Unpopular opinions

[Kurona]

What reason is there to make a show other than profit? That's literally the whole point of entertainment television.

Well... there's a lot of reasons, actually. From wanting to spread a message to even just love for a particular franchise.

Of course, nothing that really factors into the Pokémon anime and I doubt there ever will be; but not everything is so cynical as "all for profit".

 

[pika pal]

The thing is more that the Pokemon anime makes its profits on the back of the overall franchise popularity at this point rather than any of its own merits as a show. Take something like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Each incarnation of that show has come out well after the franchise was established, but despite being very obviously merchandise driven the show isn't afraid to mess with the status quo over the course of seasons. I only saw some of the 2003 incarnation in particular, yet in the course of 2 seasons I can recall major shake ups such as: shift from episodic to arcs (beginning with the Shredder), change from major villains and absence of major characters (Splinter's disappearance and defeating Shredder), drastic change of setting (they ended up on Alien worlds at one point), big twists/reveals about old characters (the Utrom's ties to their origin and Shredder), just to name a few. This is arguably one of the longest standing merchandise-driven properties, so things like TV adaptations have every excuse to lean on brand power, yet while the actual quality can be debated in circles, it's hard to say the shows were not at least trying.

In contrast, Pokemon has been on virtually the same formula since its debut, with a minor change when Gen 3 introduced non-Team Rocket syndicates: Ash goes to region, Ash challenges Gyms to compete in Pokemon League, Ash and friends stop villains world conquest schemes, main Team Rocket trio provide wacky hijinks trying to steal Pikachu. Beginning Gen 3, add "Female Player stand in competes in secondary competition as foil to Ash". When I saw Serena, I didn't think "what is this character going to do", I just thought "what was the sidequest she's going to advertise". Even in Gen 6, where they took some risks along the way, the ending clearly indicated there's no intent to even slightly change the status quo, with Ash not only losing the League again, but Greninja, potentially one of the biggest potential symbols of Ash's growth as a trainer, departing in a capacity that makes it even less likely to return than any of Ash's other "put on a bus" members.

What I'm getting at here is that while a show can be made for profit, even in the most "for profit" cases that doesn't give the creators an excuse not to try and let the show grow in some capacity. Hell, I can also bring up Friendship is Magic, but I don't follow ponies so I don't have anything to say besides that as another example of merchandise driven having a fanbase regardless.

The reason the state of the current anime bothers me is that the games and manga clearly offer enough material to do a story with the standard sense of progression and quality, whether with one character or with each region's own hero, but at this point they've dug themselves so deep into a hole with the Ash status quo, they probably can't get any faith in the show as a TV property bar pulling it up by the roots and starting a new one: Origins and Generations got a lot of hype and decent reception, and I recall in spite of their problems one consistent point of discussion was how they still handled things better than the main anime. Shows like the Simpsons and South Park are designed to be disconnected and episodic for gags, inevitably they'd get stale going on for so long when they run out of jokes, but the Pokemon anime has its stories written out and is not in a format that necessitates or even favors keeping a stringent status quo.

 

[The Heartless Dictator]

I dunno if this is a widely popular opinion for me to argue against, but it's something that's been really bugging me a lot since they came out but...

Sun and Moon are probably the worst games I've played so far concerning the after-game content, and I mean the WORST.

Ever since I've gotten my copy of Sun and beaten it, I've been very on and off going back to playing the game just because there is barely anything to do in the after-game. And I've seen some people say that X and Y had the worst after-game content but compared to Sun and Moon, they are light years away from each other. At least you have the Battle Chateau to allow you to level up without having to resort to the Elite Four hundreds of times over or having to rely on a shop in a Join Avenue-esque feature that is difficult to get in the first place without spending hours grinding for it. Hell, X and Y has more daily events, some unique to those games, that are more interesting than what we got in Sun and Moon.

The Ultra Beast quest line was admittedly a very interesting after-game event, but even that doesn't save the after-game from being, in my opinion, lackluster and boring. The Battle Tree and Festival Plaza are not good enough on their own to keep me coming back to the games.

D&P wasn't my favorite generation, but I'm looking forward to whenever GameFreak remakes them, because I know I'll probably have more fun with what after-game content those games had than what Sun and Moon had to offer.

