Resource USUM PU Viability Rankings

[Aaronboyer]

Carbink C+ --> B-
Haven't really made a VR post in a while because for the most part I think the VR is quite solid, but I do think that this Pokemon is really undersold. I think it's typing fits very well with the metagame, with things like Lilligant, Carracosta, and Lanturn falling out of favor and the general lack of Steel-types. It's easier to fit on teams than one might at first expect and it performs its job of securely setting up rocks and checking Fires and Dragons well. It's not perfect, and faces a lot of competition from thing like Regirock and Clefairy, but I still think it's better than all the other C+ mons and as on par with most of the B- ranked mons.


Victreebel C+ --> C
Not that I want to crowd the C Rank more than what it's already crowded, but Victreebel is just not that good. I'm probably the last person you'd expect to be making this nomination, but Sun Hyper Offense this generation just cannot keep up. The current metagame is favoring more bulkier playstyles which is the last thing Victreebel wants to hear and recent drops like Aurorus and Spiritomb makes utilizing Sun HO even harder due to Snow Warning and strong priority. Victreebel is still undoubtedly one of the best Special Chlorophyll sweepers of the tier, but Sun being a near irrelevant playstyle prevents this from being any better than what it is.

 

[Jordy]

-> C/C-
Pawniard really isn't that good as the rest of C+, with the rise of Qwilfish it lost both one of its best teammates and the Pokemon it could take advantage of. Qwilfish was the premier Spiker on Offense teams, which Pawniard generally fit best on. Qwilfish had generally nice synergy with Pawniard as it could punish the Defoggers that Pawniard couldn't, it could also check Fighting-types which Pawniard struggles against. Pawniard also punished Qwilfish because of Intimidate, which, thanks to Defiant, Pawniard could take advantage off and potentially start a sweep or clean up. It also doesn't beat that many popular Defoggers at all; Altaria and Swanna for example, both are possibly the best Defoggers right now and they can both beat Pawniard. Also, the current metagame is pretty Fighting-type heavy right now and Pawniard is essentially a free switch in for Passimian, which is very hard to deal with to begin with. Other Fighting-types like Gurdurr and Hitmonchan can also beat it thanks to their access to Mach Punch.

-> A-
Aurorus is a good Pokemon as it can run a variety of sets that are all very consistent. Its Choice Specs set is very good because it can break down most Pokemon in the tier thanks to its insanely powerful Blizzard's and myriad of coverage moves. Its Choice Scarf set is good in its own rights because it can revenge kill a lot of the frailer unboosted Pokemon like Oricorio-G and Archeops. It's also a nice Stealth Rock lead for HO teams because it has a good matchup against practically every other Stealth Rock setter. While its typing is obviously good offensively it does have some merits defensively, which, coupled with its good Special Defense stat is good to take advantage of Pokemon like Weezing and Oricorio-G.

 

[LordST]

Quick post:

Sensu from A+ --> A
Sensu has really fallen victim to recent meta trends, particularly the SSSS set. Eelektross is as popular as ever and Regirock is still getting the high usage its always gotten. The addition of Spiritomb to the tier also hampered its ability to break significantly thanks to its combination of Infiltrator and SE priority meaning Sensu will just die through its sub and/or has to play unfavorable 50/50s between Pursuit and Sucker. The scarf set is still a solid niche option for teams that need it though even then Lilligant and Zangoose haven't been getting as much usage as they used to (even though they're still good). Sensu just hasn't been as dominate atm as it has in metas past, so I think a drop to A is reasonable.

Carbink from C+ --> B- Agree
Don't wanna speak too much on this since Aaron covered it pretty well but this mon has been underrated for too long. It serves as the perfect Regirock/Clefairy hybrid that a fair amount of defensive builds need. It's really one of the only true fire counters in the tier. Clefairy can lose to Specs or Taunt variants of Pyroar and Mag while Regirock, Miltank, Type: Null,etc can lose to Z Focus Blast from Mag. Carbink doesn't have these problems thanks to consistent rock stab to properly threaten taunt variants(a problem Clefairy has) and a fantastic defensive typing and bulk that lets it shrug off Z Focus Blasts(a problem Regirock has). These specific benefits make Carbink an invaluable asset on balance and stall builds that really need the role compression only Carbink can provide.

