Couldn't it be more specific? Like Protean on Greninja?
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Resource ORAS OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter Celticpride
- Start date
Couldn't it be more specific? Like Protean on Greninja?
Because that's not how Smogon works. If we gave Greninja a pass and only did a complex ban for it, that opens up the flood gates for everything in Ubers being allowed into OU, or just things in higher tiers allowed all the way down in PU, just with certain bits banned off. "Oh, why not just allow Mewtwo in, but without Psystrike", or "let's complex ban Mega Rayquaza with boosting moves so he can come on down!" is only a small bit of the mess that would erupt, since there's no sound reason NOT to once we do a Complex Ban like that. (I know PU did one with Chatot and Chatter, but that was more of a happy accident that won't be repeated.
This really should just be on the Simple Questions and Answers but given the limited distribution of the ability itself, Greninja (its family line) and Kecleon, you only have two extremes to compare that there just isn't proof that Protean necessitates a blanket ban on Pokemon. Asking for a more specific / unique ban would just be too biased, more so when the ability / move combination is practically synonymous to one user, and that is what would make it a fairly big deal.
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The fact that Kecleon and Greninja's pre-evos do not make anywhere near of an impact with this ability, even in their respective tiers, indicates that Greninja itself is the bigger perpetrator of what makes Protean seem problematic. Just like how a mon itself makes an ability seem more broken, the same could be applied with Pokemon that makes moves more broken (such as Belly Drum Slurpuff for RU, or Eruption Typhlosion for NU, or Shell Smash Barbaracle / Carracosta for PU, etc.). Should those particular moves be banned as a whole as well?
The only times abilities are banned as a whole are when the ability seems just as effective regardless of the Pokemon that has it (aka the ability itself being defining, rather than the mons that use it). Shadow Tag, Moody, and UU and below Drizzle + Drought fit this criteria, so they got banned.
Finally, the problem with specific bans is that they could be applied to nearly anything. I mean why stop at Greninja? People could very easily suggest something like Blaze Blaziken and Sand Force Landorus for OU. Oh you think that's fine? How about this be applied to lower tiers as well? Like non-Magic Guard Alakazam, non-Unburden Hawlucha, non-Huge Power Diggersby, non-Speed Boost Scolipede, non-Reckless Staraptor, non-Serene Grace Togekiss, etc. for UU? Or non-Adaptability Dragalge, non-Hustle Durant, non-Moxie Honchkrow, non-Rock Head Tyrantrum, non-Speed Boost Sharpedo, non-Tinted Lens Venomoth, Frisk-only Yanmega, etc. for RU? I haven't even covered all possible combinations yet but you can see for yourself just how endless these possibilities are, and it'd be a mess to take note of each ban specific to the Pokemon itself (especially for newer players), rather than a general blanket ban that can be easily kept track of.
Slowking @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 84 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Thunder Wave
- Psyshock
- Slack Off
Honestly, defensive Slowking is just as good as slowbro in this meta. While slowbro is used to take much harder physical hits like drill eqs and talon brave birds, king does the exact same job with insane special attacks. It walls volcanion, keldeo, torn-t(it avoids the 2hko from LO knock), and some other notable wallbreakers seen in ou. It's a much better mixed wall than bro too, using that awesome typing to tank HJKs and Meteor Mashes, while having great spdef and twave. It avoids the 2hko from attacks like lopunny return and can respond with a twave. It can also check non tpunch medicham like bro can, which is just great for balanced teams in general.
Slowking @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Psychic
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Tail
And don't sleep on the av set either. While the other set uses its mixed bulk to twave things and scald burn them for your team, this one is a fantastic pivot with access to dragon tail, which is huge for those builds that get destroyed by manaphy. It eats at plus 3, phases it out, then switches a few times to recover up. Slowking is honestly incredible in this meta, because it can check threats to a lot of balanced teams like manaphy, LO torn, lopunny, and even act as a last ditch check to medicham (When invested in defense).
RecEdit: Please don't link giant wallpapers, thanks
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Slowking @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 84 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Thunder Wave
- Psyshock
- Slack Off
Honestly, defensive Slowking is just as good as slowbro in this meta. While slowbro is used to take much harder physical hits like drill eqs and talon brave birds, king does the exact same job with insane special attacks. It walls volcanion, keldeo, torn-t(it avoids the 2hko from LO knock), and some other notable wallbreakers seen in ou. It's a much better mixed wall than bro too, using that awesome typing to tank HJKs and Meteor Mashes, while having great spdef and twave. It avoids the 2hko from attacks like lopunny return and can respond with a twave. It can also check non tpunch medicham like bro can, which is just great for balanced teams in general.
Slowking @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Psychic
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Tail
And don't sleep on the av set either. While the other set uses its mixed bulk to twave things and scald burn them for your team, this one is a fantastic pivot with access to dragon tail, which is huge for those builds that get destroyed by manaphy. It eats at plus 3, phases it out, then switches a few times to recover up. Slowking is honestly incredible in this meta, because it can check threats to a lot of balanced teams like manaphy, LO torn, lopunny, and even act as a last ditch check to medicham (When invested in defense).
