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Saw you guys talking about defense boosts so I thought I'd share my thoughts on the matter.
Defense boosting moves in BH are typically a waste of time and resources, getting those boosts don't apply pressure against the opponent since you aren't getting any stronger (unless you have stored power trip) and you aren't dealing any damage. BH also forces you to switch Pokémon out constantly making it difficult to keep those boosts, and if every time you come in you have to get boosts to do something then you're just going to give free turns for your opponent. If you can set up defensive boosts and keep them then you pretty much won anyway.
The only time I can think of defense boosts being useful are when you are using Contrary V-Create which helps you live against revenge killers but if there was a strong move that lowered speed and attack then it would be much better, the only reason V-Create gets away with it is because it's stupidly strong to begin with.
In Pokémon it's important to take as little damage as possible but that won't win you games because the goal is to take down your opponent's team. You shouldn't be counting on a single pokemon out-living everything.
All in all defense boosting move suck even without talking about anti-setup
There are quite a few sample teams you can try on the second post on this thread. If you look through the RMT Other Metas folder you can also find BH teams along with their elo peaks (which shows how reliable they are).
As for the sets, they certainly seem annoying, but can be easily beat by common sets. Pheromosa can be OHKO’d by -ate Extremespeed and walled by any Ground-type. If you want a setup sweeper that can make itself practically immune to attacks, you can try Normalize Gengar-Mega with Entrainment, Quiver Dance, (Spooky Plate) Judgement, and Boomburst. Since Normalize makes all attacks Normal type, giving it to the opponent makes you almost impossible to hit (besides Judgement, Multi-Attack, and Revelation Dance).
As for the Magikarp, it too is annoying, but is again easily beaten by priority, Grass types, Magic Bounce, Magic Guard and Dark types. For a pokemon that uses priority healing, you could instead use Triage Rayquaza-Mega with Oblivion Wing, Tail Glow, Moongeist Beam, and Spore.
There are quite a few sample teams you can try on the second post on this thread. If you look through the RMT Other Metas folder you can also find BH teams along with their elo peaks (which shows how reliable they are).
As for the sets, they certainly seem annoying, but can be easily beat by common sets. Pheromosa can be OHKO’d by -ate Extremespeed and walled by any Ground-type. If you want a setup sweeper that can make itself practically immune to attacks, you can try Normalize Gengar-Mega with Entrainment, Quiver Dance, (Spooky Plate) Judgement, and Boomburst. Since Normalize makes all attacks Normal type, giving it to the opponent makes you almost impossible to hit (besides Judgement, Multi-Attack, and Revelation Dance).
As for the Magikarp, it too is annoying, but is again easily beaten by priority, Grass types, Magic Bounce, Magic Guard and Dark types. For a pokemon that uses priority healing, you could instead use Triage Rayquaza-Mega with Oblivion Wing, Tail Glow, Moongeist Beam, and Spore.
If you want to use memish sets like those to more effectiveness, here's some quick suggestions off the top of my head. These might not be the best possible options for those concepts, but they're improvements that immediately came to mind. Still though, none of these are great sets, so probably don't want to use them for serious laddering.
As for team suggestions, Anaconja's suggestions work. Some of us also have RMT links in our signatures, like myself (though mine are outdated), so worth keeping an eye out. Watching tournament replays can also give you ideas for sets. Mind though, tournament settings are very different from ladder, so use caution if you outright copy.
Still not a great set, but at least it has STAB now. You can run Xurk or Amph for more power if you run speed boosting. Or change to Psychic attacks and Ytwo for more speed AND power. Thunderbolt is more consistent, but Electro Ball is fun if you can get speed boosts. King's Shield helps with priority. Ice Beam bops Ground, Grass, and Dragon types so the set is not walled, but set-up is there if you want it.
This is probably the best Lightning Rod abuser though and is a very classic set. Rather fast and self-Imposter proof, even if they hit you with Electrify. And still functions if it gets nailed by Normalize Gengar's Entrainment. You can run Motor Drive instead and put Tail Glow in the last slot. It's probably not great in the current meta, but it'll harass unprepared teams rather well.
