It was an Uber for the time BW2 was active but it was unbanned in recent years (under a similar restriction to Aldaron's Proposal). This is probably the reason it doesn't have an analysis. Excadrill is an amazing pkmn in BW2 Ubers regardlessWas gen 5 Excadrill OU or Uber? Its page says OU but it also doesn't have an OU analysis, just an Uber one.
I agree with Ttar, Blissey, Skarm, Zong, Scizor, Lugia, Tenta. I disagree with Forretress, Kabutops and Metagross in particular. Here is why:Some DPP noms
Tyranitar: A- to A
Ttar is one of the best rock setters in both the lead role and with lefties in the back. Serves as an emergency check to rain, special sponge and can be used with a choice item and pursuit to remove latis.
Forretress: A to B+
Has an extremely hard time spinning but is still useful for forcing in the tina and getting layers up. Outclassed by the other A rank mons.
Blissey: A to A-
Useful on stall but usually setup/spike fodder.
Skarmory: B+ to A-
Great dragon sponge and the best spike setter bar deoxys-s. Able to check a lot of the top threats in the metagame given the correct conditions: checks hp fire latis in rain and thunder latis (to an extent) in sun.
Bronzong: B to A-
Excellent SR setter and momentum machine, you can run almost anything in the other 3 slots, endure, earthquake, gyro ball, explosion, payback, toxic, protect, grass knot, hypnosis, trick room, screens, trick. One of the most splashable mons on any team.
Scizor: A to A-
Scizor isn’t what it once was. The band set is far too frail and a gamble every time it comes in on a dragon, since everything gets fire coverage. However the swords dance, choice scarf and lead sets all have their niches and banded scizor puts in huge work on rain teams.
Kabutops: C+ to A-
Hands down the best weather (speed) abuser, there is not much reason to use any other swift swim mon over this.
Lugia: B+ to A-
The physdef reflect set imo is not great anymore since swords dance/dragon dance ray/groudon are not seen as often anymore. However subcm, two attacks cm and sub pressure stall are all incredibly annoying to deal with.
Deoxys: B- to C
No real reason to use this.
Quagsire: C- to B-
Pretty standard on stall, encore is broken as fuck in this gen.
Metagross: B- to C+
Haven’t had much success with this mon, but I can see it as a decent lead or pursuit trapper. Definitely doesn’t deserve B rank tho.
Tentacruel: C+ to B
Best tspikes setter.
Qwilfish: C+ to C-
Intimidate is cool but I would never use this over tentacruel since it has a worse matchup versus most leads.
Salamence:C+ to C
It can work as a scarf mon but imo has less of a niche than the other C+s, for example heracross gets to have guts sleep talk for darkrai, and froslass and cloyster each have good antilead tools.
Abomasnow:C to C+
This thing is a cooler version of ludicolo. Leech seed + hail + protect + ice shard means that anything that kyogre switches to is going to take around 40 if it wants to kill Abomasnow. Also ice type priority never hurts.
Cresselia: C to C+
I use this occasionally if I have a big groudon weakness or want a different cm user. Can also function as a trick room/gravity (lol) setter. Overall much better than celebi, omastar, jumpluff etc.
Gengar: C to C-
Froslass without spikes. You can maybe cheese some stuff with dbond/and coverage.
Deoxys-D: C to C-
No reason to use this.
Victreebel: D to B-/C+
Best sun sweeper IMO, hits way harder than shiftry, hits the benchmark of scarf 100s, puts its checks to sleep 75% of the time, and has almost perfect coverage with solarbeam/weatherball/sucker punch for lati@s/giratinas. I might be biased since I’ve been having a lot of fun with this, which is why I have slashed C+.
Ds to C-
Dugtrio, Ninjask, Shedinja, Snorlax, Weavile
All usable but have very small niches
C-s to D rank
Azelf, Gyara, Uxie
Unusable IMO
C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the Ubers metagame, but have just as notable flaws that prevent them from being top tier threats. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be as effective as higher ranked Pokemon in Ubers. C rank Pokemon tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon.snorlax and weavile are awful and unusable as is dugtrio and most of the time ninjask. Shedinja is 20x better than those mons. qwilfish doesn't get intimidate so i guess youve never used it. abomasnow is not a better or figuratively cooler ludicolo because it is sr weak and cannot take fire moves. gyarados is 30x bettter than all of those mons. salamence can DD meaning it is better than just scarfer, wisher, mixer.
theres a million of other things that can go up or down but im not going to touch on them.
