Gen VII: Pokemon Sun and Moon Discussion MKII

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Not that I want to stir the Gen 4 remake pot, but if Solgaleo and Lunaala have a dimensional portal thing going on it immediately gives me Creation trio vibes. They have a cosmic-tinge in their designs too. Can't help but wonder if there's a connection… Could be nothing though, after all Hoopa does the portal thing too.

The picture-taking aspect of the game is intriguing. Is this going to be a mini-game or a competition like the BCC or Safari Zone? Will other players be able to see the pictures you take? Or does this apply to wild encounters? Don't want to get my hopes up but as a fan of Pokemon Snap I'm interested.
 
Pikachu315111 said:
Hey, had they revealed the default names for the playable characters?
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Not that I'm aware of. I assume the 'People of Alola' section on the official website would've been updated if they had.

Speaking of which, I only just noticed they included some of Shigeru Ohmori's thoughts on the games, which is pretty cool. I guess this was put up at the same time as the latest info release: http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/en-us/ohmori/
It's a good read, but the last section in particular resonates for me - "At times, the same event will feature different natural phenomena in the two versions, which can only be seen in either Pokémon Sun or Pokémon Moon, so I hope it will be fun for players to compare the two and find these differences. We’ve poured ourselves into our work so that you can feel an atmosphere and sense of closeness that makes it seem as though you are in the Alola region yourself."

I honestly haven't felt this same level of elation and anticipation since my 7th birthday (I'm 22 now), when I got a PS1 with Spyro 2 and my first deck of Pokemon cards. I was planning to get both games even if the only differences are version-exclusive Pokemon, but it sounds like they're upping the ante. I think the 12-hour time gap is a smart move, not just from a visual perspective; I'm intrigued to see how this feature will be implemented in other ways.

It's clearly evident that Ohmori, Masuda & co. aren't holding back with Gen VII, pushing the 3DS's capabilities to the limits. I'd say the enhanced graphics, characters with more human proportions and dynamic camera angles will certainly help. Soon the time will come where I can feel like a kid again; making new discoveries in a fresh, immersive adventure filled with wonder and beauty. I can't wait.
 
Josh C. said:
Not that I'm aware of. I assume the 'People of Alola' section on the official website would've been updated if they had.

Speaking of which, I only just noticed they included some of Shigeru Ohmori's thoughts on the games, which is pretty cool. I guess this was put up at the same time as the latest info release: http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/en-us/ohmori/
It's a good read, but the last section in particular resonates for me - "At times, the same event will feature different natural phenomena in the two versions, which can only be seen in either Pokémon Sun or Pokémon Moon, so I hope it will be fun for players to compare the two and find these differences. We’ve poured ourselves into our work so that you can feel an atmosphere and sense of closeness that makes it seem as though you are in the Alola region yourself."

I honestly haven't felt this same level of elation and anticipation since my 7th birthday (I'm 22 now), when I got a PS1 with Spyro 2 and my first deck of Pokemon cards. I was planning to get both games even if the only differences are version-exclusive Pokemon, but it sounds like they're upping the ante. I think the 12-hour time gap is a smart move, not just from a visual perspective; I'm intrigued to see how this feature will be implemented in other ways.

It's clearly evident that Ohmori, Masuda & co. aren't holding back with Gen VII, pushing the 3DS's capabilities to the limits. I'd say the enhanced graphics, characters with more human proportions and dynamic camera angles will certainly help. Soon the time will come where I can feel like a kid again; making new discoveries in a fresh, immersive adventure filled with wonder and beauty. I can't wait.
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It's a short and simple interview, but it still does a good job of getting you interested.

The way he answered the first question makes me think that the overall theme of these games will be unity.

The differences between Sun and Moon is all the more incentive to get both, but I'm poor so I probably won't be able to get both at the same time. I usually have no interest in getting both versions, but now I'm kind of thinking otherwise. Most people just accuse the dual versions of being a way to get more money, as they are both essentially the same, but this time, events will really play out differently in each. I'm interested in seeing how it works.

You can tell Game Freak is working hard on this. They care about it and want it to be great. We've already seen some of that care in the way the trailers are presented and the graphics of the games themselves. I've gone on about how pretty this game looks before.

I really hope this holds up to the hype. I have good feelings about this game and trust Game Freak.
 
MOD EDIT: "Leak" picture deleted.

Some people try too hard...people are getting really desperate as they wait for news from Coro Coro.

