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Battle Tree Discussion and Records

Pencilcheck said:
People recommending this team and trying it out.

And damn, I can't even get through the first couple battles when trying this team initially, i'm getting better now and prob getting better luck, but this is still not as smooth as other teams. Perhaps I'm just too stupid to understand how to play with this team.

The original post does not go in details on how to counter some of the threats as leads, and missing some annoying threats, but if you meet steel pokemons (e.g. magnazone), dark and ice and water (e.g. sharpedo), fire and poison (e.g. multiple set of salazzles), psychic (e.g. alakazam), or whirlwind, roar pokemons (e.g. skarmony), or full fire pokemons, infiltrators, which is pretty much very common in battle tree now pre-10 since battle tree will lean towards countering your team, you will have trouble if you want to follow the strategy since parting shot will not be useful and will not make your salamence sub to take more than one shot still. Or perhaps I should not try to setup in front of their face even with parting shot in place and just run return all the way instead and see which one can kill first.

Other than that I think the team sounds cool in theory but it is hard to execute in practice in my opinion. Your silvally will still get almost always 1-2 shot away from dead (and can still get status as well) after setting up the thunder wave + parting shot dance, therefore switching back in is still very dangerous. Switching to salamence you can still get status as well.

This is not the complete list but just a quick runthrough of the team after fighting about 20 tries of battle tree.
1. Thunder wave is useful but the Parting shot trick and salamence setup is only useful in very limited teams (at least pre-10 battles), only use it if the pokemon is always not going to super effect your salamence or break sub in one shot even after parting shot (which means anything not dragon, ice, fire, psychic, poison, steel, status, setup moves, etc)
2. If you switch to aegislash, on the possibility of fire, dark pokemon teams etc, after doing the parting shot dance, you basically waste the setup if you kill it, and have to switch back to silvally if the next pokemon counters aegislash (fire, dark, etc), and you will die by doing that, especially most team will have pokemon that counters your team, then your team crumbles. Therefore I think it is best to not switch to aegislash unless you are 100% certain you can mostly tank through the whole team with aegislash.
3. If you switch to salamence, make sure you can setup to 4+ and hide behind a sub like the guide said, which in my opinion is pretty hard unless you get lucky, otherwise you will still get defeated if you meet pokemon that your flying type does not hit at least normal effective (e.g. staller sleep steel).
4. Using this team you have to make sure the first pokemon will not switch, since AI will still switch if it see fit, which after trying many times it will happen. That means parting shot is useless, and you have to switch back and restart which means you will never get to do it since your silvally is mostly one shot away from death.
5. This team reminds me of durant team, you need a lot of knowledge of tree to be able to use this team effectively. Need a lot of patience to get lucky, and still pretty hard though.
6. Hyposis focus sash gengar will be annoying, and if you get unlucky, you will die. Very likely the best way to beat it is to pray that you will wake up in time. Otherwise your team really has no real way to counter it.
7. Don't get this often, but if you get bulk up, curse staller team, you better switch to all out attack mode and don't try to setup since some staller team can easily kill your team if you are not careful (e.g. curse sleep hippowdon, etc)

Yea, if you random so you don't get that much threat pre-10, you will get an easier time with this team.
But if you want 200 wins, and you don't know much about the tree (e.g. playing since maison and for for months etc and trying at least 10+ teams), I don't recommend using this team at all.

Just want to share some opinion and feeling about trying out teams on the leaderboard. I hope this will help some people who are also doing the same.
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I'd just like to point out there's a list of every Pokémon set, might want to utilize it
 
Yea, of course I know that list. Just too lazy to have to look up every possible set of every pokemon for all battles. Sometimes pre-10 I just want to blaze through it.
 
NZtechfreak said:
Thanks for the thoughts guys, all have their appeal. I have a shiny Aegislash and a shiny Gale Wings Talonflame, so they stand out :)

Will look into Bisharp some more, never used it before so that's probably why I look at it and feel less convinced by it than other options.

None of the others besides Gard are fixed, so feel free to suggest other team comps, I feel like Mega-Blastoise offers a lot, but no doubt other things could be good/better. Considered Mega-Kang, brings Fake Out (and Fake Out that can hit ghosts), as well as appreciating Gardevoirs coverage for fighting mons, but doesn't offer the speed control Blastoise can bring in Icy Wind.
Click to expand...
The ideal scenario for Multis is to just have 2 very high damage threats (possibly but not necessarly spread move users... if you are using Mega Garde for your son and have access to breed it in gen 6, make sure to get it Hyper Voice as tutored move, as that's what distinguishes Mega Garde from other mediocre megas. (or if you don't but still want, most of us can provide you a gen 6 one with Hyper Voice :3 )

Seeing Mega Garde has issues breaking through most steel types, you could consider having a 2nd frontline that can do that.
Mega Salamence as mentioned is a great option, but also relies on being a generation 6 Spatk version with Hyper Voice to stand out in doubles.
I would mention M-Chari Y, but it has a terrible 4x weak to Rock that in battle tree is risky to carry, and Drought is a double edged sword which might backfire.
Mega Manectric, while not the greatest on its own, adds intimidate support and Flamethrower coverage, + a very strong Volt Switch.

Otherwise, you could just run a fast lead, like Sash Pheromosa, or Z-electrium Tapu Koko, and just Zmove the face of whatever enemy stands in Garde's way.
If Garde has Telepathy as ability, you can use Garchomp, and eventually wait to mega evo if you need to get off a Earthquake, or the very standard Z-groundium Garchomp used in VGC.
You could also be a man and run Scarfed Lele. Not only it gives another +50% damage to garde's psychic or psyshock, but also negates priority to cover for Garde's mediocre bulk. However this'd force you into running shadow ball coverage and still be hardwalled by opposer Bisharps and several other Dark+resist fairy types.