 

[Salemjuggernaut]

Okay, the new quick drops came in and I want to talk about them

Dugtrio >B-: Dugtrio isn't really that great. But it has a few aspects about it that gives it a niche over its Alolan Form. The speed tier is absolutely amazing in PU, being only outsped by Electrode and Ninjask and allowing it to outspeeding Floatzel, and Zebstrika and doesn’t need to win a speed tie vs Archeops or Alolan-Raichu. However I do feel that Alolan-Dug’s Steel typing can be better at times and is very susceptible to priority users like Skuntank and Scarf users like Primeape.

Torkoal >D: This mon is terrible without Drought. But I’ll take it easy cause it just dropped. But afterwards, it should be unranked.

Smeargle >B+: It can be a potentially good lead for web teams, but once Smeargle dies and the opponent is able to get off a Rapid Spin or Defog, it becomes wasted.

Here’s a few more noms I would like to make

Togedemaru A- to B+
I still think it’s a solid Pokémon, but I don’t think it’s A- worthy. Most Electrics and offensive normal types carry Fire or Fighting coverage, Togedemaru risks getting Scald burned if it switches in, and is taken advantage of by many offensive Fire and Fighting types which are gaining a surge in popularity. Again, I still think it’s solid.

Bellossom C to C-/D
What niche does this thing even have over Lilligant? The only thing it has over it is better bulk yet it has less fire power, speed, and lacks the Own Tempo + Petal Dance combo Lilligant is known for.

Spiritomb A- to A
Spiritomb is actually a really nice win-con and Pursuit Trapper on Defensive teams. The lack of stops outside of Clefairy gives it several opportunities to swap in and set up Calm Mind due to its defensive typing. It’s main problem is the Physical Pursuit Trapping sets having some passive traits to it like the 4 move syndrome. I’m mostly nominating it to A more so for the CM set.

Electrode D to UR
This thing is still here. The only good thing about it is it’s high speed but it’s still not worth using over other electric types.

 

[Sultan]

Leafanny C -> UR
Masquerain C -> UR

Smeargle just outclasses these two with its much better movepool. There is just little reason to use these two, especially with their weakness to common threats like Archeops and Skunk. The extra damage might cause one of them to have a minor niche, but since they struggle to beat even offensive Pokémon like Magmortar, Aggron, and Oricorio, so really I don't think that's enough to keep them ranked.

 

[tondas]

stuff

Gonna have to disagree with a few statements made here. First off, I think it's WAY too early to rank the new drops, especially since you're overestimating stuff like Smeargle going to B+ despite it not being effective in a meta that favors bulky offense and balance. Belossom has Strength Sap which makes it an obnoxiously good check to a handful of physical attackers which is not something Lilligant can accomplish. They perform two slightly different roles and should not be compared directly. Electrodes niche is as a rain setter because it can fast taunt and pivot. It's not something you'd use as a pure offensive mon and it deserves to be in the VR. Todegemaru is actually really good rn because of the general dominance of flying types and decreased Primeape usage. Clef and Aurorus and such are also on the rise.

 

[asa]

Leafanny C -> UR
Masquerain C -> UR

Smeargle just outclasses these two with its much better movepool. There is just little reason to use these two, especially with their weakness to common threats like Archeops and Skunk. The extra damage might cause one of them to have a minor niche, but since they struggle to beat even offensive Pokémon like Magmortar, Aggron, and Oricorio, so really I don't think that's enough to keep them ranked.

idk if it's just me, but I feel like it's a bit too soon to be saying this, especially since we just got drops today.

To prevent this from being a one-liner, I agree with Carbink to B-. It's one of the tier's best switch-ins to Magmortar and Drampa, and fits well on balance and stall because of this. I also agree with Aurorus to A-. Aurorus is a really threatening wallbreaker, 2HKOing a lot of the tier with Choice Specs Blizzard, takes advantage of how many specially defensive Pokemon used don't resist Ice, solid offensive check to Oricorio-G, and even Choice Scarf has some merit due to it being able to revenge kill Pokemon such as Archeops and Passimian.

 

[tondas]

Hello, hi, yes, it's me.