RecEdit: Please don't link giant wallpapers, thanks
Slowking @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 84 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Thunder Wave
- Psyshock
- Slack Off
Honestly, defensive Slowking is just as good as slowbro in this meta. While slowbro is used to take much harder physical hits like drill eqs and talon brave birds, king does the exact same job with insane special attacks. It walls volcanion, keldeo, torn-t(it avoids the 2hko from LO knock), and some other notable wallbreakers seen in ou. It's a much better mixed wall than bro too, using that awesome typing to tank HJKs and Meteor Mashes, while having great spdef and twave. It avoids the 2hko from attacks like lopunny return and can respond with a twave. It can also check non tpunch medicham like bro can, which is just great for balanced teams in general.
Slowking @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Psychic
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Tail
And don't sleep on the av set either. While the other set uses its mixed bulk to twave things and scald burn them for your team, this one is a fantastic pivot with access to dragon tail, which is huge for those builds that get destroyed by manaphy. It eats at plus 3, phases it out, then switches a few times to recover up. Slowking is honestly incredible in this meta, because it can check threats to a lot of balanced teams like manaphy, LO torn, lopunny, and even act as a last ditch check to medicham (When invested in defense).
RecEdit: Please don't link giant wallpapers, thanks
You see, right now the meta is very physically oriented and both Slowking and Slowbro's typing is a very good physically defensive typing since it resists Fighting Stab, Steel Stab, FIRE stab and other such physically typed attacks. Since Slowbro has a higher defensive stat than Slowking, its more viable as its more used to take Physical hits, not special. Even Slowbro can take draco meteors from full, paralyse a lati and then just slack off the damage. Its just that the water/psychic typing isnt good enough to take special hits in OU.
However i do see SOME viability in Slowking
In my opinion Slowking is only really an option on bulky balance/semi-stall where there will be other defensive checks to all the things that Slowbro handles better than Slowking. Otherwise the reasons to use him don't really hold up for me. He can check things like Lopunny and Excadrill, but Slowbro does that better. He can hit harder, but only at the cost of bulk, and as a wall he will likely appreciate Scald burns and whittling opponents more often then being able to outright KO some stuff. He doesn't really check Medicham because with Adamant nature HJK will likely 2HKO with rocks, and Adamant is the norm these days. Thunder Punch is also getting common which destroys Slowking. (Slowbro has these problems too but to a lesser extent at least.) Slowking checks Keldeo better, but likes eating a burn about as much as Slowbro - that is, not at all.
That said, Slowking can be a nice addition to Regenerator cores with Torn-T and Rocky Helmet Tang which help handle physical threats. He also just provides a little surprise value if you run an offensive spread.
I don't mean to say Slowking is NOT viable - he is - but Slowbro is almost always the better choice.
That said, Slowking can be a nice addition to Regenerator cores with Torn-T and Rocky Helmet Tang which help handle physical threats. He also just provides a little surprise value if you run an offensive spread.
I don't mean to say Slowking is NOT viable - he is - but Slowbro is almost always the better choice.
Slowking does well at checking certain things with more consistency than Slowbro does, which is why I think it's p. easy to justify on a lot of teams. The drop in physical bulk is noticable, but on the flipside the increase in immediate special bulk is incredibly noticable when using it as a blanket check to stuff. For example, while Slowbro isn't really a very good as a sole answer to Keldeo outside of that old SpD spread (252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Mega Slowbro: 170-201 (43.1 - 51%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock; HP Electric/Grass/Bug doesn't do much more to it) Slowking is a v. consistent stop in general between Regen, it's special bulk/typing and Slack Off/CM (252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 68+ SpD Slowking: 114-135 (28.9 - 34.2%) -- 4.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery; 252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Slowking: 94-111 (23.8 - 28.1%) -- 30.5% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery). There are others which I won't go into now but basically you use them p. interchangably depending on what you need to check.
Also I think that if you aren't running CM it isn't usually worth using either Slowbro or Slowking nowadays tbh, although stuff like T-Wave I can kinda see being justified despite CM being better the vast majority of the time. AV Slowbro/king is kinda crap nowadays whereas defensive, non-CM Slowking is iffy at best (with non-CM Slowbro not being much better than non-CM Slowking, although it's occasionally justifyable).
Also I think that if you aren't running CM it isn't usually worth using either Slowbro or Slowking nowadays tbh, although stuff like T-Wave I can kinda see being justified despite CM being better the vast majority of the time. AV Slowbro/king is kinda crap nowadays whereas defensive, non-CM Slowking is iffy at best (with non-CM Slowbro not being much better than non-CM Slowking, although it's occasionally justifyable).
i mean obviously slowbro is better but honestly a lot of you people are understating slowkings viability. unlike slowbro it checks diancie, latis, torn t, zam, etc (yes the extra spdef does matter) while also being much more solid vs stuff like keldeo and volcanion. A lot of you are being really unnecessarily dismissive of it with opinions based on what sounds like pure theorymon. It has a lot more to offer than a "fancy look and nastyplot/trick room set".
Slowbro can't physically get close to the SpD benchmark which you run on CM Slowking, so no: TR is not the only reason to use it.
For the reference, CM Slowking hits 300 SpD (248 HP / 188 Def / 68 SpD; takes 2 Hurricanes from analysis LO Torn before a boost and hits a Regen number) whereas max SpD Slowbro only hits 284. You can run more SpD if you want but you're probably better off with this spread most of the time.