Just throwing there some ideas for you.

Overally anyway, pick possibly 4 fast high damage pokes, who can focus down one enemy trainer fast, with spread moves acces being a big plus, and focus down 1 trainer so the battle becomes 2v1.
 
Sometimes when I play Battle Tree I just want to blaze through the first 10 battles. That is why I have gotten so much experience with the tree, because less time per battle = faster runs! Oh, and also because I don't usually get past 50 XD. I know there are ways to do far better in the Tree but instead of taking the time to look up sets before I make moves in my battles I'll just go ahead and guess my way through, and then write extremely long posts about why other people's teams, written by people with way more experience than me (but don't forget I'm still a veteran with experience since the MAISON!!!). Oh also the Battle Tree cheats lol
 
Quick reminder that I made a spreadsheet (= https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ADM7GZ6-xAuZiRhaG7Xe1zdK3CD5Fi803O9Dn7T8hmc ) for my PheroLele-runs in which I documented almost 600 battles incl. Pokémon/Sets of the opponents and how the battle went for most battles (clean sweep = won with 4 Pokémon alive, sweep = easy win with 1-3 Pokémon alive). Feel free to analyze the spreadsheet so you can see that the Tree is in fact not counterteaming.

I also documented over 200 battles from my run with Lando-T/Toxa/Mence-M in another spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...MxsvsRH2h7xVvKEcoyaLXLbiN8/edit#gid=454490541
 
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Coeur7 said:
...


You seem to insist that people actually have to "random enough times" to achieve 10-win streaks with Aegi/Mence teams against 6IV opponents with bad sets. This just suggests that you're bad at playing this game, and going on about how other teams can't possibly break 10 "without luck", rather than demonstrating and using your own, doesn't help your case.

Incredulity about the team being well-designed enough to reach 450 consistently is wholly different. You also make a good point that using a slow crippling lead, yet no set-up move on Aegislash, loses synergy whenever you're forced to KO the target of Parting Shot with Aegi.


There is only one possible set for the first nine battles. This was the point of those who argued against switching teams. Including yourself.


...


I recommend thought either over prayer, or as prayer.

Hypnosis Gengar -- and I'm not sure why this damn thing is brought up so often, because if you can't handle fast sleep with your team, then you should just as well be afraid of, say, Crobat-4 -- should never pose a threat to that team. Switch between Aegi and Silvally to deplete Shadow Ball and Hypnosis (letting Aegi take the sleep T1) while taking exactly no damage. Of course, when you're trying to "blaze through" battles, you'll put yourself into unnecessary danger instead. For the record, with 6 IVs,

252 SpA Gengar Dream Eater vs. 212 HP / 52 SpD Silvally: 52-62 (26.3 - 31.4%)
252 SpA Salazzle Flamethrower vs. 212 HP / 52 SpD Silvally: 63-75 (31.9 - 38%)

You should be able to cripple those. That said, one of the apparent flaws of the Parting Shot + Thunder Wave combination is that whenever Silvally is faster, you might have to switch subless Mence into attacks with side effects like Flamethrower, which is the last thing you should want.

The computer only ever switches out when it can't hit you for damage with any of its moves, or would have to use Struggle. The most dangerous (i.e. least predictable / least controllable) switches occur via U-turn/Volt Switch/Baton Pass. Ambiguity can arise when the enemy can use Toxic, but you're immune to all its moves, in which case I've seen both a switch and Toxic happen (specifically, that's the behaviour of Thundurus-1 against Gastrodon).

You should probably upload battle videos. That would allow others to judge better whether you've misplayed, or discovered a genuine flaw in a team.
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I welcome constructive feedback, I have some teams that I worked on which I can blaze through 60+ with no problem, but some teams on the leaderboard just takes time.
For example, I just went through the tree with this team Gengar, Mega Salamence, Clefable and basically blaze through until battle 61, and here is the losing battle ID: GJEG-WWWW-WWW8-STTN.
Basically I predicted the wrong set of tauros and lost the game. Surprised that thrash one shot Mega salamence. Will note that in the future.


Back to the guide:
I purposefully start out with silvally as suggested, because if it is mega-salamence lead and aegislash as support, I have done a lot of other teams like that with no problem getting at least 30+ everytime. However, I was "following" the guide made in the original post, and try to stick to it, and turns out it doesn't perform as well as I thought it would. Not trying to be mean but I don't think you read my post did you?

I am suggesting that there are still some randomness to the initial teams that sometimes some more difficult teams that rely more on probability will appear less and thus the team will have an easier time to go through some battles.

And I never once said that other teams can't break 10 without luck, first I already mentioned, this is my first tries using the team, I'm just a newbie coming in and trying out the team and recommended strategy. Second, if the team sucks, I would've said so, but I didn't say that. If you read my post, you should see that I'm simply sharing my experience, and some of my thoughts about how I would solve the situation. I even mentioned that without extensive knowledge, newbie might not be recommended if the goal is to get to 200 for the berry.

And finally, the hypnosis XXX uber fast pokemon I classified as "annoying" threat, because I have gone through a lot of other teams against those types and there are a lot of workarounds and constant switching is one of them as you mentioned. I don't considered as "real" threat.

I brought up gengar simply because it is the pokemon that I met in the battle tree, if it is crobat I will say crobat, if it is gardevoir I will say gardevoir but the latter two usually comes less often and much latter in the tree.

