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- Thread starter The_Rider
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Eh, Sun Abuser Flygon in Ubers anyone?
Eh? I'd rather use Shiftry in the sun as far as Ubers goes. Much better coverage. Hehe...
Anyways, I did not see this in the analysis, and I wanted to see if its anyway useful.
Do The Fuckle Shuckle! (Or just do the Truffle Shuffle)...~
move 1: Knock Off / Secret Power / Body Slam
move 2: Rest
move 3: Sleep Talk
move 4: Toxic / Accupressure / Encore
ability: Sturdy
item: Leftovers
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP/252 Def/4SDef
Pitiful that Body Slam and Knock Off are illegal together, otherwise Shuckle could really annoy with this set. Now I know this looks a bit of the "novelty" set, but the best way to keep this alive is to run Sandstream on your team. Before we get too far into this, let me explain the legal movesets that are possible:
Knock Off & either Accupressure or Toxic are legal together. Same with Encore. In other words, any fourth move can be used with Knock Off.
Body Slam, sadly, only has Encore legal with it. Toxic is as well, but double-status probably shouldn't be advised heavily, as it will contradict with you. Still, something to try, right?
Now this moveset can work real well with Spikes and Stealth Rock in play, as this will probably force switches upon beyond belief. It can't really be any simpler: annoy as much as possible with whatever moves that you have chosen, and take a nap. But usually things would like to set up on you while you snuggle into your cozy shell and threaten a terrible sweep up your ass. This is simply solved actually. By the use of Sleep Talk, you can still annoy IN YOUR SLEEP! That's right folks, an annoying snoozer. Bet you didn't think of that, did you?
Encore and Knock Off can really play in mucking up good strategies, such as setting up in front of you or stealing their Leftovers while a Sandstorm brews. What's more is is that you can even identify some "versatile" sweepers such as Garchomp and Salamence. With Knock Off, you can at least take a peek at what set you're facing against, whether it's a Specs version, a Scarfed version, a Banded version, or some type of Life Orb (too bad it can't really tell the difference from the regular Swords Dance Garchomp and Chain Chomp). Encore can at least say goodbye to many sweeping strategies that take time to set up, such as Swords Dancers or even Substitutes.
Toxic can work as well if you lack the ability of Toxic Spikes on your team, and will at least ruin even the greatest of walls (except Blissey, except on a 2 on 1 match with Shuckle and a friend) of the game. It can even add more annoyance to the field. Heracross might like the Toxic boost though, so it's iffy to use.
Accupressure is a very interesting move, and even though you won't benefit much as far as boosting Attack, Speed, or Special Attack, the Defense boosts (or even moreso, the Evasion boosts) can really cause a shitload of an annoyance to a team. Of course, this is ruined by PHazers, but it's expected.
Encore is the only Body Slam-pairable duo, but it can still cause a general annoyance together. Paralyzing a foe following by Encoring the move is priceless. It allows a nice switch-in and maybe even a clean sweep.
There IS an alternative to Body Slam. It basically follows its equal, just a little more random: Secret Power. With it, as far as WiFi goes, you still get the 30% chance of Paralyzing a foe, so it's a viable option if you don't want to waste time with FR / LG move tutors (which... neither would I, except I need Body Slam on poor Dusknoir. ;_;...) The movesets are more open here as well, except once again, don't use both Toxic and Secret Power, as it is counterproductive. To me the best option is Knock Off and Secret Power, otherwise just use Body Slam. Moreso preference again.
Now this CAN work as a general starter, but you would have to be fully aware of what you're stepping into. First, there's the occasional Gyarados starter, who can Taunt away 3 of your moves, or Ninjask, which could set up his Baton Pass strategy... only the latter can be flawed by Encore. But nevertheless, it can stop the likes of Weavile starters, the possible Bronzong starters, and it can even force switches on early Stealth Rock leads. Then of course, there's the occasional Breloom starter, which might think "ooh, free sweep!" only to find that there would be a 66.6% chance of it's strategy flawed (whether you Knock Off the Toxic Orb or Encore Spore).
This is, of course, maybe a gimmicky set, but on paper it looked awesome to me.
[OTHER OPTIONS]
Not much really. There's the occasional Gastro Acid if it appeals to you, but it probably won't. If you really want to use it, use it in conjunction with Body Slam, as Limber Pokemon would hate to loose their ability. Otherwise, that's it to actually consider. There's Defense Curl + Rollout, but IIRC when you Sleep Talk, you just do 1 turn of Rollout... that's it.
Comments / Opinions / etc?
Anyways, I did not see this in the analysis, and I wanted to see if its anyway useful.
