side of the field" like Spikes, but I know it is like that for Gravity.

 

[TheMantyke]

Not sure if this is already known, but if you are behind a sub and you status a synchronizer, you are also afflicted with the status condision.

 

[cornflake]

Using a fire attack when you're frozen thaws you out, right? Like a frozen Infernape using Flare Blitz will auto-thaw.

Does Will-O-Wisp do this?

 

[Great Sage]

No. Only using Flame Wheel and Sacred Fire have that self-thaw effect. If you are hit by any Fire attack from the opponent, though, you do automatically defrost.

 

[Death Phenomeno]

According to this video, Lum Berry now goes before Synchronize takes effect, rendering that old technique from Advanced useless.

Remember that this is from a Japanese source, so this could possibly be a fixed glitch.

 

[Bourbon]

Not true. I have a Gardevoir with the Lum + Synch combo, and it works. I ahve taken Twaves with it, and Will O Wisps and it works every time.

 

[Magic Umbreon]

If that's the case, what if the Download Pokemon had equal Attack and Sp. Atk, as well as the opponent having equal defenses? Extremely unlikely, yes, but what would happen? In fact, I'll find a way to test this somehow.

Why does it matter? That situation would just never come up.