Resource USUM PU Viability Rankings

Bouffalant: Unranked -> Higher (at least B-)

Why is Bouffalant even unranked? He’s amazing both offensively and defensively. I get it, he has problematic speed, but Head Charge. Think about Head Charge like this. Double Edge with Wild Charge’s recoil. Yeah. With Reckless, this Mon is an offensive threat.
Oh yeah, he also has a good bulky ability in Sap Sipper and 95/95/95 defenses makes him a tank as well. He utilizes Return/Frustration the (arguably) best in this meta.
I know, with Archeops dominating in this meta, he isn’t as good as he could be. But use another mon for Archeops like, for example, Alolan Golem or Alolan Raichu. Or you can use Iron Head.
He also can utilize special defense EVs all the way because of the move Cotton Guard. (Damn this thing has a ginormous movepool.) He also gets Retaliate, which means he can pull a Slaking here and use it.
He also gets Amnesia. Basically he gets +2 SpDef.

In conclusion, this thing needs to move up.
 
Bouffalant: Unranked -> Higher (at least B-)

Why is Bouffalant even unranked? He’s amazing both offensively and defensively. I get it, he has problematic speed, but Head Charge. Think about Head Charge like this. Double Edge with Wild Charge’s recoil. Yeah. With Reckless, this Mon is an offensive threat.
Oh yeah, he also has a good bulky ability in Sap Sipper and 95/95/95 defenses makes him a tank as well. He utilizes Return/Frustration the (arguably) best in this meta.
I know, with Archeops dominating in this meta, he isn’t as good as he could be. But use another mon for Archeops like, for example, Alolan Golem or Alolan Raichu. Or you can use Iron Head.
He also can utilize special defense EVs all the way because of the move Cotton Guard. (Damn this thing has a ginormous movepool.) He also gets Retaliate, which means he can pull a Slaking here and use it.
He also gets Amnesia. Basically he gets +2 SpDef.

In conclusion, this thing needs to move up.
The problem with bouf is just that it’s so outclassed. As a bulky normal type it’s further outclassed by Type Null which has the same bulk boosted by eviolite and crit immunity, making it a more viable user of defense boosting moves. On the offensive side it’s outclassed by Stoutland and Kangaskhan which both have Scrappy to deal with the defensive ghosts of this tier while having better speed, and in the case of Kangaskhan, strong Priority. It just doesn’t do much that any other normal type can’t do, and that speed really does hurt it so much.

Also Archeops doesn’t take any normal hits at all anyhow so idk how that’s a point against it, if anything you should’ve brought up Gurdurr and the bulky ghosts...
 
Shuckle @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Sticky Web
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Toxic

Day 1 nomination: Shuckle UR-> C

Shuckle is a decent lead for Hyper Offense teams as it compresses the role of stealth rock and sticky web without needing to waste an item slot on focus sash like Smeargle. Additionally, its decent bulk and utility movepool allows it to setup reliably against many bulkier teams in the meta. Here's a pretty decent replay of HO using Shuckle's rocks and webs to win the match: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-714702449
I know it's only day one and a little early to make assumptions on where a mon like shuckle should place but I really feel that it at least deserves a C rank in the current meta.
 

Aaronboyer

Villager Main!
is a Contributor to Smogon
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Gurdurr A --> A+

Gurdurr has kept getting better and better since the Passimian suspect test and through the February tier shifts. Gurdurr has become amazing offensive glue and is, in my opinion, the new best Fighting-type of the tier, being able to check a plethora of physical attackers and acts as a fantastic win-con wuth the same set. It has great type synergy with the best Healing Wish user in the tier, Mesprit, allowing Gurdurr the opprotunity to set up and win not only once, but twice. The absence of Altaria has made Gurdurr an even scarier threat since Swanna, Oricorio-Sensu and Clefairy don't really want to switch in on Gurdurr depending on what move it goes for. Lastly, Gurdurr fits well on Balance Offense, the dominant playstyle of the metagame currently. For all of these reasons, I believe Gurdurr deserves to rise to A+.

Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-712172817 vs TJ
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-711636662 vs LordST
 
First time trying anything like this, so don’t flame me too much


I would like to nom Gogoat from UR -> C-

I think Gogoat performs well enough in the meta to warrant being ranked. It’s best set imo is Sub Bulk Up + 2 attacks, which aims to turn some of the tier’s walls into set up fodder, such as Clefairy, Palossand, Lanturn, Audino, and even Ferroseed.