Do The Fuckle Shuckle! (Or just do the Truffle Shuffle)...~
move 1: Knock Off / Secret Power / Body Slam
move 2: Rest
move 3: Sleep Talk
move 4: Toxic / Accupressure / Encore
ability: Sturdy
item: Leftovers
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP/252 Def/4SDef
Pitiful that Body Slam and Knock Off are illegal together, otherwise Shuckle could really annoy with this set. Now I know this looks a bit of the "novelty" set, but the best way to keep this alive is to run Sandstream on your team. Before we get too far into this, let me explain the legal movesets that are possible:
Knock Off & either Accupressure or Toxic are legal together. Same with Encore. In other words, any fourth move can be used with Knock Off.
Body Slam, sadly, only has Encore legal with it. Toxic is as well, but double-status probably shouldn't be advised heavily, as it will contradict with you. Still, something to try, right?
Now this moveset can work real well with Spikes and Stealth Rock in play, as this will probably force switches upon beyond belief. It can't really be any simpler: annoy as much as possible with whatever moves that you have chosen, and take a nap. But usually things would like to set up on you while you snuggle into your cozy shell and threaten a terrible sweep up your ass. This is simply solved actually. By the use of Sleep Talk, you can still annoy IN YOUR SLEEP! That's right folks, an annoying snoozer. Bet you didn't think of that, did you?
Encore and Knock Off can really play in mucking up good strategies, such as setting up in front of you or stealing their Leftovers while a Sandstorm brews. What's more is is that you can even identify some "versatile" sweepers such as Garchomp and Salamence. With Knock Off, you can at least take a peek at what set you're facing against, whether it's a Specs version, a Scarfed version, a Banded version, or some type of Life Orb (too bad it can't really tell the difference from the regular Swords Dance Garchomp and Chain Chomp). Encore can at least say goodbye to many sweeping strategies that take time to set up, such as Swords Dancers or even Substitutes.
Toxic can work as well if you lack the ability of Toxic Spikes on your team, and will at least ruin even the greatest of walls (except Blissey, except on a 2 on 1 match with Shuckle and a friend) of the game. It can even add more annoyance to the field. Heracross might like the Toxic boost though, so it's iffy to use.
Accupressure is a very interesting move, and even though you won't benefit much as far as boosting Attack, Speed, or Special Attack, the Defense boosts (or even moreso, the Evasion boosts) can really cause a shitload of an annoyance to a team. Of course, this is ruined by PHazers, but it's expected.
Encore is the only Body Slam-pairable duo, but it can still cause a general annoyance together. Paralyzing a foe following by Encoring the move is priceless. It allows a nice switch-in and maybe even a clean sweep.
There IS an alternative to Body Slam. It basically follows its equal, just a little more random: Secret Power. With it, as far as WiFi goes, you still get the 30% chance of Paralyzing a foe, so it's a viable option if you don't want to waste time with FR / LG move tutors (which... neither would I, except I need Body Slam on poor Dusknoir. ;_;...) The movesets are more open here as well, except once again, don't use both Toxic and Secret Power, as it is counterproductive. To me the best option is Knock Off and Secret Power, otherwise just use Body Slam. Moreso preference again.
Now this CAN work as a general starter, but you would have to be fully aware of what you're stepping into. First, there's the occasional Gyarados starter, who can Taunt away 3 of your moves, or Ninjask, which could set up his Baton Pass strategy... only the latter can be flawed by Encore. But nevertheless, it can stop the likes of Weavile starters, the possible Bronzong starters, and it can even force switches on early Stealth Rock leads. Then of course, there's the occasional Breloom starter, which might think "ooh, free sweep!" only to find that there would be a 66.6% chance of it's strategy flawed (whether you Knock Off the Toxic Orb or Encore Spore).
This is, of course, maybe a gimmicky set, but on paper it looked awesome to me.
[OTHER OPTIONS]
Not much really. There's the occasional Gastro Acid if it appeals to you, but it probably won't. If you really want to use it, use it in conjunction with Body Slam, as Limber Pokemon would hate to loose their ability. Otherwise, that's it to actually consider. There's Defense Curl + Rollout, but IIRC when you Sleep Talk, you just do 1 turn of Rollout... that's it.
Comments / Opinions / etc?
On that Infernape set, Blaze Kick is more powerful than Fire Punch so... use it.
Also forgot that Immunity could be cancelled by Gastro Acid and could be followed by Toxic, but then that means you're really screwed by Taunt...
Hm, forgot about Secret Power. Can't it also Burn on PBR on some of the stages as well? If it does, then it could work as an option.
