The Unaware nerf is confirmed
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
SPOILERS! Pokemon Sun and Moon Full Game Datamine General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Nexus
- Start date
- Status
is that just a text change or actually changed in gameplay?
although it does look fairly damning RIP QUAGSIRE AND UNAWARE CLEF
Has anybody commented on the egg moves for the various Hat Pikachus?
For example, Hoenn cap notably gets Belly Drum, Sinnoh gets Perish Song, Unova gets Morning Sun and Alola gets Roost and Sucker Punch.
For example, Hoenn cap notably gets Belly Drum, Sinnoh gets Perish Song, Unova gets Morning Sun and Alola gets Roost and Sucker Punch.
So basically nothing pretty much stops boosters now? How would you handle Manaphy, Bellyjet azu, Zard X and all those strong Swords Dance and Nasty Plot users? Send all of them to Ubers? Lol...
I guess Stall is pretty much dead, unless you ban a million of things JUST to make stall viable.Ban Swords Dance?
I guess Stall is pretty much dead, unless you ban a million of things JUST to make stall viable.
I don't really play OU, but Manaphy is easily revenge killed without Wacan, Bellyjet Azumarill is easy to play around cuz there are a lot of Pokémon that can resist Aqua Jet like Latios and Kube, not to mention unorthodox options like Itemless Amoonguss, and Zard X is not hard to play around if you're careful.
The issue is not how to handle them, the issue here is how to handle them in stall
Thank God for that.
Is that factoring in STAB?
We had this thing before and after Unaware... chip damage. Sandstorm, Toxic, Rocky Helmet, possibly the new Water/Poison's Protect, plus priority, rocks, spikes. Stall isn't dead it's just evolving. And if you want to look at the tier lists these days you'll see plenty of Pokémon getting usage that are perfect in stall.
Celesteela is interesting. People always said it had "bamboo arms", but seeing as it's Steel/Flying, I have a different interpretation: They are SRBs. Solid Rocket Boosters, the kind of reusable rockets they used to lift the Space Shuttle off the launch pad.
SRBs with slanted tips, like Celesteela's arms, are found on the Ariane 5 and Atlas V launchers, among others.
Speaking of Ultra Beasts, people are asking what could possibly counter Pheromosa now that priority has gone the way of the dodo and Pheromosa sports 153 Speed and 137 Attack and Sp.Atk. Faster than everything bar Deoxys-S, which resides comfortably in Ubers...
...and this fellow:
Base 90 Attack. Aerial Ace. Pheromosa is Bug/Fighting and has base 37 Defense. Aerial Ace is a clean KO even behind Reflect or with Ninjask at -2 Attack, and no amount of Evasion is going to help. Items are not important, there's not a single relevant item that lets Pheromosa survive or makes Ninjask incapable of killing. Several barriers have to be in place for Ninjask to miss its mark. Ninjask doesn't appreciate Rocks, but it can still muscle past them and perform its single job: Killing Pheromosa 1v1. Then it can nab its Speed Boost and get the heck away before something more bulky comes along to squash it. Even if Pheromosa switches out, the incoming 'mon will have to eat an Aerial Ace, Ninjask gets the Speed Boost, and can Baton Pass +1 Speed to the appropriate counter. Ninjask is a very niche 'mon, but against Pheromosa it's perfect.
...unless Pheromosa has KO'd a Pokémon already, in which case it gets +1 Speed and will outspeed Ninjask comfortably. If Pheromosa carries Me First, it could also beat Ninjask to the KO, but I doubt that will be a particularly relevant strategy.
SRBs with slanted tips, like Celesteela's arms, are found on the Ariane 5 and Atlas V launchers, among others.
Speaking of Ultra Beasts, people are asking what could possibly counter Pheromosa now that priority has gone the way of the dodo and Pheromosa sports 153 Speed and 137 Attack and Sp.Atk. Faster than everything bar Deoxys-S, which resides comfortably in Ubers...
...and this fellow:
Base 90 Attack. Aerial Ace. Pheromosa is Bug/Fighting and has base 37 Defense. Aerial Ace is a clean KO even behind Reflect or with Ninjask at -2 Attack, and no amount of Evasion is going to help. Items are not important, there's not a single relevant item that lets Pheromosa survive or makes Ninjask incapable of killing. Several barriers have to be in place for Ninjask to miss its mark. Ninjask doesn't appreciate Rocks, but it can still muscle past them and perform its single job: Killing Pheromosa 1v1. Then it can nab its Speed Boost and get the heck away before something more bulky comes along to squash it. Even if Pheromosa switches out, the incoming 'mon will have to eat an Aerial Ace, Ninjask gets the Speed Boost, and can Baton Pass +1 Speed to the appropriate counter. Ninjask is a very niche 'mon, but against Pheromosa it's perfect.
...unless Pheromosa has KO'd a Pokémon already, in which case it gets +1 Speed and will outspeed Ninjask comfortably. If Pheromosa carries Me First, it could also beat Ninjask to the KO, but I doubt that will be a particularly relevant strategy.