The set I’ve been using is:
The GOAT (Gogoat) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 68 HP / 168 Atk / 172 SpD / 100 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Horn Leech
- Earthquake/Zen Headbutt/Rock Slide
- Substitute
- Bulk Up

The HP EVs allows Gogoat to create 101 HP Substitutes, which allows them to not be broken by Seismic Toss’s from Clefairy or Miltank. Sp Def EVs mean that Palossand can never break your subs. 100 speed enables Gogoat to outpace uninvested base 80s, such as Defensive Mesprit, and the rest of the EVs are poured into attack to maximize damage.

Sap Sipper is a handy ability to punish some of the grass moves running around, such as Lilligant’s Sleep Powder/Giga Drain and Ferroseed’s Leech Seed and gives Gogoat more initial power on a switch-in.

Horn Leech is the main STAB, and allows for more recovery to be able to make more Substitutes. The last slot is up for grabs. Earthquake hits Skuntank, Drampa, and steels the hardest. Zen Headbutt can be an option to hit Weezing a bit harder, as well as other grasses such as Lilligant and Alolan Eggy. Rock Slide could be used to hit birbs, but is a bit weak overall.

Gogoat has good match ups vs bulkier, more passive teams that struggle to break subs. However, Gogoat has obvious and apparant flaws. Weezing is the biggest offender, always breaking Substitutes, potential to Haze away boosts, and cripple with burns. It’s also pressured offensively by many mons such as Magmortar, Archeops, Pyroar, etc. Weak initial power can be an issue as well.

Despite it’s lackluster match-up vs Offense and grass’s weaknesses, I believe Gogoat can differentiate itself enough and is effective enough at it’s job to rise from UR -> C-

Edit: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-717682763
Example of Gogoat exploiting teams lacking immediate power to break subs and threaten Gogoat.
 
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Many

my dog ate my teams
is a Tiering Contributor

Regice from D to B-

Regice can act as a very decent special tank as well as offensive threat. Due to its massive 200 SpD, Regice can easily check special attackers such as Mesprit, Swanna, Oricorio, Haunter, and Aurorus. As we have seen in recent months, Ice is a great offensive typing for breaking down bulky pokemon such as Palossand and Weezing, which Regice can switch into almost for free, and Regice has appropriate coverage for Ice-resists. Shouldn't need too much explaining, really- it's a Regice, it can take a lot of damage and it can dish it. Probably not the best time to nom it since we lost Altaria (Altaria was both a great partner and something Regice took advantage of), but it's still a decent pokemon regardless. Below is the set I've been using, which I believe is the best Regice set in the metagame.

Regice @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 192 HP / 252 SpA / 64 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Toxic
- Protect
- Focus Blast

Ice Beam is STAB. Focus Blast provides by far the best coverage alongside of it, hitting pokemon such as Ferroseed, Miltank, Alolan-Sandslash, Aurorus, and Pyroar. Toxic is a good move for helping vs. bulkier pokemon like Gastrodon and non-Heal Bell Lanturn. And finally, Protect is a great last slot because a lot of the pokemon that want to revenge-kill Regice are often choice-locked (such as Primeape and Pyroar), and it not only helps with scouting but racks up Toxic damage and increases Lefties recovery. Regice struggles a good amount with Clefairy but Clef is passive anyway and you can always fish for a freeze. As an Ice-type attacker, Regice faces the most immediate competition from Aurorus, who is definitely the better pokemon in general, but Regice easily differentiates itself with its ridiculous bulk and ability to function as a tank.

here's a replay of this set in action:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pususpecttest-700686016. As you can see, Mesprit is a great partner because of Fighting-resist and Healing Wish support.
 

tondas

2am nujabes
is a Contributor to Smogon
Hello.

Silvally.png
Silvally-Dragon should get ranked somewhere around C. Not only a solid offensive defogger/pivot that fits on balanced archetypes well, but it's seen some solid success and usage in tour play (both fall seasonal finalists used it multiple times throughout the tour). While they shouldn't be directly compared, it retains some of Altaria's resistances to common fire and water- types that roam around the tier, and serves as a passable check to the rising fire- types in a meta freed of Altaria and thereby deserves a spot on the VR.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-715097072 this replay shows Silvally being able to heavily chip Lanturn and Hitmonchan for the rest of my team, as well as being a somewhat safe answer to Knock Off which annoys a lot of my teammates.


Rather abstain on most of the nominations here but I am definitely in full support of Aggron moving up to A-. Switch-ins are pretty much limited to Gastrodon and Palossand, tears through balance like no other, and experimenting with it has proven to work, such as the Assault Vest set checking numerous troublesome flying and ice types.
 
Hello! It's been a clean 6 months since my last VR nom and I'd like to provide my unique perspective into the SM PU metagame.