Ok, I'm not sure if Tauros is entirely outclassed, though. Being able to at the very least speed tie Latios in any scenario seems like a huge advantage tbh. And I wouldn't count out Intimidate in every situation. Sure, Tauros hates the most common physical attackers in the tier (Groudon, Deoxys-A), but it doesn't exactly fare poorly vs most others. Having access to EQ is very notable, as evident by these calcs:Tauros's Speed tier advantage is not that notable when Jolly Slaking beats Modest Lati and it lacks the special bulk to take a hit from them if it does lose the tie:
252 SpA Soul Dew Latios Thunder vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tauros: 263-310 (90 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
You need 80 HP EVs to take this hit from full, and even then it's still a likely KO after Spikes. Tauros also cannot OHKO Latios without resorting to Double-Edge, so even if it tanks it'll die to recoil damage. Keep in mind that Tauros also has to compete with CB Snorlax, which has better Attack, Selfdestruct, and considerable bulk.
I contend that Dodrio is better than Tauros. Reasons why:
-Dodrio has better Attack and still outruns Modest Lati@s with Jolly.
-STAB Drill Peck gives Dodrio a strong attack to use against Ghosts and maintains strong neutral coverage while not being weak like HP Ghost.
-Dodrio is immune to Spikes, which is a notable advantage when your primary attack is Double-Edge.
-Dodrio is immune to Earthquake, which somewhat makes up for the lack of Intimidate. This also allows Dodrio to wall EQ/HP Ghost Groudon, which is a notable defensive niche.
-Dodrio has access to a priority move (Quick Attack), which grants it some revenge killing utility, most notably against Deoxys-A.
Dodrio's main disadvantages are lack of Earthquake (has to resort to HP Ground, higher Attack partially compensates) and lack of Intimidate. Tauros's lack of weaknesses to Ice and Electric aren't very notable since it has trash special bulk, and Intimidate is only situationally useful on Tauros since it doesn't really want to switch into the most notable physical threats anyway: Groudon and Snorlax threaten paralysis, Metagross is unaffected, Ho-Oh threatens burns and has a chance to 2HKO with -1 CB HP Flying anyway, CB Steelix still has a chance to 2HKO with EQ... I can't think of any reason to use Tauros on a serious team when it competes with Lugia, Snorlax, Slaking, and even Dodrio as a CB User. If you really want to rank a kinda gimmicky CB Normal, I would sooner use Dodrio than Tauros.
I find a few of the DPP teams interesting, in particular the first team, so I will add that unless people object. My only qualm with it are some sets (Magnezone with HP Fire irks me, as the team would appreciate HP Ground to hurt Dialga a lot more). I would also love to see OTR Zong with Mag but I guess that's for another team. As for the ADV teams, I find it every non (CM) Blissey team needs 2 Lati answers in this tier. In particular both teams are extremely weak to boltbeam Latis.here are some dpp/adv stuff i made back in upl for some friends, someone may find them useful cause they are overall solid and pretty fun/easy to use
DPP
Kyogre @ Lum Berry
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 136 HP / 252 SpA / 120 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 Spe
- Thunder Wave
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Thunder
Magnezone @ Chople Berry
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Thunder Wave
- Metal Sound
Garchomp (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
Giratina (Giratina-Origin) @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 196 HP / 252 Atk / 60 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Sneak
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
Latias @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 40 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Calm Mind
- Thunder
- Roost
Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 28 Atk / 232 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Payback
- Explosion
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock
Tentacruel @ Lum Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Icy Wind
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes
Dialga @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 144 HP / 252 SpA / 112 Spe
Modest Nature
- Aura Sphere
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Pulse
- Thunder
Kyogre @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Thunder
- Water Spout
- Ice Beam
Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Def / 224 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Explosion
- Gyro Ball
- Stealth Rock
- Grass Knot
Giratina @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 132 Def / 36 SpA / 88 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Protect
- Dragon Pulse
- Will-O-Wisp
Lugia @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 208 HP / 84 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam
- Roost
Bronzong @ Lum Berry
Ability: Heatproof
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Explosion
- Trick Room
- Stealth Rock
Dialga @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Roar of Time
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Pulse
