DP Research Thread #3 ("Newer")

Question but does anyone know the exact flinch rate Razor Claw/King's Rock boost flinch by? Also whether they boost by a percentage or whether they boost flinch in levels (similar to crit levels).

I suppose thats also basically asking which is the better flinch item.
 

Boa1891

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What is Techinician's interaction with struggle does it boost it also how does it work with Beat Up?
It works normally with beat up. No clue for Struggle.
Question but does anyone know the exact flinch rate Razor Claw/King's Rock boost flinch by? Also whether they boost by a percentage or whether they boost flinch in levels (similar to crit levels).

I suppose thats also basically asking which is the better flinch item.
King's Rock:
"Moves without a secondary effect have a 10% chance to flinch the target."
Razor Claw has not been extensively tested as far as I know, but I assume it works similarly or identically. Perhaps someone needs to do research.
That is to say, King's Rock does not work with attacks like thunderbolt, ice beam, double-edge, psychic, or moves that already have a flinch rate. It can't hurt to use a Razor Claw instead of King's Rock, I suppose.

Edit, forgot to mention: It DOES work with Beat Up, if that's relevant. In fact, in the WiFi battles I used to have with Footnote, his King's rock Beat Up ambipom seemed to flinch me over half the time, indicating that each individual hit in Beat Up has an individual check for flinch (which would put a 6-hit beat up w/ King's Rock at about 53% flinch rate).
 
I know i sound dumb but how do you do the math for adaptive stab attacks BPs like for instance max power stab adaptive flail because i see 2 potental results 400 or 500 but i don't know what is right though :X
 

david stone

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The exact change is that the STAB modifier becomes 2 instead of 1.5.

If you have Safeguard up, are your Pokes affected by Toxic Spikes when you swithc in? I'm assuming it works similar to Reflect and you can pseudo-pass it but I'm not positive since I've never tried it before.
Also I'm not sure if the "no secondary effects" thing was ever tested for King's Rock, and in fact, I have heard that it works on pretty much every move.
 

Boa1891

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Interesting question on Safeguard, my guess is that they are protected from TS.

Huh, well, that's interesting. If it was never tested, why's it in the item analyses? >_>
 
A question raised in the AASQ thread was if Roosting Poison Pokemon or Gravity-affected Levitating/Flying Poison Pokemon removed Toxic Spikes.
 

david stone

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No for Roosting, yes for Gravity affected (so long as Gravity is in play when they switch in). Also yes if they are Baton Passed Ingrain or (presumably) are holding an Iron Ball.
 

Boa1891

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A question raised in the AASQ thread was if Roosting Poison Pokemon or Gravity-affected Levitating/Flying Poison Pokemon removed Toxic Spikes.
The check is done upon switching in, so Roost is a no for sure. Gravity, on the other hand, might (will most likely*) work (as well as iron orb).
 

david stone

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Another question is whether, if Safeguard does prevent you from being Poisoned, having Safeguard down and switching to a grounded Poison still absorbs Toxic Spikes (same for BPing a Substitute to a Poison Pokemon).
 

X-Act

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About Razor Claw, I believe Peterko tested both King's Rock and Razor Claw and both seem to have a 10% flinch rate.

Also, there is evidence that suggests that King's Rock also increases the flinch rate for moves that have a flinching chance. The game would first check the flinching chance for the move in particular, and then, if it doesn't flinch, it checks the flinching chance for King's Rock. This would make the move have (10 + 0.9F)% chance of flinching, where F is the percentage flinching chance of the move.

Examples:
Zen Headbutt + King's Rock has (10 + 0.9(20))% = 28% chance of flinching.
Air Slash + King's Rock has (10 + 0.9(30))% = 37% chance of flinching.
Serene Grace Air Slash + King's Rock has (10 + 0.9(60))% = 64% chance of flinching.

As Boa1891 says, Beat Up + King's Rock has a 10% chance to flinch for every hit. If the whole team is still alive, then Beat Up would have a 46.86% chance of flinching.
 
Hey guys I searched the front page but no answer: If I have a substitute up and use counter after an attack, does it do double damage back based on how much the attack would have dealt, or is it based directly on how much max HP your substitute has? Has this been tested y/n, and if not I believe I can test it for everyone.
 
hi

When my Amibpom whacked himself in confusion today on Shoddy I was wondering: does Technician boost the base power of the self-hitting attack of confusion? I'm inclined to say no but since it is technically a 50 Base Power attack (iirc)...
 

david stone

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It would be based on how much HP the sub had, if it would even work.
Yes, but it doesn't work at all. You can only Counters attacks that hit you, not those that hit your Substitute.

For purposes of draws, when does it stop checking for Pokemon fainting? According to Colin, for regular attacks, it calculates at the end of an attack (so KOing your opponent with Double-Edge or even Life Orb <attack> and dying to recoil would lead to a draw, because that's all in one attack), but end-of-turn effects are a bit more mysterious.

End-of-turn effects

If one Pokemon would die to Perish Song, and another to Sandstorm, is it a draw, or does the one who dies to Sandstorm lose, because it comes first? If two Pokemon would faint to Sandstorm, does the faster one lose, because it's hit first, or is it a draw?
 
Does BPing a Substitute into toxic spikes prevent the recipient from being poisoned? Cause Substitute technically blocks status effects.

But in Shoddy my Swampert who received a Substitute Baton Pass still got poisoned from TS.
 

Cathy

Banned deucer.
Baton Passing a Substitute should prevent poisoning from Toxic Spikes. It doesn't currently on Shoddy Battle but this is a known bug.
 

david stone

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Does Focus Sash stop you from OHKOing yourself in your confusion, or OHKOing yourself from recoil damage?

What happens if you U-Turn while under the effects of Ingrain?
 

Boa1891

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Does Focus Sash stop you from OHKOing yourself in your confusion, or OHKOing yourself from recoil damage?

What happens if you U-Turn while under the effects of Ingrain?
No, no, and (IIGC) it does work and allow you to switch, but does not pass the ingrain (common sense? yes. I need to state it anyway? OCD FTW.).

100% sure for the first two, a little uncertain about the other.
I tested, with sash: Recoil (rampardos OHKOing Blissey OHKOed self from full health and Sash did not activate), Sandstorm (shedinja died), Hail (shedinja died), spikes (shedinja died), SR (sheddy died), Burn (died). I am no less than 100% certain that confusion will ignore sash if you would OHKO yourself from full health, and so would toxic/poison.

As for the other, I know that BP and Shed Shell will both work for Ingrain, and there is no reason U-turn would not. Someone SHOULD test it, just to be 100% certain, but I am very confident U-turn will work.
 
I am no less than 100% certain that confusion will ignore sash if you would OHKO yourself from full health.
I know from experience that the Focus BAND can prevent confusion self-kills. In Colosseum, I confused a Wobbuffet once, and it saved itself from itself (awkward wording there) with the band. I know we're talking about the sash here, just throwing this in.
 
Rivalry boosts attack depending on the gender of the opposing pokemon, but does it depend on when the pokemon that has rivalry switches in would does an attack decrease still occur if a pokmeon of the opposite gender is switched in?
 

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