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Daddy Kang
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(Also know as Kangaskhan in some circles) A- >A
Kangaskhan @ Life Orb
Ability: Scrappy
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Frustration
- Hammer Arm
- Sucker Punch

Here we have the perfect example of a mon that offers a diverse offensive toolkit without needing much support to cover its switch-ins. Kang hits just the right speed tier at base 90 and holds a respectable atk stat to revenge the ever prevalent base 80s + magmortar. It has sufficient bulk (105/80/80) to take a hit from most everything faster than it and kill outright afterwards. It has a suitable movepool that gives it extra coverage and wallbreaking potential (Facade, Hammer Arm, EQ). And on top of all this, it has multiple forms of priority that make it a godsend when dealing with frail offensive threats.

Let's break it down. There are mons in the tier that do enjoy switching into it. Regirock, shuckle, ferroseed, Carracosta, to a far lesser extent Palossand. But there's something that most of these mons have in common. To varying degrees, they're all pretty passive. Meaning, Kangaskhan can be paired fairly easily with bulkier partners to exploit and chip these switch-ins to create opportunities late game. For example, Kang+Ferroseed is a core that I have been testing a lot recently. Ferroseed switches into all of the aforementioned mons and is able to set hazards/leech seed on them. This concept, although not new, highlights what each mon wants from the other. Ferro wants free switches to set hazards, Kang wants chip on walls to secure KOs. This forces many walls to use recovery turns if they want to avoid 2HKOs next time they switch in and puts momentum on your side.

This is just one pairing that works well but there are certainly others that support Kang BO. Weezing and Clefairy each serve as defensive support options while mons like Gurdurr, CroTomb, Mesprit, and Eelektross serve as offensive partners that can either check fighting types, take hits from defensive kang checks, or pivot and provide momentum to support the BO playstyle.

In summary, the mon provides much needed speed control in a tier with huge jumps from bulky base ~80s to frail 110s/scarfers, has spammable STAB with useful coverage, has a very convenient pairing with many meta-relevant BO mons, and is efficient vs almost all playstyles (minus stall). For these reasons, I think it's warranted that Kangaskhan rises a sub rank.

Offensive Calcs
252 Atk Life Orb Kangaskhan Frustration vs. 60 HP / 0 Def Magmortar: 242-286 (79 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Kangaskhan Hammer Arm vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Stoutland: 250-294 (80.3 - 94.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Kangaskhan Frustration vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Mesprit: 153-181 (42 - 49.7%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock



252 Atk Life Orb Kangaskhan Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Primeape: 103-122 (38 - 45%)
252 Atk Life Orb Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Primeape: 60-71 (22.1 - 26.1%)
Fake Out + Sucker Punch= 60.1-71.1% to Primape

252 Atk Life Orb Kangaskhan Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lilligant: 87-103 (30.9 - 36.6%)
252 Atk Life Orb Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lilligant: 101-120 (35.9 - 42.7%)
Fake Out + Sucker Punch= 66.8-79.3% to Lilligant

252 Atk Life Orb Kangaskhan Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Pyroar: 90-107 (28.7 - 34.1%)
252 Atk Life Orb Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Pyroar: 104-123 (33.2 - 39.2%)
Fake Out + Sucker Punch= 61.9-73.3% to Pyroar

Defensive Calcs
252 Atk Life Orb Kangaskhan Frustration vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Weezing: 121-142 (36.2 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Kangaskhan Frustration vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 160-188 (37.5 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Kangaskhan Frustration vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Palossand: 118-140 (31.5 - 37.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Kangaskhan Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Regirock: 112-133 (30.7 - 36.5%) -- 51.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Kangaskhan Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Shuckle: 55-65 (22.5 - 26.6%) -- 27.5% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Kangaskhan Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Ferroseed: 117-140 (40 - 47.9%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Kangaskhan Hammer Arm vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Spiritomb: 159-187 (52.4 - 61.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
 
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Megazard

The Piranha Plant of Super Staff Bros
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PU Leader
So this update is gonna be really big. Aside from not updating for a while, the council has also been thinking about what to do about lower ranks for some time now. It's not that uncommon to see the opinion that everything below B- (or C+ or C depending on where you personally draw the line) is kinda trash and not a ton of attention has been payed to lower ranks. Ultimately what we did was voted on if/where we wanted to drop every single mon in C/C-/D to try to push the lower ranks down some more and make it easier to see where things need to go in the future. That should explain the mountain of changes here.
Shuckle ranked at C
Clefairy A to A+
Gurdurr A to A+
Aurorus A- to A
Stoutland B+ to A-
Raichu-Alola A- to B+
Shiftry B+ to B
Golurk B+ to B
Kabutops B+ to B
Throh B+ to B
Kingler B to B+
Crustle C to C+
Regice D to C
Silvally-Dragon UR to C