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Mamoswine @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Stealth Rock / Knock Off
-Icicle Crash
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
Some people in the OU room were saying that Stealth Rock was the only reason why you should use Mamoswine over Weavile. However, this Choice Scarf set has been working really well for me because of two key factors:
- It's able to threaten out most common leads, including Hippowdon, Landorus-T, Garchomp, and non-Air Balloon Heatran, enabling it to set up Stealth Rock relatively easily despite being hindered by its Choice Scarf.
- It makes for a great revenge killer - although it misses out on some of Weavile's finer points such as hitting Rotom-W hard with Knock Off, Pursuit trapping, and boosting with Swords Dance, it can outspeed anything below Mega Sceptile and Mega Beedrill by sitting at an effective 426 Speed. This lets it outspeed many faster offensive Pokémon such as Mega Lopunny, Mega Manectric, +1 Mega Gyarados, and Choice Scarf Diggersby. Additionally, it can cover threats like Mega Charizard Y, Mega Charizard X, and Raikou with its moveset, unlike Weavile.
Replays (wish I had more):
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-409055485 Mamoswine threatens out a Mega Diancie, sets up Stealth Rock, and would have KO'd the opponent's Volcarona had I not haxed it to death first.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-409057238 Half of my opponent's team (Mega Manectric, Garchomp, and Landorus-T) were pressured by Mamoswine, making it easy to keep Stealth Rock up and apply pressure. I made a bad play on turn 1, but got lucky.
What do you think? Is Mamoswine better than you expected? Do its flaws hold it back too much? I'd like your feedback.
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If you want to use Mamoswine run LO+4 attacks. Stealth Rock Mamo is awful and don't use the OU room's discussions as your primary point of reference for anything as there is a lot of very questionable things which get said in that room in general. Scarf Mamoswine offers virtually nothing over either LO+Ice Shard Mamo or Scarf Lando-T, and that replay basically confirmed this fact in addition to there being a number of questionable plays in the first replay, such as not using Bug Buzz>Fiery Dance vs. Celebi (either that or not having Bug Buzz, would be even worse), switching Starmie directly into Mamoswine from a Diancie despite switching out explicitly because it can't OHKO Mamoswine (LO would have probably OHKOed Starmie even with jolly, and even if you got a low roll it would have been in range of Ice Shard) and a few others too while losing the ability to gain momentum with U-turn which Lando-T has.
To steer the direction of this thread into something more relevant OLT3 has started and you can sign up here.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/smogons-official-ladder-tournament-iii-cycle-1-signups.3578339/
The OU meta normally develops through larger tournaments such as this and for any one trying to "make a name" for yourself, this is a pretty good way to do. A lot of reputable players in both the tournament and high ladder scene will be participating for the black trophy here
. The last two winners were Alexander and Lyconik with ABR and Chimpact as the finalists respectively. OLT2 fostered what set in place the suspect tests of Shadow Tag due to stalls impact on its tournament scene and was an important point in the creation and currently archived ABR Lopunny Sand Team found in the RMT forum and used successfully by OLT2 semi-finalist Tsunami. We'll also be seeing the first stages of the Sun and Moon meta here as well more than likely in the later stages. A couple of notable players participating include ABR, Luigi, PDC, Finchinator, Omfuga, and Teal6, the list continues to grow and includes various other tournament and ladder players. I think this would be a good place to discuss some of the trends and players you're seeing as it should be a good learning experience for some who either have not really delved into the tournament scene or trying to improve their meta knowledge.
For everyones personal enjoyment and to truly understand the joy of laddering on OU, here's some documentary from the great PDC himself on the matter.
So feel free to post any notable replays or trends you see in the coming weeks.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/smogons-official-ladder-tournament-iii-cycle-1-signups.3578339/
The OU meta normally develops through larger tournaments such as this and for any one trying to "make a name" for yourself, this is a pretty good way to do. A lot of reputable players in both the tournament and high ladder scene will be participating for the black trophy here
For everyones personal enjoyment and to truly understand the joy of laddering on OU, here's some documentary from the great PDC himself on the matter.
[02:05] <PDC_> i hope
[02:05] <PDC_> these kids
[02:05] <PDC_> die
[02:05] <PDC_> what the FUCK
[02:05] <PDC_> how
[02:05] <PDC_> can people be this lucky
[02:05] <PDC_> these kids
[02:05] <PDC_> die
[02:05] <PDC_> what the FUCK
[02:05] <PDC_> how
[02:05] <PDC_> can people be this lucky
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OLT's been a lot of fun the past few years. You get to play and beat some of the community's reputable players, then watch them john with 'it's just ladder idcare.'
Gonna roll some heads again this year. Even if I don't get anywhere, I'm fine with being an entry barrier for less experienced players.
Gonna roll some heads again this year. Even if I don't get anywhere, I'm fine with being an entry barrier for less experienced players.
Hey so like, Lucario is much better than I thought it was.
Extremespeed is really good against offensive teams, and Lucario just dismantles these teams late-game. All you really need for it to work is a layer or two of hazards and then mons that either force switches easily (think volt/turn), or powerful physical breakers (think SD Lando). You can even pick what you beat/what you need to be broken for you. If you want him to handle Lando, go Ice Punch + PuP M-Lop. If you want him to beat Slowbro go Crunch + Mega Medicham. He can work as either a sweeper or a breaker depending on the opponent's team, and he's actually so much more effective than I thought with Ttar Weavile and Ferrothorn everywhere.