Probably not the best FEAR set in BH, I've not sat down to think about it and these suggestions are off the top of my head, but still an improvement. Alolan Sandshrew is immune to stray Sand, Poison, and Hail damage, so it might be the best FEAR user. Although Celesteela or another Flying + Steel user might be arguably better due to Spike immunity. Feint has low power, but it shares priority with Extreme Speed and it bypasses Protect-esque moves, notably Spiky Shield. Knock Off removes Leftovers, but there's probably better options for the slot to be honest.
If you want to use memish sets like those to more effectiveness, here's some quick suggestions off the top of my head. These might not be the best possible options for those concepts, but they're improvements that immediately came to mind. Still though, none of these are great sets, so probably don't want to use them for serious laddering.
As for team suggestions, Anaconja's suggestions work. Some of us also have RMT links in our signatures, like myself (though mine are outdated), so worth keeping an eye out. Watching tournament replays can also give you ideas for sets. Mind though, tournament settings are very different from ladder, so use caution if you outright copy.
Still not a great set, but at least it has STAB now. You can run Xurk or Amph for more power if you run speed boosting. Or change to Psychic attacks and Ytwo for more speed AND power. Thunderbolt is more consistent, but Electro Ball is fun if you can get speed boosts. King's Shield helps with priority. Ice Beam bops Ground, Grass, and Dragon types so the set is not walled, but set-up is there if you want it.
This is probably the best Lightning Rod abuser though and is a very classic set. Rather fast and self-Imposter proof, even if they hit you with Electrify. And still functions if it gets nailed by Normalize Gengar's Entrainment. You can run Motor Drive instead and put Tail Glow in the last slot. It's probably not great in the current meta, but it'll harass unprepared teams rather well.
Probably not the best FEAR set in BH, I've not sat down to think about it and these suggestions are off the top of my head, but still an improvement. Alolan Sandshrew is immune to stray Sand, Poison, and Hail damage, so it might be the best FEAR user. Although Celesteela or another Flying + Steel user might be arguably better due to Spike immunity. Feint has low power, but it shares priority with Extreme Speed and it bypasses Protect-esque moves, notably Spiky Shield. Knock Off removes Leftovers, but there's probably better options for the slot to be honest.
It's an annoying set for sure, but Deoxys-s is so weak that it will probably die before it actually kills something because the flinch chance is only 41% with Skill Link and 5 hit moves. In addition, Deoxys-s's bulk is horrendous which leaves it open to Fakespeed and other priority. It has no move with which to hurt Sturdy Shedinja, and it also has no STAB move either so its attacks will tickel at best and bounce off at worst. Trying to abuse flinching is pretty ineffective in the meta, but you probably won't do much better than the following meme set:
Greninja-Ash @ King's Rock
Ability: Dazzling / Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Beat Up
- Steam Eruption
- Ice Beam / Water Shuriken
- Sunsteel Strike
The gimmick of the set, Beat Up, really only works early in the game when all 6 of your Pokemon are still alive since it takes into account only the living Pokemon when beating up. With 6 Pokemon unfainted you get a 47% chance of a flinch, and Greninja actually gets STAB on beat up so it can hit moderately hard. I recommend using Dazzling, which allows Greninja to soft-check mega Diancie. It is immune to Fake Out and Extreme Speed, is faster, and hits it with
252 SpA Greninja-Ash Steam Eruption vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Diancie-Mega: 302-356 (99.6 - 117.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
You can also decide to run Ice beam to similarly check a lot of Mega Rayquaza sets, include Fakespeed and Triage. Water Shuriken is another option for STAB but you should only use it against Supereffective targets because it's pitifully weak otherwise, too weak even for King's Rock flinches to save you. Steam Eruption is a strong neutral STAB, and with the added 10% flinch chance can help you hax out a KO with burns. Finally Sunsteel Strike hits Sturdy Shedinja and mega Diancie even harder. The only downside to this set as compared to Deoxys-S is that Greninja is slower than Mega Mewtwo-Y, Mega Beedrill, Mega Sceptile, and Deoxys-A, but in every other way it's better. It can actually do damage and pick up KOs.
Well. I did it. I made FUCKING WOBBUFFET viable in this crazy mixed up metagame.
