NOC Matrix 12 NOC - Game Over, Mafia Wins

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shubaka claimed he'd put more effort into the game. I don't see that statement coming from scum. iv2 been disappointed in his output so far, but until day 4 or 5 I'm not gonna entertain a lynch on him
 
Votecount
King_ (3): Josh, Texas Cloverleaf, Blazade
Shubaka17 (2): KnightsofCydonia, King_
KnightsofCydonia (1): MoodyCloud

Not Voting (8): Hawkie, Pancake, Da Letter El, Former Hope, Shubaka17, Ullar, Hitmonleet, Asek
 
OK so I'll finish this tommorow I literally just finished half of d1 RVS which gave me just about no reads...

I'll take a look at the "voting form" or whatever later as I see we already lynched a Mafia Roleblocker...

And for clarification I assume we agree the setup is #7 (7: Town Jailkeeper, Mafia Roleblocker, 1-Shot BPV Townie, 1-shot Mafia Strongman, Vanilla Townie, Town Vigilante) because a Mafia Roleblocker + Vig died right? Just clarifying unless i missed a subtle point.
 
I don't see the point of lynching Shubaka or FH/now Ironicdouble today I want these d1 wagons figured out
If people really want to go after King over Knights I'll follow but if the mafia team is anything like King/Jalmont/Shubaka they have been having the most terrible day1 I've ever seen
 
Josh said:
king is scum because he personally attacked a town read among other things for no reason

leet is scum for forcing a read on me, it's a classic newbscum misyake. they believe they can't change their reads or thyol get called out for bsdprogression. leet initially scumread me for nothing and I townread him for it so he stuck with it even though there's nothing there.

knights might be town but is annoying and keeps posting useless shit among other stuff not on my mind rn
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Personally, I still think you're scummy.

Yes, yes, I know I had a list of things for me to do, but screw you guys, I can do what I want! (Also, this was on my list anyways).

JOSH ISO:

Bunch of joke posts, nothing important to look at.

Josh said:
scum being coached by asek
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I can't tell if he was being serious here or a joke. Either way, it was literally just a quote and a statement, he didn't even point out why he thought that. This is a long trend in his posts, and it's part of why I suspect him: It's a lot of small, lacking posts. To be fair, there is the whole "5 posts or force-sub" thing, but it doesn't exactly excuse empty posts.

Next is a bunch of short posts lobbying for shubaka to get lynched:

Josh said:
text shubaka
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Josh said:
I'M GOING TO WIN
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What?
Josh said:
vote shubaka
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Once again, lots of short, empty posts. Nothing much to say here, since there isn't really anything to look at.

Josh said:
I want to lynch th for being annoying ATM
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I'm guessing this was referring to FH, actually? I'm going to presume it was, which is odd, considering he suddenly jumps the shubaka lynch, using a simple reason as someone being annoying. He didn't change his vote here, which doesn't make it as bad tho.
Josh said:
can we lynch Suzuki yet
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Shubaka, did you mean? This is where they suddenly flip back to their original belief, but then, after mentioning our previois interactions in response to my vote on him, we have this:

Josh said:
for all the people who bitch about haruno i think fh might be a better policy lynch
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This has me a bit confused, but it ties things together pretty well. It strikes me as just conflicted so far, trying to decide who to lynch though.

...I'm honestly regretting doing all of this rn, especially on the phone.

MoodyCloud said:
Hitmonleet Please answer Asek asap because you're sliding into lynch territory
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Screw it, I'll do the rest later.

Basically, to sum things up, Josh, while I really don't like how he's empoof-like in his posting, is, after further scrutiny, actually thinking logical ideas, although I wish he'd espouse them more.

Anyways, going to talk about Asek's questions with a seperate post, get ready:
 
Asek said:
instead of isoing josh how about you answer the dot points yo provided for yourself on this post here

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/matrix-12-noc-day-2.3602966/page-13#post-7344200

i am most interested in your viewpoint on these

you may do your josh iso if you wish but the dot points take precedence. josh is actually a dot point anyway
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Asek's post here.

Anyways, one by one, we have these topics:
  • Asek
Asek has currently been playing very well, which is either a good thing or a bad thing. I'm personally leaning towards the former, since s/he's actively provoking discussion, making reads, and providing reasoning, which maf commonly seems to either forget or do a shoddy job of providing, ime. A very good example of this is one of the later posts he made on D1:
Asek said:
before i start did haruni ever specify why i was his lynch? hes just kind of had a vote boner for me from what i can see