Level 51 said:
Sometimes when I play Battle Tree I just want to blaze through the first 10 battles. That is why I have gotten so much experience with the tree, because less time per battle = faster runs! Oh, and also because I don't usually get past 50 XD. I know there are ways to do far better in the Tree but instead of taking the time to look up sets before I make moves in my battles I'll just go ahead and guess my way through, and then write extremely long posts about why other people's teams, written by people with way more experience than me (but don't forget I'm still a veteran with experience since the MAISON!!!). Oh also the Battle Tree cheats lol
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Oh god, please do share your experience, that sounds awesome to me. Show me your tricks.

I also written another team I lost in 63 a couple pages back, if you can also criticize it that would be awesome.

Maunzi said:
Quick reminder that I made a spreadsheet (= https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ADM7GZ6-xAuZiRhaG7Xe1zdK3CD5Fi803O9Dn7T8hmc ) for my PheroLele-runs in which I documented almost 600 battles incl. Pokémon/Sets of the opponents and how the battle went for most battles (clean sweep = won with 4 Pokémon alive, sweep = easy win with 1-3 Pokémon alive). Feel free to analyze the spreadsheet so you can see that the Tree is in fact not counterteaming.

I also documented over 200 battles from my run with Lando-T/Toxa/Mence-M in another spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...MxsvsRH2h7xVvKEcoyaLXLbiN8/edit#gid=454490541
Click to expand...
Wow, that is pure awesomeness!

MOD EDIT: Do not double post. Certainly don't triple post.
 
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Alright not to be rude, but there's an edit button so you don't triple post. Just thought I'd tell you, not trying to be aggressive or condescending in any way just genuinely wanted to let you know so you don't do it again
 
Coeur7 said:
Incredulity about the team being well-designed enough to reach 450 consistently is wholly different.
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Or being able to get over twice that amount while copy/pasting two sets from the team (which were built for setting up against opponents that have already been crippled by 99% accurate Thunder Wave) and using a 3rd team member not because it is optimal, but because it is arbitrarily unique.

You should be able to cripple those. That said, one of the apparent flaws of the Parting Shot + Thunder Wave combination is that whenever Silvally is faster, you might have to switch subless Mence into attacks with side effects like Flamethrower, which is the last thing you should want.
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I would think the team works to the extent that it does because Aegislash is largely disposable. If the opponent's already Thunder Waved, you can bring Aegislash in off a Parting Shot and have a good chance of PP stalling Flamethrower or whatever the annoying move you don't want to switch Salamence into happens to be. Beyond that, just letting Aegislash or Silvally faint so you can bring in Salamence for free and fully set up (at just -2 it's going to take a STAB super effective special attack to break the Sub in one hit) is pretty good as far as plan Bs go, and plan C of trying to sweep with a burned +6 Mega Mence behind a sub is going to work out a high percentage of the time too. Obviously there are worse moves than Flamethrower to have to switch Mence into, but the same general techniques would limit its exposure to them.
 
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Worldie said:
The ideal scenario for Multis is to just have 2 very high damage threats (possibly but not necessarly spread move users... if you are using Mega Garde for your son and have access to breed it in gen 6, make sure to get it Hyper Voice as tutored move, as that's what distinguishes Mega Garde from other mediocre megas. (or if you don't but still want, most of us can provide you a gen 6 one with Hyper Voice :3 )

Seeing Mega Garde has issues breaking through most steel types, you could consider having a 2nd frontline that can do that.
Mega Salamence as mentioned is a great option, but also relies on being a generation 6 Spatk version with Hyper Voice to stand out in doubles.
I would mention M-Chari Y, but it has a terrible 4x weak to Rock that in battle tree is risky to carry, and Drought is a double edged sword which might backfire.
Mega Manectric, while not the greatest on its own, adds intimidate support and Flamethrower coverage, + a very strong Volt Switch.

Otherwise, you could just run a fast lead, like Sash Pheromosa, or Z-electrium Tapu Koko, and just Zmove the face of whatever enemy stands in Garde's way.
If Garde has Telepathy as ability, you can use Garchomp, and eventually wait to mega evo if you need to get off a Earthquake, or the very standard Z-groundium Garchomp used in VGC.
You could also be a man and run Scarfed Lele. Not only it gives another +50% damage to garde's psychic or psyshock, but also negates priority to cover for Garde's mediocre bulk. However this'd force you into running shadow ball coverage and still be hardwalled by opposer Bisharps and several other Dark+resist fairy types.

Just throwing there some ideas for you.

Overally anyway, pick possibly 4 fast high damage pokes, who can focus down one enemy trainer fast, with spread moves acces being a big plus, and focus down 1 trainer so the battle becomes 2v1.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I bred Gard in AS for Hypervoice. Can breed Mence there too if needed/wanted.

Lele and Manectric are two I have considered. I won't go the Lele route because I don't want the stacked weaknesses, but Manectric definitely a possibility. I have a hypertrained HP Ice Manectric at the ready, so it's no trouble to add. Main reason I wasn't that keen on Manectric was due to having two frail mons in the front, but then at least 1 KO is virtually assured, so maybe I should make my peace with hyperoffense and have a go (and the Intimidate assists the bulk situation).

Will think some more, I have most stuff all set to go and a bit of time yet before he finishes Moon...

Thanks a lot for the input to all of you who have volunteered ideas.
 