Wobbuffet @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Bide
- Mean Look
- Amnesia
- Recover
Mean Look is to trap your opponent. You may not be able to use Shadow Tag, but that doesn't stop you from trapping! A combination of Fur Coat and Amnesia turns Wobbuffet into a proper Stone Wall, at a nice solid bulk of 190/118/118. And even if something manages to steal your buffs, not like you're gonna be doing much anyway. Then comes the real function of the set: Bide. Wobbuffet's main problem is that if an opponent uses something it didn't prepare for, it renders it useless. Bide runs off the thing's amazing HP and buffed up defenses and can counter regardless of move category AND it deals more damage due to taking place over two turns. When it hits, you Recover, Mean Look, and start the cycle anew. Just a funny little set.
Unfortunately, this is not a viable Wobbuffet set. Bide is a pretty terrible move that can be completely taken advantage of by the opponent once it sees you set it up. They can waste a couple turns by setting up or statusing you or whatever they want to do. Metal Burst does what you are thinking a little better and takes advantage of Wobbuffet's very low speed. It would be best to run a negative speed nature along with no IV or EV investment if you go this route.
Mean Look could work ok but this meta is filled with pivot moves like U-Turn, which hit Wobbuffet super effectively. Teams with defensive pivots can switch back and forth on this set and stall Mean Look's 8 PP quickly.
You might get lucky and trap a couple of mons every now and then, but this set is easily stalled out and pretty much rendered useless by most decent offensive and defensive sets in the game.
While Wobbuffet does have huge HP and low speed, a similar set to this that works much better is Fur Coat Chansey. Something like the set below is common and very good at being a mixed wall.
Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Heal Order
- Metal Burst
- U-turn
- Whirlwind / Topsy-Turvy
To really put things simply: Wobuffet will never be viable because Cresselia is a thing. Additionally, high HP with low defenses isn't very good normally (nor is the reverse) because wall-breakers will just have an easier time OHKOing. Chansey only gets away with it because of Eviolite + Fur Coat. Without either one of those, it starts to struggle against physical attacks.
I tried a set with Metal Burst, Leftovers, Amnesia, Fur Coat, Recover and Mean Look and by god it worked. The only real problem with the set is the fact that Metal Burst has below average PP.
Defensive Set 3: Swallow eliminates the stockpile bonus, so it's a one time thing.
Offensive set 1: it's slow, needs paralysis and Sticky Web support
Offensive set 2: Why dragon dance? The only time it's better than Shift Gear is in a pp stall situation. And even there, a specific oen, iirc from one team analysis.
Offensive set 3: ok, let's say that imposter does not go off. Substitute, for example. Why would you have useless moves?
Dialga @ Steelium Z
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe Sassy Nature
- Anchor Shot
- Core Enforcer
- Spectral Thief
- Recover
I was looking for something that can handle all of PH Kyogre, Xerneas, and Regigigas in one mon that isn't Toxic Orb Imposter. I remembered how Dialga can answer Regigigas and Kyogre with Magic Bounce, so I ran the calc a bit and found out that +SpD Dialga can handle Xerneas with Spectral Thief. Basically the defensive version of Doom Desire TG Dialga with Anchor Shot > Doom Desire to trap the PHer and Imposter and Spectral Thief to steal QD boosts. Steelium Z reduces Knock Off damage while Z-Anchor Shot still does a ton and can emergency kill Xerneas that have Earth Power. Sassy lets it tank +1 Moonblast and Magma Storm better.
+1 252+ SpA Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dialga: 186-219 (46 - 54.2%) -- 48.4% chance to 2HKO
+1 252+ SpA Xerneas Magma Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dialga: 130-154 (32.1 - 38.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after trapping damage
+1 252+ SpA Xerneas Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dialga: 236-278 (58.4 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Dialga Corkscrew Crash (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Xerneas: 404-476 (88.5 - 104.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Poison Heal
+1 252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dialga: 186-219 (46 - 54.2%) -- 51.6% chance to 2HKO
+1 252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dialga: 149-176 (36.8 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Scald vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dialga: 99-117 (24.5 - 28.9%) -- 99.5% chance to 4HKO
+1 252+ Atk Regigigas Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Dialga: 153-180 (37.8 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252+ Atk Regigigas Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Dialga: 96-113 (23.7 - 27.9%) -- 88.8% chance to 4HKO
Diancie-Mega @ Leftovers / Rindo Berry
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Boomburst
- Extreme Speed
- Rapid Spin
- Heal Order
I believe I was looking at the possible ways to clear hazards and I though -ate spin was pretty cool as its unblockable and has twice the pp of Defog. Went with Diancie as it isn't weak to rocks and has offensive presence along with an unblockable STAB compared to Zekrom. Heal Order gives Diancie longevity and allows it to consistently remove hazards and pressure the opponent. Leftovers negates chip without consuming Heal Order PP while Rindo Berry lets Diancie check Triage Ray in a pinch. It also works as a switch-in to Defensive mons like Giratina and Yveltal.