- Thunder
Palkia @ Lum Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Spacial Rend
- Trick Room
- Thunder
- Fire Blast
Heatran @ Choice Specs
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Eruption
- Dragon Pulse
- Fire Blast
- Explosion
Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Trick
- Ice Punch
- U-turn
Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 212 Atk / 160 Def / 8 SpD / 128 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Shadow Sneak
- Will-O-Wisp
- Earthquake
Dialga @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Aura Sphere
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Pulse
- Thunder
Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Def / 224 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Explosion
- Gyro Ball
- Stealth Rock
- Grass Knot
Kyogre @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Surf
- Thunder
- Water Spout
- Ice Beam
Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 220 Atk / 160 Def / 128 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Shadow Sneak
- Will-O-Wisp
- Earthquake
Kabutops @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 84 HP / 252 Atk / 172 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Waterfall
- Rapid Spin
- Low Kick
Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Extreme Speed
- Crunch
- Swords Dance
ADV
Mewtwo @ Lum Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Ice Beam
- Thunder
- Calm Mind
- Self-Destruct
Kyogre @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 224 HP / 252 SpA / 32 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Thunder Wave
- Calm Mind
Omastar @ Mystic Water
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Toxic
- Spikes
Snorlax @ Choice Band
Ability: Thick Fat
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 240 SpD / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Earthquake
- Body Slam
- Self-Destruct
Latios @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Thunder
- Calm Mind
- Recover
Deoxys-Attack @ Spell Tag
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Shadow Ball
- Extreme Speed
- Rock Slide
Slaking @ Choice Band
Ability: Truant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double-Edge
- Shadow Ball
- Return
- Focus Punch
Metagross @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 188 HP / 160 Atk / 160 SpA
Brave Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Pursuit
- Explosion
Kyogre @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 224 HP / 252 SpA / 32 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Thunder Wave
- Calm Mind
Latios @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Thunder
- Calm Mind
- Recover
Latias @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 140 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Claw
- Recover
- Refresh
Groudon @ Salac Berry
Ability: Drought
EVs: 28 HP / 252 Atk / 12 SpD / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
These are interesting teams, and it is always nice to see people providing a picture of earlier times. I always found the Grassceus/Rachi team seriously weak to sun, however. Even if Dialga gets up SR, Ho-oh can easily Roost on Arceus-Grass, Jirachi and Dialga itself. It is a strong option against most rain offensive in the tier, though, as Rachi/Grassceus/Giratina-O tend to shut down every non-Rayquaza rain offense. I'm not sure if I should add this, it would be nice with more discussion to gain more perspectives but yeah that's how I see it.just an old player passing by to give away some teams
Excadrill @ Focus Sash
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Tomb / Toxic
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
Darkrai @ Focus Sash
Ability: Bad Dreams
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Thunder
- Dark Void
- Nasty Plot
Deoxys-Attack @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Ice Beam
- Superpower
- Extreme Speed
Wobbuffet @ Custap Berry
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 80 HP / 176 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Counter
- Mirror Coat
- Encore
- Destiny Bond
Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 32 SpD / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Stone Edge
- Rock Polish
- Sleep Talk / Swords Dance
Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shadow Force
- Brick Break
- Swords Dance
- Extreme Speed
I'm not nearly as familiar with the ORAS meta as I am with the past tiers, but I think this team is pretty decent. Don't look down on it just because it doesn't have a mega. It's a pretty typical HO team but this specific combination of mons has a lot of back-up options to things in case shit goes down; there's two priority users to take down low HP stuff, sashed Darkrai which can stop something that could potentially sweep you, and a Custap Wobb. Wobb is also really good, and he helps to minimize the amount of predictions you have to do. With Pdon he lets you beat Xerneas pretty comfortably, and Ghostceus helps check Ekiller too. Exca + Darkrai is a really good lead combination that beats most things, I put Sleep Talk on Pdon as a surprise move vs offensive teams, so the lead match-up vs Darkrai is a lot more manageable, but you can put Swords Dance on there if you want a better stall match-up. Besides that, Deo-A/ This team is really fun to play since you can basically just hit things like normal HO but also have a lot of gimmicks to rely upon. I actually made a whole RMT for this team but never got around to posting it lol