Oh well, why do people call the Coro Coro news "leaks" when they are scheduled, if anything they are released on time and withing the franchise level of desired information, why do people call them leaks?
 
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Probably because they're normally released on the 15th, but they're almost always leaked 3 days early, like clockwork.

(MOD EDIT: discussion of deleted pic deleted)
 
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Garuru said:
Probably because they're normally released on the 15th, but they're almost always leaked 3 days early, like clockwork. Can anyone make out the name of that Popplio evo? Looks like a corruption of "Popplio".
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It doesn't really matter than one was kinda debunked a week ago if I recall, I recognized it when people tried to pass it as a leak on other sites today.
 
So according to bulbapedia, Lusamine's name is derived from the garden balsam. The garden balsam is an invasive plant species on several Pacific Ocean islands. Wicke is derived from vetches or Vicia plants which are known to be generally toxic. Faba is named after Vicia faba, which is a type of Vicia plant. It is also known as the fava bean, which, in the past, has been linked to death and the afterlife in various cultures.
 
Sweetstack said:
So according to bulbapedia, Lusamine's name is derived from the garden balsam. The garden balsam is an invasive plant species on several Pacific Ocean islands. Wicke is derived from vetches or Vicia plants which are known to be generally toxic. Faba is named after Vicia faba, which is a type of Vicia plant. It is also known as the fava bean, which, in the past, has been linked to death and the afterlife in various cultures.
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Hm... I smell foreshadowing.

MOD EDIT: "leak" discussion deleted.
 
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If it's not too much trouble, next time you get (or anyone else finds) an image like that, could you *please* pop it in a spoiler tag :< I saw Pop's leaked final evo on someone's avatar on Pokebeach, so this wasn't a shock to me, but if that had been Rowlet's final evolution (which I haven't seen yet) I'd be pretty disappointed actually rather like someone had just peed on my christmas presents.
 
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D_what said:
If it's not too much trouble, next time you get (or anyone else finds) an image like that, could you *please* pop it in a spoiler tag :< I saw Pop's leaked final evo on someone's avatar on Pokebeach, so this wasn't a shock to me, but if that had been Rowlet's final evolution (which I haven't seen yet) I'd be pretty disappointed.
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What about - yet better - FOLLOW THE RULES and not post "leaks" at all unless their accuracy can be verified. Or at least take it via the mods first. I've deleted the "offending" pic and the subsequent discussion.
 
Sweetstack said:
So according to bulbapedia, Lusamine's name is derived from the garden balsam. The garden balsam is an invasive plant species on several Pacific Ocean islands. Wicke is derived from vetches or Vicia plants which are known to be generally toxic. Faba is named after Vicia faba, which is a type of Vicia plant. It is also known as the fava bean, which, in the past, has been linked to death and the afterlife in various cultures.
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Flowers keep coming up. A big theme throughout XY; a few mentions here and there in ORAS; Hawaii being known for it's nature and fauna...

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How long will it be before she makes a formal appearance?
 
Sweetstack said:
So according to bulbapedia, Lusamine's name is derived from the garden balsam. The garden balsam is an invasive plant species on several Pacific Ocean islands. Wicke is derived from vetches or Vicia plants which are known to be generally toxic. Faba is named after Vicia faba, which is a type of Vicia plant. It is also known as the fava bean, which, in the past, has been linked to death and the afterlife in various cultures.
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Yeah, these white lab coat guys on an artificial island doing nebulous "research" are totally on the level...

However, to know this you have to do a lot of research on their name origins, so I do give huge props to GF. They clearly are putting a LOT of effort into this, and I'm stoked for it.
 
Kurona said:
Flowers keep coming up. A big theme throughout XY; a few mentions here and there in ORAS; Hawaii being known for it's nature and fauna...

hqdefault.jpg


How long will it be before she makes a formal appearance?
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Character names don't count toward the flower hint. In the original Japanese EVERY important character was named after a plant. Other countries from Gen I to V went with puns of either the trainer's type specialty or another symbolic meaning. Then for some reason in Gen VI we also started following the plant theme while also trying to cram in a pun on the trainer's type specialty if they have one. So far it's been okay but I do hope they don't strictly restrict themselves to having to use a plant pun if they can't think of a good one.

