-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Gen VII: Pokemon Sun and Moon Discussion MKII
- Thread starter DHR-107
- Start date
- Status
It's a Dragon. The worst thing that could happen to it is to be like Druddigon but focused on Defense instead. And that wouldn't be bad.
Also, it will surely have access to Shell Smash which could overcome any weird stat distribution.
Z-MOVES:
In addition to showing off gamaplay of a Battle Royale, we got a bonus treat of seeing the Z-Move in action plus a new one at that.
Mechanics: As we thought, Z-Moves work similar to Mega Evolution. When the Pokemon has a Z-Crystal the normally empty side of the Moves screen is taken up by a Z-Move button. When you select the Z-Move, depending on the type of type of Z-Crystal you and your Pokemon are holding, the move of that type will change into the Z-Move. After the move executes it'll deduct 1 PP from that move and the Z-Move button will no longer appear. Thanks Marty for posting the image:
Answered Question: So all you need to execute a Z-Move is just to know a move of that type. Alright everyone, you can now go crazy with Z-Move combinations.
New Question: If a move has 0 PP does that mean it cannot be used for the Z-Move?
The Z-Crystal button takes up a large chunk of the empty screen. Even if there is a Z-Crystals holdable item, what about Rayquaza who only needs to know a move to Mega Evolve and not hold a Mega Stone? Will that small empty space be used as a Mega Evolution button, will there be half buttons, or will they make a Rayquazite for it?
Questions Remaining: We see a Physical Normal-type move (Pound) turned into a physical looking Z-Move. Now is that just coincidence and all Normal Z-Moves are "Hyper Sprint Attack" or, since they take the place of the move, is it category based and we have a different Z-Moves if the move it replaces is Physical or Special (and what if the move was Status?).
And what about holding a Z-Crystal? Now if you there is a holdable version of Z-Crystals for your Pokemon then there's no problem. But if the Z-Crystal is just assigned to a Pokemon outside the holding mechanics how would this work with Mega Evolution? Already there's a Pokemon concerning Mega Rayquaza, would it be alone with that problem?
Normal Z-Move: Hyper Sprint Attack: Looks okay, a bit plain but hey, it's the Normal-type, that's kind of to be expected. Extreme Speed is left in the dust.
NEW POKEMON:
Turtonator: Come with me if you want to be blown up (though I think the latter part of its name probably more comes from "detonator").
Our first non-Legendary & non-Mega Fire/Dragon-type (you'd think such an obvious type combination would be popular) and its an ugly one. I would put the Red Letter Media/Mr. Plinkett's "What's wrong with your face" meme here but we know exactly what happened to it: it got blown up. But back to being serious, with a highly offensive type combination hopefully its stats and movepool will bring the firepower to match (and it would need to considering the Fire/Dragons we do have). Though I do have concerns with it being a turtle and what its gimmick is could lead to it being slow and defensive focused.
Not helping with this worry is its Ability, Shell Armor. Crits aren't usually a big worry, they're annoying when they happen but no player really goes in expecting them. Protection from them means they become even more of a non issue, but at the same time it does take up an Ability spot for something that's not likely to happen often if at all. Blocking crits is usually a concern for defensive Pokemon, especially those who have ways of increasing their defensive stats.
There seems to be a bit of a debate going on whether its based on a mata mata turtle or the Japanese mythical kappa. My opinion:
There are plenty of times GF combined mythical creatures with something else, heck the Pokemon kappa we have no are examples of this: Golduck is a kappa duck and Ludicolo is a kappa pineapple. Also one portrayal of kappa is that they have shells which is something Golduck and Ludicolo lack; and GF splitting a trait of a mythical creature isn't uncommon either as that's what they did with the kitsune (Ninetales has the fire/mystical powers while Zoroark can cast illusions). It also shares many traits with the mata mata turtle, and not only in appearance. Both are ambush predators, disguising themselves as rocks until prey comes near. And while aquatic, the mata mata turtle prefers warmer and acidic water such that of blackwater streams, marshes, and swamps. Turtonator just takes it up to eleven with it being volcanoes. Oh, and it also has some similarities with explosives and maybe even volcanic craters. So yeah, there's quite a bit that went into its design.
