I legit thought it was 70 BP for some reason. Must have been thinking of Shadow Claw :/
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Resource Simple Questions, Simple Answers Thread (read the op before posting a thread)
- Thread starter Celticpride
- Start date
I'm not even sure why this is a problem? The council already elaborated on very strong points that easily led to the decision, note that he actually has more than one characteristic going for him. Simply taking away his Z-Crystal or his Signature move would not be enough, he has viable alternatives and note as posted in the ban decision he does have other sets to capitalize on thanks to his coverage, stats, and move pool. I get that some of these statements are made in a vacuum because you did not get to play with Marshadow but the council is not going to wait for everyone to formulate a decision on a very clearly dominating force.
I think its funny that you still have people crying over the decision as if it were made in haste when the same council allowed for things like Genesect and Pheromosa to run rampant for a fairly good amount of time... If anything they've shown restraint as much as they possibly could in many decisions for the quick bans.
If anything Baton Pass is an argument against complex bans because it can be considered a failure. Even then it's not even comparable because Baton Pass was utilized by several pokemon, both good and bad. Whereas what you're advocating is an entirely isolated case...
I think its funny that you still have people crying over the decision as if it were made in haste when the same council allowed for things like Genesect and Pheromosa to run rampant for a fairly good amount of time... If anything they've shown restraint as much as they possibly could in many decisions for the quick bans.
Of all the example you had to pick... You really had to pick the one ban which underwent numerous revisions because it failed to address the problem, which only continued to evolve in light of the bans but still retaining its core essence of playstyle... Moreover, with each passing generation it got worse since new moves and pokemons to abuse the move kept being made, that it got out of hand very quickly.
If anything Baton Pass is an argument against complex bans because it can be considered a failure. Even then it's not even comparable because Baton Pass was utilized by several pokemon, both good and bad. Whereas what you're advocating is an entirely isolated case...
Last edited:
Really, it all bogs down to Marshadow being overpowered in several ways. If you banned Marshadium Z, it would use the weaker Ghostium Z (which still gets pretty much all needed KOs, though it needs some more chip damage). If you banned Spectral Thief, it would only really lose the Swagger set and the ability to counter-sweep - it would still be a huge threat on its own able to 2HKO almost everything with the Bulk Up and Life Orb sets. And etcetera.
I'm pretty sure there are things more universally considered broken like Aegislash or Blaziken that are not broken in as many fronts.
(By the way, out of curiosity... Marshadow's quickban is the fastest ever, right? Not counting those that are banned since the very point the tier was created)
I'm pretty sure there are things more universally considered broken like Aegislash or Blaziken that are not broken in as many fronts.
(By the way, out of curiosity... Marshadow's quickban is the fastest ever, right? Not counting those that are banned since the very point the tier was created)
Last edited:
Well your comments hardly make much sense either. Of course Marshadow has other viable options. The idea of banning things isn't to make a Pokémon unviable. It still has to have viable options or it wouldn't be used at all.
Then you say we can't complain about such a hasty quickban because they allowed things like Genesect and Pheromosa to run rampart for months. But that's just the point! They gave us a long time to come to an educated opinion on the level of their brokenness. You're merely strengthening the merits of my argument.
I mean, you did miss the ladder window, but marshadow was DUMB. As in, the best way to beat the opponent's marshadow on offense was to hope your marshadow won the speed tie and then proceed from there (as you can finally set up!) Pheromosa wasn't perceived as outright broken before sets such as Z-Hyper Beam and Quiver Dance became popular and made checking phero a pain. Genesect was the last of the unbanned Pokémon to go early in, and it took so long mainly because we had more important things to ban and the power level at the start of the generation was much higher.
But Marshadow was most definitely centralizing and wasting time banning aspects of it instead of facing the problem and acknowledging that an unresisted STAB combo + higher speed than Greninja + 125 attack + technician priority is OP even without the signature Z-move.
If we count any tier, I think the fastest ban was Mega Gyara or Mega Pinsir (don't remember which one) in ORAS UU (didn't last more than a few hours)
For OU, Zygarde complete lasted about as much as Marshadow I think
Yoshi
IT'S FINK DUMBASS
No I've not seen a Togekiss in a few months but I don't follow the meta that deeply so you might get a different answer from someone else.
Yeah it's definitely still usable when you look at most stall archetypes; 'SPL' stall in particular actually gets 6-0ed by it. It's got a pretty neat Firium Z set which helps it fully take on mons like Celesteela/Skarmory/Magearna efficiently. Your counterplay basically is landing a Toxic on it with Dugtrio and then hoping to stall it out and not get flinched to death with Unaware Clefable.
It really struggles against more offensive teams though which is why it isn't any higher
edit: Heal Bell is also an option I forgot about, which can negate poison from Duggy/Chansey etc and helps the whole team beat stall but does worsen your match up vs celesteela
Last edited:
How good would Mega Mane be with Koko? Not as a spam core, but Koko gives Electric Terrain support.