Mainly the big deal of multis is that it's 2 trainers with 1 reserve each on both sides, meaning that 2 frail leads who can threaten 1hkos two turns in a row generally will simply push in a 2v1 situation which is near autowin.

You can also have a bulky backline for yourself which has access to Helping Hand, to help your son's garde and 2nd poke to break through the enemy as well.

Or a sort-of-suicidal FollowMe MegaLucario which can potentially just attract stuff on himself (resists dark, neutral to ghost, immune to poison which threaten M-garde) and at same time threatens lot of 1hkos myself with Adaptabiliy Close Combat / Iron Head on things that resist Garde's stabs.
 
Hi, I'm running into a few problems with Steel/Ice/Ghost types. I played a bit of Maison (100 streaks max) but I'm still a noob and new to the Tree.
I'm running SilverLining's team from this post with the only difference being my Salamence is Male and the Attack stats on P2 and Aegislash. http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/battle-tree-discussion-and-records.3587215/page-90#post-7447135

My problems are Return not hitting Ghosts, Toxic not hitting Steel/Poison types and Steel resistances to my limited moves, and getting spammed by Ice types early on.

Porygon2 is a monster and often sweeps. Aegislash is a great answer with Flash Cannon to Ice types of course and Shadow Ball on Ghosts but he's slow and seems to be fainted a lot? I'm not sure exactly how, I'll pay more attention and be back.

TLDR I'm not really feeling MSalamence, is there a replacement? I have a Lum Berry Dragonite from Gen 6 that I'm considering? Could I teach Fire Fang to MMence? The 95 Accuracy seems like it might end some streaks but it would help the Steel and Ice problems to an extent...

Obviously it's me and my play and not the team with SilverLining's streak(s) so maybe some advice would fix my problem as well. :)

I'll be paying more attention to exactly how I'm losing. Going to be playing a lot today. :)
 
I'd try a scarf krookodile lead with intimidate. Lowers the power of physical attackers, hits steel, poison, and ghost, and garde helps against its fighting weakness. Maybe groundium could work as well so you don't EQ your gardevoir
 
Zerox27 said:
Obviously it's me and my play and not the team with SilverLining's streak(s) so maybe some advice would fix my problem as well. :)
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Don't be so quick to assume it's not the team's problem. The Aegislash and MMence sets are the same as those from a team where they were optimized so that Aegislash and MMence would be able to function best after a lead used Thunder Wave, which isn't the case with P2 - they are likely not optimized for P2.

In general, that streak is, ehm... less than proven as far as some people in this thread are concerned. See here (the first paragraph somewhat restates what I have said above, which is where I based my words on) and here for words by GG Unit , an incredibly experienced & smart player, on the subject.
 
There's also the issue that P2 has several times proved to be a inconsistent addition to the team, specifically because of the mediocre power without good Downloads, and overally mediocre stats compared to other walls.

It's a great pokemon -for competitive scenario- but excessively inconsistent for Battle tree, for issues that you very well noticed.
 
First time posting here so hi everyone!
Alright, so I started doing some Battle Tree for these past few days since I was getting somewhat bored (and try to overcome my fear of Walrein) and I was testing a Scolipass team with Garchomp and MegaMence (don't ask me why) and suddenly, once I hit 35 battles, something really odd happened:

ALUW-WWWW-WWW8-TDKE

This is the battle video showcasing the anomally. Was Thrash always able to last for 5 turns? Or was Outrage the only one with 2-3 turns? Sorry if this might have been pointed out before, only now did I saw it.

On another note, why is Batton Pass so good, geez.
 
Gonna assume you used Protect, which resets the timer on those moves.

Zerox27 Return does indeed hit Ghost types when Salamence is mega evolved, but as for what that team is supposed to do against hard-hitting Toxic immunities in the lead position (Bisharp, Drapion, Magnezone) I'm not exactly sure myself.
 
Coeur7 said:
Hypnosis Gengar -- and I'm not sure why this damn thing is brought up so often, because if you can't handle fast sleep with your team, then you should just as well be afraid of, say, Crobat-4 -- should never pose a threat to that team. Switch between Aegi and Silvally to deplete Shadow Ball and Hypnosis (letting Aegi take the sleep T1) while taking exactly no damage.
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It's tradition. I've guesstimated that 7-8% of everyone who posts in a battle facility thread over its active lifetime simply cannot wrap their head around the switch-stalling concept. As a result, sets like Gengar1, who are utterly helpless against the tactic, become conundrums for them. Cradily3 would probably be another problem for these folks, if any of them consistently could get far enough in a facility to face it often.

I should thank those hapless folks for their troubles, though...encouraged me to create my own Gengar1.
 
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Made it to 58 with a jank team. Lost to kommo-o

Mimikyu
Item: Fairium Z
Ability: Disguise
Nature: Careful
EVs: 252 Atk/ 252 Spe / 4 Def

Moves:
Swords Dance
Shadow Claw
Shadow Sneak
Play Rough

Lucario
Item: Lucarionite
Ability: Inner Focus
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP

Moves:
Nasty Plot
Flash Cannon
Vacuum Wave
Aura Sphere

Tyranitar
Item: Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Def

Moves:
Dark Pulse
Rock Slide
Flamethrower
Thunderbolt

Comments:
Wasn't expecting this to do as well as it did. SD mimikyu easily sweeps teams by itself, tried and true. Lucario and T-tar are the backup plans for stuff mimikyu can't kill. I might rebreed T-Tar and try Naive. I like the fact that the AI expects physical sets from Lucario and T-tar and they're burn proof. I'm also not completely set on the movepool for T-Tar. I'm open to suggestions. I'm like 95% sure dark pulse and rock slide are correct, and flamethrower and thunderbolt have been super useful, but I'm open to suggestions.
 