Not without flaws though. he's frail as anything, meaning you have to switch in after a Pokemon faints or with a slow U-turn. He also pretty much requires a more offensive build since he doesn't fair too well on balanced teams. But he's still so fun and unprepared for. He kind of reminds me of Diggersby/Crawdaunt in that sense.
I'll be posting a team with him for the team building shop in the near future.
Extremespeed is really good against offensive teams, and Lucario just dismantles these teams late-game. All you really need for it to work is a layer or two of hazards and then mons that either force switches easily (think volt/turn), or powerful physical breakers (think SD Lando). You can even pick what you beat/what you need to be broken for you. If you want him to handle Lando, go Ice Punch + PuP M-Lop. If you want him to beat Slowbro go Crunch + Mega Medicham. He can work as either a sweeper or a breaker depending on the opponent's team, and he's actually so much more effective than I thought with Ttar Weavile and Ferrothorn everywhere.
Not without flaws though. he's frail as anything, meaning you have to switch in after a Pokemon faints or with a slow U-turn. He also pretty much requires a more offensive build since he doesn't fair too well on balanced teams. But he's still so fun and unprepared for. He kind of reminds me of Diggersby/Crawdaunt in that sense.
I'll be posting a team with him for the team building shop in the near future.
Lots of xtra bird-spam offense, sableye stalls, offenses, and bulky offenses on the ladder this beginning cycle. LOTS of Scarf Exca weak teams (Rotom-W is not a ground immunity guys). I didn't have time to really gather noticeable replays I watched but that sort of sums up the high ladder phase of OLT at this point in time. Definitely a more engaging ladder than it was currently so it's pretty nice to see some decent matches.
cycle 1 trends:
-xtra bird spam is extremely unprepared for. too much pressure for stall and priority for offense
-scarf excadrill is also extremely unprepared for. landorus-t is one of the easiest 'mons to wear down with physical attackers because they are all helmet or scarf. levitate 'mons aren't ground immune
-rd tg manaphy with splash plate is a horse since the amount of unaware clefable stall / semistall is absurd
-full stall is looking inferior to semi stall. look at tele's suicune/sableye/dugtrio/skarmory/zapdos/clefable team. dj trump obviously isn't the olt type of dude i am assuming, but he changed up full stall a bit by adding tangrowth and talonflame
-sableye, heracross, lopunny - your best mega choices for obvious reasons
-mega sceptile and dragonite are underrated
-xtra bird spam is extremely unprepared for. too much pressure for stall and priority for offense
-scarf excadrill is also extremely unprepared for. landorus-t is one of the easiest 'mons to wear down with physical attackers because they are all helmet or scarf. levitate 'mons aren't ground immune
-rd tg manaphy with splash plate is a horse since the amount of unaware clefable stall / semistall is absurd
-full stall is looking inferior to semi stall. look at tele's suicune/sableye/dugtrio/skarmory/zapdos/clefable team. dj trump obviously isn't the olt type of dude i am assuming, but he changed up full stall a bit by adding tangrowth and talonflame
-sableye, heracross, lopunny - your best mega choices for obvious reasons
-mega sceptile and dragonite are underrated
Alakazam-Mega @ Alakazite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Focus Blast
- Protect
Bisharp @ Black Glasses
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 8 SpD / 248 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance
Gyarados @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 72 HP / 188 Atk / 248 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Bounce
- Rest
- Dragon Dance
Heatran @ Power Herb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Solar Beam
- Ancient Power
- Stealth Rock
Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Dragon Claw
Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Hone Claws
- Fusion Bolt
- Blizzard
- Focus Blast
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Focus Blast
- Protect
Bisharp @ Black Glasses
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 8 SpD / 248 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance
Gyarados @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 72 HP / 188 Atk / 248 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Bounce
- Rest
- Dragon Dance
Heatran @ Power Herb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Solar Beam
- Ancient Power
- Stealth Rock
Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Dragon Claw
Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Hone Claws
- Fusion Bolt
- Blizzard
- Focus Blast
-They always lead Azelf and they are forced to taunt heatran, while heatran cleanly OHKO Azlef trough sash with magmastorm. No rocks my friend!
-Scarf Chomp outspeeds common swamperts spread, scarf excadrill and overall deals quite nicely to many tyeams due to it's bulk.
-protect Alakazam insures that you trace sand rush/shift swimm in right time and protect from fakeout bullshit and scouts which move they went with their scarfer.
-McMegha's Gyrados is kinda hard for offense to deal but pay attention that it can survive brave bird only from full HP
-Bisharp as extra priority to ensure some late game sweep because both talonflame and dragonite don't deal that well with it.
Overall after you get rid of their rocks due to kill on Azlef it shouldn't be so hard to win this match because you put so much pressure on them in just one turn.
Stall matchup is a little bitt tricky but if you are patient and bring hone claw kyurem in just right time you should be fine (unfortunately this team is not as ridiculously prepared for stall like my previous team with mega heracross, stallbreaker alakazam and crawdaunt where I hoped for forfeits in team preview). Stall build don't have any mon that can deal with mixed wallbreaker this powerfull so keep that in mind. Quagsier, Chansey, Sarmory and Sableye aren't greatest anserws, all they get 2HKO at +1. Remember that your heatran is trapper so you can set up rocks more easily because they can't switch.