Claydol C+ to C
Sandslash C+ to C
Dusknoir C to C-
Gourgeist-Average C to Unranked
Gourgeist-Small C to D
Jumpluff C to C-
Komala C to C-
Meowstic-M C to D
Vigoroth C to C-
Zebstrika C to C-
Arbok C- to Unranked
Beheeyem C- to D
Chatot C- to D
Lycanroc-Midnight C- to D
Masquerain C- to D
Ninjask C- to D
Prinplup C- to D
Swoobat C- to D
Bibarel D to Unranked

Shuckle is a rather unimpressive mon, but it's still a fairly legit webs setter and the longevity is a nice mixup from the other webs setters we've had which are mostly in the "die early and hope you can stop removal" category. Most of the non-lower rank cleanup stuff was posted on at some point or another, but Raichu dropped because mostly because it's just not an excellent meta pick at the moment, it's frail and not super hard to check and fails to balance break nearly as well as it did when things like Scarf Togedemaru weren't as common. Stoutland rose because it's become a much stronger pick for a wallbreaker recently as you can see in exhibition usage, not to mention people have found out that Work Up Z-move sets aren't actually hot garbage so that's nice. The low ranks should all be fairly obvious, they mostly dropped because they're not terribly good mons with inflated rankings and if you want any specifics, just ask in the SQSA or on Discord.
Also I just want to reiterate that we do vote on everything brought up in the thread, things like Bouffalant and Gogoat not being ranked are wholly intentional. As for why those two weren't in particular, they're just still really bad picks and neither nomination was terribly convincing about their place in the metagame. Bouff is ridiculously outclassed and the nom didn't really touch on that, and Gogoat is cute on paper and can occasionally be annoying with the right matchup but it doesn't really stand out as any kind of serious choice due to how easily checked it is.
We're not done messing with the lower ranks by a long shot, especially since I swear this council is allergic to dropping things more than one rank x_x so feel free to nominate things in the lower ranks based on these changes as we're still going to be working to make the placings there as accurate as possible.
 
The VR is pretty accurate but i would like to propose a change.I believe kingler should move up from B+ to A-. Kingler is a very powerful pokemon that can smash through bulky teams with Swords Dance and its ability sheer force which gives its stab an 1.3 boost making liquidation a 153 base power move. Furthermore it packs agility which allows it to outspeed the likes of Swanna, Togedemaru, Pyroar, Archeops(assuming they are not scarfed) and many more and OHKO them. It can also pack choice scarf and have the element of surprise as not many people expect scarf on kingler. Lastly it has a good movepool with Superpower, Knock off, Rock slide, X-scissor and Stomping tantrum which allow it to beat many pokemon that stab liquidation does not like swanna, exeggutor, ferroseed, defensive togedemaru etc.
 
The VR is pretty accurate but i would like to propose a change.I believe kingler should move up from B+ to A-. Kingler is a very powerful pokemon that can smash through bulky teams with Swords Dance and its ability sheer force which gives its stab an 1.3 boost making liquidation a 153 base power move. Furthermore it packs agility which allows it to outspeed the likes of Swanna, Togedemaru, Pyroar, Archeops(assuming they are not scarfed) and many more and OHKO them. It can also pack choice scarf and have the element of surprise as not many people expect scarf on kingler. Lastly it has a good movepool with Superpower, Knock off, Rock slide, X-scissor and Stomping tantrum which allow it to beat many pokemon that stab liquidation does not like swanna, exeggutor, ferroseed, defensive togedemaru etc.
I agree with this nom, Kingler is absolutely terrifying to deal with. It has very few counters to it's normal agility set, but that set isn't even the only set Kingler can run. It can run sub DD, as you said scarf, DD, etc. and it also has a pretty flexible 4th slot, being able to fit TONS of other options into this 4th slot which allows you to get the other hand over the opponent. There are very few pokemon in the tier that resist both water and fighting, and only 1 of them in all of PU which also resists bug. I feel that kingler is a mon that should 100% rise to A-, it's just way too much of a threat in the current metagame for us to rank it in B+, honestly none of the pokemon in B+ have as much of presence as Kingler, it's as much of a threat as Stoutland is in the current metagame IMO. Honestly I feel like Kingler is just in such a good place because of all the special wallbreakers present in the PU metagame at the moment, several of them are also capable of luring in and KO'ing the few pokemon that actually threaten Kingler.