Lurantis should drop from B to B-. The meta really hasn't been kind to this thing, like, at all. Aurorus/Hail offense is really good, Eel has picked up significantly in usage, lots of things can heavily chip it with U-Turn and switch into a resist whilst Lurantis can't do much in return due to its horrible speed, and just in general doesn't compare well to the rest of B rank and what they have to offer. It has merits as a Defogger that can apply offensive pressure, absolutely, but most balance teams (The thing Lurantis shines at breaking) are equipped with something like Altaria which wears it down without HP Ice and other annoyances like Skuntank and Weezing and the occasional Eelektross.

This was brought up a couple weeks ago but Altaria should really rise to A/A-. One of the coolest merits this thing has as a defogger is the ability to beat nearly every hazard setter in the tier bar stuff like Aurorus or Ice Beam from offensive rocks Mes, and constantly keep itself healthy with Roost and Natural Cure. Something I don't think is brought up often is its speed tier, and what it allows it do with 16 Spe is outpace stuff like Regirock and defensive Carracosta (While tying with 16 Mes) and take little from their STAB as it roosts and just continually wears them down with Toxic and Roost while simultaneously Defogging their hazards and switching out to remove toxic. It's also a good Passimian check and I know people really like that thing.

 

[LORD HELIX 65]

Imo Kingler should rise to B- or even B. It's current rank doesn't reflect it's true power in the tier, as it is ranked alongside very niche pokemon like Poliwrath and Crabominable. If you can get up a SD and if you are running agility or a web team.... yikes. At +2 liquidation hits so hard its fucking disgusting. It OHKOes even resists like Swanna and Abomasnow with liquidation and breaks past even the bulkiest walls in one hit like Regirock, Brozong, Clefairy, and even ferroseed with superpower. With rocks support it can OHKO a large portion of the metagame and is a serious threat if you are not ready for it, which many people aren't, and is why I think it should rise to B- or maybe even B.

 

[Hugh Neutron]

Imo Kingler should rise to B- or even B. It's current rank doesn't reflect it's true power in the tier, as it is ranked alongside very niche pokemon like Poliwrath and Crabominable. If you can get up a SD and if you are running agility or a web team.... yikes. At +2 liquidation hits so hard its fucking disgusting. It OHKOes even resists like Swanna and Abomasnow with liquidation and breaks past even the bulkiest walls in one hit like Regirock, Brozong, Clefairy, and even ferroseed with superpower. With rocks support it can OHKO a large portion of the metagame and is a serious threat if you are not ready for it, which many people aren't, and is why I think it should rise to B- or maybe even B.

Yeah I agree. Kingler hits very hard and the mons in its ranking are much worse than Kingler. I think B- or B is a better option too, becuase Kingler does need a turn to set up and a bit of support to become a threat.

Bellossom C> C-

Bellossom is as bad as it is outclassed. It gets quiver dance, but its base 50 speed ruins its chances of sweeping with only one quiver set up, and it is completely outclassed by the other grass type quiver dance user, Lilligant, who has a base 90 speed. Trick Room would be an option, but once again, it is outclassed by Exeggutor-Alola, the better grass type trick room user. It has Chlorophyll, but it is outclassed again by Lilligant, Victrebell, etc. Defensively, it's outclassed by Ferroseed, Gourgeist, and even Cradilly because of its mediocre stats and the fact that all three have either better typings, better moves, or both, and they all have better stats. However, Bellossom does have one small niche that saves it: Strength Sap. I like what Skankovich points out here:

Strength Sap isn't as much about setup opportunities, although it does offer that, as it as about making it hard to stop. With options in the last slot like coverage, sleep powder or safeguard it seems to fit in C, which is full of mons with only small niches (with a few exceptions that could probably move up but w/e).

. Despite that, I still think that C is a bit too high.

 

[Ryolain]

Bellossom’s niche is Strength Sap, which gives it a unique way to carve out setup opportunities for itself to rack up the multiple QDs it needs to sweep and makes it harder to check after it does set up. Not sure whether that niche still merits placement in C, but I’ve seen a couple people now ask why you’d ever use it over Lilligant, so there’s why.

 

[Hugh Neutron]

Bellossom’s niche is Strength Sap, which gives it a unique way to carve out setup opportunities for itself to rack up the multiple QDs it needs to sweep and makes it harder to check after it does set up. Not sure whether that niche still merits placement in C, but I’ve seen a couple people now ask why you’d ever use it over Lilligant, so there’s why.