Overall very fun team, I'm sharing it because I probably won't play pokemon this week or even this month. This game kinda stopped being fun for me and I have lots, lots of work.
EDIT: I was thinking about hp flying Mega Zam to revenge kill talonflame ;) this is kind gimkicky but 4th moveslot on mega zam is so expendabpe someone might give it try!
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So I'm at 2000+ right now and I can't say high ladder is a very enjoyable place. Similarly to last year, everybody's trying to take shortcuts into playoffs by using spamming aforementioned spammable teams which is fine, I guess (you do you, man), but I just find it find incredibly lame. For a supposed metagame developing tournament, I'm not really that impressed. Despite all this, some players are shining through - wally, sam norton, and liones have all been pretty brilliant this cycle imo. and me too ofc
I think am and ballislife covered most metagame trends going on right now, but here are two I've seen that haven't been mentioned yet:
1) The obvious one: the stupid quick rise of SR Clefable. This has been going on for awhile now obviously, even before the tournament began, but now it's almost at a ridiculous point. Almost every high ladder team will have one because of how convenient and splashable it is. I'd wager it's more common than CM at this point.
On the flipside, it's also pretty cool how stall is trying to compensate for this in their play- some Sableyes are running Protect, and others are Recover spamming and getting you to SR yourself and then playing the hazards game.
2) A smaller albeit noticeable rise of Zapdos - it 1v1s almost the entirety of xtra's team by itself and can reliably spread paralysis and Defog on everything except for Heatran (honestly though it can still trade if comes down to it). You'll find it on the teams of tele, pdc, and myself for instance off the top of my head, and there are a couple more.
Here are some newer sets I've seen - some are gimmicky and some are actually really cool. I guess you guys can decide for yourself:
ABR's(?) Rest Mega Heracross as a stallbreaker (shakes off burns and stall is passive enough so it can sit 2 turns and wake)
Nevis's Waterfall/EQ Curse Gastrodon
Ban Manaphy's Endeavor Mega Diancie
Hugo's Substitute/Ice Beam/Iron Head/Fusion Bolt Leftovers Kyurem-B (wtf?)
zomog's Block Mega Slowbro
tele's Screech Dugtrio to trap Chanseys/Clefables.
tele's Toxic/Scald/CM/Rest Suicune.
tele's entire fucking team.
I think am and ballislife covered most metagame trends going on right now, but here are two I've seen that haven't been mentioned yet:
1) The obvious one: the stupid quick rise of SR Clefable. This has been going on for awhile now obviously, even before the tournament began, but now it's almost at a ridiculous point. Almost every high ladder team will have one because of how convenient and splashable it is. I'd wager it's more common than CM at this point.
On the flipside, it's also pretty cool how stall is trying to compensate for this in their play- some Sableyes are running Protect, and others are Recover spamming and getting you to SR yourself and then playing the hazards game.
2) A smaller albeit noticeable rise of Zapdos - it 1v1s almost the entirety of xtra's team by itself and can reliably spread paralysis and Defog on everything except for Heatran (honestly though it can still trade if comes down to it). You'll find it on the teams of tele, pdc, and myself for instance off the top of my head, and there are a couple more.
Here are some newer sets I've seen - some are gimmicky and some are actually really cool. I guess you guys can decide for yourself:
ABR's(?) Rest Mega Heracross as a stallbreaker (shakes off burns and stall is passive enough so it can sit 2 turns and wake)
Nevis's Waterfall/EQ Curse Gastrodon
Ban Manaphy's Endeavor Mega Diancie
Hugo's Substitute/Ice Beam/Iron Head/Fusion Bolt Leftovers Kyurem-B (wtf?)
zomog's Block Mega Slowbro
tele's Screech Dugtrio to trap Chanseys/Clefables.
tele's Toxic/Scald/CM/Rest Suicune.
tele's entire fucking team.
Ciele got the overall usage stats for wcop up so I'll repost them here.
ORAS OU:
i don't have a lot to say about them except holy shit ban zardx and lop, lando-t sitting at 47% usage and literally holding the meta together is fucking ridiculous
scizor + ttar had a rough wcop despite being some of the best mons in the tier
holy shit talon has 72% wins which just goes to show how effective it can be given how common its checks are, this mostly ties in with diancie's high win rate too.
exca had quite a hit in usage, usually has really high usage since sand is so dominant, but with all the landos and tangs running around, it makes plenty of sense why its usage is strangely low.
reuni was only used 4 times but it won every game and it's really slept on, takes on 3 of the best megas in the tier (lop, medi, diancie) and sets up on a ton of shit, psychic typing hurts it, but it reliably breaks through fatter shit more than clef since stab psyshock is great.
manaphy is pretty strong, really takes advantage of these common heatran bulky offenses and such.
