Pokemon Sun and Moon Demo Datamine + Full Game Leaks Collection (Read the OP)

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Dunno if this has been commented, but according to Pokedex order:

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It seems the cloud evolve into the star, and it can evolve into Solgaleo or Lunaala. There was one leak (the one which said Lilie had a mother, and then that Aether blonde appeared) which said Solgaleo and Lunaala shared one common preevolution.

Everybody believes the cloud evolves into Lunaala and the star into Solgaleo, but it seems is as I've noticed.
 
^You're starting to get annoying (mod edit: post this was directed at is deleted now)

The question of Water Shuriken's boost intrigued me. I decided to give it a brief test against Lass Ellie (idr name), who has two mons, L36 Pikipek and Rockruff. We know from the leak that Pikipek's bulk is 35/30, and Rockruff's bulk is 45/40. Greninja is at lv.37 and has 104 Special Attack.

The damage boost is approximately 50%
Regular Greninja's Water Shuriken against Pikipek did about half of its HP in 2 hits. This means that the first hit does ~25%. I decided to run the damage calc.

128 SpA Greninja Water Shuriken (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Pikipek: 36-44 (43.9 - 53.6%) -- approx. 25% chance to 2HKO
Assumption here is that the trainer's Pikipek has 31 IVs in HP and SpD. Most trainers in the game in the main series have 0 IVs, but that'd have spiked Water Shuriken's damage to 59%-70%, so that wasn't possible.

After Battle Bond, Rockruff was sent out. I threw a Water Shuriken at it, dealing ~75% with the first hit. I went and calculated w/ Rockruff's bulk and type, and increased Greninja's base SpA to 153.

128 SpA Ash-Greninja Water Shuriken (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rockruff: 84-100 (94.3 - 112.3%) -- approx. 31.3% chance to OHKO

Once again, like w/ Pikipek, I assumed that Rockruff also has max IVs in HP and SpD, because it seems rather odd that the trainer would have a Pikipek w/ Max IVs and a Rockruff without any. With that damage calc, the first does ~50%. But with my Water Shuriken dealing ~75%, I can assume that the boost is around 50%.
Keep in mind that I've only tested this once and variances can easily occur. But I don't imagine the final number to be far off that. Probably somewhere along the lines of 40%-60%.
 
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Teambuild Tester said:
what is ur source that proves it doubled its water shuriken power in ash-greninja form??
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I've been testing it in the demo, and it is dealing twice as much as it should, based on damage calcs. For instance:

0 SpA Greninja Water Shuriken (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Pikachu: 45-54 (47.8 - 57.4%) -- approx. 50% chance to 2HKO

That is with Greninja's stats being altered to be those of Ash-Greninja, Hardy Nature and all, at Level 37 against a Level 42 Pikachu, and Water Shuriken made Special as it is now. However, in the demo, a 3-Hit Water Shuriken (with no crits) was just enough to KO, as opposed to doing just over half.
 
Considering that GF went out of their way to obscure stats/nature/typing/etc, (sprite blunder noted), and that there are still a ton of questions, I'm not yet personally convinced that much of this info is applicable to the full game. Maybe in a day or two when things have been more thoroughly poured over.
 
Uselesscrab said:
Okay, so since I can never remember the names of the new Pokemon, I took an image containing all of their sprites from reddit and did some extremely low-quality editing in of all the names we know:

JjBubbY.png


edit: for some reason Lunala doesn't show up even though I had it there. go figure
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seeing them all in one place like this, what a quirky set of pokemon we got this gen. Reminds me a lot of Gen 5.
 
Philos said:
Hope you're being sarcastic.

Hardy nature might not be ideal for Greninja but having a Pokemon with pseudo-mega that can hold items it's nuts.
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Maybe, but it's not without trade-offs. The fact that it can't run Timid means that Ash Greninja is outsped by things like Scarf Tyranitar and Tornadus-T, which normal Greninja doesn't have to worry about. The lack of Protean also means that normal Greninja hits harder with everything but Water and Dark attacks despite the lower SpA stats. Battle Bond also requires you to KO an opponent before it'll activate, so until you can do that, Ash Greninja ends up just being a worse version of normal Greninja.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it "garbage," but it seems a lot like Mega Garchomp where it has some cool things going for it, but it also has just enough flaws to make the normal form more popular anyway. I guess it'll ultimately depend on how big the Water Shuriken boost is and if there are any other unique effects associated with the transformation.
 
Agent Gibbs said:
Maybe, but it's not without trade-offs. The fact that it can't run Timid means that Ash Greninja is outsped by things like Scarf Tyranitar and Tornadus-T, which normal Greninja doesn't have to worry about. The lack of Protean also means that normal Greninja hits harder with everything but Water and Dark attacks despite the lower SpA stats. Battle Bond also requires you to KO an opponent before it'll activate, so until you can do that, Ash Greninja ends up just being a worse version of normal Greninja.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it "garbage," but it seems a lot like Mega Garchomp where it has some cool things going for it, but it also has just enough flaws to make the normal form more popular anyway. I guess it'll ultimately depend on how big the Water Shuriken boost is and if there are any other unique effects associated with the transformation.
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Is it confirmed you can't just pass down the ability by breeding? Because that'd negate the nature issue.
 