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Got a streak of 51 with an interesting team.

Hawlucha (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Unburden
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 44 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 100 SpD / 108 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Low Kick
- Entrainment
- Helping Hand
- Endeavor

This Hawlucha was planned as a support, give regigigas Unburden to lose slow start and hit as hard as possible. I don't know what I was thinking with this ev spread to be honest.

Notable Speed Benchmarks:
Outspeeds Regigigas by one.
Outspeeds scarf Aerodactyl (W/Unburden)


Regigigas @ Normal Gem
Ability: Slow Start
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 244 Spe (Bottle Capped)
Adamant Nature
- Crush Grip
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Knock Off

The star of the team. Crush Grip with Normal Gem knocks out soo many Pokemon in battle tree. The spread isn't 100% optimal. The plan was outspeed scarf Aerodactyl so I went for minimum (probably explains weird ev spread for Hawlucha)

Tapu Lele @ Psychium Z
Ability: Psychic Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 20 Def / 228 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Shadow Ball
- Psychic

This Tapu Lele I used for VGC 2017, nothing really special. I sadly don't remember the ev spread explanation. It's a Z-move user that just destroys opponents

Heatmor (F) @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Gluttony
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 12 Atk / 124 Def / 12 SpA / 100 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature
- Fire Lash
- Incinerate
- Recycle
- Stockpile

I wanted to try Heatmor and it's signature Move, it worked wonders as a tank. Incinerate was to burn berries,but I never used it for that, Knock Off would probably be a better option for that move slot.
To be honest, with the ev spread, I tossed numbers together and called it good. I just wanted to try Heatmor.


Comments: This team was fun. It started as a random thought with Regigigas and I finally got the passionate pose (which I was aiming for)

5AVW-WWWW-WWW8-THL8
Against Blue
 
PikaCuber said:
Reporting a streak of 96 wins in Super Singles.

Team:
charizard-mega-x.png
milotic.png
ferrothorn.png


Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 188 Atk / 68 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 18 SpA
- Flare Blitz
- Dragon Claw
- Dragon Dance
- Roost

Non-Mega: 185/140/98/110/105/129
Mega: 185/191/131/129/105129

The main sweeper of this team and the lead. Getting up a Dragon Dance or two can sometimes just win games by itself. Flare Blitz and Dragon Claw are obvious STAB choices. Fire Punch is an option, but having the extra damage makes it so that less boosts are needed to get a KO, even if it means taking recoil. Plus, Flare Blitz can also help ignore any potential freezes that can happen on a switch-in. Roost is so that there is a reliable recovery, especially while Mega. Using Roost is a little scarier when not Mega'd, as you lose out on getting extra resistances that can otherwise greatly reduce the damage taken.

The EV spread is relatively simple, with just max HP for bulk and enough Speed to get into the closest empty speed tier for Charizard. Everything else is then dumped into Attack for more damage. Adamant for more power, since outspeeding things isn't entirely necessary, and Dragon Dance fixes that problem. At +2 Speed, Charizard also speed ties with Manectric4, which is the Choice Scarf variant. 3 boosts are usually enough to sweep through entire teams by itself. Blaze is just so I don't have to worry about taking damage when the sun is up when not Mega'd, which is extremely important for opponents like Heatran3.

It is worth noting that it is sometimes worth not Mega evolving instantly. By not Mega Evolving Turn 1, key resistances like Fighting and Ground are still available, which makes switching in much safer for Charizard. The extra physical bulk gained from Mega Evolving is typically doesn't make a big difference, when compared to normal Charizard, as Charizard should just about never be switched into neutral hits anyways, as it is not the bulkiest thing. It only has enough bulk to set itself up, most of the time.

Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Def / 196 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 2 Atk
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Toxic
- Recover

202/59/107/120/187/101

The special wall of the team and often the switch-in for Ferrothorn. Scald is for STAB and burn chances, although I never really got any important ones on my run. Ice Beam is for coverage and random freezes that can make openings for Recover or potentially safe switch-ins for better matchups. Toxic lets me break down any walls much faster and have a way around evasion, as long as I hit it initially. Recover keeps Milotic healthy to take the many hits it needs to take in battle.

EV spread is made to maximize bulk while making Milotic be able to take both physical and special hits well, but with more focus on the special side. Max HP is for overall bulk, and the Special Defense EVs hit a point where 2 stat points are gained for 8 EVs. Everything else is dumped into Defense to take physical attacks better. While Milotic does speed tie with a few Pokemon with the lack of investment, it does outspeed the massive base 80 speed tier, so I accepted a few speed ties to keep Milotic very bulky. Plus, it takes 44 Speed EVs to get into an empty speed tier, which is way too many away from bulk. Leftovers for the passive recovery so I can spend more time attacking. Marvel Scale also improves Milotic's physical bulk when statused, which seemed way more common than getting a Competitive boost.

Milotic's main jobs are to switch into Fire type moves aimed at Ferrothorn and to break down and stall extremely bulky threats that are difficult to blow past with an unboosted Charizard.

Ferrothorn @ Zoom Lens
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 28 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 22 SpA / 0 Spe
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed
- Protect

181/114/198/70/140/22

The physical wall of the team and main switch-in for Charizard. Power Whip is for a really strong STAB move, and alongside Gyro Ball, Ferrothorn can hit many things for some decent damage. Leech Seed improves how long Ferrothorn can stay on the field, as well as helping out the rest of the team, mainly Milotic, with the extra passive recovery. Acts a lot like Milotic's Toxic, but slightly better, in some ways. Protect lets Ferrothorn have some extra recovery from Leech Seed and lets me scout out sets so I can make safer plays.