+3 252+ SpA Rayquaza-Mega Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Rindo Berry Diancie-Mega: 212-250 (69.7 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Spooky Plate Giratina Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252- Def Diancie-Mega: 121-144 (39.8 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Garchomp-Mega @ Toxic Orb
Abiliy: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Hammer
- Thousand Arrows
- Rapid Spin
- Will-O-Wisp
Again I was looking at a possible spinner with longevity and offensive presence. I wanted a mon that is capable of forcing out both Aegislash and Giratina. Mega Garchomp fit. For longevity I went with PH and dual STABs and Spin. Last slot is pretty customizable but I ran Wisp to cripple switch-ins. This was a pretty new set and I haven't tried it too much.
This set is relatively easy to use and tougher than average to counter. You Z-Convert to Ice for STAB on Ice Ball and boosted stats, Defense Curl, and then let em have it. End result: A move with over 1400 BP and running off of that gargantuan 181 Attack. Now, some of you may be thinking, "Ice is an odd choice to Z-Convert to for STAB." Well, while Ice has only one resistance, it has fewer WEAKNESSES than Z-Converting to a Rock type via Rollout, most of which were already Special moves, so Kartana would have had a very bad time as a Rock type. While Kartana still has its signature weakness to Fire, it's only a 2x weakness rather than a 4x one, and with the boosted Special Defense, it may have a chance of surviving a good Fire move. The other two are mostly physical weaknesses and due to that nice 131 Defense, it should be able to counter them. Recover is if you want to go for longevity, Shift Gear is for if you want to go very fast and hit very hard, and Coil is to counter the aforementioned physical weaknesses, hit harder, and make Ice Ball a move with perfect accuracy. Sturdy is for surviving the impending threat of a Fire move, while Beast Boost or Moxie is to hit even harder when it knocks out an opponent.
Beedrill-Mega @ Focus Sash
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Gunk Shot/Poison Jab
- Attack Order
- Megahorn
This one is about the same as Mega Beedrill's standard Adaptability boosted fare back in UU, but it has access much more potent moves and a Focus Sash for setting up Shift Gear safely, Gunk Shot and Megahorn are for if you want to play fast and loose, hitting right below Explosion at 240, but one miss and you're toasted, while Attack Order is for a very hard hitting 180 power Physical move. Poison Jab has less power, but still hits decently hard at 160. End result: A Pokemon that suffers from Poor, Predictable Rock, but is VERY good at using just STAB moves, can use them VERY hard, but will die horribly to a Rock Blast or if something just generally sneezes in its direction.
I'll be blunt with the first set: it's kinda unworkable. First, it needs multiple turns of set up. Z-Conversion + Defense Curl + possible Shift Coils + up to 5 turns of Ice Ball build-up means like... 5-10 turns before you're doing anything meaningful, which is a serious issue on a frailer threat like Kart. Second, it's hideously vulnerable to Haze, Spectral Thief, Topsy-Turvy, Heart Swap, or shuffling, which all break Z-Conversion and any other boosts you might try to accumulate. Fourth, any protect move shuts it down instantly. And fifth, you're locked into Ice Ball, which means if you've not cleared the playing field of all possible walls, they'll have plenty of time to swap in and shut you down. Plus, if you're going for a weird set like this, you might as well use STAB and bring Kyu-B so it's a lot harder to wall.
I mean, if you manage to get the stars to align to allow you to get max power, you'll score a KO. But Kartana has much faster and more efficient methods of doing that.
Meanwhile, the Beedrill set is much, much more workable and only needs a couple of tweaks. Use only Attack Order or Mega Horn, you don't need both, and run U-Turn or coverage in the other slot (ideally to hit Steels or Ghosts). Swap Shift Gear for Shell Smash. You're already a Sash on a frail Pokemon, so you might as well use the best boosting move for it if you're boosting to begin with.