That is a good point, but that just doesn't help its case that much. Its better to have a sweeper who needs just one QD to be a threat than a sweeper who has to rely on multipe QD's to be good. Lilligant can also carve up setup opportunities with Sleep Powder despite its 1/4 miss chance. Also, Bellossom is very slow, so its going to have to be able to tank a hit to get off a strength sap if it is unboosted. I just think that strength sap isn't enough to make it anything better than D rank.

 

[Skankovich]

Strength Sap isn't as much about setup opportunities, although it does offer that, as it as about making it hard to stop. With options in the last slot like coverage, sleep powder or safeguard it seems to fit in C, which is full of mons with only small niches (with a few exceptions that could probably move up but w/e).

 

[Aaronboyer]

Archeops S --> A+

Archeops has fallen from grace since the release of USUM. The metagame has pushed for bulkier builds that include Physically Defensive Walls that Archeops has a hard time against: Mesprit, Weezing, Gastrodon, Ferroseed, and Regirock just to name a few. Archeops' Suicide Lead set is outclassed by Lycanroc now that it also gets access to Endeavor + SR + Taunt too. All the common Choice Scarfers (Passimian, Primeape, Togedemaru, Swanna, Jynx) outspeed it and OHKO it. It doesn't fare well against any of the December drops (Spiritomb, Aurorus, Snowslash, and Claydol), it's still weak to the ever-present Stealth Rock, and Defeatest is an absolute nuisance. Just check out Archeops' Usage stats from PUPL III to (what is so far) the Smogon Exhibition.

| 6 | Archeops | 13 | 17.11% | 61.54% |
| 23 | Archeops | 4 | 8.33% | 75.00% |

It has went from the 6th most used to now bring tied for 23rd with a handful of A- and B+ ranked Pokemon like Hitmonchan and Aggron. Now usage stats aren't everything and this isn't all to say that Archeops isn't usable or even that it isn't something really good. I kinda see it in the same light as Jynx where it's a low usage SR weak glass cannon that opponents have to deal with right away. But Archeops imo is nowhere near being a "defining Pokemon of the tier" anymore and for these reasons I believe Archeops should move down to at least A+.

 

[BP]

B+---->A-/A
So I feel this nomination is pretty long overdue especially with the current Passimian suspect test going on. Altaria is probably the tiers Second best Defogger behind skuntank of course. It has great bulk, a great ability which allows it to be an awesome status absorber, and a fantastic defensive typing which resists some of the tiers top Offensive threats at the moment namely Passimian, Magmortar, and Eelektross. Furthermore it finds itself more often than not being a fantastic ferroseed counter that shuts down most hazard stack. I find Altaria is used in almost every ladder game I've cared to play recently.

Here are some recent stats:
From Ladder: | 19 | Altaria | 7.31998% | 4.915%
From Exhibition Week 5: | 3 | Altaria | 4 | 33.33% | 75.00% |

I feel like these usage stats are real eye openers in terms of current viability in the metagame. While I do agree that going straight from B+ to A is quite a jump I feel it's deserved with how popular and viable Altaria is currently.

EDIT: oh hey Tonda Gossa! I didn't even see your post

 

[MZ]

Smeargle --> C+
Dugtrio --> Unranked
Torkoal --> Unranked

Altaria B+ to A
Kingler C+ to B
Aurorus B+ to A-
Spiritomb A- to A
Zangoose A- to B+
Carbink C+ to B-
Victreebel C+ to C
Pawniard C+ to C
Mawile C to C+
Electrode D to Unranked
Leavanny C to C-
Masquerain C to C-

Rejected noms

Togedemaru A- to B+
Bellossom C to C-/D
Lurantis B to B-
Archeops S to A+

Discussion points from last time that got rejected
Mareanie Unranked to D
Basculin Unranked to D
Stunfisk D to C-
Type: Null A- to B+

Smeargle is the only drop that's demonstrated any kind of niche, that of a suicide lead. Torkoal and Dugtrio just can't really do anything that Turtonator or Alolan Dugtrio can't, Dugtrio has the Speed to beat Floatzel/Alolan Persian/Zebstrika and not tie with Archeops but that's not enough to justify using it. We also voted on the discussion points from last time and decided to not rank Basculin or Mareanie, Basculin just doesn't differentiate itself well and Mareanie is just overhyped and always does something but never better than anything else.