 

[Taistelu]

I dunno if this is a widely popular opinion for me to argue against, but it's something that's been really bugging me a lot since they came out but...

Sun and Moon are probably the worst games I've played so far concerning the after-game content, and I mean the WORST.

Ever since I've gotten my copy of Sun and beaten it, I've been very on and off going back to playing the game just because there is barely anything to do in the after-game. And I've seen some people say that X and Y had the worst after-game content but compared to Sun and Moon, they are light years away from each other. At least you have the Battle Chateau to allow you to level up without having to resort to the Elite Four hundreds of times over or having to rely on a shop in a Join Avenue-esque feature that is difficult to get in the first place without spending hours grinding for it. Hell, X and Y has more daily events, some unique to those games, that are more interesting than what we got in Sun and Moon.

The Ultra Beast quest line was admittedly a very interesting after-game event, but even that doesn't save the after-game from being, in my opinion, lackluster and boring. The Battle Tree and Festival Plaza are not good enough on their own to keep me coming back to the games.

D&P wasn't my favorite generation, but I'm looking forward to whenever GameFreak remakes them, because I know I'll probably have more fun with what after-game content those games had than what Sun and Moon had to offer.

The original Red and Blue were far far worse in terms of Post Game content, there was Mewtwo and...that was about it. Nothing else at all. SuMo's postgame is, at the very least, a step up from that.

 

[Codraroll]

The original Red and Blue were far far worse in terms of Post Game content, there was Mewtwo and...that was about it. Nothing else at all. SuMo's postgame is, at the very least, a step up from that.

One step up from RBY is still pretty abysmal at this point. It's a clear step down from even XY, and multiple steps down from many other games. This is Generation Seven, Game Freak ought to have learned to make a good postgame now - as they have repeatedly demonstrated in the past. We should be way beyond the stage of basic longevity design by now.

I recently booted up BW2 to have a look at some memories, and boy, those games had it all. They were several laps ahead of SuMo. Daily events and battles galore. A large area with multiple cities to visit in the postgame. Two sets of "never-ending" battle facilities, PLUS Black Skyscraper/White Treehollow AND PokéStar Studios. Join Avenue. Several good grinding spots. Swarms. Hidden Grottoes. Eleven overworld legendaries to catch, plus a shiny Haxorus AND the N's Pokémon sidequest. Of course there are Elite Four rematches with updated teams, and Gym Leaders can be rechallenged to some extent in the PWT. There are Pokémon Musicals as well, if you're into that. And the whole region changes according to the season, so you could always buzz around and explore the changes every month, while listening to the great, dynamic music. Heck, I often revisit the Gyms in BW2 just to hear the different variations of that track.

THAT is postgame done right. ORAS didn't end Gen VI on such a high note as BW2 ended Gen V, but even that postgame was expansive enough, given what legacy limitations from RS they had to work with. Game Freak has clearly shown they can make an interesting post-game, heck, even BW1 had a quite good one (and that was also the first game in its generation). After managing to put together such a postgame, there really is no excuse to blow it so badly as they did in Sun and Moon.

 

[Sugarbear]

One step up from RBY is still pretty abysmal at this point. It's a clear step down from even XY, and multiple steps down from many other games. This is Generation Seven, Game Freak ought to have learned to make a good postgame now - as they have repeatedly demonstrated in the past. We should be way beyond the stage of basic longevity design by now.

I recently booted up BW2 to have a look at some memories, and boy, those games had it all. They were several laps ahead of SuMo. Daily events and battles galore. A large area with multiple cities to visit in the postgame. Two sets of "never-ending" battle facilities, PLUS Black Skyscraper/White Treehollow AND PokéStar Studios. Join Avenue. Several good grinding spots. Swarms. Hidden Grottoes. Eleven overworld legendaries to catch, plus a shiny Haxorus AND the N's Pokémon sidequest. Of course there are Elite Four rematches with updated teams, and Gym Leaders can be rechallenged to some extent in the PWT. There are Pokémon Musicals as well, if you're into that. And the whole region changes according to the season, so you could always buzz around and explore the changes every month, while listening to the great, dynamic music. Heck, I often revisit the Gyms in BW2 just to hear the different variations of that track.