alomomola aka KINGFISH is on the rise because broken
volcanions usage and wr are just lol
Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + --- + ------- + ------ +
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + --- + ------- + ------ +
| 1 | Landorus-Therian | 153 | 47.81% | 48.37% |
| 2 | Latios | 128 | 40.00% | 49.22% |
| 3 | Heatran | 93 | 29.06% | 47.31% |
| 4 | Clefable | 85 | 26.56% | 55.29% |
| 5 | Tyranitar | 82 | 25.63% | 37.80% |
| 6 | Rotom-Wash | 78 | 24.38% | 52.56% |
| 7 | Garchomp | 69 | 21.56% | 49.28% |
| 8 | Keldeo | 67 | 20.94% | 41.79% |
| 9 | Jirachi | 62 | 19.38% | 53.23% |
| 10 | Ferrothorn | 54 | 16.88% | 53.70% |
| 11 | Tornadus-Therian | 46 | 14.38% | 54.35% |
| 12 | Weavile | 46 | 14.38% | 50.00% |
| 13 | Latias | 42 | 13.13% | 47.62% |
| 14 | Lopunny | 42 | 13.13% | 57.14% |
| 15 | Scizor | 40 | 12.50% | 37.50% |
| 16 | Starmie | 37 | 11.56% | 62.16% |
| 17 | Slowbro | 35 | 10.94% | 42.86% |
| 18 | Amoonguss | 33 | 10.31% | 51.52% |
| 19 | Tangrowth | 31 | 9.69% | 58.06% |
| 20 | Skarmory | 30 | 9.38% | 40.00% |
| 21 | Excadrill | 29 | 9.06% | 51.72% |
| 22 | Metagross | 28 | 8.75% | 53.57% |
| 23 | Azumarill | 26 | 8.13% | 50.00% |
| 24 | Diancie | 26 | 8.13% | 61.54% |
| 25 | Medicham | 25 | 7.81% | 48.00% |
| 26 | Serperior | 24 | 7.50% | 45.83% |
| 27 | Gliscor | 22 | 6.88% | 36.36% |
| 28 | Magnezone | 22 | 6.88% | 59.09% |
| 29 | Talonflame | 22 | 6.88% | 72.73% |
| 30 | Terrakion | 21 | 6.56% | 47.62% |
| 31 | Thundurus | 21 | 6.56% | 42.86% |
| 32 | Charizard | 20 | 6.25% | 50.00% |
| 33 | Manaphy | 19 | 5.94% | 63.16% |
| 34 | Sableye | 18 | 5.63% | 44.44% |
| 35 | Hippowdon | 17 | 5.31% | 64.71% |
| 36 | Mew | 17 | 5.31% | 58.82% |
| 37 | Bisharp | 14 | 4.38% | 57.14% |
| 38 | Manectric | 14 | 4.38% | 28.57% |
| 39 | Volcanion | 14 | 4.38% | 21.43% |
| 40 | Gardevoir | 13 | 4.06% | 69.23% |
| 41 | Alakazam | 12 | 3.75% | 58.33% |
| 42 | Breloom | 12 | 3.75% | 50.00% |
| 43 | Volcarona | 12 | 3.75% | 58.33% |
| 44 | Chansey | 11 | 3.44% | 27.27% |
| 45 | Gastrodon | 11 | 3.44% | 63.64% |
| 46 | Gyarados | 11 | 3.44% | 72.73% |
| 47 | Heracross | 11 | 3.44% | 45.45% |
| 48 | Pinsir | 11 | 3.44% | 36.36% |
| 49 | Klefki | 9 | 2.81% | 55.56% |
| 50 | Suicune | 9 | 2.81% | 44.44% |
| 51 | Quagsire | 8 | 2.50% | 25.00% |
| 52 | Gengar | 7 | 2.19% | 71.43% |
| 53 | Kyurem-Black | 7 | 2.19% | 71.43% |
| 54 | Nidoking | 7 | 2.19% | 42.86% |
| 55 | Raikou | 7 | 2.19% | 71.43% |
| 56 | Venusaur | 7 | 2.19% | 42.86% |
| 57 | Alomomola | 6 | 1.88% | 66.67% |
| 58 | Altaria | 6 | 1.88% | 50.00% |
| 59 | Dragonite | 6 | 1.88% | 66.67% |
| 60 | Hydreigon | 6 | 1.88% | 50.00% |
| 61 | Celebi | 5 | 1.56% | 20.00% |
| 62 | Dugtrio | 5 | 1.56% | 60.00% |
| 63 | Lucario | 4 | 1.25% | 50.00% |
| 64 | Reuniclus | 4 | 1.25% | 100.0% |
| 65 | Slowking | 4 | 1.25% | 0.00% |
| 66 | Diggersby | 3 | 0.94% | 66.67% |
| 67 | Dragalge | 3 | 0.94% | 33.33% |
| 68 | Hawlucha | 3 | 0.94% | 66.67% |
| 69 | Togekiss | 3 | 0.94% | 33.33% |
| 70 | Zapdos | 3 | 0.94% | 0.00% |
| 71 | Aerodactyl | 2 | 0.63% | 0.00% |
| 72 | Cobalion | 2 | 0.63% | 50.00% |
| 73 | Cofagrigus | 2 | 0.63% | 100.0% |
| 74 | Crawdaunt | 2 | 0.63% | 50.00% |
| 75 | Goodra | 2 | 0.63% | 0.00% |
| 76 | Infernape | 2 | 0.63% | 50.00% |
| 77 | Mandibuzz | 2 | 0.63% | 50.00% |
| 78 | Politoed | 2 | 0.63% | 100.0% |
| 79 | Swampert | 2 | 0.63% | 100.0% |
| 80 | Thundurus-Therian | 2 | 0.63% | 0.00% |
| 81 | Victini | 2 | 0.63% | 50.00% |
| 82 | Beedrill | 1 | 0.31% | 100.0% |
| 83 | Cloyster | 1 | 0.31% | 100.0% |
| 84 | Conkeldurr | 1 | 0.31% | 0.00% |