Also forgot that Immunity could be cancelled by Gastro Acid and could be followed by Toxic, but then that means you're really screwed by Taunt...
Secret Power can do a lot of random shit in different stages....You don't want to end up having a SP that ends up lowering the attack of a special attacking monster etc. Stick with BS =/
True, but would you really want Infernape's last hit point to be picked off just because Blaze Kick misses?
Golduck the Wall Breaker
Golduck
Lonely/Naughty
@Life Orb
-Hydropump
-Ice Beam
-Cross Chop
-Hypnosis/Shadow Claw
Don't know how creative this is, just thought I'd give this perspective on Golduck. Haven't tested this thing out though, but it's faster than ttar and has a good movepool with semi-usable offensive stats on both sides.
Calcs using +ATK nature (lonely/naughty) with 252 ATK EVs (no spATK)
Hydropump:
Skarmory (252/0): 71.56% - 84.13%
Forretress (252/0): 69.21% - 81.64%
Bronzong (252/0): 46.75% - 55.03% (not sure what spDEF EVs most run)
Hippowdon (252/0): 101.43% - 119.29%
Gliscor (252/0): 106.50% - 125.14%
Ice Beam:
Garchomp (6/0) 1hko
Salamence (6/0) 1hko
Gliscor (252/0) 1hko
(these are calcs for hitting on a switch in)
Cross Chop:
Tyranitar (252/0): 105.94% - 124.75%
Blissey (252/252 bold): 58.40% - 68.77%
Shadow Claw:
Dusknoir (252/252 Imp): 24.83% - 29.25%
Cresselia (252/252 bold): 17.79% - 20.95%
Seeing how dismal those calcs are, you might just go with hypnosis/filler. However, not all cress/dusk run 252/252, and shadow claw also hits stuff like gengar/starmie/azelf should they decide to switch in.
In conclusion, Fire/Fight/Dark-Ghost/Ice is the ideal 4 for smashing walls in, and Golduck is one of the few who has stats and movepool to try (though Hydropump/Surf ends up doing more than HP fire). Maybe it's worth a try. :P
Golduck
Lonely/Naughty
@Life Orb
-Hydropump
-Ice Beam
-Cross Chop
-Hypnosis/Shadow Claw
Don't know how creative this is, just thought I'd give this perspective on Golduck. Haven't tested this thing out though, but it's faster than ttar and has a good movepool with semi-usable offensive stats on both sides.
Calcs using +ATK nature (lonely/naughty) with 252 ATK EVs (no spATK)
Hydropump:
Skarmory (252/0): 71.56% - 84.13%
Forretress (252/0): 69.21% - 81.64%
Bronzong (252/0): 46.75% - 55.03% (not sure what spDEF EVs most run)
Hippowdon (252/0): 101.43% - 119.29%
Gliscor (252/0): 106.50% - 125.14%
Ice Beam:
Garchomp (6/0) 1hko
Salamence (6/0) 1hko
Gliscor (252/0) 1hko
(these are calcs for hitting on a switch in)
Cross Chop:
Tyranitar (252/0): 105.94% - 124.75%
Blissey (252/252 bold): 58.40% - 68.77%
Shadow Claw:
Dusknoir (252/252 Imp): 24.83% - 29.25%
Cresselia (252/252 bold): 17.79% - 20.95%
Seeing how dismal those calcs are, you might just go with hypnosis/filler. However, not all cress/dusk run 252/252, and shadow claw also hits stuff like gengar/starmie/azelf should they decide to switch in.
In conclusion, Fire/Fight/Dark-Ghost/Ice is the ideal 4 for smashing walls in, and Golduck is one of the few who has stats and movepool to try (though Hydropump/Surf ends up doing more than HP fire). Maybe it's worth a try. :P
Yeah, go Golduck!
Unfortunately, you're pretty much forced to use Shadow Claw or you'll be countered entirely by Starmie, which is never good considering the star's popularity. I remember when I was considering Golduck, and I looked through his movepool for some kind of attack that can harm opposing Water types. Unfortunately, he has none. :\
Shadow Claw hits for a steady 62.13% - 73.09% on Starmie, assuming + nature, 252 EV's and a Life Orb. Golduck's attack is just too low imo. You'd be better off pumping a lot more SpA EV's and using Focus Punch over Cross Chop. Hypnotise Blissey, then hammer it with Focus Punch at which point the opponent will switch, so Hydro Pump the switch hopefully leaving two Pokemon crippled. Starmie's a bitch. Something like...