THAT is postgame done right. ORAS didn't end Gen VI on such a high note as BW2 ended Gen V, but even that postgame was expansive enough, given what legacy limitations from RS they had to work with. Game Freak has clearly shown they can make an interesting post-game, heck, even BW1 had a quite good one (and that was also the first game in its generation). After managing to put together such a postgame, there really is no excuse to blow it so badly as they did in Sun and Moon.

X&Y had a good postgame? Are you kidding? It had the Battle Chateau and the Friend Safari - that was it! I agree with you about BW2's postgame, that was the best in the series after HG/SS IMO, and you're right that SuMo's postgame wasn't great.

I recently downloaded Red on the 3DS virtual console (so I could have Mega Charizard in SuMo) and wanted to see if it still holds up. It doesn't. At all. The sprites are ugly, Wrap / Fire Spin / Bind are completely broken, Psychic types are overpowered as hell and it's the most glitch ridden game I've ever played after Sonic 06. Special being one stat is stupid as well, and I have no idea why people say it's the best Gen style wise. Only Charizard, the legendary birds and Lapras do much for me styling wise. If you want to relive Gen 1, play Fire Red & Leaf Green.

 

[Siggu]

I recently downloaded Red on the 3DS virtual console (so I could have Mega Charizard in SuMo) and wanted to see if it still holds up. It doesn't. At all. The sprites are ugly, Wrap / Fire Spin / Bind are completely broken, Psychic types are overpowered as hell and it's the most glitch ridden game I've ever played after Sonic 06. Special being one stat is stupid as well, and I have no idea why people say it's the best Gen style wise. Only Charizard, the legendary birds and Lapras do much for me styling wise. If you want to relive Gen 1, play Fire Red & Leaf Green.

That's a given. Right now, there are only two reasons to play the Gen I games:
1) To play with glitches
2) To get the harder-to-obtain Hidden Abilities

And that's it.

 

[The Heartless Dictator]

X&Y had a good postgame? Are you kidding? It had the Battle Chateau and the Friend Safari - that was it!

It also had the Battle Maison as well, which isn't much compared to the Battle Tree, but those three had much more activity involved with them, more than what Sun and Moon had to offer.

I mentioned another point in my last post, which I didn't elaborate too much on, but it helps contribute to the problem I have with the after-game, and it's that the after-game grind in Sun and Moon is absolutely horrendous. Without a reliable facility to help you grind your Pokemon's levels, a lot of the time is spent either on,

A) Fighting the Elite Four over and over again.
B) Fighting at the Battle Buffet, which is only ONCE PER DAY.
C) Using Restaurants at the Festival Plaza to boost your levels, which are both hard to obtain normally and again, ONCE PER DAY
D) Fighting wild Pokemon at the Poni Gauntlet because it's the only location with high leveled Pokemon.
E) Leveling them up through the Pelago, which takes too long and is horrible for leveling up higher level Pokemon.

X&Y didn't have the best after-game I'll admit, but at the least they gave you a way to grind levels consistently, and in an interesting way too! I feel they didn't want you power grinding in Sun and Moon just because the Hyper Training feature is a thing and maybe(?) they didn't want people abusing it, which if that is the reason, wouldn't make sense at all since it was a feature they promoted, specifically for the crowd that was into competitive battling.

 

[Codraroll]

X&Y had a good postgame? Are you kidding? It had the Battle Chateau and the Friend Safari - that was it! I agree with you about BW2's postgame, that was the best in the series after HG/SS IMO, and you're right that SuMo's postgame wasn't great.

Nah, I consider XY's postgame to be the second worst in the series' modern time (And I consider D/P to be the first "modern" games for this purpose), but Sun and Moon's postgame is indisputably worse. No good places to grind, no new places to explore (to be fair, in this particular regard XY wasn't any better), the Battle Tree has fewer modes to play than the Maison, and precious little changes about the places you've already been to. Sun and Moon just feel totally half-assed after the Elite Four (or arguably, after Ula'ula Island). What's worse, the much-touted Hyper Training feature is locked behind a Lv. 100 treshold, but actually getting to Lv. 100 is more tedious than it has been since Gen III. At least XY had the Chateau and the Restaurants to keep you supplied with Exp.