Kyogre @ Choice Specs
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Water Spout
- Ice Beam
- Thunder
- Scald
Dialga @ Lum Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dragon Pulse
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock
- Roar
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SpD
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- Wish
- Body Slam
- Protect
Arceus (Arceus-Grass) @ Meadow Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 72 SpA / 180 Spe
Timid Nature
- Judgment
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Recover
Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Tail
- Shadow Sneak
- Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp
Kabutops @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- Rapid Spin
- Low Kick
This team utilizes a Jirachi/Arceus-Grass core which let's the team wall a bunch of things that's pretty hard to otherwise. Jirachi is fun to use with Specs Ogre since Jirachi can spread para and Wish pass, as well as come directly into Lati@s and what have you that like to switch in on Specs Ogre. Kabutops really shines here as a revenge killer/sweeper/spinner/Arceus-Normal check. Arceus-Grass can sweep pretty easily and is a great check Kyogre/Palkia. I haven't played BW2 that often recently so I can't comment on how well it would do nowadays, but back in the day this team was very effective.
here are some of my BW1 teams, which existed before Soul Dew and Genesect were things, I've tried them out against a few players recently and they still do pretty decently to my surprise.
Arceus-Grass @ Meadow Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 72 SpA / 180 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Recover
Kyogre @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Ice Beam
- Thunder
- Surf
Dialga @ Lum Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 56 SpA / 200 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Thunder
- Stealth Rock
- Roar
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Taunt
- Substitute
- Toxic
Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Pain Split
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
Giratina @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roar
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
The team above this one was originally this team, but modified for the BW2 metagame. Well, this team here was extremely effective for me when BW1 was the meta. The highlight for me is Gliscor, he can come in and screw over a bunch of mons like Forretress/Ferrothorn/Giratina etc. Besides that, it was pretty much what was standard Rain Balance at the time.
the following might be one of the most well-known Ubers teams of all time. As of writing this, it has nearly 16,000 views on the PO Forums
Giratina-O (Giratina-Origin) @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Outrage
- Shadow Sneak
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 8 Def / 248 SpD
Careful Nature
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
Kyogre @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Thunder Wave / Roar
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Arceus @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Shadow Claw
- Swords Dance
- Recover
Dialga @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Thunder
- Aura Sphere
Manaphy @ Wacan Berry
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
- Surf
- Grass Knot / Ice Beam
- Tail Glow
- Rest
A lot of you probably recognize this team. At least from my experience, this team has been surprisingly good to this day. Manaphy can destroy a ton of teams because they're unprepared for it; being able to boost extremely quickly and Rest off any status or damage, Manaphy can really get rolling once Kyogre/Ferrothorn start luring things in and paralyzing them. Arceus-Normal is great too; I was one of the first people I knew to use the bulky max HP set with Recover, and it can really do wonders. Even modern teams with Arceus-Fighting/Ferro cores can lose to Arceus-Normal by itself, since at +2 he can 2HKO Arceus-Fighting and live through Judgement, while Ferrothorn itself can't really do much to Arceus besides Leech Seed and Spike up. I've won many games from people simply thinking they can stay with their paralyzed Ferrothorn once they learn I have Recover, only for me to boost up to +6 and either power through Ferro with paras or PP stall out Gyro Ball. Kyogre's a great mon to spread paralysis around which helps with Manaphy and Arceus-Normal to sweep. Mix Giratina-O is a early BW staple and he can still generally surprises people by throwing out Draco Meteors and then Outrages. Scarf Dialga was the mon I used as a way to revenge kill Arceus-Normals, and he also is used as a great surprise Pokemon that's also fairly bulky. This team doesn't have a spinner so your best bet is to apply pressure through the opponent's core as soon as possible. This team could probably be updated to have a spinner or replace Dialga and such, but this is what the classic set-up was.