| 85 | Cresselia | 1 | 0.31% | 0.00% |
| 86 | Doublade | 1 | 0.31% | 0.00% |
| 87 | Escavalier | 1 | 0.31% | 0.00% |
| 88 | Espeon | 1 | 0.31% | 100.0% |
| 89 | Forretress | 1 | 0.31% | 100.0% |
| 90 | Kingdra | 1 | 0.31% | 100.0% |
| 91 | Krookodile | 1 | 0.31% | 0.00% |
| 92 | Magneton | 1 | 0.31% | 100.0% |
| 93 | Mienshao | 1 | 0.31% | 0.00% |
| 94 | Nidoqueen | 1 | 0.31% | 100.0% |
| 95 | Poliwrath | 1 | 0.31% | 0.00% |
| 96 | Sceptile | 1 | 0.31% | 100.0% |
| 97 | Seismitoad | 1 | 0.31% | 100.0% |
| 98 | Steelix | 1 | 0.31% | 0.00% |
| 99 | Tentacruel | 1 | 0.31% | 100.0% |
| 100 | Umbreon | 1 | 0.31% | 100.0% |
| 101 | Weezing | 1 | 0.31% | 0.00% |
+ ---- + ------------------ + --- + ------- + ------ +i don't have a lot to say about them except holy shit ban zardx and lop, lando-t sitting at 47% usage and literally holding the meta together is fucking ridiculous
scizor + ttar had a rough wcop despite being some of the best mons in the tier
holy shit talon has 72% wins which just goes to show how effective it can be given how common its checks are, this mostly ties in with diancie's high win rate too.
exca had quite a hit in usage, usually has really high usage since sand is so dominant, but with all the landos and tangs running around, it makes plenty of sense why its usage is strangely low.
reuni was only used 4 times but it won every game and it's really slept on, takes on 3 of the best megas in the tier (lop, medi, diancie) and sets up on a ton of shit, psychic typing hurts it, but it reliably breaks through fatter shit more than clef since stab psyshock is great.
manaphy is pretty strong, really takes advantage of these common heatran bulky offenses and such.
alomomola aka KINGFISH is on the rise because broken
volcanions usage and wr are just lol
Ciele got the overall usage stats for wcop up so I'll repost them here.
ORAS OU:
Code:+ ---- + ------------------ + --- + ------- + ------ + | Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % | + ---- + ------------------ + --- + ------- + ------ + | 1 | Landorus-Therian | 153 | 47.81% | 48.37% | | 2 | Latios | 128 | 40.00% | 49.22% | | 3 | Heatran | 93 | 29.06% | 47.31% | | 4 | Clefable | 85 | 26.56% | 55.29% | | 5 | Tyranitar | 82 | 25.63% | 37.80% | | 6 | Rotom-Wash | 78 | 24.38% | 52.56% | | 7 | Garchomp | 69 | 21.56% | 49.28% | | 8 | Keldeo | 67 | 20.94% | 41.79% | | 9 | Jirachi | 62 | 19.38% | 53.23% | | 10 | Ferrothorn | 54 | 16.88% | 53.70% | | 11 | Tornadus-Therian | 46 | 14.38% | 54.35% | | 12 | Weavile | 46 | 14.38% | 50.00% | | 13 | Latias | 42 | 13.13% | 47.62% | | 14 | Lopunny | 42 | 13.13% | 57.14% | | 15 | Scizor | 40 | 12.50% | 37.50% | | 16 | Starmie | 37 | 11.56% | 62.16% | | 17 | Slowbro | 35 | 10.94% | 42.86% | | 18 | Amoonguss | 33 | 10.31% | 51.52% | | 19 | Tangrowth | 31 | 9.69% | 58.06% | | 20 | Skarmory | 30 | 9.38% | 40.00% | | 21 | Excadrill | 29 | 9.06% | 51.72% | | 22 | Metagross | 28 | 8.75% | 53.57% | | 23 | Azumarill | 26 | 8.13% | 50.00% | | 24 | Diancie | 26 | 8.13% | 61.54% | | 25 | Medicham | 25 | 7.81% | 48.00% | | 26 | Serperior | 24 | 7.50% | 45.83% | | 27 | Gliscor | 22 | 6.88% | 36.36% | | 28 | Magnezone | 22 | 6.88% | 59.09% | | 29 | Talonflame | 22 | 6.88% | 72.73% | | 30 | Terrakion | 21 | 6.56% | 47.62% | | 31 | Thundurus | 21 | 6.56% | 42.86% | | 32 | Charizard | 20 | 6.25% | 50.00% | | 33 | Manaphy | 19 | 5.94% | 63.16% | | 34 | Sableye | 18 | 5.63% | 44.44% | | 35 | Hippowdon | 17 | 5.31% | 64.71% | | 36 | Mew | 17 | 5.31% | 58.82% | | 37 | Bisharp | 14 | 4.38% | 57.14% | | 38 | Manectric | 14 | 4.38% | 28.57% | | 39 | Volcanion | 14 | 4.38% | 