Pokemon Sun and Moon Demo Datamine + Full Game Leaks Collection (Read the OP)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Surely ash-greninja is even more broken than protean. It got a 50% boost to it's offensive stats which is about the same as the stab boost from protean would do. Plus it still gets stab on water and dark moves. I.E. it's ice beam does about as much as protean gren's but it's hydropump is 50% stronger. Do correct me if I'm wrong.

Also compared to megas, it may not have a proper ability but it can still hold an item (and doesn't use up a mega slot). It could even use a z-move!
 
tumblr_of86o2euNF1ql31zxo1_400.gif


This made my day xD
 
Bent1ey said:
This totally overlooks the actual reason behind pokemon getting bad moves.

You fight these critters in the wild.
Click to expand...
Personally, I categorize useful moves in game by the stages in which they are obtained. Some moves are early-game placeholders meant to stop you from steamrolling the opposition, like Ember or Water Gun as opposed to Flamethrower or Surf. Mid-game you get slightly stronger moves, like Flame Wheel or Water Pulse. Then you get to the serious moves late-game, which are also competitively viable. Early-game moves are designed to be weak and outclassed because they are plenty available early on, but they are useful because the more powerful alternatives are yet unavailable at that point.

Some of the moves I mentioned are mid-game stuff that sometimes categorically get outclassed by stuff available earlier. I understand that these moves aren't supposed to be used competitively, but they have absolutely no use in-game either. And I know some moves are intended to be absolutely useless, like Splash, for comedic or plot purposes, but we don't need an abundance of such moves. I mean if they cared to program so many moves in, at least care enough to give me an incentive to use them.

Gamefreak actually showed that they know how to buff a move to give it a niche so as to not make it completely outclassed. Look how far Poison Gas has come. Before Gen V, there is absolutely no reason to use it over Poison Powder or Toxic, but now that the accuracy is comparable and it hits multiple targets like Dark Void, it has a niche, no matter how small. Probably still won't see use competitively, but I can do stuff with it in-game. Fun stuff that I can't do with Constrict.

Not that I can do anything about it. My initial post was just a general observation on how Gamefreak takes nerfing seriously, but did not give enough consideration to buffing some of the garbage moves for in-game usability. An observation that may be too early as I only saw a couple of those moves in the demo. I may be speaking too soon for all I know.
 
StarsMmd said:
Surely ash-greninja is even more broken than protean. It got a 50% boost to it's offensive stats which is about the same as the stab boost from protean would do. Plus it still gets stab on water and dark moves. I.E. it's ice beam does about as much as protean gren's but it's hydropump is 50% stronger. Do correct me if I'm wrong.

Also compared to megas, it may not have a proper ability but it can still hold an item (and doesn't use up a mega slot). It could even use a z-move!
Click to expand...
It's still stuck with a neutral nature...
 
StarsMmd said:
Surely ash-greninja is even more broken than protean. It got a 50% boost to it's offensive stats which is about the same as the stab boost from protean would do. Plus it still gets stab on water and dark moves. I.E. it's ice beam does about as much as protean gren's but it's hydropump is 50% stronger. Do correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...
A 50% boost to base stats is not equivalent to a 50% boost to the actual stat. Assuming 153 is the correct base SpA stat for Ash Greninja, that means that Ash Greninja maxes out at 405 SpA with a neutral nature as opposed to normal Greninja's 305 max. That's only an increase of about a third. Here's a damage calculation comparison between the two:

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 199-235 (58.3 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Ash Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 265-312 (77.7 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 164-192 (48 - 56.3%) -- 88.3% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Ash Greninja Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 144-170 (42.2 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
 
mattj said:
Considering that GF went out of their way to obscure stats/nature/typing/etc, (sprite blunder noted), and that there are still a ton of questions, I'm not yet personally convinced that much of this info is applicable to the full game. Maybe in a day or two when things have been more thoroughly poured over.
Click to expand...

You misunderstand why we only extracted sprites. These sprites are used for team preview or something. They basically deleted the Pokemon files (which contain the model, stats, etc) but forgot to delete these little images used in the UI. There is no weird reason why this is all we got.