Shell Trap sounds like a physical (or contact?) version of Vivillon's Powder. It sounds alright though how much damage it does will depend if its a useful tool to have or a gimmick which is overlooked for more practical moves. Considering it has a shell it'll probably get Shell Smash which could be fun, especially if it also learns Explosion, MUAWHAHA!
Now it mentions having a weak point on its stomach so I'm wondering if that will have any effect on gameplay or if its just flavor text. Like I could see it getting Weak Armor as an Ability, though that's the closest I can think to match that. If anything it sounds like something for side games to take advantage like Mystery Dungeon.
Overall my opinion on Turtonator isn't that high, it's design I could take or leave (I like the shell, but the face could use some work) and I'm worried they might take it a deadend direction despite its typing. We'll just have to wait and see.
In addition to showing off gamaplay of a Battle Royale, we got a bonus treat of seeing the Z-Move in action plus a new one at that.
Mechanics: As we thought, Z-Moves work similar to Mega Evolution. When the Pokemon has a Z-Crystal the normally empty side of the Moves screen is taken up by a Z-Move button. When you select the Z-Move, depending on the type of type of Z-Crystal you and your Pokemon are holding, the move of that type will change into the Z-Move. After the move executes it'll deduct 1 PP from that move and the Z-Move button will no longer appear. Thanks Marty for posting the image:
Answered Question: So all you need to execute a Z-Move is just to know a move of that type. Alright everyone, you can now go crazy with Z-Move combinations.
New Question: If a move has 0 PP does that mean it cannot be used for the Z-Move?
The Z-Crystal button takes up a large chunk of the empty screen. Even if there is a Z-Crystals holdable item, what about Rayquaza who only needs to know a move to Mega Evolve and not hold a Mega Stone? Will that small empty space be used as a Mega Evolution button, will there be half buttons, or will they make a Rayquazite for it?
Questions Remaining: We see a Physical Normal-type move (Pound) turned into a physical looking Z-Move. Now is that just coincidence and all Normal Z-Moves are "Hyper Sprint Attack" or, since they take the place of the move, is it category based and we have a different Z-Moves if the move it replaces is Physical or Special (and what if the move was Status?).
And what about holding a Z-Crystal? Now if you there is a holdable version of Z-Crystals for your Pokemon then there's no problem. But if the Z-Crystal is just assigned to a Pokemon outside the holding mechanics how would this work with Mega Evolution? Already there's a Pokemon concerning Mega Rayquaza, would it be alone with that problem?
Normal Z-Move: Hyper Sprint Attack: Looks okay, a bit plain but hey, it's the Normal-type, that's kind of to be expected. Extreme Speed is left in the dust.
NEW POKEMON:
Turtonator: Come with me if you want to be blown up (though I think the latter part of its name probably more comes from "detonator").
Our first non-Legendary & non-Mega Fire/Dragon-type (you'd think such an obvious type combination would be popular) and its an ugly one. I would put the Red Letter Media/Mr. Plinkett's "What's wrong with your face" meme here but we know exactly what happened to it: it got blown up. But back to being serious, with a highly offensive type combination hopefully its stats and movepool will bring the firepower to match (and it would need to considering the Fire/Dragons we do have). Though I do have concerns with it being a turtle and what its gimmick is could lead to it being slow and defensive focused.
Not helping with this worry is its Ability, Shell Armor. Crits aren't usually a big worry, they're annoying when they happen but no player really goes in expecting them. Protection from them means they become even more of a non issue, but at the same time it does take up an Ability spot for something that's not likely to happen often if at all. Blocking crits is usually a concern for defensive Pokemon, especially those who have ways of increasing their defensive stats.