Edit: Also, I feel like the entirety of the VR needs to be cleaned up, a lot of the current rankings seem to be from a while ago, and don't really reflect the tier anymore.
megazard edit: we just did a large shift of the lower ranks, so actually posting on specific things that would need to change would be much more helpful. most ppl ive talked to have said the ranks are overall quite accurate so it's unclear what ur referring to.

Response: Good point, I could probably post a few noms tommorow, I should be more specific. Tbf I was referring to lower ranks, B and below mostly, which you also said needed a bit of a change.
 
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S -> A+

I'm sorry, but I really don't feel like the sky rat has any real reason for being in the same rank as Skunk and Mesprit. While it hits a (frankly stupid) speed tier in tandem with extreme power and has a really nice STAB in Acrobatics, I just don't really find myself struggling to check Archeops offensively or defensively with a team, even when not thinking about it while building.

To start, Defeatist makes it easy to handle offensively. Powerful priority such as Kangaskhan's Fake Out or Skuntank's Sucker Punch easily send it into Defeatist range while many currently popular Scarfers such as Togedemaru and Primeape can easily KO Archeops after little to no chip. It is very fast, but anything that can work around that speed can leave handle Archeops decently well.

Moving on, Archeops isn't particularly overbearing to check defensively either. Carracosta and Regirock laugh at anything Archeops can throw at them, Sableye can get off a wisp and render it useless for the rest of the match, and Ferro takes a few acrobatics and KOs with Gyro Ball+Iron Barbs chip. Taunt does make its defensive matchup more potent, but many physical walls can still comfortably handle it (there are workarounds such as Earth Power, but that just makes the offense matchup harder).

Lastly, it cannot switch into anything at all. Stealth Rock damage alongside whatever move it is trying to pivot into will undeniably throw it into defeatist range. Rocks in general make this bird's life very difficult and mandates Defog support, which isn't difficult to do but doesn't exactly scream "S tier pokemon" compared to Skuntank and Mesprit, which both function effectively in a wider range of scenarios and with less team support required.

Now, I'm not saying Archeops is bad. It's still one of the best offensive pokemon in the tier, but I haven't struggled with it any more than the other A+ offensive mons such as Jynx or Pyroar when it comes to checking it. Therefore, I believe it fits much better in A+ than S.
 
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yogi

Back off, I'll take you on
is a Community Contributoris a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

S -> A+

I'm sorry, but I really don't feel like the sky rat has any real reason for being in the same rank as Skunk and Mesprit. While it hits a (frankly stupid) speed tier in tandem with extreme power and has a really nice STAB in Acrobatics, I just don't really find myself struggling to check Archeops offensively or defensively with a team, even when not thinking about it while building.

To start, Defeatist makes it easy to handle offensively. Powerful priority such as Kangaskhan's Fake Out or Skuntank's Sucker Punch easily send it into Defeatist range while many currently popular Scarfers such as Togedemaru and Primeape can easily KO Archeops after little to no chip. It is very fast, but anything that can work around that speed can leave handle Archeops decently well.

Moving on, Archeops isn't particularly overbearing to check defensively either. Carracosta and Regirock laugh at anything Archeops can throw at them, Sableye can get off a wisp and render it useless for the rest of the match, and Ferro takes a few acrobatics and KOs with Gyro Ball+Iron Barbs chip. Taunt does make its defensive matchup more potent, but many physical walls can still comfortably handle it (there are workarounds such as Earth Power, but that just makes the offense matchup harder).

Lastly, it cannot switch into anything at all. Stealth Rock damage alongside whatever move it is trying to pivot into will undeniably throw it into defeatist range. Rocks in general make this bird's life very difficult and mandates Defog support, which isn't difficult to do but doesn't exactly scream "S tier pokemon" compared to Skuntank and Mesprit, which both function effectively in a wider range of scenarios and with less team support required.

Now, I'm not saying Archeops is bad. It's still one of the best offensive pokemon in the tier, but I haven't struggled with it any more than the other A+ offensive mons such as Jynx or Pyroar when it comes to checking it. Therefore, I believe it fits much better in A+ than S.
Okay sorry. I know I'm barely playing right now but I have to pull apart this argument because it does the same thing every argument for dropping Archeops does; not address all of its actual uses or utility and instead focuses on weak points that really aren't feasible if you pick them apart.
For starts you're going on about powerful priority. Skuntank, if Crunch, has to play a 50/50 around it using Roost or Earthquake, with the Poison Jab Pursuit set not even doing that. Kangaskhan also struggles versus it if it's at full or near as well darn it as, again, it must roll a dice as to what move it'll use.