Unaware can't be nerfed. No way. They wouldn't make it so it only affects attacking moves, then release a Pokemon with Unaware and no attacking moves, right?
Then again, this is GameFreak we're talking about.
Then again, this is GameFreak we're talking about.
SOUL DEW NERF!
"Soul Dew: A wondrous orb to be held by either Latios or Latias. It Raises the power of Psychic- and Dragon-type moves."
"Soul Dew: A wondrous orb to be held by either Latios or Latias. It Raises the power of Psychic- and Dragon-type moves."
So, addressing some of the...less than stellar Mons that got Buffs.
Butterfree gets Air Slash.
Arbok Gets an Attack buff (85 -> 95)
I totally missed this the first time around, but Dodrio gets Jump Kick AND Swords Dance AND a Speed buff (100 -> 110). Someone at GF must really love this thing.
Masquerain was majorly buffed in terms of Sp. Attack (80 -> 100) and Speed (60 ->80).
Cryogonal has buffs in HP (70 -> 80) and Defense (30 -> 50).
Butterfree gets Air Slash.
Arbok Gets an Attack buff (85 -> 95)
I totally missed this the first time around, but Dodrio gets Jump Kick AND Swords Dance AND a Speed buff (100 -> 110). Someone at GF must really love this thing.
Masquerain was majorly buffed in terms of Sp. Attack (80 -> 100) and Speed (60 ->80).
Cryogonal has buffs in HP (70 -> 80) and Defense (30 -> 50).
Last edited:
Uhhh...Haze Milotic?
Yes, STAB included. But I used 110 base attack by mistake instead of 101, so it no longer is a 100% 2HKO:
252+ Atk Life Orb Primal Groudon Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 312-368 (48.5 - 57.3%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO
I easily see the space theme, but I think the bamboo theme isn't coincidentalCelesteela is interesting. People always said it had "bamboo arms", but seeing as it's Steel/Flying, I have a different interpretation: They are SRBs. Solid Rocket Boosters, the kind of reusable rockets they used to lift the Space Shuttle off the launch pad.
SRBs with slanted tips, like Celesteela's arms, are found on the Ariane 5 and Atlas V launchers, among others.
Speaking of Ultra Beasts, people are asking what could possibly counter Pheromosa now that priority has gone the way of the dodo and Pheromosa sports 153 Speed and 137 Attack and Sp.Atk. Faster than everything bar Deoxys-S, which resides comfortably in Ubers...
...and this fellow:
Base 90 Attack. Aerial Ace. Pheromosa is Bug/Fighting and has base 37 Defense. Aerial Ace is a clean KO even behind Reflect or with Ninjask at -2 Attack, and no amount of Evasion is going to help. Items are not important, there's not a single relevant item that lets Pheromosa survive or makes Ninjask incapable of killing. Several barriers have to be in place for Ninjask to miss its mark. Ninjask doesn't appreciate Rocks, but it can still muscle past them and perform its single job: Killing Pheromosa 1v1. Then it can nab its Speed Boost and get the heck away before something more bulky comes along to squash it. Even if Pheromosa switches out, the incoming 'mon will have to eat an Aerial Ace, Ninjask gets the Speed Boost, and can Baton Pass +1 Speed to the appropriate counter. Ninjask is a very niche 'mon, but against Pheromosa it's perfect.
...unless Pheromosa has KO'd a Pokémon already, in which case it gets +1 Speed and will outspeed Ninjask comfortably. If Pheromosa carries Me First, it could also beat Ninjask to the KO, but I doubt that will be a particularly relevant strategy.
Tale of The Bamboo Cutter, you know?
So they nerfed Quagsire, Talon and Gengar big time, GF really hates me I see
They hate stall big fucking time, unaware users, t wave nerf, the best anti rapid spinner, the best anti Defogger and the best anti fairy priority user got hit by the nerf hammer so hard it is ridiculous.
I fear the metagame is going to devolve into who carries the appropriate scarfer or who carries the best set up win con.
You see that in alot of games. For the average johnny it's far more exciting to see something do alot of damage really fast rather then slowly overtime. Devs always cater to the casual player, and casual players tend to hate stalling strategies.
Yep this us going full casual e sport...
There is pretty much no incentive to play stall anymore, as a 1 turn fuck up means you are still outspeed, you can't stop a set up without suicidio or sacking and in general is less rewarding as a player experience.
They fucked up big time. As now the game will be centralized around this, also Chansey, Zapdos and rocky helmet full defense Landorus T will be working full time in balance.
This is what happens when a game caters to casual play, it goes to shit.
Last edited:
Long Reach will be useful, as you can safely attack mons with Static, Poison Point, Flame Body, and other abilities without getting a status problem. And if it negates Brave Bird recoil then Decidueye is gonna be amazing
It's a shame, though, since many Pokémon are actually fairly good at stall, and for some, it's the only thing they do well. But stall is a terribly boring and inefficient strategy in-game, unless Doubles is the default environment, so it's not like the stall option was ever present, fun or reliable.
- Status