You would go to this thread and ask. However, as of now, pretty much every viable Pokemon in OU has an updated analysis or is in the process of finishing. Currently we are not considering adding any other Mew set at this time, so you would be wasting your time asking unfortunately.
Champion Leon
Banned deucer.
Totally realized that Dark types are immune to Prankster Destiny Bond? Is that supposed to be this way?
Champion Leon
Banned deucer.
It's weird. It failed when I used it on Mega Tyranitar, but here it shows that Prankster Destiny Bond from Mega Bannette worked on Hoopa Unbound and you can see it also had Queenly Majesty... so what is the deal?
I don't have the replay from the Mega Tyranitar, but I have the replay from the Hoopa Unbound battle:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-601469209 = replay
http://imgur.com/a/wx2mg = screenshot of the text
The only difference is when I used it against Mega Tyranitar, Bannette was my lead so I Mega Evolved it the turn I used Destiny Bond as a Suicide lead. When I used it against Hoopa-Unbound it was already Mega Evolved.
Can someone explain to me why has there been an increase of scarf gren? I keep seeing it all the time on the ladder and pokeaimmds videos and its uh bad? The main selling point of gren anyways is being able to hit every mon with its boosted protean coverage
What can it do that normal gren cant? The only thing that comes to mind is that it can revenge volcorana and dragons, but other scarfers can do that just fine too
Everytime i see one I cant help but think "this gren would be much more threatening to my team if it wasnt scarf". Whats the point of scarf?
What can it do that normal gren cant? The only thing that comes to mind is that it can revenge volcorana and dragons, but other scarfers can do that just fine too
Everytime i see one I cant help but think "this gren would be much more threatening to my team if it wasnt scarf". Whats the point of scarf?
You've just said it yourself, its a revenge killer. Its incredible speed and Protean coverage make it able to outrun most boosted threats and snipe them before they run through the entire team.
If people are running Scarf Gren, they already have a breaker and have decided they don't need another one. Running Life Orb Gren at that point is just stacking up on additional breakers and making yourself weak to set up sweepers and opposing Scarfers.
Just adding on to what Tressed already said, but yeah Greninja's amazing coverage options make it a fine scarf user. You can mold it to rkill whatever you're team is weak to, unlike other common scarfers like Keldeo and Garchomp. Hydro Pump, Rock Slide Gunk Shot, Ice Beam, Low Kick, even Spikes (among other options) can be run on a scarf set alongside the obligatory U-Turn if you're team needs it.
the thing is, i think as a scarfer, others outclass it or at least apply more pressure. Against balance teams (which are more common right now) its so easily played around.
I do get its supposed to be a revenge killer but its just underwhelming, a careful player rarely lets it do what its supposed to do (kinda like nihilego)
I mean you can literally say the same thing about the most other common scarfers in the meta. Scarf Chomp loses a ton of momentum against Growth, Bulu, Clef, and Lando bulky cores because they all take pitiful damage from its STAB moves. Keldeo can at least burn things on the switch with Scald, but it's still doing very little damage to Tangrowth, Steela, Pex, etc. Scarf Greninja always has U-turn so it is at least able to grab momentum on common switch-ins without needing to predict, and it can run a wide variety of coverage moves to revenge kill anything your team is really weak to, such as Low Kick for Mega T-tar/Tran, Ice Beam for Scarf Chomp or DD Zyg, Rock Slide for Volcarona, Gunk Shot for Tapus, etc. It has a very high base Speed tier which puts it ahead of the entire metagame, and while it's not very strong, it's strong enough to revenge kill what it's intended to.
It's not ouclassed at all, and vs unfavorable match ups, it's in a far better position than all of the other common Scarf users because of U-turn. It's easily one of the best Scarfers in the tier. Obviously it would rather be running LO with coverage, but every team is different, and Gren can definitely perform very well as a Scarfer if you have another breaker.
It's not ouclassed at all, and vs unfavorable match ups, it's in a far better position than all of the other common Scarf users because of U-turn. It's easily one of the best Scarfers in the tier. Obviously it would rather be running LO with coverage, but every team is different, and Gren can definitely perform very well as a Scarfer if you have another breaker.
Magearna is mandatory on any respectable TR
beyond that pick a TR setting lead like Uxie (or Bronzong I guess)
and a bulky TR setter like Cresselia. Porygon-2 is a momentum drain but if you really dislike cress it's an option.
then you need fellow TR abusers. mega mawile is obvious, tapu bulu and crawdaunt are also very common. i have also seen mega heracross work though i'm not a big fan of it.
if you want anything more PM Sarelya on showdown :^)
beyond that pick a TR setting lead like Uxie (or Bronzong I guess)
and a bulky TR setter like Cresselia. Porygon-2 is a momentum drain but if you really dislike cress it's an option.
then you need fellow TR abusers. mega mawile is obvious, tapu bulu and crawdaunt are also very common. i have also seen mega heracross work though i'm not a big fan of it.
if you want anything more PM Sarelya on showdown :^)