 

[Sugarbear]

I'm not defending SuMo's postgame, it is very lacking (hopefully Stars will be better) but personally I enjoyed it more than XY's postgame. Not sure why, I just did. Maybe it's because I liked the region better.

 

[Siggu]

While Sun and Moon's postgame is bad, I don't really mind that much... unfortunately, bad postgames in the first version pair is the norm, not the exception.

It's pretty much on the level of BW1, as Looker assigns you to hunt for some beings... and nothing more.

 

[Johta]

Eh, I think the postgame is good enough. I never cared much about most facilities in the Battle Frontier save for the Battle Dome so I don't miss it one bit TBH. And I don't see much difference between the PWT and the Battle Maison/Tree honestly. In both facilities you chain 3 x 3 battles with the only difference being the novelty of it which wore off a looong time ago for me.

However I'll admit that I probably hold this opinion because I don't worry about grinding.

 

[Mova]

I have to admit that I'm not fond of battle facilities when we have Smogon to challenge the interested players, such as the standard tiers, Monotype, Doubles, and especially CAP. ;P The thing I don't like about the in-game facilities is that they tend to integrate gameplay with several Legendaries' flavor by banning the Special Legends and Mythicals. Some people in the Mysteries thread have mentioned that lore status has little to no contribution to a Pokémon's true power level.

Think about it like Devil Fruit users from One Piece. The earlier Logia users introduced in the story tend to have over-relied on their DFs, implying that the fruit doesn't get stronger; however, the user can by utilizing Haki and other weirder powers. The DF can be easily compared to a Pokémon's typing or ability like the Bug/Fire Volcarona with Flame Body or Swarm, while Haki acts more like a combination of Stats, Movepool, Ability, and even Typing. Taking the aforementioned Pokémon into account, Volcarona has access to Quiver Dance and other techniques that allow it to take advantage of its poor defensive typing. Slaking, on the other hand, has a ridicuously high BST, but it is hindered by one of the worst Abilities in the game: Truant.

In short, some Pokémon over-rely on one trait to be truly useful, such as Slaking's apparent raw power. That's where Smogon kicks in, so tiers can make "weaker" Pokémon more useful.

 

[Cresselia~~]

I want more post game content, more like GSC... but GF doesn't seem to believe people play post game at all.

Also... I want a Mega Jynx more than Alolan form.
But everyone seems to prefer the reverse.

 

[Sugarbear]

I'm down for more post game content. Mega Jynx though...eh. I'd rather have Mega Lapras.

 

[Pikachu315111]

I want more post game content, more like GSC... but GF doesn't seem to believe people play post game at all.

Also... I want a Mega Jynx more than Alolan form.
But everyone seems to prefer the reverse.

I don't think we'll ever get a post game thing like Gen II (which was more a second part of the game rather than a post game). That said, that brings an idea for post game content: give us a reason to revisit each town/city/prominent location. You can make it a one time event or something that happens daily/weekly/monthly, but why not give each town/city/prominent location something to give it and/or its people more character or lore. Maybe have a region expansive mystery you have to go all over the map to solve, or have a group of strong trainers appear all over and if you want to battle them you got to look all over the region. When players want something to do post game they aren't asking specifically for a dedicated post game location like the Battle Frontier, they just want something to do to spend at least a little bit more time in the Pokemon world and maybe even have a reason to go to places again.

Well honestly I think Jynx should have gotten an evolution along with Magmar and Electabuzz in Gen IV. They were the "com mon" version of the fire, ice, and lighting trio and all got pre-evolutions in Gen II, but then they decided to focus just on Magmar and Electabuzz in Gen IV due to the Flint and Volkner bromance (though they could have still given Jynx one, Sinnoh did have an Ice-type Gym Leader who kind of needed more Ice-types in the original Diamond & Pearl). And I still think it should get one before getting a Mega Evolution, otherwise Mega Jynx would have to find a way to compensate against the higher stat Mega Magmortar and Mega Electivire.

I'm down for more post game content. Mega Jynx though...eh. I'd rather have Mega Lapras.