Secondly, you say it isn't overbearing to check defensively when you name the two best Flying-type resists in tier then go on about two Pokemon which really don't like switching into it at all. Saying it "mandates" Defog support all the time is also very misleading as Taunt+Roost gives it many chances to keep itself healthy, along with offensive pressure also giving it the possibility to heal. You briefly mention Taunt but don't talk about how much pressure it can exert on standard checks. For example; if you Taunt any of the Stealth Rock setters that usually switch in against it, Regirock or Carracosta, then this is actually giving you momentum once you switch rather than detracting or giving them free turns to set-up.

No. It isn't as splashable as Mesprit or Skuntank whatsoever, but that doesn't detract from it being an extremely deadly Pokemon to play against. I also hate the "I haven't struggled against it..." mind-set, because you may build in such a way that doesn't give you trouble and not understand that other builds actually find this mon very threatening to play against. It is definitely better than all of A+ at this point in time, without a doubt.
 
B+ to A-
I agree with those people suggesting Kingler raising from B+ to A-, i mean, in the current meta he can face every physical wall. 130 base atk combined with sheer force isn't a joke, added to a good coverage and a decent speed you obtain one of the most dangerous pokémon in the tier. He even got 115 base def which allows him to take priorities in the face without any problems at all. Palossand and Ferroseed just get destroyed by liquidation and superpower, even Weezing and Gastrodon have difficulties to take more than 1 hit. And he's also very versatile resulting in a wide selection of sets and teams: he greatly fits as a choice user as well as a trick room abuser, and why not, even in rain teams just to boost his powerful stab.
PS: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-720954189 random demostration from a random match, once he takes Palo out Stoutland can spam free dmg
 
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I haven't done VR noms in a while so here's a thing I've been thinking of

Sableye: A- ->B+/B
This thing just isn't nearly as good anymore. I only very rarely see it and even when I do, it struggles to do much of anything. I don't know how much else I have to say about it only that it sucks as a defensive wall bc many physical mons like Archeops force it to recover or risk a Will-O-Wisp missing and there's also the prevalence of the two biggest Fire-types 1) running Taunt more often, and 2) running Z crystals, making Knock Off do even less. I just feel like current meta trends haven't been kind to it and it doesn't really deserve the same rank as Type: Null, Lanturn, Kangaskhan etc. I know there's talk of the meta changing substantially, but for now I think this drop would be deserved.
 
Some random noms:

Promotions:
C to C+/B-
I like Kadabra and i think he's a good revengekiller who can spam good dmg around thanks to his good coverage, spatk and speed, with counter he can be a bit problematic to pursuit and an unbreakable focus sash user is always nice.

C to C+
Is Komala that bad to be in C? There surely are better spinners but he's still pretty decent and other sets like CB last resort and AV all out attacker can cause some trouble around.

D to C+/B-
Ditto is a real life saver, he can stop statupper enemies and use their boosts as an advantage while working as a good revengekiller overall.

Drops:
A+ to A/A-
With her z-kiss set Jynx can be a huge treat sweeping teams like it's nothing, said that, why do i think she should drop? Her typing and the ridicolous physical bulkyness(65/35) makes her too weak to priorities: Quick Attack, Fake Out and Mach Punch are 2hko from everything(often ohko after SR) and Sucker Punch, Shadow Sneak, Accelerock and Bullet Punch just shot her without any mercy. Lovely Kiss itself can be unreliable at times with 75% accuracy and uneffectiveness against ghosts. Still a powerful pokémon, but not worth A+ imho.
A- to B+/B
I agree with Sergio, this thing can be pretty useful in some teams, but he's not that good overall, expecially considering the increasing firespam and prankster nerf, and hey...the most used fighting statupper got guts, so...:mehowth:
C- to D/Unranked
I think Noctowl is just like Pidgeot, a decent defogger per se but who simply can't stand the competition in PU, where even restricting to flying ones we find Articuno, Rotom-f and Swanna who completely outstand him.
 
Some random noms:

Promotions:
C to C+/B-
I like Kadabra and i think he's a good revengekiller who can spam good dmg around thanks to his good coverage, spatk and speed, with counter he can be a bit problematic to pursuit and an unbreakable focus sash user is always nice.

C to C+
Is Komala that bad to be in C? There surely are better spinners but he's still pretty decent and other sets like CB last resort and AV all out attacker can cause some trouble around.

D to C+/B-
Ditto is a real life saver, he can stop statupper enemies and use their boosts as an advantage while working as a good revengekiller overall.