As for some other changes, Altaria/Kingler/Spiritomb/Aurorus have all seen a ton more usage just due to fitting into the meta really well at the moment and rose accordingly. Zangoose wasn't discussed in the thread, but I initially brought up the nomination because it just has a really hard time as a wallbreaker compared to Stoutland and Kangaskhan. Toxic Orb gets worn down real quick and BD just isn't good. The only other nom not discussed here was Mawile rising, and that's also just seen more usage recently because it happens to benefit from the meta trends of all the common defensive mons losing to it (Regirock, Altaria, Spiritomb, Ferroseed assuming you run a Fire move, etc.). As for the rejected nominations, honestly the council just disagreed with how people saw the mons. Archeops is still a meta defining threat, people didn't seem to get how Bellossom actually functioned, etc.

One discussion point: Oricorio-Sensu dropping split the council evenly, stuff like Eelektross, Spiritomb and Aurorus have gotten very good lately but at the same time this mon is still strong as hell and absolutely dominates some matchups. More opinions on that would be welcome.

 

[InfernalScizor]

Time for my decisions to move up some mons

Crustle: C-B/B+

Yes, its not as good as a shell smasher as Mr. Costa but it is a effcient sweeper that can edgequake and kill mespirit after one shell smash. It even has the ability weak armor, to make it EVEN FASTER. It also has some good defense, so any physical attackers will make it a fast threat.

Replays of Crustle cleaning
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pususpecttest-702689144
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pususpecttest-702693789
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pususpecttest-702705166

 

[TJ]

Clefairy from A --> A+

Hi, its me TJ and I dont think I have made a VR post since ORAS

Clefairy is one of the best Pokemon in the tier atm, it fulfils its roles perfectly and fits very nicely on many of the bulky offenses and balances that have been running around because it can check a bunch of important stuff like Aurorus, Pyroar (non taunt), Magmortar (non Taunt), Drampa, Mesprit, Altaria, etc. Blanket checks have always been extremely useful, and the utility that Clefairy provides in being able to both set up rocks and pivot is extremely useful. Clef is also blessed with Magic Guard which is easily one of the best abilities in the game meaning it doesn't take any hazard damage, which is a huge selling point in a metagame where entry hazards are prevalent. Clefairy has also proven to be an extremely versatile threat. For example, Clef can run Thunder Wave, Calm Mind, Stealth Rock, Encore, Knock Off, Seismic Toss, Flamethrower, and Toxic in its moveset, which makes its presence always an advantage regardless of the set. All in all, Clefairy's role as a bulky specially defensive wall has only gotten more and more valuable, which is why it deserves a rise to A+ imo.

 

[tondas]

This is probably gonna be my last post for a little while.

Claydol should drop from C+ to C. If I had to be honest with you, this mon is really mediocre. Initially I had hyped this thing for being able to hit Skunk + Weezing for super-effective damage (It hardly even beats Skunk, you have to bring it in safely at full health and hope it isn't banded)
but the negatives really outweigh the positives. First off, it's weak to Spiritomb, the most common and arguably best spinblocker in the tier and it ends up taking a million damage from Pursuit (Black Glasses Tomb will have a favorable chance to OHKO offensive Claydol variants). It has a similar issue to, say, Musharna, where it finds itself in unfavorable meta trends. Choiced mons have an easy time chipping away with U-Turn (252 Atk Primeape U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Claydol: 126-150 (48.2 - 57.4%)) most defensive walls carry toxic (No recovery doesn't help) and the tier just has really good dark-types.

Shiftry should drop from B+ to B. Nothing particularly wrong with this thing, but it doesn't quite compare to the rest of B+. Defog became much more widespread since its placement in B+, ergo its role as an offensive defogger isn't nearly as effective. With teams pushing for more fast/bulky fighting- types and flying- types it's often hard for Shiftry to stay alive to keep hazards off the field.

Prinplup should drop from C- to D. What does this thing even do, and what merits does it have over nearly anything else in the tier? It's a worse Carracosta as a rocker, a worse Silvally-W as a defogger, and it's really awkward to fit onto any serious build because besides setting up/removing hazards it does almost nothing. And unlike the other hazard controllers I mentioned, Prinplup is incredibly passive and is almost completely shut down by Taunt.