The EV spread is very similar to Milotic, with max HP and enough defense to gain 2 stat points for 8 EVs. Everything else is then dumped into Special Defense, for extra bulk that Ferrothorn can use. Zoom Lens is a really great item for Ferrothorn, especially with minimum speed. Only 3 Pokemon sets are potentially slower than Ferrothorn, making the accuracy boost almost a guarantee. It makes Power Whip and Leech Seed much safer, much more than it would normally be. Thanks to aussieman000 on the Maison thread that used this, as I probably wouldn't have known about this great item for Ferrothorn.

Ferrothorn makes matchups against Fairy and Water types much easier, as well as keeping Charizard safe from any Rock type moves by having the resistance and bulk to take moves aimed at Charizard.

Threats (As a Lead):

Most Dragon Types: I didn't run into very many issues with Dragon types in my run, but they resist the Fire/Grass/Water parts of my team can can take out Charizard. It's mostly the coverage moves that they can carry that can go through my team. I've gotten into situations where I stall out Draco Meteor enough so that they are at -6, so I can stay safe against the other moves. Ice Beam or a boosted Charizard can beat them though, if they are in the back.

Trick Room: Annoying, but mostly tolerable. Ferrothorn outspeeds all Trick Room users under Trick Room, and many of them are damaged heavily by STAB moves or stalled out by Leech Seed.

Gardevoir3 (Mega Gardevoir): Surprisingly annoying. Does over 50% to my whole entire team and outspeeds it. At the moment, if it is a lead, Charizard doesn't Mega Evolve (although doing so or not doesn't really change anything, on second look) and uses Dragon Dance, then Megas and OHKOs Gardevoir with Flare Blitz. Otherwise, if Charizard isn't already boosted, I try to get myself in a situation where Ferrothorn switches into a Hyper Beam, giving me the opening to OHKO it back with Gyro Ball, or Toxic stalling and spamming Recover.

(Physical) Fighting Types: So many of them carry Rock Slide, threatening Charizard, and their Fighting STABs can punch through the rest of my team, with weaknesses or lesser physical bulk. The play around them really depends on what Pokemon and set it is, and how well Ferrothorn or Milotic can take a Fighting type move (potentially 2 for Milotic).

Toxicroak (Mainly Set 3): I ran into quite a few of these in my run, and I never liked facing them. Setup isn't very safe against them due to the chance to Poison, and Milotic suffers from the same fate. Focus Blast from Set 3 hurts Ferrothorn badly, so Leech Seed can't be used to break Sash. Toxic is also useless, and Dry Skin means I can't Scald for a Burn. Toxicroak3's Dark Pulse means flinches, and Shadow Ball means Special Defense drops, all potentially lethal. Taunt from Set 4 is annoying, but not the worse as the status moves I have aren't too useful against Toxicroak.

Breloom (Mainly Set 3): The status moves I carry can't safely touch Breloom. Poison Heal is annoying to potentially play against, making Toxic unsafe, as well as being immune to Leech Seed naturally. Spore is always annoying to play against, as Ferrothorn can only stay in for the turn it uses Spore before getting hurt by something. Set 3 also carries a super effective move for each member of my team, so I can't set up on it due to Rock Slide. Focus Punch is really bad against Ferrothorn, but Ferrothorn can't do anything but attack Breloom, so it lessens it's effectiveness. Ferrothorn has to fear the switch in however, and can't switch out once in so nothing has to take a Focus Punch. Sash just makes it all worse, as Charizard can't just blow past it if it isn't a lead and probably gets put to Sleep.

Tentacruel: Cannot be safely, 100% stalled against. Liquid Ooze means Leech Seed isn't safe, it's naturally immune to Toxic, and Burn does nothing against Sets 1 and 4. Sash on Set 3 is pretty bad, as I can't break it safely without risking Poison, Freeze, or just lots of damage. Potentially one of the worst leads I can start off against.

Heatran (Mainly Set 3): The other sets aren't so bad, as they are relatively predictable and Milotic can beat most of them. However, Set 3 scares off Milotic, and Earth Power means Charizard can't Mega Evolve, just so the rest of the team doesn't have to take an Earth Power. The game plan I've figured out against it is to PP stall Fire Blast with switches between Ferrothorn and Charizard, then set up Charizard to where it can take out Heatran with a Dragon Claw after Mega Evolving, all before Solar Beam runs out of PP so it can't Earth Power on a Roost.

Terrakion: Terrakion can easily rip through my team if it is not Set 2. Milotic typically can't take two attacks from it, and Ferrothorn and Charizard can't take it's STAB moves. Set 3 can punish my switching with Swords Dance, and is probably my worst matchup. Thankfully I never faced that specific Terrakion in my run.

Team Problems:

The team is a little bit weak in power if I can't get Charizard boosted. However, besides a few changes in EVs on the team, mainly Milotic for the time being, I can't see any problems or bad matchups with the team that I haven't already listed.

Battles:

Battle 60: UQ5W-WWWW-WWW7-Q5TP
Pokemon Trainer Guzma (Toxicroak3 / Honchkrow[3,4] / Golisipod3)

I played with way too much fear for Toxicroak3, which it ended up being. The Turn 1 Poison really hurt, as I couldn't safely stall away to be at a decent health. I also forgot that Mega Evolving meant that Focus Blast starts doing more damage, so the Ferrothorn switch was a terrible option. I eventually stalled out the Focus Blasts with Milotic, barely. Dark Pulse flinching was scary, as well as the Special Defense drop, but thankfully I had enough room to take another hit and Recover, then alternate between Recover and Ice Beam.