Drops:
A+ to A/A-
With her z-kiss set Jynx can be a huge treat sweeping teams like it's nothing, said that, why do i think she should drop? Her typing and the ridicolous physical bulkyness(65/35) makes her too weak to priorities: Quick Attack, Fake Out and Mach Punch are 2hko from everything(often ohko after SR) and Sucker Punch, Shadow Sneak, Accelerock and Bullet Punch just shot her without any mercy. Lovely Kiss itself can be unreliable at times with 75% accuracy and uneffectiveness against ghosts. Still a powerful pokémon, but not worth A+ imho.
A- to B+/B
I agree with Sergio, this thing can be pretty useful in some teams, but he's not that good overall, expecially considering the increasing firespam and prankster nerf, and hey...the most used fighting statupper got guts, so...:mehowth:
C- to D/Unranked
I think Noctowl is just like Pidgeot, a decent defogger per se but who simply can't stand the competition in PU, where even restricting to flying ones we find Articuno, Rotom-f and Swanna who completely outstand him.
I agree with all of these except for Noctowl. Noctowl is ranked for its Specs set, not defog. It gained viability after it got Hurricane which it can use in conjunction with Tinted Lens making it a niche wallbreaker. So I’d say keep it where it it.
 
I agree with all of these except for Noctowl. Noctowl is ranked for its Specs set, not defog. It gained viability after it got Hurricane which it can use in conjunction with Tinted Lens making it a niche wallbreaker. So I’d say keep it where it it.
Noctowl is actually ranked for its work-up agility set, not specs. Also I disagree with most of these noms, especially Jynx as Lovely Kiss actually allows Jynx to beat sucker punch and other priority moves that OHKO such as accelrock are rarely seen.
 

Darkinium

the mighty nuaguunibi
is a Pre-Contributor
Kadabra from C to C+/B-: Disagree

Admittedly, this thing can fulfill its role as a revenge killer. However, I feel as though outside of said role, and even in it, it faces major competition from other Psychic-types such as Mesprit, and other revenge killers such as Primeape. From my past experiences with it I've often found Kadabra to be quite underwhelming, specifically in its struggles with power and coverage. In my opinion, it just doesn't hit hard enough, and needs coverage to do so. Except, it's so pressed for moveslots that it can't fit in everything it would like. Counter, Psychic, Psyshock, HP Fire, Energy Ball, the list goes on. Its speed tier falls just below stuff like Pyroar and Archeops, and extreme frailty makes it easily revenge killed itself. Other revenge killers such as Primeape bring so much more to the table: better offensive typings, ability to pivot, not reliant on a Focus Sash, etc.

Komala from C to C+: Disagree

I have honestly never found myself considering this thing, as an offensive Normal-type nor as a remover. As an offensive Normal-type there is little to no reason to use it over faster or stronger threats such as Stoutland and Zangoose, who don't need to struggle with 4MSS and poor speed and physical bulk. As a remover, it, in my opinion, will only ever find consideration on hazard-based teams, as on any other team there's even more competition from Defoggers such as Swanna. Even on hazard stack, there are still better options such as Hitmonchan who gives Komala a run for its money in the "special tank + removal" department, and most hazard stacking teams would much rather exert offensive pressure than waste a turn removing hazards. Also, the Sleep Talk + Last Resort set is a low ladder gimmock that is complete fodder for omnipresent Pokemon such as Oricorio-G and Ferroseed, and is still outclassed by the aforementioned Normal-type wallbreakers.

Ditto from D to C+/B-: Disagree

Similar case to Kadabra in that there are far better revenge killers who also have far more utility outside of simply revenge killing threats. Ditto is practically useless outside of revenge killing, being a momentum drain and very exploitable. Although this thing accomplishes its duty as a revenge killer, its lack of use elsewhere leaves it an inferior option to most teams.

Jynx from A+ to A/A-: Uncertain

Things have been rough for this Pokemon in recent times. Scarf Togedemaru and Spiritomb are two common hard-stops that have arrived since the SM to USUM metagame change. Powerful priority from Pokemon such as Hitmonchan, Kangaskhan and Lycanroc, as mentioned in the post, are things it despise as well. Despite this, Z-Lovely Kiss Jynx can be a hell to play around for teams without dedicated answers, and when behind a Sub it's practically gg. I'm leaning more on keeping this in A+, but it's admittedly not in the most solid position of the Pokemon of the same ranking.

Sableye from A- to B+/B: Agree

This thing is in a tough spot as well. It's a big momentum drain and practically invites our extremely threatening Fire-types in for free, only threatening them with a feeble Knock Off. This thing does accomplish its job as a physical wall, though, so I would just drop it down to B+. Its passiveness and draining of momentum just makes me feel it doesn't deserve its current spot.