Basically they're like a parent who bought their kid a bunch of Christmas presents off of Amazon, wrapped them up so the kid can't see them, but the parent forgot to delete the Order Confirmation emails on the family email account
 
Bombkirby said:
You misunderstand why we only extracted sprites. These sprites are used for team preview or something. They basically deleted the Pokemon files (which contain the model, stats, etc) but forgot to delete these little images used in the UI. There is no weird reason why this is all we got.
Click to expand...

Kinda strange that they are using model screenshots for Team Preview, instead of good old mini-sprites. Or the very models themselves.

Then again, I didn't play the Gen VI games so it may have already been the case.
 
Siggu said:
Kinda strange that they are using model screenshots for Team Preview, instead of good old mini-sprites. Or the very models themselves.
Then again, I didn't play the Gen VI games so it may have already been the case.
Click to expand...
But these are not the models, are static images.

Actually, I still have my doubts of what exactly these images are.
 
Siggu said:
Kinda strange that they are using model screenshots for Team Preview, instead of good old mini-sprites. Or the very models themselves.

Then again, I didn't play the Gen VI games so it may have already been the case.
Click to expand...

How is that strange? They're using big screenshots because it provides a clear image instead of a a fuzzy tiny sprite that someone may not be familiar with. We are going to be seeing these in that FFA mode that you can fight random people with of varying skill levels. Clarity is important. And obviously a 2d image loads faster than the models themselves. Didn't you guys play Pokemon stadium and remember the 2d previews in that? This is basic game design/development.
 
Bombkirby said:
How is that strange? They're using big screenshots because it provides a clear image instead of a a fuzzy tiny sprite that someone may not be familiar with. We are going to be seeing these in that FFA mode that you can fight random people with of varying skill levels. Clarity is important. And obviously a 2d image loads faster than the models themselves. Didn't you guys play Pokemon stadium and remember the 2d previews in that? This is basic game design/development.
Click to expand...

I guess it's mostly me not imagining how it would look like :P
 
Do we know if Ash-Greninja is gender-locked or does it come in both male and female? If so, wouldn't we be able to breed for nature? Seeing as it is the ability that we want passed down, and not a specific move as might have been the case with previous event pokemon, wouldn't it be possible, in theory, to have someone trade you the opposite gendered Gren once the game is released so you can breed a new one? Granted, I don't think Battle Bond will show itself as an ability till the final evolution, so you may be stuck with Torrent Froakie and Frogadier.

EDIT: Or if breeding remained the same wouldn't a female Ash-Gren have a very likely chance of passing Battle Bond on? And there is also the chance to breed with ditto, regardless of gender. I.E. I wouldn't worry about Ash-Greninja's viability on its nature alone.

Also, it was mentioned that we got some data on items (I believe it was sprites). So do we know how many new ones we have? Do we have any descriptions?
 
Last edited:
dodiabla said:
Do we know if Ash-Greninja is gender-locked or does it come in both male and female? If so, wouldn't we be able to breed for nature? Seeing as it is the ability that we want passed down, and not a specific move as might have been the case with previous event pokemon, wouldn't it be possible, in theory, to have someone trade you the opposite gendered Gren once the game is released so you can breed a new one? Granted, I don't think Battle Bond will show itself as an ability till the final evolution, so you may be stuck with Torrent Froakie and Frogadier.
Click to expand...

Abilities can be passed down by a male parent while breeding with Ditto since Gen VI, AFAIK. If they don't change this, I see little reason to believe it cannot be bred, unless it is one of those event special ability. I think the only way we can do this is to check the ability slots of a normal Greninja in-game and see if Battle Bond is in any of them. Dunno if we can do this with the scrubbing; I think it depends on whether or not they scrubbed any data of Greninja outside of the one we get in the demo.
 
TruthfulCake said:
Abilities can be passed down by a male parent while breeding with Ditto since Gen VI, AFAIK. If they don't change this, I see little reason to believe it cannot be bred, unless it is one of those event special ability. I think the only way we can do this is to check the ability slots of a normal Greninja in-game and see if Battle Bond is in any of them. Dunno if we can do this with the scrubbing; I think it depends on whether or not they scrubbed any data of Greninja outside of the one we get in the demo.
Click to expand...

Have we ever had a pokemon who can breed and has a special ability? I know that they sometimes have special ability/move legendaries but those can't breed anyway. My reason for suggesting two Ash-Greninja was that I wonder if GameFreak would add it into the program that Battle Bond has lowest priority in inheritance, regardless of mother/father. Guess we may have to wait till the game is out in 1 month to find out.
 