Golisipod comes in though, and without Ferrothorn, it gets pretty scary. Thankfully, it can't do more than 50% to Milotic besides with First Impression, so I could stall it out with Toxic until Emergency Exit activated. Quick Claw was scary, but it never came up at a time when I was in immediate danger. I ended up sacrificing Ferrothorn to I think reset the Special Defense drop on Milotic, but it also gave me a free switch into Charizard, so Honchkrow wasn't an issue. Game ends with me just stalling out Golisipod further for the win. Really, just bad plays and not remembering about the loss of a Fighting resistance on Charizard.
Battle 69: HRPG-WWWW-WWW7-Q5UA
Cook Larry (Gourgeist4 / Clawitzer3 / Gyarados3)

Rock Slide is scary, and I don't know why I didn't consider Seed Bomb coming into Milotic. Nor do I remember why I switched out Ferrothorn on the second Phantom Force, maybe due to the lack of recovery. Thankfully, it takes itself down enough from Life Orb recoil so I can finish it off with Charizard. However, I'm forced to switch again to scout out Clawitzer, which is thankfully the physical variant. Leech Seed and Protect gets me through Clawitzer. Gyarados confused me. I try to catch the potential Earthquake with Charizard, but it uses Dragon Dance instead, so I have to double back into Ferothorn to take the Waterfall. I'm not too sure about the Dragon Dance at the moment, but it may be something similar to Battle 75.
Battle 75: FCPW-WWWW-WWW7-Q5UP
Punk Guy Etta (Staraptor3 / Arcanine4 / Gyarados4)

Staraptor could potentially nuke Charizard, so Ferrothorn comes in to sponge a hit and fire back a Gyro Ball after some Leech Seed recovery. Arcanine comes in, so the obvious switch of Milotic comes in after I figure out it is Set 4 with Protect. Arcanine burns Milotc on the switch in, which is a blessing in disguise, as I take much less damage from the pummeling of Fighting moves, letting me survive and Recover back my health before taking out Arcanine.

I don't know how much research or whatever has gone into Dragon Dance users, but the previous recorded battle and this one makes me want to say that Dragon Dance users, at least Gyarados, only goes for enough boosts to OHKO the opposing Pokemon from the health it is at. It went for only one boost against Milotic, which was exactly enough to take out Milotic with a Crunch. Then, Ferrothorn was just out of range of an OHKO from just over half health, causing it to boost again. However, Leech Seed kept Ferrothorn just outside of a OHKO with Crunch, which gave me the opening to KO back with a Power Whip. Whether this is new information or not, I hope it becomes useful.
Battle 78: 5HCG-WWWW-WWW7-Q5V5
Cook Larry (Shiinotic4 / Breloom4 / Ribombee[3,4])

Spore is annoying to play against. That's really all this battle was, trying to not get put to sleep and hope that it wasn't a Weakness Policy, which it was. Moonlight got annoying, so I switch out to Charizard on a potential Moonlight turn and I boost up without Mega Evolving to maintain a resistance to Moonblast. Breloom is scary, but it couldn't knock out Charizard with a potential Rock Slide and I outsped it, so Spore wasn't as big of a threat. It ends up being Set 4, so it gets OHKO'd and so does Ribombee in the back.
Battle 85: 3QWW-WWWW-WWW7-Q5VH
Golfer Patrick (Volcarona[3,4] / Comfey[3,4] / Tentacruel[3,4])

I've heard of things about Volcarona continuously trying to boost up to max, and it seemed to be true, at least for me. I continue going for boosts alongside it in order to OHKO it with a Dragon Claw (even though I could do so earlier with a Flare Blitz, my damage calculator was doing some glitchy things), then sweep from there. I naturally outsped Volcarona, so I was never at threat from it unless it decided to attack me and OHKO me on a turn I boosted.
Battle 94: WXDW-WWWW-WWW7-Q5VP
Preschooler Naya (Heatran3 / Landorus[3,4] / Garchomp[3,4])

This battle was not fun at all. I did exactly what I mentioned in my threats section, PP stall Fire Blast so I could boost Charizard enough to OHKO Heatran, then sweep. I did not enjoy this battle, as I had come up with that on the fly and I didn't even count Solar Beam PP, so an Earth Power was a sudden scary thought (even though I would outspeed).

What kind of parents are these people, leaving a little kid with such scary things?
Battle 95: 3RUW-WWWW-WWW7-Q6W6
Lass Inez (Terrakion1 / Thundurus2 / Uxie2)

Basically the previous battle, but worse. Roost is impossible because I'd die to a Close Combat, and Milotic can't come in because it gets 2HKO'd by everything it has. I end up PP stalling Close Combat so Ferrothorn can safely take it out. Thundurus is annoying with Focus Blast, but I just stall him out with Recovers. I get a lucky Freeze in to keep my health high and take out Thunudrus at no risk. Uxie then comes in, but I still have Charizard in the back, so I just try to whittle down Uxie enough with Milotic so Charizard can take it out on the free switch in later, if absolutely necessary.
Battle 97: CYDG-WWWW-WWW7-Q6WN (Loss)
Veteran Priya (Regigigas2 / Suicune[1,2] / Cobalion2)

I played pretty badly and misinformed myself. Hax also played a decent role in this as well. Thunder is fine up until I get paralyzed, so I decided to switch into Milotic to take the potential Thunder, but it uses Confuse Ray then Toxic rather than trying to do some massive damage. Thankfully, I get my own Toxic onto it, so Ferrothorn can come in, take the Thunder, and stall it out, as well as not deal with trying to attack through Confusion. Through Confusion, I get the Protect off to scout out the set, but Sacred Sword does way too much. Milotic can't effectively stall due to Toxic, and Charizard is 2HKO'd by Sacred Sword and can't outspeed it. I end up sacrificing Charizard to reset the Toxic timer, and I decide to try and freezeit to come back and win, but to no avail.