We can list Pokemon we wanted to get a Mega all day, but its all up to GF who don't seem so hot on the idea of Mega Evolution now or at least at the moment. GF, we're not asking you to implement them in the story, we're just asking you to make more for competitive. Hopefully if Stars is true, now that they made all the new Pokemon and Z-Crystals are fully implemented, they can work on some more Mega (and throw in a few more specific Z-Crystals and Alolan Pokemon, may I dare even suggest for non-Gen I Pokemon? Also for Mega, give Gen V and VI some; I can understand you not wanting to do it for the current gen Pokemon).

 

[Cresselia~~]

I don't think we'll ever get a post game thing like Gen II (which was more a second part of the game rather than a post game). That said, that brings an idea for post game content: give us a reason to revisit each town/city/prominent location. You can make it a one time event or something that happens daily/weekly/monthly, but why not give each town/city/prominent location something to give it and/or its people more character or lore. Maybe have a region expansive mystery you have to go all over the map to solve, or have a group of strong trainers appear all over and if you want to battle them you got to look all over the region. When players want something to do post game they aren't asking specifically for a dedicated post game location like the Battle Frontier, they just want something to do to spend at least a little bit more time in the Pokemon world and maybe even have a reason to go to places again.

Well honestly I think Jynx should have gotten an evolution along with Magmar and Electabuzz in Gen IV. They were the "com mon" version of the fire, ice, and lighting trio and all got pre-evolutions in Gen II, but then they decided to focus just on Magmar and Electabuzz in Gen IV due to the Flint and Volkner bromance (though they could have still given Jynx one, Sinnoh did have an Ice-type Gym Leader who kind of needed more Ice-types in the original Diamond & Pearl). And I still think it should get one before getting a Mega Evolution, otherwise Mega Jynx would have to find a way to compensate against the higher stat Mega Magmortar and Mega Electivire.



We can list Pokemon we wanted to get a Mega all day, but its all up to GF who don't seem so hot on the idea of Mega Evolution now or at least at the moment. GF, we're not asking you to implement them in the story, we're just asking you to make more for competitive. Hopefully if Stars is true, now that they made all the new Pokemon and Z-Crystals are fully implemented, they can work on some more Mega (and throw in a few more specific Z-Crystals and Alolan Pokemon, may I dare even suggest for non-Gen I Pokemon? Also for Mega, give Gen V and VI some; I can understand you not wanting to do it for the current gen Pokemon).

I think I'm sort of frustrated not because any random Pokemon didn't get a Mega or so.
The real issue is that Jynx's Japanese name was indeed trademarked along with other Mega Pokemon, and Jynx, plusle and Minun were the only ones left that somehow still has no mega.
I have checked the trademarks from the Japanese site myself, and indeed it was Game Freak that trademarked Jynx's Japanese name.
It makes me feel that they were promised to have megas, but were cancelled, maybe due to political correctness again.

Trademarking a Pokemon's name takes money.
So I don't see why they are trademarking a Pokemon's name if they aren't going to market towards them.

It seems to me that they cancelled it very late, unlike Flygon which wasn't trademarked because the team couldn't come up with a good enough design, as Ken Sugimori stated in the interview.

Unless... they trademarked Jynx, Plusle and Minun as decoys on purpose...

 

[Norne]

I want more post game content, more like GSC... but GF doesn't seem to believe people play post game at all.

Also... I want a Mega Jynx more than Alolan form.
But everyone seems to prefer the reverse.

GSC postgame is actually quite mediocre, the number of trainers, available exp, dex unlock and areas available is dwarfed by DP and BW postgame areas, don't let the walking tiles fool you, those 8 extra badges barely increased the level curve.

On Jinx, yea I want a Mega only because it has an immunity ability wich gives switch ins to the base forms wich could create new opportunities to design an inbattle for change. Giving jynx just a shitty evolution like the ones in 4th gen would actually lock it on the same issue Electrivire and Magmortar share, being one trick ponies, a mega would let it play with both oblivious and dry skin into gaining a new ability mid battle.

 

[Xen]

Honestly, I think Jynx is one of those few Pokemon that really could benefit from those slight stat tweaks that Game Freak has started doing for old Pokemon since Gen VI. The competitive prowess is still there; the main problem with it is its Speed is no longer up to par by today's standards. All it really needs is a good buff to speed for it to jump up a tier or two.

