Any clarifications?
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Data Pokemon Sun/Moon Battle Mechanics Research
- Thread starter Nexus
- Start date
Water Bubble not only doubles the power of Water moves, it also halves the power of incoming Fire moves AND gives immunity to burn!
(Edit: It doubles the power of Water moves regardless of STAB. Tested with a hacked Dewpider with Reflect Type against a Magnemite. Unstabbed Aqua Jet did twice the damage of unstabbed Shadow Sneak.)
Much like Sleep Talk, Z-Copycat also boosts accuracy and then uses Z-version of the previously used move, but only if the previous move was damage dealing.
(Edit: It doubles the power of Water moves regardless of STAB. Tested with a hacked Dewpider with Reflect Type against a Magnemite. Unstabbed Aqua Jet did twice the damage of unstabbed Shadow Sneak.)
Much like Sleep Talk, Z-Copycat also boosts accuracy and then uses Z-version of the previously used move, but only if the previous move was damage dealing.
Iron Fist doesn't seem to have been buffed, though my calcs are pretty inaccurate 'cause I'm using very low level Pokemon and don't have access to double battles yet. (I want to play as little of the story as possible before the games are released. I haven't even progressed past trainer school yet.)
Water Bubble doubles the power of physical and special Water-type moves regardless of the Pokemon's type, including the Z-Move Hydro Vortex, and has no affect on status Water-type moves.
If it was doubles water power + STAB than it should have been a clean KO... By an absolute mile. (85*2*1.5 = 255). Rather than 160 or 170 power. 80 power difference is HUGE.
Nexus' wording in the OP makes it sound like if its used on a mon not called Dewpider/Araquanid it doubles Water moves power. Which is great. So what I am asking is: Is this Adaptability for Dewpider/Araquanid, or does Dewpider/Araquanid NOT receive STAB on its water moves? This is a pretty big difference in my opinion.
OK: I would really like some clarification on this. The original video, Liquidation only does similar damage to SE Crunch which is 170 vs 160 power which is fine. And follows the "Doubles Water Move Power". However, I am pretty damned sure even with a max vs min roll, if STAB was included in the calc, then it would have obliterated the opposing mon in this vid. Like, it would have been a clean KO. Everyone is now hyping this as some crazy powerful attacker, when I am not so sure this is the case.
If it was doubles water power + STAB than it should have been a clean KO... By an absolute mile. (85*2*1.5 = 255). Rather than 160 or 170 power. 80 power difference is HUGE.
Nexus' wording in the OP makes it sound like if its used on a mon not called Dewpider/Araquanid it doubles Water moves power. Which is great. So what I am asking is: Is this Adaptability for Dewpider/Araquanid, or does Dewpider/Araquanid NOT receive STAB on its water moves? This is a pretty big difference in my opinion.
This is quite intriguing. I didn't test it enough with a regular Water/Bug typed Dewpider. Testing again.
So if Araquanid, he takes 0.5* damage from fire, because of his split water/ bug typing? So it would even out to the damage of a "not very effective" hit?
I think what LastFootnote meant when he asked this:
Was if the abilities activate if you are in/enter battle at like 40%HP and get dropped to 20%HP or something like that. I'm not sure about Berserk, but Emergency Exit doesn't activate in that situation according to this post:
By extension, that point also confirms that you can activate it more than once per match if you heal yourself (like with Leech Life or Leftovers for example) before dropping below 50% once more. But again, this is just for Emergency Exit, not sure about Berserk.
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Well that brings up an interesting question. Does a "typeless" type move get stab from a "typeless" type mon? The fact that a Baile Oricorio doesn't just become pure Flying means that "typeless" takes up of of its types. Probbably not, but it would be interesting to see if it does.
Double checking my numbers from my initial test, I can tell you the aqua bubble boost is still at minimum above an 87.5% boost. STAB and no STAB both agree on this.
If it's not double for some bizarre reason it's REALLY damn close. The video likely shows a min vs max roll, which is why it seems much more similar.
Edit: Oh, a request to test it on Dewpider because it might work differently. Misread that. Let's look into it...
If it's not double for some bizarre reason it's REALLY damn close. The video likely shows a min vs max roll, which is why it seems much more similar.
Edit: Oh, a request to test it on Dewpider because it might work differently. Misread that. Let's look into it...
The boost stealing effect or all of Spectral Thief?
100% sure now that Water Bubble adds a 2x multiplier on Water moves on top of STAB. Tested against a Wingull with a hacked Dewpider that knew Water Pulse/Silver Wind/Role Play/Heal Pulse. Water Pulse did double the damage of Silver Wind as long as it had Water Bubble. After it changed its ability to Hydration with Role Play, WPulse did the same damage as SWind. The test was repeated 5-6 times by healing the Wingull with heal pulse.
Yes.
Confirming these findings. The video in question just has retarded min/max rolls. Water Bubble functions the same on every Pokemon its on.
Seems Ironfirst doesnt affect Crab Hammer or Ice Hammer, although Ice Hammer is still stronger than a Iron First Ice Punch anyway barely by the looks of damage.
It looks like Hustle is a free power boost for physical Z moves, yeah.
Can Schooling be Skill Swapped/changed to another ability using Entrainment? If so, does this allow Wishiwashi to keep its School form active?
Skill Swap, Entrainment, Gastro Acid, and Worry Seed all fail.
Would you mind posting your data regarding this? Ice Hammer not being boosted by Iron Fist is frankly unbelievable.
it really sucks that -ate abilities got nerfed nonetheless, can anybody can confirm if the base power of double edge is changed as well
Edit: nvm...
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Especially since Ice Hammer's flags say it is a punching move.
Hammer Arm is boosted by it.
Hammer Arm was boosted by Iron Fist... And Considering Ice Hammer is a clone of it, it would be surprising if that didn't come across. Unless it's more based on Crabhammer... Which would suck.
Double Edge's base power is unchanged. This is something you could check if you read the text dumps.
According to OmegaDonut, Status Z-Moves can miss.
https://twitter.com/pokemon_PhD/status/797724733773152257
https://twitter.com/pokemon_PhD/status/797724733773152257
Much like Copycat, Z-Mirror Move boosts attack by 2 stages, and then copies the target's last move and executes it, and if that move was a damaging move, it is converted to its type's Z-move.
Me First works in a similar fashion, but boosts Speed instead.
The type of the Z-crystal must match that of the calling move, but not necessarily that of the called move. For example, if a Blaziken uses Z-Mirror Move on a Linoone that just used Extremespeed, it'd first get +2 atk and then use a physical Breakneck Blitz based on ESpeed, even though it held Flynium-Z and not Normalium-Z.
Me First works in a similar fashion, but boosts Speed instead.
The type of the Z-crystal must match that of the calling move, but not necessarily that of the called move. For example, if a Blaziken uses Z-Mirror Move on a Linoone that just used Extremespeed, it'd first get +2 atk and then use a physical Breakneck Blitz based on ESpeed, even though it held Flynium-Z and not Normalium-Z.
My bad. Should've checked the flags
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