AZ's Floette... I think might not be released. Unless you can transfer it over to Sun & Moon, which often you can't with these special Pokemon, if they were going to release it it would have to been earlier in the year, I'd even say on January (where we didn't have an Event Pokemon for) so it at least could have been used in this year's VGC before we move onto Gen VII. Say if they give us AZ's Floette after all the Event Pokemon are done being given away as a final farewell gift to Gen VI it'll feel a bit hollow. A reminder of what could have been, Pokemon Z, which they instead chose to shelve in order to push out the next Pokemon Generation for the 20th Anniversary. Don't get me wrong, Sun & Moon is looking great... but that's just the final insult to Kalos, the work that could have possibly gone into making Z a great game all went to Sun & Moon, even its mascot Pokemon.
 
Pikachu315111 said:
Character names don't count toward the flower hint. In the original Japanese EVERY important character was named after a plant. Other countries from Gen I to V went with puns of either the trainer's type specialty or another symbolic meaning. Then for some reason in Gen VI we also started following the plant theme while also trying to cram in a pun on the trainer's type specialty if they have one. So far it's been okay but I do hope they don't strictly restrict themselves to having to use a plant pun if they can't think of a good one.

AZ's Floette... I think might not be released. Unless you can transfer it over to Sun & Moon, which often you can't with these special Pokemon, if they were going to release it it would have to been earlier in the year, I'd even say on January (where we didn't have an Event Pokemon for) so it at least could have been used in this year's VGC before we move onto Gen VII. Say if they give us AZ's Floette after all the Event Pokemon are done being given away as a final farewell gift to Gen VI it'll feel a bit hollow. A reminder of what could have been, Pokemon Z, which they instead chose to shelve in order to push out the next Pokemon Generation for the 20th Anniversary. Don't get me wrong, Sun & Moon is looking great... but that's just the final insult to Kalos, the work that could have possibly gone into making Z a great game all went to Sun & Moon, even its mascot Pokemon.
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Kinda Like the Azure Flute and Arceus, at least... In America.

It still escapes me why people pine for a Pokemon Z version like a Norweigen Blue for the Fjords. The story would have either been a Platinum-style rehash or quite a bit weaker ala BW2, except possibly without any new areas.

From a sales standpoint, third versions always sell worse anyways, so making one may not have made as much sense from that view, which may have had more of an impact on the decision than anything.
 
Project_Mars said:
It still escapes me why people pine for a Pokemon Z version like a Norweigen Blue for the Fjords. The story would have either been a Platinum-style rehash or quite a bit weaker ala BW2, except possibly without any new areas.
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I think that it's the extra features people are looking for. Especially in the post-game.

Third versions don't have the unbeatable sales pitch of new Pokémon, so the designers tend to spice up the games a lot compared to the base games, making for overall better games. Little extra features here and there, large new areas, extra post-game facilities, new Pokémon encounters, Gym Leader and Elite Four rebattles, and of course new Pokémon formes. A third version tends to be the best and most polished iteration of the generation in question. Emerald outshone Ruby and Sapphire to the point of obsoletion, D/P are commonly regarded to be rather weak whereas Platinum is fantastic, and B2W2 fixed all the problems of B/W and then some.

We wanted to see what the designers could do with Kalos. Where would they add extra areas? What more could we do in the post-game? Which Pokémon would get new Formes? What new Megas would there be? Where does that damn Couriway Railway go?!? Kalos has great potential, and we were all eager to see where it would be taken. But ultimately, there never was a Pokémon Z. We went from the bland post-game of XY, to the bland-ish postgame of ORAS, were expecting a fantastic post-game à la B2W2 with Z, but instead it seems we're headed for another base game postgame (that is, one new area post-credits, with a Battle Tower-like facility, and few if any rebattles).

There could have been so much goodness. We don't know if there will be now. And that makes me a little sad.
 
Third Versions not selling as well as the paired versions or remakes essentially doesn't matter since you're still making money back.

In Transformers there's this thing called a redeco where you take a toy you've already made and basically recolour it - sometimes with a new head or weapon - and sell it. So Starscream for instance has since 1984 been redecoed almost consistently into a blue and red version called Thundercracker and a black and purple version called Skywarp. Those don't need to sell as well - in fact, it's very unlikely they will sell as well as Starscream who's a really huge name. But that doesn't matter, because not as much money went into making them. For Starscream - the original toy - you need to design the transformation, the robot mode, the vehicle mode; you need to make prototypes; you might need to work out how it might interact with other figures in the toyline, etc. For Thundercracker and Skywarp? At most you have to design a new head, colour layout and packaging art. That's it. At that point you don't need them to sell as well because barely any money went into them compared to the original toy; so little work went into it that you're practically guaranteed to make a profit.