21.43% | | 40 | Gardevoir | 13 | 4.06% | 69.23% | | 41 | Alakazam | 12 | 3.75% | 58.33% | | 42 | Breloom | 12 | 3.75% | 50.00% | | 43 | Volcarona | 12 | 3.75% | 58.33% | | 44 | Chansey | 11 | 3.44% | 27.27% | | 45 | Gastrodon | 11 | 3.44% | 63.64% | | 46 | Gyarados | 11 | 3.44% | 72.73% | | 47 | Heracross | 11 | 3.44% | 45.45% | | 48 | Pinsir | 11 | 3.44% | 36.36% | | 49 | Klefki | 9 | 2.81% | 55.56% | | 50 | Suicune | 9 | 2.81% | 44.44% | | 51 | Quagsire | 8 | 2.50% | 25.00% | | 52 | Gengar | 7 | 2.19% | 71.43% | | 53 | Kyurem-Black | 7 | 2.19% | 71.43% | | 54 | Nidoking | 7 | 2.19% | 42.86% | | 55 | Raikou | 7 | 2.19% | 71.43% | | 56 | Venusaur | 7 | 2.19% | 42.86% | | 57 | Alomomola | 6 | 1.88% | 66.67% | | 58 | Altaria | 6 | 1.88% | 50.00% | | 59 | Dragonite | 6 | 1.88% | 66.67% | | 60 | Hydreigon | 6 | 1.88% | 50.00% | | 61 | Celebi | 5 | 1.56% | 20.00% | | 62 | Dugtrio | 5 | 1.56% | 60.00% | | 63 | Lucario | 4 | 1.25% | 50.00% | | 64 | Reuniclus | 4 | 1.25% | 100.0% | | 65 | Slowking | 4 | 1.25% | 0.00% | | 66 | Diggersby | 3 | 0.94% | 66.67% | | 67 | Dragalge | 3 | 0.94% | 33.33% | | 68 | Hawlucha | 3 | 0.94% | 66.67% | | 69 | Togekiss | 3 | 0.94% | 33.33% | | 70 | Zapdos | 3 | 0.94% | 0.00% | | 71 | Aerodactyl | 2 | 0.63% | 0.00% | | 72 | Cobalion | 2 | 0.63% | 50.00% | | 73 | Cofagrigus | 2 | 0.63% | 100.0% | | 74 | Crawdaunt | 2 | 0.63% | 50.00% | | 75 | Goodra | 2 | 0.63% | 0.00% | | 76 | Infernape | 2 | 0.63% | 50.00% | | 77 | Mandibuzz | 2 | 0.63% | 50.00% | | 78 | Politoed | 2 | 0.63% | 100.0% | | 79 | Swampert | 2 | 0.63% | 100.0% | | 80 | Thundurus-Therian | 2 | 0.63% | 0.00% | | 81 | Victini | 2 | 0.63% | 50.00% | | 82 | Beedrill | 1 | 0.31% | 100.0% | | 83 | Cloyster | 1 | 0.31% | 100.0% | | 84 | Conkeldurr | 1 | 0.31% | 0.00% | | 85 | Cresselia | 1 | 0.31% | 0.00% | | 86 | Doublade | 1 | 0.31% | 0.00% | | 87 | Escavalier | 1 | 0.31% | 0.00% | | 88 | Espeon | 1 | 0.31% | 100.0% | | 89 | Forretress | 1 | 0.31% | 100.0% | | 90 | Kingdra | 1 | 0.31% | 100.0% | | 91 | Krookodile | 1 | 0.31% | 0.00% | | 92 | Magneton | 1 | 0.31% | 100.0% | | 93 | Mienshao | 1 | 0.31% | 0.00% | | 94 | Nidoqueen | 1 | 0.31% | 100.0% | | 95 | Poliwrath | 1 | 0.31% | 0.00% | | 96 | Sceptile | 1 | 0.31% | 100.0% | | 97 | Seismitoad | 1 | 0.31% | 100.0% | | 98 | Steelix | 1 | 0.31% | 0.00% | | 99 | Tentacruel | 1 | 0.31% | 100.0% | | 100 | Umbreon | 1 | 0.31% | 100.0% | | 101 | Weezing | 1 | 0.31% | 0.00% | + ---- + ------------------ + --- + ------- + ------ +
i don't have a lot to say about them except holy shit ban zardx and lop, lando-t sitting at 47% usage and literally holding the meta together is fucking ridiculous
scizor + ttar had a rough wcop despite being some of the best mons in the tier
holy shit talon has 72% wins which just goes to show how effective it can be given how common its checks are, this mostly ties in with diancie's high win rate too.
exca had quite a hit in usage, usually has really high usage since sand is so dominant, but with all the landos and tangs running around, it makes plenty of sense why its usage is strangely low.
reuni was only used 4 times but it won every game and it's really slept on, takes on 3 of the best megas in the tier (lop, medi, diancie) and sets up on a ton of shit, psychic typing hurts it, but it reliably breaks through fatter shit more than clef since stab psyshock is great.
manaphy is pretty strong, really takes advantage of these common heatran bulky offenses and such.
alomomola aka KINGFISH is on the rise because broken
volcanions usage and wr are just lol
In what WCOP matches were Espeon and Weezing used?