Grumpig should drop from D to UR. The only merit I see this thing having over Mesprit is Thick Fat to make it a theoretical Magmortar check, but I find that was never really the case as it was just Taunted and chipped at by Thunderbolt while it just sits there in return, along with Pyroar becoming more popular and existing meta trends that make its already bad flaws even worse, like its awful physical defense and general inability to break through things that other Psychics in the tier can.

 

[MZ]

Passimian A+ --> RIP

We got to talking on discord and there are some mons in B+ that I think are noticeably out of place. Most of the rank has some very well defined niches but then a solid group is just not really as good as the rest, mons that I don't think are especially terrible but also don't deserve to be so high. Especially consider these in the context of other mons that are quite good at what they do but hard to fit on teams like Alolan Persian sitting in B.

Shiftry B+ to B: Been saying it for a while on discord but there's a reason people don't really use this. It loses hard to most of the top mons and what it is good at (some seriously strong wallbreaking) is done by a lot of other things too. Competing with Alolan Ret and Skunk and Lilligant is just problematic and this shouldn't be so high.

Golurk B+ to B: Also fails to find its niche amongst a lot of other similar mons. I don't like this being in the same rank as Aggron. Actually, I don't like it in general. It's not an especially threatening or effective mon. Of all these noms this is probably the most contentious since I know people like this a good deal more than I do, but still, Golurk kinda sucks.

Kabutops B+ to B: I was fine with this being B+ when scarf was hot but like, eeeh. Can run lots of sets, cannot run any really good ones. It's not a go-to remover or a go-to offensive water or a go-to wallbreaker and yeah, like the above mons all I can say is why. Still not a bad mon to use, but not right ranking this next to things like Pinsir.

Throh B+ to B: We still ranked this too high, it's not shit but at some point the fact that Gurdurr is infinitely easier to fit onto teams and much more immediately threatening kinda bursts Throh's bubble. If it could ever really run mono Fighting STAB on Bulk Up then it can't now, in general people are (or should be) more prepared for cro-things and Fighting types given Spiritomb's presence and how Fighters are still really good despite the Passimian ban, and should I even mention CB here? Unsure if people take it that seriously, it's a legit threatening set I don't have an issue with but it's also not common or really talked about at all or enough to keep it so high. Putting this next to Alolan Persian in the "well defined niche + solid mon but can't really fit this anywhere" category seems fair.

Kingler B to B+: We just rose this 2 subranks and it's not enough, it's legitimately terrifying and has basically 3 switchins which dwindles down to 0 if it's not running Agility/Liquidation/Knock/Superpower and decides to fit on Ice Beam or SD. I'm sorry it took me so long to give this thing a serious shot, it should absolutely be considered a serious metagame threat on the level of Aggron and Articuno. Agility Kingler is a top 5 setup sweeper and if nothing else here goes through it needs to switch places with Kabutops.

 

[LORD HELIX 65]

We got to talking on discord and there are some mons in B+ that I think are noticeably out of place. Most of the rank has some very well defined niches but then a solid group is just not really as good as the rest, mons that I don't think are especially terrible but also don't deserve to be so high. Especially consider these in the context of other mons that are quite good at what they do but hard to fit on teams like Alolan Persian sitting in B.

Shiftry B+ to B: Been saying it for a while on discord but there's a reason people don't really use this. It loses hard to most of the top mons and what it is good at (some seriously strong wallbreaking) is done by a lot of other things too. Competing with Alolan Ret and Skunk and Lilligant is just problematic and this shouldn't be so high.

Golurk B+ to B: Also fails to find its niche amongst a lot of other similar mons. I don't like this being in the same rank as Aggron. Actually, I don't like it in general. It's not an especially threatening or effective mon. Of all these noms this is probably the most contentious since I know people like this a good deal more than I do, but still, Golurk kinda sucks.

Kabutops B+ to B: I was fine with this being B+ when scarf was hot but like, eeeh. Can run lots of sets, cannot run any really good ones. It's not a go-to remover or a go-to offensive water or a go-to wallbreaker and yeah, like the above mons all I can say is why. Still not a bad mon to use, but not right ranking this next to things like Pinsir.