I feel like I should chime in to give some additional insight into things here. I'll be quoting your stuff, BoltBurst. I'd like to give my opinions as I feel it would help you in your teambuilding.
Aggron-Mega @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Cosmic Power
- Gyro Ball
- Spectral Thief/Clear Smog/Topsy-Turvy
- Slack Off
This set is tailor made to wall almost anything you can throw at it except boosted Deoxys formes, which run rampant in the metagame due to their almost endless possibilities, and Pokemon with a very high amount of boosts. Cosmic Power is to increase its walling potential in conjunction with Fur Coat, reaching a whopping 4476 Defense (a feat only Fur Coat M-Steelix and Shuckle can also attest to, but M-Steelix has worse Attack and Speed, and Shuckle has low HP) and 1036 Special Defense at maximum buffs. There is always the possibility of some errant Deoxys-S or the like hitting you with a Spectral Thief, but that's what your own Spectral Thief is for, to grab the boosts back. Alternatively, you can slap them with a Clear Smog or Topsy-Turvy and punish them for stealing your boosts. Gyro Ball is for making use of that great Attack and low Speed to chip away at the opponent's health. Slack Off restores HP in case the opponent's dealing a bit too much scratch damage(which isn't likely, taking that potentially huge Defense into consideration, you'll be on the receiving end of less than 1% of your HP on average). As a bonus, it's immune to Toxic, but who uses that in BH, am I right?
One of the increasingly big issues with setup is that you want setup to be rewarding with the least amount of turns possible. This is why Shell Smash is considered to be overpowered by some. Cosmic Power has this issue, but it's not just how long it takes to set up, it's your susceptibility to Spectral Thief. You must always be wary of Spectral Thief in this metagame. It is super powerful due to it's side effect as well as being the best Physical Ghost-type move. Setting up may not help you much, and the issue with Mega Aggron is that it's particularly susceptible to Contrary even with Cosmic Power boosts. Overheat and Moongeist Beam threaten Mega Aggron due to it's mediocre Special Defense.
Another issue with Mega Aggron as Gurpreet pointed out... is that it does not threaten other Pokemon. Gyro Ball only has 8 PP, but another issue with Gyro Ball is that Pokemon in Balanced Hackmons very frequently run minimum Speed for Core Enforcer's secondary effect. It is not threatening to most walls whatsoever. Spectral Thief has more PP, but it should be more or less used as a support move rather than an offensive one unless your Pokemon is Ghost-type. Clear Smog cannot hit Steel-types which can set up, such as Kartana, Dusk Mane, and Dialga. While Steel-types do not directly threaten you, Kartana usually runs Fire Lash, Dusk Mane can run Earthquake or Precipice Blades, and Dialga can run Doom Desire with Steelworker or Tinted Lens which threatens you significantly if it has Tail Glow. Clear Smog does not do any notable damage on Mega Aggron either, so Haze is usually preferred. Topsy-Turvy is a good move, just know it can be Magic Bounced, although Magic Bounce setup is usually only seen on high ladder.
Also Toxic is used, but it's mainly Poison Fang which you need to watch out for. Poison Fang is weak, but it's not a Status move prone to being bounced back. Therefore it has some utility on very niche sets for Pokemon like Arceus.
Zygarde-Complete @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Fur Coat
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
- Cosmic Power
- Clear Smog
- Recover
- Thousand Arrows
This set, on the other hand, is made for more mixed purposes, with more emphasis on defense. Like with Aggron, Cosmic Power is to buff up your defenses and increase survivability against some errant Ice Beam or what have you. Thousand Arrows is for hitting those pesky Steel types and is Zygarde's go to move here. Clear Smog and Recover serve the same purpose as with Aggron.
Again, this Pokemon also has an issue with threatening opponents. If you cannot knock your opponents out, you are not threatening regardless of your bulk. Always keep this in mind when building a set. Bulk isn't everything, if you can't beat your opponent then they're winning the matchup. This Zygarde set largely poses the same issues as the Mega Aggron set.