Without the Paralysis, I would have went straight for another another attack onto Regigigas, probably taking it out. Suicune would have probably come in, and Milotic can stall it out with Leech Seed, Toxic, and Recover, regardless of the set, which I had done several other times in the run. At that point, all I would need is to do is get enough damage onto Cobalion to where Flare Blitz can KO, which wouldn't be a lot, and have a free switch into Charizard.

Even with everything happening so far, I theorized a way to win after the battle, if I had Burned Cobalion instead. I would have needed a Double Protect in order to get into a range where Sacred Sword didn't take out Ferrothorn, but then I would just need another Double or even Triple Protect to repeat that. Then deal with Suicune and try to survive it's attacks with the little HP I have, get a Leech Seed off, and repeat.

Final Notes:

I like the team, but I don't think I'll be playing it too much as I prefer Doubles and Multis (the latter just slightly) over Singles. Tapu Fini or Suicune are options over Milotic as a bulky Water type, as the former helps against Fighting types and the latter has better overall bulk. However, Tapu Fini's Misty Terrain works both for and against Charizard, weakening Dragon Claw but stopping status, and neither of them have a reliable recovery. Milotic, while missing out on the status blocking, can take advantage of status effects, Toxic stall, and have a good recovery.

EV spreads will almost definitely be readjusted before another run, maybe to a more physically bulky Milotic to deal with Terrakion slightly better. Charizard could also get more bulk, but I'm not as sure if I want to sacrifice the power it has, as the team lacks it otherwise.
Click to expand...

I used a slight different improvised tanks, namly haze toxapex and special crumbler aegislash.

I faced captain kiawe on my 10th battle (I forgot) and got destroyed by brave bird talonflame because after a DD it is still slower and it got one SD and then one shot charizard X, and 2KHO my toxapex (I thought doing haze might work but looking back maybe I should just scald).

Sad but true. I guess maybe I should've attack talonflame immediately and not setup in the first place with flare blitz or dragon claw, perhaps that will at least both die and let the other team revenge kill my team afterwards.
 
Naanua said:
Got a streak of 51 with an interesting team.

Hawlucha (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Unburden
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 44 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 100 SpD / 108 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Low Kick
- Entrainment
- Helping Hand
- Endeavor

This Hawlucha was planned as a support, give regigigas Unburden to lose slow start and hit as hard as possible. I don't know what I was thinking with this ev spread to be honest.

Notable Speed Benchmarks:
Outspeeds Regigigas by one.
Outspeeds scarf Aerodactyl (W/Unburden)


Regigigas @ Normal Gem
Ability: Slow Start
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 244 Spe (Bottle Capped)
Adamant Nature
- Crush Grip
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Knock Off

The star of the team. Crush Grip with Normal Gem knocks out soo many Pokemon in battle tree. The spread isn't 100% optimal. The plan was outspeed scarf Aerodactyl so I went for minimum (probably explains weird ev spread for Hawlucha)

Tapu Lele @ Psychium Z
Ability: Psychic Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 20 Def / 228 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Shadow Ball
- Psychic

This Tapu Lele I used for VGC 2017, nothing really special. I sadly don't remember the ev spread explanation. It's a Z-move user that just destroys opponents

Heatmor (F) @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Gluttony
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 12 Atk / 124 Def / 12 SpA / 100 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature
- Fire Lash
- Incinerate
- Recycle
- Stockpile

I wanted to try Heatmor and it's signature Move, it worked wonders as a tank. Incinerate was to burn berries,but I never used it for that, Knock Off would probably be a better option for that move slot.
To be honest, with the ev spread, I tossed numbers together and called it good. I just wanted to try Heatmor.


Comments: This team was fun. It started as a random thought with Regigigas and I finally got the passionate pose (which I was aiming for)

5AVW-WWWW-WWW8-THL8
Against Blue
Click to expand...
Regigigas and Heatmor on the same team, plus lead Hawlucha. You are my kind of fella. Needless to say, I freaking love your team. Trying things is the first step to becoming a shitmon devotee, which earns quite a lot of respect around here.

(well, in my eyes it does hehe)
 
Honestly, don't use my team. It's an extremely lucky 1000-streak team, which has been noted many times, and I only posted it here because it somehow did reach 1000. Its lack of answers to certain threats, particularly Dragon Dance and Sheer Cold users, makes it even more questionable. And I'm bad about recording videos of anything noteworthy (or anything not noteworthy just for the sake of example battles), so that also doesn't help. The streak that I have going right now (which I haven't really done much with since reaching 1000 because I have no desire to keep going and Anabel isn't going to show either) didn't see a lot of variety in terms of opponents either, adding to its description as extremely lucky. Sets aren't optimized for what I used them for, Porygon2 has a tendency to miss with Toxic, I sometimes sacrificed Porygon2 to get through Dragon Dance users, you get the idea. Don't use the team. It isn't worth your time if you're trying to achieve a long streak.
 
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