Throh B+ to B: We still ranked this too high, it's not shit but at some point the fact that Gurdurr is infinitely easier to fit onto teams and much more immediately threatening kinda bursts Throh's bubble. If it could ever really run mono Fighting STAB on Bulk Up then it can't now, in general people are (or should be) more prepared for cro-things and Fighting types given Spiritomb's presence and how Fighters are still really good despite the Passimian ban, and should I even mention CB here? Unsure if people take it that seriously, it's a legit threatening set I don't have an issue with but it's also not common or really talked about at all or enough to keep it so high. Putting this next to Alolan Persian in the "well defined niche + solid mon but can't really fit this anywhere" category seems fair.

Kingler B to B+: We just rose this 2 subranks and it's not enough, it's legitimately terrifying and has basically 3 switchins which dwindles down to 0 if it's not running Agility/Liquidation/Knock/Superpower and decides to fit on Ice Beam or SD. I'm sorry it took me so long to give this thing a serious shot, it should absolutely be considered a serious metagame threat on the level of Aggron and Articuno. Agility Kingler is a top 5 setup sweeper and if nothing else here goes through it needs to switch places with Kabutops.

Have to agree with all of these as the first 3 mons haven't been pulling there own weight in the meta recently and especially agree with Kingler up yet again. I know i nommed it up before and the nom was listened to and moved kingler up to B, Kingler is truly terrifying and 130 attack with sheer force AND a strong stab move makes this mon like PU's Feraligatr. There is no way to express how hard it hits at +2 with liquidation as well, it decimates anything in its way, even a good chunk of "resists". This is an excellent mon rn and the only way I see it going is up.

 

[TJ]

Kingler from B --> B+

I agree with Zard on this one, Kingler rising to B+ is fair, it has demonstrated to have more merit than anything currently sitting with it in B. Kingler has soared in usage over the past month and is easily one of the best wallbreakers / setup sweepers we have. Kingler's offensive presence has exceeded expectations since the loss of Qwilfish and it matches extremely well with stuff like Togedemaru that can force in bulky Pokemon like Palossand and Ferroseed. Kingler is also easy to fit on teams and specifically pairs well with Healing wish Mesprit's omnipresence since it can function as a breaker early game without regard for its own health, then come back with a Healing Wish to clean. In general, not much can switch into Kingler, it's so strong to the point that it doesn't require SD. Rather, Kingler can select to work around a couple of checks such as Altaria and Gastrodon using moves like Ice Beam and Knock Off. Kingler can likewise bear to run Substitute, which turns Pokemon like Ferroseed and Altaria into setup fodder. Kingler also sports decent physical bulk, which enables it to set up on offensive Pokemon such as Primeape and Alolan Sandslash comfortably. To conclude, Kingler simply has been so dominant as of late so I think a rise to B+ is reasonable.

Here are some replays of Kingler's effectiveness:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-696175853 - PU Seasonal Finals (Sub Set)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-689632058 - Teddeh vs Robert Alfons (Sub Set) This replay in particular showcases how Kingler can set up on passive stuff, in this case pyuku, and just win from there on out
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7pu-348958 - Smogon Exb TJ vs Arifeen (Standard Set)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7pu-351884 - Smogon Exb Kushalos vs Arifeen (Knock Off)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-706033361 - Smogon Exb TSR vs Neo (Knock Off)

Edit: Will probably add more noms later if I have time [:

 

[Tsareentje]

Hey this is my first post here, didn't feel to make a post for a while because pu vr is very good as it is.

Gurdurr from A --> A+
This is something that has been bothering me recently, we currently have 3 Fighting-type Pokemon sitting in A. In my opinion, Gurdurr is the most effective Fighting-type Pokemon in the metagame right now. I know Gurdurr was A+ at some point but it should be there again. After the Passimian ban Gurdurr has only gotten better, because teams changed after Passimian ban. In Passimian period teams had like 2-3 fighting checks, that changed now teams run 1-2 fighting checks. And not all teams can check Gurdurr well. First of all Gurdur's slow breaking power can pose a huge threat to many teams. Switching against Gurdurr is pretty hard for teams if they lack counters like Weezing, which can still be worn down with Knock Off. Gurdurr has all the tools it needs in order to be a reliable set up sweeper with access to Drain Punch, Mach Punch, Knock Off, and Bulk Up. Gurdurr can also set up with ease thanks to its great bulk and it can acts as a status absorber and can beat stuff like Gastrodon, which other Fighting-types aren't tasked to handle. For the reasons I mentioned above, I think Gurdurr deserves a rise to A+ because its role compression is unrivaled.