There seems to be a bit of a debate going on whether its based on a mata mata turtle or the Japanese mythical kappa. My opinion:
There are plenty of times GF combined mythical creatures with something else, heck the Pokemon kappa we have no are examples of this: Golduck is a kappa duck and Ludicolo is a kappa pineapple. Also one portrayal of kappa is that they have shells which is something Golduck and Ludicolo lack; and GF splitting a trait of a mythical creature isn't uncommon either as that's what they did with the kitsune (Ninetales has the fire/mystical powers while Zoroark can cast illusions). It also shares many traits with the mata mata turtle, and not only in appearance. Both are ambush predators, disguising themselves as rocks until prey comes near. And while aquatic, the mata mata turtle prefers warmer and acidic water such that of blackwater streams, marshes, and swamps. Turtonator just takes it up to eleven with it being volcanoes. Oh, and it also has some similarities with explosives and maybe even volcanic craters. So yeah, there's quite a bit that went into its design.
Shell Trap sounds like a physical (or contact?) version of Vivillon's Powder. It sounds alright though how much damage it does will depend if its a useful tool to have or a gimmick which is overlooked for more practical moves. Considering it has a shell it'll probably get Shell Smash which could be fun, especially if it also learns Explosion, MUAWHAHA!
Now it mentions having a weak point on its stomach so I'm wondering if that will have any effect on gameplay or if its just flavor text. Like I could see it getting Weak Armor as an Ability, though that's the closest I can think to match that. If anything it sounds like something for side games to take advantage like Mystery Dungeon.
Overall my opinion on Turtonator isn't that high, it's design I could take or leave (I like the shell, but the face could use some work) and I'm worried they might take it a deadend direction despite its typing. We'll just have to wait and see.
Pikachu315111 You are quite right that a Pokémon can be based on a real animal, even if it may resemble a mythical creature. Many of the mythical beast Pokémon are also based on a real-world animal or object. Shiftry has basis in an oak tree's life cycle and a tengu. Mawile seems to be the closest to an exception, since it resembles more of a vague humanoid than other "Youkai Pokémon".
Shell Trap could be a Fire-typed Avalanche with probably the same 60 (120) base power and negative priority (though you get a "trap setting" animation at the start of the turn).
However, from the text on the website Shell Trap could also be a version of Counter with just a different animation and typing.
I'd prefer the former but I'm getting the sinking feeling that it's the latter!
EDIT:
As for Z-moves, I'm wondering more and more whether they're just a flashier incarnation of the type crystals. Perhaps their power is derived from the power of the source move by a multiplier and the type and kind (physical, special, status) determine the Z-move. It would give the one-time power boost of the type crystals while being less flexible since only a fixed set of moves can be used.
However, from the text on the website Shell Trap could also be a version of Counter with just a different animation and typing.
I'd prefer the former but I'm getting the sinking feeling that it's the latter!
EDIT:
As for Z-moves, I'm wondering more and more whether they're just a flashier incarnation of the type crystals. Perhaps their power is derived from the power of the source move by a multiplier and the type and kind (physical, special, status) determine the Z-move. It would give the one-time power boost of the type crystals while being less flexible since only a fixed set of moves can be used.
Last edited:
That's because Mawile is based on the futakuchi-onna, a woman who has a mouth in the back of her head.
In regards to Tutonator, I think I realized that all the spikes are what bothers me about the design. I know the mata mata has them, but the way it's done on Turtonator, as well as the colors, bothers me. I think Tutonator might have benefitted from a darker color scheme, idk.
I heard that it was basically a Counter that took type effectiveness into account; apparently the "not very effective" sound played when Shell Trap hit Torkoal.
Well let me explain: It's kinda like if you took Powder... and the Counter... And somehow mutate them together into one entity. (Oh, well I love the amazing incredible Powder Counter. )
In all seriousness: it's counter but tells your opponent you are using
It at the start of the the turk.
I'm honestly not feeling Turtonator. While the base idea is fine, the aesthetics of the design are borderline ugly due its face and jagged appearance. Typing is cool and all, but that's not enough to make me like it. The name also doesn't resonate with me.