some of the speed creep and set EV's were changed around, just use your common sense for that
the viability rankings look pretty good, honestly it's a bit pedantic to debate over stuff like Arceus-Grass being A- or B+. However Manaphy should unironically be higher than C- IMO
This team is fun and pretty good, I have used it a bit myself. However, it is seriously Arceus-Ghost weak and that's just a fact.BW
Deoxys-Attack @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 76 Atk / 252 SpA / 180 Spe
Naive Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Superpower
- Extreme Speed
- Spikes
Dialga @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Thunder
- Trick Room
Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 212 Atk / 252 Def / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Tail
- Shadow Sneak
- Magic Coat
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Palkia @ Lustrous Orb
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Spacial Rend
- Hydro Pump
- Fire Blast
- Trick Room
Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- U-turn
- Iron Head
- Bug Buzz
- Sleep Talk
Groudon @ Lum Berry
Ability: Drought
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- Swords Dance
- Deoxys works well against most leads, the exception being Custap Forretress and Froslass, if you see those potential leads lead with Giratina, Magic Coat + Hidden Power Fire works really well in those scenarios.
- Genesect is mostly a Dark Void and Draco Meteor depot, while it still can flinch Arceus-Ghost and whatnot its primary job is to 100% check Darkrai and die from Latios' Draco Meteor so Dialga can set up Trick Room.
- If you are worried about stall, fear not, Stealth Rock SD Groudon under Trick Room should catch most people by surprise, a +2 Groudon with some assistance from Thunder Dialga should be able to demolish stall teams, Chansey-less stalls just get eaten alive by Palkia.
- Lastly, on how to deal with Arceus-Ghost: Arceus-Ghost barely has any chance to set up CM, however, if the unfavorable happens, try to set up TR with Dialga in the turn they Focus Blast fearing Roar, then, Fire Blast if under Sun or Draco Meteor as they take you out with the second Focus Blast or Judgment, after Dialga is dies go to Groudon posthaste and SD (it lives a +1 Judgment even from 252 Sp.Atk with the current EV spread), that should force out the Arceus and you might even get a countersweep from it.
252+ SpA Lustrous Orb Palkia Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Groudon in Sun: 312-368 (77.2 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Palkia Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Groudon in Sun: 262-309 (64.8 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Lustrous Orb Palkia Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Ghost in Rain: 367-433 (82.6 - 97.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
252+ SpA Palkia Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn in Rain: 204-244 (57.9 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Lustrous Orb Palkia Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Lugia in Rain: 297-351 (71.3 - 84.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Lustrous Orb Palkia Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Ho-Oh in Sun: 198-234 (56 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Palkia: 322-379 (83.8 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Dialga Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Groudon in Sun: 341-402 (84.4 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
252+ SpA Life Orb Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 398-468 (98.5 - 115.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Ghost: 309-367 (69.5 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Dialga Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Ghost in Sun: 265-313 (59.6 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Dialga Thunder vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Lugia: 286-338 (68.7 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Dialga Thunder vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Kyogre: 237-281 (58.8 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0- SpA Giratina-Origin Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn in Sun: 212-252 (60.2 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0- SpA Giratina-Origin Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Forretress in Sun: 316-372 (89.2 - 105%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
This is my favorite team in all of my time playing BW2 Ubers, I made it 2 years ago and I've been using it ever since. As I don't play very often anymore I decided it was time to finally share it. It's a really good team and I hope you have fun using it.
Hp ground is fine on that magnezone, i had hp fire on it for better counterplay vs forretress sun teams wich benbes opponent really liked using.Ok, I'm not sure if Tauros is entirely outclassed, though. Being able to at the very least speed tie Latios in any scenario seems like a huge advantage tbh. And I wouldn't count out Intimidate in every situation. Sure, Tauros hates the most common physical attackers in the tier (Groudon, Deoxys-A), but it doesn't exactly fare poorly vs most others. Having access to EQ is very notable, as evident by these calcs:
252 Atk Choice Band Tauros Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 219-258 (60.1 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Dodrio Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 163-192 (44.7 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Tauros Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Registeel: 193-228 (53 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Dodrio Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Registeel: 144-170 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Tauros Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 273-322 (67.5 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Dodrio Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 205-242 (50.7 - 59.9%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
As you can see, Tauros does always 2hko common defensive steels. While Dodrio has access to the more spammable Drill Peck, HP Ghost from Tauros still gets by Gengar fine. I have almost no experience with these two mons and I can't say I would recommend them for much serious stuff but on paper, Tauros seems marginally better to me.