Bombkirby said:
You misunderstand why we only extracted sprites. These sprites are used for team preview or something. They basically deleted the Pokemon files (which contain the model, stats, etc) but forgot to delete these little images used in the UI. There is no weird reason why this is all we got.

Basically they're like a parent who bought their kid a bunch of Christmas presents off of Amazon, wrapped them up so the kid can't see them, but the parent forgot to delete the Order Confirmation emails on the family email account
Click to expand...

I don't think these are team preview images. I believe these images are shown when you heal your pokemon at the Pokemon Center.
 
Mencee said:
I don't think these are team preview images. I believe these images are shown when you heal your pokemon at the Pokemon Center.
Click to expand...
I said its "something like that" because I'm not 100% sure. It could be from the credits for all I know. That's just what everyone keeps suggesting on other forums. "Team preview." But this makes too sense.
 
dodiabla said:
Have we ever had a pokemon who can breed and has a special ability? I know that they sometimes have special ability/move legendaries but those can't breed anyway. My reason for suggesting two Ash-Greninja was that I wonder if GameFreak would add it into the program that Battle Bond has lowest priority in inheritance, regardless of mother/father. Guess we may have to wait till the game is out in 1 month to find out.
Click to expand...
Not sure about this particular precedence, but a special ability that does not belong to any ability slot of a particular Pokemon can be easily hacked in by Gamefreak. This way, it won't be inherited, if I'm not mistaken. I know for a fact that there used to be an Event Arceus back in Gen IV hacked into not having Multitype, or any ability at all. Not sure if Battle Bond is one such case.

EDIT: Nvm about the Arceus, dunno if my memory is playing tricks with me, but I can no longer find references about the ability-less Arceus.
 
Last edited:
I highly doubt Ash-Greninja is gonna be breedable, because if you think about it the whole thing behind Ash-Greninja is that he has a very special bond with Ash, which is why he can transform. It wouldn't really make sense for Greninja's children who now have no connection to Ash to have the same bond (despite what some cartoons may have you believe)
 
AJC said:
the only way if won't be breedable if it's like cosplay pikachu of oras and is hardcoded to not be able to breed.
Click to expand...

So I looked into this and it seems that Cosplay Pika is placed in the Undiscovered Egg Group. The only non-baby, non-legendary pokemon in this group are Cosplay Pika, Nidorina, and Nidoqueen. So if Ash-Greninja cannot breed, it wouldn't be without precedent. All they would have to do is place it in this group, and since we get it already evolved, there is no need to worry about pre-evolutions.
 
dodiabla said:
So I looked into this and it seems that Cosplay Pika is placed in the Undiscovered Egg Group. The only non-baby, non-legendary pokemon in this group are Cosplay Pika, Nidorina, and Nidoqueen. So if Ash-Greninja cannot breed, it wouldn't be without precedent. All they would have to do is place it in this group, and since we get it already evolved, there is no need to worry about pre-evolutions.
Click to expand...

... or Ash-Greninja is hardcoded to only produce regular Froakies when breeding.

Though an Undiscovered Egg Group would be the most logical pick. (Given it becomes much more like Ash)
 
Siggu said:
... or Ash-Greninja is hardcoded to only produce regular Froakies when breeding.

Though an Undiscovered Egg Group would be the most logical pick. (Given it becomes much more like Ash)
Click to expand...
It might be the case, although the demo Greninja isn't inherently different from any other Greninja outside of its ability. Other special Pokemon that cannot breed like Eternal Floette or Spiky-Eared Pichu have inherent differences.

...Nevermind, just remembered Cosplay Pikachu. Undiscovered Egg Group is very likely now.
 
"Ash Greninja huge drawback is you need to kill something first". That reminds me of "Idk man, Mega Evolution implies the Pokémon cannot hold an item... I don't think Mega Evolution surpases the raw power of a Choice [anything] or even LO". A Pokémon like regular Greninja, with one of the wider movepools in the entire meta, should have no problem getting a kill. It's not like the Pokémon sucks without Protean to an extent it can not deal with anything. And yes, a Pokémon with plus 400 Atk and Plus 400 SpA. (and faster than Greninja, whose speed tier is already godly) is a beast. The only thing I am concerned is its nature.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top