Why isn't Mega-swampert in rank C in the Ou viability rank along with Mega-Sceptile?
I get sceptile but what about swamped under rain?
Why isn't Mega-swampert in rank C in the Ou viability rank along with Mega-Sceptile?
I get sceptile but what about swamped under rain?
Probably is a bit too early to tell, since it has been like 2 days since release, but I personally preffer Dual STAB + Knock OffI'm building a team with SD MeGallade as main wincon, but i'm torn on which coverage moves to add to the SD+CC bread-and-butter core:
1)Ice Punch + Knock Off, therefore ditching the Psychic STAB;
2)Zen Headbutt + coverage move;
Considering the current metagame trends (like Toxapex gaining popularity, Mew being everywhere, etc...), is it wise to drop the Psychic STAB to better handle LandoT/Bulu/whatever AND Mew at the same time, or is the neutral coverage offered by double STAB + coverage move (leaning towards Knock Off) too good to pass up? Or, for those who like to take a third option, should I just build the team accordingly (for example, by pairing Gallade with Z-Fly Lando, who covers Toxapex and deals with Clefable with EQ/SSSS if the need arises, allowing me to drop Zen)?
Yes, the prankster nerf + the accuracy nerf + the confusion nerf really hurt the move as a whole, making it much less exploitable than in gen 6Is Swagger unbanned?
No longer a problem, Marshadow just got quickbanned :/I feel like it could still pose a problem with Marshadow stealing the Attack boosts with Spectral Thief.
Did they even consider banning only Spectral Thief or Marshadium Z? The things that actually make it broken? Or is it another case of ban now and ask questions later by Smogon? I mean it's been, what, 3 days since it was released!? Ffs
I have "no clue what I'm talking about" because I never even got to use the Pokémon in question. You didn't even allow a weekend for us normal busy people to try it out. So yes, I did read the post as to why the decision was made, I just think we should stop trying to avoid complex bans when sometimes they do actually work. And specific moves and items have been banned in the past, so it's not unprecedented or that complex. And the number of checks significantly increases (on paper because I've never had a chance to actually test it) if you take away SSSS for example. I know it comes across as blatant ignorance and bias hatred towards the council, but it's a genuine concern that I'm expressing and it comes from good intentions. Just like the mods have good intentions but your methods often come across as blatant censorship :p but I digress. Once again something is banned and I can't do anything about it, but I'm happy to be that guy that speaks up and complains. I'm sure some people got to have fun with Marshadow for the two days it was around. Somebody write a memoir so I can relive the experience.Yeah except banning a move from a Pokemon also opens up a ton of different potential can of worms and possibilities. At that point, why not just ban King's Shield on Aegislash? Or Judgement on a certain Arceus form? Or Dark Void on Darkrai (in earlier gens such as ORAS or BW)? Like we just don't go about banning moves on Pokemon unless they are outright uncompetitive and unhealthy (like Gen 6 Swagger for example). And I'm also not entirely convinced that Marsh Z was the only thing pushing it over the edge. Ghostium Specteral Thief is still hella strong and still allows it to muscle through many defensive "checks" to it. Also if you read the post, you would know this, but clearly you didn't, and just decided to complain about it on here instead.
But yeah, you don't ban the move, you ban the Pokemon. That's always how its been, and we aren't all of the sudden going to make the exception for something like Marshadow.
Play Ubers. It seems like it will have a niche there. It doesn't make sense to allow our most important tier to be unplayable any longer than it takes to make a well-reasoned decision.I have "no clue what I'm talking about" because I never even got to use the Pokémon in question. You didn't even allow a weekend for us normal busy people to try it out. So yes, I did read the post as to why the decision was made, I just think we should stop trying to avoid complex bans when sometimes they do actually work. And specific moves and items have been banned in the past, so it's not unprecedented or that complex. And the number of checks significantly increases (on paper because I've never had a chance to actually test it) if you take away SSSS for example. I know it comes across as blatant ignorance and bias hatred towards the council, but it's a genuine concern that I'm expressing and it comes from good intentions. Just like the mods have good intentions but your methods often come across as blatant censorship :p but I digress. Once again something is banned and I can't do anything about it, but I'm happy to be that guy that speaks up and complains. I'm sure some people got to have fun with Marshadow for the two days it was around. Somebody write a memoir so I can relive the experience.