That said, a mega would also be nice (I won't complain with an all-around stat boost, especially if it lets it live a physical hit), but the future of new Megas is pretty dim right now since Game Freak has seemingly ditched Megas for the Z-Crystals, and would likely continue the trend with whatever new gimmick they come up with in the future. The future of Alola-esque forms is also a little bit sketchy snce many of the Alola forms seem like they were done for Gen I pandering.

 

[Heracr055]

I think 493 was a nice, healthy number of Mons. After that I never remembered how many Pokemon there were/are.

 

[Cresselia~~]

I think 493 was a nice, healthy number of Mons. After that I never remembered how many Pokemon there were/are.

It isn't really an unpopular opinion.
Both Ken Sugimori and Shigeru Ohmori had said that the number of Pokemon has grown too much, that no one remembers them anymore.

 

[noobcubed]

Yes, Pokemon is beginning to crumble under its own weight at this point.

I think it was ORAS's version of Mauville City that made this most apparent. There's a guy who gives you the item for changing Landorus/Thundrus/Tornadus between their two forms. There's a guy who teaches Relic Song and Sacred Sword to Meloetta and Keldeo. There's a guy who gives you the Drives for Genesect. There's tutors for Blast Burn/Hydro Cannon/Frenzy Plant, and for Fire/Water/Grass Pledge. There's an NPC who wants you to show her a Regice...

As far as I know, GameFreak has always tried to make it possible to catch all the Pokemon, using just games from the most recent console. That won't be possible for much longer (particularly if Nintendo carries hybridising its home and handheld consoles as it has done with the Switch. I do not consider the Switch a handheld.)

 

[Pikachu315111]

It isn't really an unpopular opinion.
Both Ken Sugimori and Shigeru Ohmori had said that the number of Pokemon has grown too much, that no one remembers them anymore.

No one remembers the Pokemon or no one remembers Ken Sugimori and Shigeru Ohmori?

I'm going to assume the former and I don't think the issue is no one remembering certain Pokemon. It's no one cares for the Pokemon they can't immediately recall. Like they may if asked to name an unusually thought of Pokemon, but it's not like if they're shown a picture they won't recognize it (if they've been keeping up with the games, obviously they probably won't recognize a Pokemon of a generation they've never played). A Pokemon is remembered usually for how good it is in battle, a really unique gimmick it has, and/or has a stand out/easily recognizable design. If they don't then why should they be easily remembered?

 

[Mova]

Pikachu315111 No wonder the official franchise forgot about Unova's Pokémon in XY, ORAS, and SM. It's possible that the first 493 Pokémon are the franchise's staples. After all, while Unova had only new Pokémon during the first story, they didn't replace the original 493.

Think about it like Digimon Universe Appli Monsters for a moment; the Appmon will not replace older Digimon outside of the anime they star in, but they will likely get shafted alongside the Hybrid and Xros Digimon, as seen in Next 0rder with the Xros mons. Such a thing happened to Unova Pokémon in XY onward, which is why they're harder to find legitimately without asking real friends for Eggs. I wonder if this availability issue will happen with Kalos and Alola mons in the future, as well as any main region not belonging to the "four Japanese regions" of the world.

 

[Cresselia~~]

No one remembers the Pokemon or no one remembers Ken Sugimori and Shigeru Ohmori?

I'm going to assume the former and I don't think the issue is no one remembering certain Pokemon. It's no one cares for the Pokemon they can't immediately recall. Like they may if asked to name an unusually thought of Pokemon, but it's not like if they're shown a picture they won't recognize it (if they've been keeping up with the games, obviously they probably won't recognize a Pokemon of a generation they've never played). A Pokemon is remembered usually for how good it is in battle, a really unique gimmick it has, and/or has a stand out/easily recognizable design. If they don't then why should they be easily remembered?

Sorry for my bad English. I didn't realise that. lol.

Anyway, the staff members were basically saying that they will introduce less new Pokemon in upcoming games because they believe the number of Pokemon had grown too much.

I think you get what I mean, even when I can't express it properly.