I will say that at least it's not forgettable like Morelull.
I will say that at least it's not forgettable like Morelull.
I agree that the idea behind it is cool, but the appearance is not exactly what I had hoped for the first fire/dragon (the first normal Pokemon one, anyhow). It's face bugs me a lot, but I have to admit it's managed to grow on me in the short amount of time that I've been aware of it. I think it's name is the best thing about it. Even if it has nothing to do with the terminator (which it undoubtedly dosent).
I think it would look a lot cooler if its tail and limbs were thinner. I don't have a problem with it being ugly, not everything can be cute or beautiful.
I'm mostly disappointed we didn't get better clarity to some of our questions.
I somehow realized this when I first looked at Turtonator. The Sugimori artwork and Turtonator model look incredibly similar to Rainy Turtloids' sprite from MMX6.
And they're both turtle-based. How about that?
And they're both turtle-based. How about that?
I actually really like Turtonator. I know he isn't very dragon-like, or very pretty haha. But he is a new unique design off the usual "turtle pokemon" and his unique move is interesting. I love the fire and dragon typing and i hope he gets good stats
This is the one reason why I actually thought he looked kind of cool. Freaking love Megaman X man Even if X6 was absolute hax mode.I somehow realized this when I first looked at Turtonator. The Sugimori artwork and Turtonator model look incredibly similar to Rainy Turtloids' sprite from MMX6.
And they're both turtle-based. How about that?
Might try out lower tiers because of Turtonator.
I like Turtonator, but I'm worried about its stats. It looks similar to other "defensive Fire types", like Torkoal, and with its signature move being a counter trap, that may be another hint that they're pushing it to be slow and defensive. Let's hope that they put its Dragon typing to good use and give it either some Speed or Attack, because there's a lot that can go wrong here.
Somebody else already mentioned it, but Turtonator is based on a real turtle species; Chelus fimbriata, or the mata-mata turtle.
The tube on Turtonator's face is its nose, and the yellow line is bordering the mouth. It looks almost more like a strange yellow mustache, but it isn't. I like Turtonator well enough, but I think it would have been more aesthetically pleasing if it had a more triangular head like the animal it's based on.
The tube on Turtonator's face is its nose, and the yellow line is bordering the mouth. It looks almost more like a strange yellow mustache, but it isn't. I like Turtonator well enough, but I think it would have been more aesthetically pleasing if it had a more triangular head like the animal it's based on.
Somebody else already mentioned it, but Turtonator is based on a real turtle species; Chelus fimbriata, or the mata-mata turtle.
The tube on Turtonator's face is its nose, and the yellow line is bordering the mouth. It looks almost more like a strange yellow mustache, but it isn't. I like Turtonator well enough, but I think it would have been more aesthetically pleasing if it had a more triangular head like the animal it's based on.
I also think Turtonator is too jagged in design. The Mata-Mata has this wonderful mix between sharp edges, curves, and round appendages and protuberances (and look at those cute little eyes!). Turtonator, not so much. Doesn't even have the nice round eyes.
I think that the black/yellow thing is Turtonator's nose, but the yellow line is definitely it's mouth.
With the rate they've been going at, I would be surprised if a demo battle royale and a new reveal during the opening day of the championships would be the only things they would give us over the weekend. In fact, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the event today a Nintendo Treehouse that also advertised for The Legend of Zelda? Nintendo may be a primary sponsor, but I don't see Game Freak leaving all of the information drops to them over the course of the Pokémon World Championships.
Here's a better image; the last one didn't show the underside of the head very well:
The nose is used as a snorkel, and along with the cryptic coloration, allows mata-mata turtles to breath in shallow streams and marshes without breaking cover; they are ambush predators that like to feed on small fish, similar to snapping turtles. Softshell turtles, although belonging to a separate suborder (mata-mata are in suborder pleurodira and softshells are in suborder cryptodira) have the same "snorkel-snout" adaptation, and use it the same way:
- Status