I find a few of the DPP teams interesting, in particular the first team, so I will add that unless people object. My only qualm with it are some sets (Magnezone with HP Fire irks me, as the team would appreciate HP Ground to hurt Dialga a lot more). I would also love to see OTR Zong with Mag but I guess that's for another team. As for the ADV teams, I find it every non (CM) Blissey team needs 2 Lati answers in this tier. In particular both teams are extremely weak to boltbeam Latis.
These are interesting teams, and it is always nice to see people providing a picture of earlier times. I always found the Grassceus/Rachi team seriously weak to sun, however. Even if Dialga gets up SR, Ho-oh can easily Roost on Arceus-Grass, Jirachi and Dialga itself. It is a strong option against most rain offensive in the tier, though, as Rachi/Grassceus/Giratina-O tend to shut down every non-Rayquaza rain offense. I'm not sure if I should add this, it would be nice with more discussion to gain more perspectives but yeah that's how I see it.
This team is fun and pretty good, I have used it a bit myself. However, it is seriously Arceus-Ghost weak and that's just a fact.
You say Arceus has few chances to CM vs this team but I find this to not be the case for the most part. In a 1v1 situation, it will CM on Palkia (in sun) and Dialga and proceed to recover stall TR turns. It can also nab a CM on Groudon, should Groudon be in range for +1 Judgment. It CMs on a Genesect that is locked into something (rare case but can happen). It does even CM, albeit with difficult, on your lead. As Arceus-Ghost will come out relatively healthy after beating these mons, your only option after this is to flinch it to death with Genesect.
I'm not sure if I wanna add it to the OP, as while I'm sure it can be successful in the hands of good player (and in a game scenario factors such as spikes and momentum might remedy its weakness), it seems be problematic for new players to use this.
Regarding DPP viability
I have to take some time to go through the viability noms once again. So far I can say that I agree with Iris regarding Snorlax and Weavile. It seems the DPP ranks are filled with a bunch of more niche options, but these are generally fully usable as compared to the more gimicky options that were ranked in BW2 for example. However, this presents a problem in ranking things accurately, so I will have to think more on this. Also, I appreciate more discussion on DPP in general.
that adv team is most standard rain lineup ever created and was around when you didn't even know what smogon was, i had team like this one with something over snorlax bunch of years ago before i even made this smogon acc but when i gave this team to benbe for upl he showed it to zf and zf suggested to put lax on it wich benbe and myself liked.ms and I talked and as far as the adv teams that foggi posted the first one is minority suspect's team and he has several versions like latios/ogre/omastar/regice/steelix/petaya deoa and that's his favorite version. Having a thunder immunity and another normal/flying resist other than omastar is very helpful and I think overall it's just better. The second team also seems wicked sketch. Like teambuilding process seemed like have lead slaking + add 4 s rank mons + add steel type. It's extremely weak to boltbeam lati's and even if you can revenge kill with slaking something has to drop most of the time for slaking to come in. Probably easiest fix is changing slaking to lax but even then the team just doesn't seem like it works well.
You're not particularly wrong. I think back in the day I would mostly play against opposing rain teams, or teams that simply couldn't handle the Specs Ogre or Grassceus surprise, which is why I found it pretty good. I'm not particularly that acquainted with the BW2 Meta anymore, however I think the core is still fairly effective, it just needs some fine tuning. What I've personally taken a liking to is Stone Edge on Grassceus so you have a way better time against Ho-Oh and a different item like Splash Plate or Expert Belt on Kabutops so he's not pressured so hard by passive damage.Hack said:These are interesting teams, and it is always nice to see people providing a picture of earlier times. I always found the Grassceus/Rachi team seriously weak to sun, however. Even if Dialga gets up SR, Ho-oh can easily Roost on Arceus-Grass, Jirachi and Dialga itself. It is a strong option against most rain offensive in the tier, though, as Rachi/Grassceus/Giratina-O tend to shut down every non-Rayquaza rain offense. I'm not sure if I should add this, it would be nice with more discussion to gain more perspectives but yeah that's how I see it.