Golduck
Mild Nature
Life Orb
94 Atk/228 SpA/188 Speed
- Hypnosis
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Focus Punch
EV's generate 223 Attack, 300 special attack and 263 speed. The plan is to cause some damage with Hydro Pump first...with those EV's and a Life Orb, Hydro Pump can OHKO all sorts of OUs like standard Skarmory, Gengar, Forretress and many more. Won't be long till Blissey is lured out...put her to sleep and hit her with a Focus Punch for about 80%. Could cause a lot of damage against the right team, but is helplessly walled by certain Pokemon.
Unfortunately, you're pretty much forced to use Shadow Claw or you'll be countered entirely by Starmie, which is never good considering the star's popularity. I remember when I was considering Golduck, and I looked through his movepool for some kind of attack that can harm opposing Water types. Unfortunately, he has none. :\
Shadow Claw hits for a steady 62.13% - 73.09% on Starmie, assuming + nature, 252 EV's and a Life Orb. Golduck's attack is just too low imo. You'd be better off pumping a lot more SpA EV's and using Focus Punch over Cross Chop. Hypnotise Blissey, then hammer it with Focus Punch at which point the opponent will switch, so Hydro Pump the switch hopefully leaving two Pokemon crippled. Starmie's a bitch. Something like...
Golduck
Mild Nature
Life Orb
94 Atk/228 SpA/188 Speed
- Hypnosis
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Focus Punch
EV's generate 223 Attack, 300 special attack and 263 speed. The plan is to cause some damage with Hydro Pump first...with those EV's and a Life Orb, Hydro Pump can OHKO all sorts of OUs like standard Skarmory, Gengar, Forretress and many more. Won't be long till Blissey is lured out...put her to sleep and hit her with a Focus Punch for about 80%. Could cause a lot of damage against the right team, but is helplessly walled by certain Pokemon.
Considering a weird set.
Noctowl@Choice Specs
Insomnia, Modest
EVs: 68 HP / 252 SpAtk / 188 Spd
~Air Slash
~Hidden Power Fire/Fighting
~Psychic/Shadow Ball
~Hypnosis/Night Shade
Just a regular Specs set, I know. Air Slash gets STAB. Hidden Power Fire/Fighting hits Steels, but Fighting hits Tyranitar, which walls you otherwise. Psychic to hit Poison types or Shadow Ball to hit Ghosts.
Hypnosis can be used as a suprise or Night Shade for consistent damage.
Meh, just a thought. xD
Noctowl@Choice Specs
Insomnia, Modest
EVs: 68 HP / 252 SpAtk / 188 Spd
~Air Slash
~Hidden Power Fire/Fighting
~Psychic/Shadow Ball
~Hypnosis/Night Shade
Just a regular Specs set, I know. Air Slash gets STAB. Hidden Power Fire/Fighting hits Steels, but Fighting hits Tyranitar, which walls you otherwise. Psychic to hit Poison types or Shadow Ball to hit Ghosts.
Hypnosis can be used as a suprise or Night Shade for consistent damage.
Meh, just a thought. xD
Noctowl isn't good for Specs.
Using ~70 base spatk/speed isn't powerful or fast enough to justify taking 25% with every SR switch-in.
Hypnosis Specs is likewise pretty terrible since you'll want to use the "free turn" sleep sometimes gives. And Night Shade instead of a STAB Air Slash? Not a great idea either.
I'm afraid he just doesn't have it in him, though I'm sure he could kill SOMETHING in UU.
Using ~70 base spatk/speed isn't powerful or fast enough to justify taking 25% with every SR switch-in.
Hypnosis Specs is likewise pretty terrible since you'll want to use the "free turn" sleep sometimes gives. And Night Shade instead of a STAB Air Slash? Not a great idea either.
I'm afraid he just doesn't have it in him, though I'm sure he could kill SOMETHING in UU.
If you're using Noctowl, you're probably goin to want to wander into UU anyways, and in that enviornment, it could work, as there's not as much of a sure wall there.
As for Golduck, I'd still rather hit like 272 or some shit since everyone POINTLESSLY and when I say pointlessly, I mean it is absolutely 100% pointless, has 270 speed. It's no good to not outrun those. It doesn't OHKO Skarm after a CM anyways so might as well take from spatk.
As for Golduck, I'd still rather hit like 272 or some shit since everyone POINTLESSLY and when I say pointlessly, I mean it is absolutely 100% pointless, has 270 speed. It's no good to not outrun those. It doesn't OHKO Skarm after a CM anyways so might as well take from spatk.
what about this-
Heracross@ Leftovers
Impish
252 hp, 100 atk, 152 def
Bulk Up
Megahorn
Close Combat
Stone Edge/Night Slash
ok, this is generally a Bulk Up Heracross- but here are some calcs, with 1 Bulk Up that is....