Noctowl from C- to D/Unranked: Disagree

I don't think this thing's role was fully understood when nominated. It's not a defogger (although it could be as a side hustle on its Specs set.) It's really a wincon with Work Up + Agility, as the post above mentioned. I believe that that niche is solid enough to keep it its ranking in C-, as it is quite threatening once it has gotten a speed boost under its belt, due to its practically unresisted STABs thanks to Tinted Lens. Its Specs set isn't that great admittedly, due to competition from like wallbreakers, but that's really not where its potential lies.
 
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I'm sorry for Noctowl, i knew his defogger and specs sets where he is outclassed by the other birds, but i had no idea he was also used that way. :pikuh:
For the other ones i'm still the same mind, expecially because these are just minor ups and downs, Jynx going to A doesn't mean he's not good, it just makes a little gap between him and pokémons who are even better atm like Magmortar or Oricorio.
 

yogi

Back off, I'll take you on
is a Community Contributoris a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

D > Unranked

I know this is a small and pretty much unneeded nomination, but this thing still being ranked bothers me so much. It's absolutely useless at what it does and is almost certainly the worst Stealth Rock setter in the tier. Its niche of "Defog and Stealth Rock" is the most counterproductive niche I've ever seen, and is role compression done poorly. Not only does this niche mean that once it's fainted, and it will faint quickly, your team loses two crucial components, Stealth Rock setting and hazard removal, but it also means that you can set two turns earlier and Defog away your own Stealth Rocks which you quite literally set only a couple of turns ago. While its bulk isn't that bad, being neutral to every entry hazard along with being poisoned by Toxic Spikes means residual damage is a pain and limits any survivability it may have had. Prinplup also isn't a Fire-, Ice-, or Ground-type check, or a check to anything really, and is often a complete waste of a teamslot. It shouldn't be ranked and I've yet to see anyone use it to any measure of success.

Also this is my 1k so: s/o Dibs The Dreamer
 
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Taskr

Peng Ting
is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
PU Leader


UR -> C-/C

Sliggoo @ Eviolite
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 248 HP / 168 Def / 92 SpD
Careful Nature
- Outrage
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Curse


Sliggoo is perhaps the best switchin we have at the moment to fire types such as Magmortar and Pyroar, being able to wall pretty much all possible sets. Unlike Clefairy, Sliggoo isnt shut down by taunt since even unboosted Outrage is able to possibly 2HKO Magmortar whilst the best thing Mag can do is All-Out Pumelling for 35%.

  • 252+ SpA Magmortar All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 92+ SpD Eviolite Sliggoo: 112-132 (33 - 38.9%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO
  • 0 Atk Sliggoo Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Magmortar: 141-166 (48.4 - 57%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO
Sliggoo can also take on a couple of other threats in the PU metagame such as Swanna (SSSS does 35-40%), all variants of Lilligant and Floatzel. It might also be worth noting that Sap Sipper doesnt allow Ferroseed to Leech Seed on it for free as it can with some other bulky set-up sweepers like Type: Null and Musharna. Because it's unranked here is a replay of me using it in seasonal showing well it can take on Magmortar.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-728496420
 
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Darkinium

the mighty nuaguunibi
is a Pre-Contributor


Lycanroc-Midnight from D to UR

This Pokemon's only set has heavy competition, to the point where it's debatable if it has a niche at all. Really, the only set worth your time is its Choice Scarf set. So why is this ranked to begin with? Well, its Rock typing and coverage moves allow it to beat both certain faster Pokemon such as Archeops and Swanna, as well as hit certain switch-ins such as Ferroseed and Aggron. It also wields a fully accurate Stone Edge. However, this is far from unique: practically every single viable scarfer has a reliable STAB move, and a good amount are also capable of pivoting out of their answers via U-turn and the like. Its coverage moves are extremely exploitable and still leave it walled by common foes such as Gurdurr and Gastrodon. On top off all that, what does it even offer over other Choice Scarf users? It doesn't offer much in terms of actual speed, holding an awkward speed tier of 82, unlike competitors such as Togedemaru and Pyroar, skipping the 95 speed benchmark; it provides 0 utility compared to others such as Primeape, Mesprit, Swanna, and many more uncommon ones such as Skuntank who provide pivoting, Healing Wish, emergency removal, Memento, etc. ; Abomasnow, Aurorus, Kabutops, and Shiftry provide better weather matchups; the list goes on and on. It competes especially closely with Kabutops, who has similar typing and can pivot into the same threats as Lycanroc-Midnight such as Magmortar and Archeops. Quite frankly, I would never consider Lycanroc-Midnight on any of my teams due to the aforementioned reasons, and I believe that that is grounds for an unranking.
 

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