Aggron from B+ --> A-
Aggron has always felt underrated to me. It has always been a good pokemon and now even more. Fighting-types are still common, but Passimian leaving helps Aggron a lot. First of all, its Choice Band set is amazing and extremely difficult to switch into. The strong head smash is killing unprepared teams very easily. This set has use against all kind of teams, dealing high damage to teams. Aggron even has a great matchup against stall teams, it is able to kill most of the members. Aggron is getting more involved in the meta with some use of its other sets. A SR setter set is very good too because Aggron can deal heavy damage with his strong stabs to some other leads like Mesprit. This role is also useful, because Aggron has high physical defense. And shuca berry to protect yourself against an incoming earthquake from a mon like Archeops, which is also very nice. It is also one of the only setters that is able to taunt, useful for mons like Feroseed. And even the av set for the real guys can be very effective to boost his bulk and surprise special attackers that were thinking they could kill Aggron easily. So in short Aggron deserves a rise to A-.

 

[asa]

Aurorus: A- to A (ik some people have expressed feelings about it rising to a+, but baby steps and such.) teach me how to get better at words btw lol.

I'm fully aware that Aurorus just rose from B+ to A-, but I am not under the impression that A- is enough to properly showcase how good Aurorus is at the moment. Choice Specs Blizzard hits so hard and is rather spammable thanks to Snow Warning perfecting its otherwise low accuracy, and the hail recoil further wearing down stuff like Eelektross is nice. Builds that are overly reliant on Altaria, the aforementioned Eelektross, and Hitmonchan to check special attackers find Aurorus obnoxious to deal with, and it also has the coverage to deal with Ice-resistant Steel-types and Magmortar in Earth Power and Freeze-Dry to punish Ice-resistant Water-types, making it at the very least annoying for teams without Miltank or the uncommon Grumpig to deal with. The splashabilty of pivots such as Mesprit, Primeape, and Eelektross also benefits it, as it doesn't always have to worry about its low Speed getting in the way of things. Aside from Choice Specs, Choice Scarf Aurorus is fairly solid as well and makes it annoying for more offensive teams to deal with, and the Stealth Rock lead set also has its benefits such as Encore and the aforementioned hail recoil to give setup sweepers an easier time going to work, and it has a positive matchup against some of the most common forms of entry hazard removal in Altaria and Swanna. Aurorus also boasts good bulk, allowing it to take hits from Pokemon like Skuntank and hit harder in retaliation. Obvious issues stem from the poor defensive typing and low Speed, but I feel as though the positives outweigh the negatives and that it at least deserves a small rise.

Regarding other nominations, I agree with Gurdurr to A+, Clefairy to A+, Aggron to A-, and Kingler to B+. don't lay a hand on best mon shiftry tho.

edit: someone ghosted me and i forgot this, but aurorus is also the best hail setter, and with how good a-slash is atm and how good of a cleaner it is, the two make for a threatening offensive pairing since they can eliminate each other's checks.

 

[GamerOGuy]

Bouffalant: Unranked -> Higher (at least B-)

Why is Bouffalant even unranked? He’s amazing both offensively and defensively. I get it, he has problematic speed, but Head Charge. Think about Head Charge like this. Double Edge with Wild Charge’s recoil. Yeah. With Reckless, this Mon is an offensive threat.
Oh yeah, he also has a good bulky ability in Sap Sipper and 95/95/95 defenses makes him a tank as well. He utilizes Return/Frustration the (arguably) best in this meta.
I know, with Archeops dominating in this meta, he isn’t as good as he could be. But use another mon for Archeops like, for example, Alolan Golem or Alolan Raichu. Or you can use Iron Head.
He also can utilize special defense EVs all the way because of the move Cotton Guard. (Damn this thing has a ginormous movepool.) He also gets Retaliate, which means he can pull a Slaking here and use it.
He also gets Amnesia. Basically he gets +2 SpDef.

In conclusion, this thing needs to move up.