OK, Physical threats... ALL ARE CHOICE BAND + 252 Atk Ev's
Garchomp-
Outrage
(Choice Band) Damage: 57.14% - 67.31%
Fire Fang
Damage: 41.76% - 49.18%
Dragon Claw
Damage: 38.46% - 45.05%
Stone Edge
Damage: 31.87% - 37.64%
with CH- Damage: 95.05% - 112.09%
ok, so with garchomp he only Fears CBed Critical Hitting Stone Edges with 1 Bulk Up
Metagross-
Meteor Mash
Damage: 57.14% - 67.31%
Zen Headbutt
Damage: 78.85% - 92.86%
Now, a SE STAB CBed 252 ev'ed atk doesn't even OHKO this.... wow.
Thunder Punch
Damage: 24.73% - 29.12%
Medicham- CB, 252 atk
Psycho Cut-Damage: 61.81% - 72.53%
Fire Punch- Damage: 43.96% - 51.65%
Skarmory......Still owns him
Drill Peck
Damage: 111.54% - 131.04%
Brave Bird
Damage: 165.93% - 195.05%
anyone want to try CBSkarm?
Infernape
Flare Blitz....er this still owns it
Damage: 98.08% - 115.38%
Stone Edge
Damage: 27.47% - 32.14%
CH-Damage: 81.59% - 95.88%
Electrvire
T-Punch well.... Damage: 34.62% - 40.93%
Fire Punch Damage: 46.15% - 54.40%
Bronzong
Gyro Ball......lol Damage: 1.10% - 1.37%
Gyarados
Waterfall-Damage: 37.36% - 43.96%
Ok, so as you can see, My Heracross can take all of these hits with just 1 Bulk up. But, to get him in you need to switch into something that Hera beats, and Bulk Up on the Switch. And out of all the things I Checked, only CB Infernape, and CB Skarm really have a high chance of OHKOing him. But who runs those anyway? anyway, have fun with this I admit, the 2HKO's are not very fun, but the Bulk Up can give you the power to smack them pretty hard before you go down....
Owned by Firewater Corporations, created by firewater.
Heracross@ Leftovers
Impish
252 hp, 100 atk, 152 def
Bulk Up
Megahorn
Close Combat
Stone Edge/Night Slash
ok, this is generally a Bulk Up Heracross- but here are some calcs, with 1 Bulk Up that is....
OK, Physical threats... ALL ARE CHOICE BAND + 252 Atk Ev's
Garchomp-
Outrage
(Choice Band) Damage: 57.14% - 67.31%
Fire Fang
Damage: 41.76% - 49.18%
Dragon Claw
Damage: 38.46% - 45.05%
Stone Edge
Damage: 31.87% - 37.64%
with CH- Damage: 95.05% - 112.09%
ok, so with garchomp he only Fears CBed Critical Hitting Stone Edges with 1 Bulk Up
Metagross-
Meteor Mash
Damage: 57.14% - 67.31%
Zen Headbutt
Damage: 78.85% - 92.86%
Now, a SE STAB CBed 252 ev'ed atk doesn't even OHKO this.... wow.
Thunder Punch
Damage: 24.73% - 29.12%
Medicham- CB, 252 atk
Psycho Cut-Damage: 61.81% - 72.53%
Fire Punch- Damage: 43.96% - 51.65%
Skarmory......Still owns him
Drill Peck
Damage: 111.54% - 131.04%
Brave Bird
Damage: 165.93% - 195.05%
anyone want to try CBSkarm?
Infernape
Flare Blitz....er this still owns it
Damage: 98.08% - 115.38%
Stone Edge
Damage: 27.47% - 32.14%
CH-Damage: 81.59% - 95.88%
Electrvire
T-Punch well.... Damage: 34.62% - 40.93%
Fire Punch Damage: 46.15% - 54.40%
Bronzong
Gyro Ball......lol Damage: 1.10% - 1.37%
Gyarados
Waterfall-Damage: 37.36% - 43.96%
Ok, so as you can see, My Heracross can take all of these hits with just 1 Bulk up. But, to get him in you need to switch into something that Hera beats, and Bulk Up on the Switch. And out of all the things I Checked, only CB Infernape, and CB Skarm really have a high chance of OHKOing him. But who runs those anyway? anyway, have fun with this I admit, the 2HKO's are not very fun, but the Bulk Up can give you the power to smack them pretty hard before you go down....
Owned by Firewater Corporations, created by firewater.
Then why not use Raichu?
Its ugly and I hates it
But 90 base attack is alot better than 55...
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