HeraChris said:
So with GF nerfing paralysis and priority in the game, two things people moaned about all of gen 6, do you reckon we'll see a nerf to something like Scald or Knock Off?
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Hard to say what will be nerfed, but Gamefreak has been pretty thorough with all of the info we have so far. Parental Bond, paralysis, priority... I'm starting to have faith that they will nerf Stealth Rock too. I'm curious about Knock Off and how it interacts with Z-Crystals though.

The sad thing is they didn't buff what needed to be buffed. The demo shows that Supersonic and Slam still has shit accuracy.
 
Agent Gibbs said:
Maybe, but it's not without trade-offs. The fact that it can't run Timid means that Ash Greninja is outsped by things like Scarf Tyranitar and Tornadus-T, which normal Greninja doesn't have to worry about. The lack of Protean also means that normal Greninja hits harder with everything but Water and Dark attacks despite the lower SpA stats. Battle Bond also requires you to KO an opponent before it'll activate, so until you can do that, Ash Greninja ends up just being a worse version of normal Greninja.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it "garbage," but it seems a lot like Mega Garchomp where it has some cool things going for it, but it also has just enough flaws to make the normal form more popular anyway. I guess it'll ultimately depend on how big the Water Shuriken boost is and if there are any other unique effects associated with the transformation.
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Well, someone posted that Water Shuriken gets a 50% boost in damage so it's speed is partially not an issue with a strong priority move like that.
 
Aura Flare Riolu said:
We don't know if Battle Bond replaces Protean or not. If it does, the locked Nature doesn't even matter.
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but didnt they already revealed that ash greninja is keeping battle bond? so no protean.....

besides 25 base power water shuriken is still not good to wallbreak stuffs, i was hoping it could turn out some insanely threatning monster to back it up with a huge drawback "ko something in order to transform"

MOD EDIT: Please don't double post.
 
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No way regular Greninja is losing Protean for Battle Bond... but there could be a decent way to confirm: checking which ability slot Ash-Greninja is using.

If it's not the third slot (IIRC that's the Hidden Ability slot), then it's exclusive.
 
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jellientje said:
Is it confirmed you can't just pass down the ability by breeding? Because that'd negate the nature issue.
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Not that I've heard of. I just assumed that it was an exclusive event sort of thing, but maybe you can get a Timid Ash Greninja. Even then, you'd still have to deal with the fact that it's essentially a Greninja with no ability until you KO something, it has weaker coverage moves than Protean Greninja even after a KO.
 
Siggu said:
Why would they need to be buffed? They are not supposed to be the moves you are going to use when you are getting serious.
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For me, it's because they are more limited in availability, and usually the more exclusive a move is, the better it should be compared to its more common counterpart. I don't know how common Confuse Ray is compared to Supersonic, and the latter has the advantage of going through subs, but... Slam is a worse Strength, which had been an HM for ages. It's not an early-game move, it's not a common move, but when one does get it, one has no incentive to use it at all.

You can often find this kind of moves, most of them a legacy of Gen I when moves sucked in general. They did buff some of them in the past, like Poison Gas accuracy for instance, but moves like Constrict or Slam (or Synchronoise, ugh) are a waste of space. If they gave me a good reason to use them in game with some unique perks, I'd be happy. But as it is, some moves are auto-skip when your newly leveled-up mon wants to learn them, because they have absolutely no use.
 
Siggu said:
Why would they need to be buffed? They are not supposed to be the moves you are going to use when you are getting serious.
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But then things like Iron Tail really needed a buff, in power and/or in accuracy... Hope there'll be a nice new Steel move. But this is more wishlisting then actual demo discussion, so I'll stop here.
 
Teambuild Tester said:
i am still hoping to see what other buffs battle bond provides
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I think everything about Battle Bond has been laid on the table. It's a matter of seeing applications, really. Is a conditional Mega Evolution that does not take up the Mega Slot worth using? Who knows. The impact on the metagame will not be clear until the game does come out and we can test it out anyway, so theorymoning whether or not Ash-Greninja will be garbage at this point serves little purpose IMO.
 
Is it confirmed that these blank spaces people have been mentioning contain pokemon? Because that would 100% explain some of the missing mons (like Drampa) around here.

Otherwise: Alola is known to be a region divided. It would make sense if we got say, island pokedexs instead of one big one. Actually: "Like the Kalos Pokédex, the Alola Pokédex is divided into several categories, the first of which is called (Japanese:メレメレずかんMelemele encyclopedia)." From Bulbapedia. Maybe we only have one?
 
TruthfulCake said:
For me, it's because they are more limited in availability, and usually the more exclusive a move is, the better it should be compared to its more common counterpart. I don't know how common Confuse Ray is compared to Supersonic, and the latter has the advantage of going through subs, but... Slam is a worse Strength, which had been an HM for ages. It's not an early-game move, it's not a common move, but when one does get it, one has no incentive to use it at all.

You can often find this kind of moves, most of them a legacy of Gen I when moves sucked in general. They did buff some of them in the past, like Poison Gas accuracy for instance, but moves like Constrict or Slam (or Synchronoise, ugh) are a waste of space. If they gave me a good reason to use them in game with some unique perks, I'd be happy. But as it is, some moves are auto-skip when your newly leveled-up mon wants to learn them, because they have absolutely no use.
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This totally overlooks the actual reason behind pokemon getting bad moves.

You fight these critters in the wild.
 
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