Banning Spectral Thief wouldn't even solve the problem. It can just use Shadow Punch. Also, why ban Marshadium Z when, like Gary said, Ghostium is very powerful too? Makes no sense. Also, a lot of people did get to try Marshadow out on the ladder and fun fact: A lot of us complained about it so...I have "no clue what I'm talking about" because I never even got to use the Pokémon in question. You didn't even allow a weekend for us normal busy people to try it out. So yes, I did read the post as to why the decision was made, I just think we should stop trying to avoid complex bans when sometimes they do actually work. And specific moves and items have been banned in the past, so it's not unprecedented or that complex. And the number of checks significantly increases (on paper because I've never had a chance to actually test it) if you take away SSSS for example. I know it comes across as blatant ignorance and bias hatred towards the council, but it's a genuine concern that I'm expressing and it comes from good intentions. Just like the mods have good intentions but your methods often come across as blatant censorship :p but I digress. Once again something is banned and I can't do anything about it, but I'm happy to be that guy that speaks up and complains. I'm sure some people got to have fun with Marshadow for the two days it was around. Somebody write a memoir so I can relive the experience.
Vincune runs Protect / Substitute / Scald / Calm Mind with a spread of 252 HP / 24 SpD / 232 Spe. The goal of the set is to use Pressure to outstall low PP Grass moves like Serperior's Leaf Storms and that kind of stuff while also PP stalling recovery moves and other low PP attacking moves. It runs enough Speed for Timid Heatran iirc so it can Sub before it gets toxic'd and the rest is invested into bulk. This explanation is kinda brief so you should probably check Suicune's on-site analysis. Oh and in case you're wondering, it's called Vincune after a user called Vince who came up with the set during wcop X or XI idrWhat is the vincune suicune set that occasionally gets mentioned? I've googled this but never found a satisfactory answer. I mean, roarcune is self-explanatory but I don't really know what "vin" means.
We value a simple banlist, and we ban what is broken. The council didn't ban Marshadium Z because they can't be sure that Marshadow wouldn't be broken without it. And, reading between the lines, I think they're much more hesitant to ban a category that has been rarely banned (Z Crystals), than a category that has been frequently banned (Pokemon). Which, if you ask me, makes sense. Like it or not, this is a tradition-heavy site.
Yeah except banning a move from a Pokemon also opens up a ton of different potential can of worms and possibilities. At that point, why not just ban King's Shield on Aegislash? Or Judgement on a certain Arceus form? Or Dark Void on Darkrai (in earlier gens such as ORAS or BW)? Like we just don't go about banning moves on Pokemon unless they are outright uncompetitive and unhealthy (like Gen 6 Swagger for example). And I'm also not entirely convinced that Marsh Z was the only thing pushing it over the edge. Ghostium Specteral Thief is still hella strong and still allows it to muscle through many defensive "checks" to it. Also if you read the post, you would know this, but clearly you didn't, and just decided to complain about it on here instead.
But yeah, you don't ban the move, you ban the Pokemon. That's always how its been, and we aren't all of the sudden going to make the exception for something like Marshadow.
They also banned Baton Pass instead of the pokemon that were abusing it. The rules change to fit the council's decision. Nothing to do with tradition or simplicity or precedent, let's be honest about this.Is this an OU-only policy because UU banned mewnium Z instead of mew?
Also, BW OU banned the combo of weather + speed boosting abilities instead of the problematic pokemon so what was the reasoning for that complex ban to happen?
it has the same BP because of TechnicianThey also banned Baton Pass instead of the pokemon that were abusing it. The rules change to fit the council's decision. Nothing to do with tradition or simplicity or precedent, let's be honest about this.
I realise it still has Shadow Punch, but it's a lot weaker than Spectral Thief, misses out on 2HKO's and can't be abused with Swagger.
A possible solution COULD have been to ban Marshadow from holding a Z Crystal. New concept yes, but Z-Crystals have only been around half a format so every option should be considered.
It would still be one of the best scarfers, great Choice Band user, run Bulk Up, or still run swagger and just substitute Ghostium Z in place of Marshadium Z, etc. The Z-move was not the only broken aspect.They also banned Baton Pass instead of the pokemon that were abusing it. The rules change to fit the council's decision. Nothing to do with tradition or simplicity or precedent, let's be honest about this.
I realise it still has Shadow Punch, but it's a lot weaker than Spectral Thief, misses out on 2HKO's and can't be abused with Swagger.
A possible solution COULD have been to ban Marshadow from holding a Z Crystal. New concept yes, but Z-Crystals have only been around half a format so every option should be considered.