Here are some mons that I don't see on the Viability Rankings at all, that may start some discussion:Hack said:I have to take some time to go through the viability noms once again. So far I can say that I agree with Iris regarding Snorlax and Weavile. It seems the DPP ranks are filled with a bunch of more niche options, but these are generally fully usable as compared to the more gimicky options that were ranked in BW2 for example. However, this presents a problem in ranking things accurately, so I will have to think more on this. Also, I appreciate more discussion on DPP in general
Gen 4 might have been infantile back then but some of those players who made those analyses were legit the best players back in the day. In hindsight and metagame shifts that may be actual metagame evolutions or may just be "in vogue" trends, somethings that were introduced are kind of bad now. To be fair, most of the players on Smogon these days do this stuff now anyway. I'm not going to name names but we all know who they are, and I'm certainly not going to suggest they are bad. However, what's to say in 10 years time when we're in gen 11 and we look back on the Su/Mo metagame and they won't be like "psssh why did they use something as dumb as (for argument's sake) Marshadow back in gen 7? What an antiquated metagame"? Even something like DPP OU, a metagame that was played at probably as high a level as gen 7 OU now has evolved to the point where a lot things that were good back then are mediocre now.Political power (explained better by Iris in the Registeel case) - "I, PokemonMaster12 with 12 billion ladder peaks and 36000 trophies to my name, claim that Solrock is a great Pokémon. Make an analysis to spread my excellence"
I don't think it is unfair, it just shows the crude nature of social systems and that we must be aware that it isn't always objective reasonings that shapes metagames. Essentially the rest of your posts agrees with what I am saying. . Old generations are more subject to this because of smaller playerbases. I merely pointed out that if you can find valid grounds for something that concerns a old tier you should never post because you aren't a "gen5 player" or whatever.I agree with most of what Hack said, but this bit is a bit unfair imo
Gen 4 might have been infantile back then but some of those players who made those analyses were legit the best players back in the day. In hindsight and metagame shifts that may be actual metagame evolutions or may just be "in vogue" trends, somethings that were introduced are kind of bad now. To be fair, most of the players on Smogon these days do this stuff now anyway. I'm not going to name names but we all know who they are, and I'm certainly not going to suggest they are bad. However, what's to say in 10 years time when we're in gen 11 and we look back on the Su/Mo metagame and they won't be like "psssh why did they use something as dumb as (for argument's sake) Marshadow back in gen 7? What an antiquated metagame"? Even something like DPP OU, a metagame that was played at probably as high a level as gen 7 OU now has evolved to the point where a lot things that were good back then are mediocre now.
I think Wynaut is Ubers in name so it has to be ranked then. I've heard myths in the past of Wobb+Wynaut teams but let's not kid ourselves here... It should probably be in E-rank. I will add in the mechanics you spoke of, thanks a lot.I would probably drop Wynaut to E (or unrank). It doesn't have that great of an advantage considering Wobbuffet performs its role almost infinitely better (the only perk is lowered durability for Custap). I think I would use the other mons in D more seriously before Wynaut. Also good that Parasect and Primeape were finally dropped - truth be told both were rather memeish and even I would have opposed to them being ranked.
And yeah definitely dont take older gen analyses to heart. You have to bear in mind older gen metagames are very different and didnt have the same resources as we do today (ever decipher a warstory? Shit is ass.) and a lot of mons are mentioned that don't even exist in Ubers VR (fun fact - Spiritomb is mentioned in Wobbuffet's Uber analysis).
Speaking of Wynaut Hack you should note how in previous generations Shadow Tag affected Ghost-types (to be fair Arena Trap also affected Giratina-A and Ghostceus). You could probably just mention in previous generations (Gen 5 on down) that Ghost-types were affected by trapping effects such as Shadow Tag to make it simple, though I am aware Giratina-O and Ghostceus are immune to Counter. I would also note for Gen 3 that Shadow Tag still traps other Pokemon with Shadow Tag (the big reason why Wobbuffet vs Wobbuffet matches resulted in a draw outside of Recoil + Lefties).
I would also note Wish changes too from previous gens (5 on down restored 50% of receiver's health isntead of 50% of user's health).