Before I go into depth I have to redo my thought on king: His (kings) posts just read as shallow passerby content trying to contribute, when hes asked to elaborate on why he thinks something he just flat out doesnt answer. He provokes other town players through his general playstyle + attitiude. He just keeps tagging in players who have gone AWOL for their 'opinions' (without specifying and kind of question for them BTW) which reads like someone trying to set up activity lynches. He is going to be a detriment to town no matter what as he wont try any gamesolving as we've just seen and centralizes discussion around himself allowing (other) scum to filter away and not post to avoid raising any eyebrows. Nothing king has done has been pro towny - as such I dont see any logical reason for a town at this point to be town reading him - as such I think anyone who IS townreading king is most likely to be scum trying to capitalize off of 'free' town points by calling out a mislynch that is about to occur (likely) or very small chance of one of them being a cop who got a peek (haruno please dont spec off of this). The other option in my eyes is scum who are trying to save a teammate but if i was scum i think i would of just bussed off king by now anyway. Note this doenst constitute a king townread - his posting has been scummy and consistent with past scum king, but im more worried at this point by those people defending him then king himself - i feel if someone like ullar / haruno flipped scum king is almost certainly town which is unfortunate but something i must accept.

Alright I think today I would like to lynch a couple people. Texas Cloverleaf im about to proivde ullar case so tune in. Ullar on #283 is his first post pretty much and its a 'reads list'. Theres not too much to say about this here as its rather shallow in its reasoning imo. However noteworthy thing is ullar disagrees with king lynch - I cant see any logical reason for a townie to oppose a king lynch at this stage as pointed above. He calls fh (who i will touch on in a sec) confused town in a few posts below. Ullar then calls hawkie out on a later post (#344) as trying to jump onto any wagon he can catch - this is what town SHOULD be doing d1 - pushing multiple wagons if someone slips to try get more info and form the best possibile wagon for today. most importantly in this hawkie spat to me however is that ullar seems to break down and go into lashing out at hawkie + king ; this reads to me as pressured scum moreso then pressured town - town has no reason to flail out onto other townies in this situation - they shouldnt feel pressured so much by 1 person pushing onto them, and should be trying to provide reasons for their opinions rather then going full defensive here. Although tbh the most hilarious part of it all is king of all people calling ullars play as not trying to solve them game. What it overall leads me to lean is that ullar tried to pose as town and wasnt prepared for pressure from hawkie and collapsed under that pressure.

for a case on former hope read post #397 as well as the other king white knighting stuff hes been doing. I think out of everyone whos townread king fh is the one I could see being town - if he is town he feels animosity towards josh + myself for pressuring him + voting him earler (im pretty sure josh did this with me??) and would of known we were wrong. As such, he feels like we are pressuring king into a similar situation as the one we were pushing fh with.

Then theres haruno who reads like he knows king flips town for whatever reason, somebody who relies so heavily on power roles like haruno wouldnt usually do that as a town. Short paragraph here but haruno reads like hes trying to flush power roles and his weird confidence i sense in king flipping town which is out of his town game makes me thing he could be scum.

Does this make sense to people? I think this games gonna send me to the loony bin
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I'm liking how this is, because he actually continuing on with his points, and using evidence, even, like s/he's writing an essay. Generally, the actual logic is solid as well, which bodes towny to me.

Overall, Asek is probably one of my biggest townreads atm, and I'm highly confident with it.

If I may, I'd like to ask you a few questions as well Asek
  • Have your thoughts on King changed at all over the course of this day? If so, why?
  • Same thing, but with FH instead.
  • In the above post, you mentioned how FH was white-knighting for King. Does this now strike you as:
    • Town protecting a fellow town member?
    • Misguided town attempting to protect scum?
    • Scum attempting to pocket an easy in to Town?
    • Scum defending their teammate?
    • None of the above?
  • Given your choice, right now, who would you want to lynch, and why?
Anyways, another post for Hawkie thoughts coming up soon:
 
Well I apologize for this but legit I read the first ten-ish pages and become bored but I'll give my reads anyway based on what I saw + Voting History

Town:
Asek - From what I've seen, hes been making quite informative reads and posts, while also being criticizing. I'm leaning town on him.
Texas Cloverleaf - While I've been reading his posts and they seem sort of weird, I looked at the voting history and saw Jalmont (flipped Mafia RB) voted him twice. I don't exactly see why a scum would lynch his partner in RVS once, and then another time later, so I'm leaning town on him too.

Scum:
King_ - From what I saw, much of his posts are filler-ish and don't really explain his views. He just talks and says "happy?", but I don't think he has posted a concrete readlist (unless I'm blind which is possible). Therefore, I'm leaning scum.

Neutral/No Read:
Josh - Legit he really does post one-liners which gives me no read on him at all...

For the people not in this readlist (yes I know thats like 8 people), I think I'm just going to base my read off what people say from this page onwards because I'm too lazy to go back and figure stuff out
 
Lol ok Josh that sure is gonna get me to read the all them pages while I still got class going
I mean if it really gets down to it I'll spend a hour analyzing all the pages but I'm just a bored townie
Also Josh, would you mind giving me a readlist? Your one-liners give me no read on you and therefore I'm going to ask for a readlist which could lead me to get a concrete read on you.
 
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