And frankly, I kinda feel the same thing applies to third versions. The region and Pokémon have already been designed, all the programming's been done, most of the graphics have been done... at most for a third version, all you have to do is spruce up the areas a little bit, add a few new Pokémon forms and characters, maybe a few new facilities and boom, done. Nowhere near as much money went into making that as the original paired versions, and because it's Pokémon you still make enough money for a profit. It's very easy money whether it's sales are minuscule compared to the paired versions or not.

In addition, because it took so little effort that also means you have more time and money to devote to the next generation which really needs it.

So it's not so much that some of us have been pining for a third version - in fact by definition I kind of hate them - it's more that we're confused why they didn't do it because it would have been so easy.
 
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Kurona said:
Third Versions not selling as well as the paired versions or remakes essentially doesn't matter since you're still making money back.

In Transformers there's this thing called a redeco where you take a toy you've already made and basically recolour it - sometimes with a new head or weapon - and sell it. So Starscream for instance has since 1984 been redecoed almost consistently into a blue and red version called Thundercracker and a black and purple version called Skywarp. Those don't need to sell as well - in fact, it's very unlikely they will sell as well as Starscream who's a really huge name. But that doesn't matter, because not as much money went into making them. For Starscream - the original toy - you need to design the transformation, the robot mode, the vehicle mode; you need to make prototypes; you might need to work out how it might interact with other figures in the toyline, etc. For Thundercracker and Skywarp? At most you have to design a new head and colour layout. That's it. At that point you don't need them to sell as well because barely any money went into them compared to the original toy; so little work went into it that you're practically guaranteed to make a profit.

And frankly, I kinda feel the same thing applies to third versions. The region and Pokémon have already been designed, all the programming's been done, most of the graphics have been done... at most for a third version, all you have to do is spruce up the areas a little bit, add a few new Pokémon forms and characters, maybe a few new facilities and boom, done. Nowhere near as much money went into making that as the original paired versions, and because it's Pokémon you still make enough money for a profit. It's very easy money whether it's sales are minuscule compared to the paired versions or not.

In addition, because it took so little effort that also means you have more time and money to devote to the next generation which really needs it.

So it's not so much that some of us have been pining for a third version - in fact by definition I kind of hate them - it's more that we're confused why they didn't do it because it would have been so easy.
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Good point, I wonder what the profits actually are. The paired versions make more money... but do they make the most profit? Well, okay, probably, but maybe the profit amounts are closer than what we originally thought.

And then we got to think of it in percentages. Let's use DPP as an example. Let's say Diamond and Pearl took 1 mil to make and sold 18 million copies, that's 18x profit return. Platinum version only sold 7 million copies, but since it recycled a lot of stuff from DP it only took 500k to make. That's 14x amount return, not up to the original games amount but certainly closer and still worth it.
 
Kurona said:
Third Versions not selling as well as the paired versions or remakes essentially doesn't matter since...
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This is put way more eloquently than I ever could. Well said.

I'm actually surprised that we didn't get a Z for that same reason. 90 % of the work was already done. Making the engine is expensive. Animating all the models, designing buildings, creating textures, writing music, bugtesting everyting, that's where the time and money goes. Making a third version is just scripting, while doing very few new things. I doubt the development costs are even a quarter of what they are for base games. They tend to sell almost as well as the base games, though, so the profit margins should be larger.

Or, try flipping it around. So Game Freak spent a large sum of money creating the XY engine and designing Kalos. Past experience and fan expectations dictate that they could use the assets to create two games (XY and Z - X and Y are similiar enough to be counted as one game), for very little cost. Yet for some reason, they chose to only make one game. They only harvested half of what they sowed, so to speak. Sure, ORAS made very good use of XY's techical prep work, but the Kalos region was under-utilized. The design work that went into XY could have been used again for Z, much like the technical work was re-used for ORAS.

The groundwork was laid. Fan demand was there. There were no Pokémon games scheduled for Autumn 2015. Alternate Formes of Zygarde were already designed (revealed to the public in August 2015, if I remember correctly). Game Freak seem to have been this close to creating Z and cashing in, but for some reason they didn't. I wonder if we'll ever hear how close they were, and whether something went wrong.
 
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