Giratina-A @ Leftovers
Ability: Normalize
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 SpA
- Entrainment
- Stockpile
- Swallow
- Haze
This set is for walling under safe setup conditions. Entrainment in conjunction with Normalize is to completely nullify the attacks of the current Pokemon, a strategy used commonly in the tier by Mega Gengar. When the opponent switches out, you will have safely stockpiled enough so that when they hit you, it won't do that much, and when they chip at your health enough, you can safely Swallow, afflict them with Normalize, and restart the cycle. Now, Spectral Thief may seem like a problem here, as when an opponent steals your buffs and you Swallow, you still end up with 3 Defense and Special Defense debuffs. But this is what Haze is for, as it deletes your negative stat changes and renders the opponent's fancy new defensive buffs moot.
This set doesn't have any attacks. It's completely harmless. It can't trap so it can't PP Stall your opponent. It just does not do anything, and you risk your opponent setting up on you. I don't know what else to say. Worst case scenario, your opponent endlessly switches until you run out of Entrainment PP.
(Lunala) (F) @ Salac Berry
Ability: Simple
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow
- Spore
- Psychic
- Moongeist Beam
This set is for a good old rampage through the opposing team. You slap whatever's in front with a Spore, pull off one Tail Glow and carnage ensues. Lunala has great speed and Psychic + Ghost has great coverage. As a bonus, if something manages to bring you down to pinch HP, you can go faster due to that Salac Berry and Simple.
Photon Geyser is preferred over Psychic, or at the very least Psystrike. Psychic is only used on Sheer Force sets as Psychic is the strongest Psychic-type move boosted by Sheer Force as neither Photon Geyser nor Psystrike have secondary effects. Simple with Salac Berry doesn't seem like it gets much use. You can instead opt for Quiver Dance over Tail Glow as that gets you extra Speed. I like the idea of your set here, however I don't believe it pans out well in practice.
(Solgaleo) (M) @ Salac Berry
Ability: Simple
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Zen Headbutt
- Sunsteel Strike
- Bullet Punch
This set is the reverse of the Lunala set. You pull off a Simple-boosted Dragon Dance or two, then let em have it.
As another user has said, Dragon Dance is strictly inferior to Shift Gear. Photon Geyser is still preferred over Zen Headbutt. If you want to run a Physical setup version of Solgaleo (I recommend Dusk Mane over Solgaleo, it has more Attack), I recommend trying Bellyburden. Belly Drum, Sitrus Berry, Unburden, with your choice of moves, usually Belly Drum/Sunsteel Strike/Proton Geyser/Power Trip.
Blissey @ Quick Claw/Leppa Berry
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
- Tackle
- Disarming Voice
- Diamond Storm
- Steam Eruption
What else is there to say about this one, really? You turn into the opponent and copy their stats and buffs, flip their strategy on its head, and become unkillable due to your staggering HP. The Quick Claw is to guarantee you move faster than the copied foe at least some of the time and murder them with their own buffs. The moves are just placeholders, as you copy the foe's moves with Imposter. The Leppa Berry is to give you 25 PP rather than 20.
Even though move selection may seem pointless for Imposter, I must insist that you choose your moves carefully. You can Imposter-proof your own Pokemon using Blissey or preferably Chansey (Chansey is better than Blissey) as their tremendous HP and Special Defense allow them to wall Special Attacks very wall in part due to their great defensive Normal typing. You can use a recovery move, let's say Milk Drink, Anchor Shot to trap opposing Imposters, and two filler moves, I like Wish and Stealth Rock personally. The idea is that Imposter Chansey cannot transform into an already Transformed Pokemon, so you can Imposter-proof one of your strong Special Attackers by just switching in your own Chansey to wall it's attacks!
Also, I can't recommend Anchor Shot enough. Extremely underrated move. One of the defining ways to beat opposing Imposters is to trap them and stall for turns. They only have 20 PP across all moves, in 24 turns maximum their Imposter will end up fainting and your opponent can no longer harass or otherwise threaten your team with their Imposter.
This set is relatively easy to use and tougher than average to counter. You Z-Convert to Ice for STAB on Ice Ball and boosted stats, Defense Curl, and then let em have it. End result: A move with over 1400 BP and running off of that gargantuan 181 Attack. Now, some of you may be thinking, "Ice is an odd choice to Z-Convert to for STAB." Well, while Ice has only one resistance, it has fewer WEAKNESSES than Z-Converting to a Rock type via Rollout, most of which were already Special moves, so Kartana would have had a very bad time as a Rock type. While Kartana still has its signature weakness to Fire, it's only a 2x weakness rather than a 4x one, and with the boosted Special Defense, it may have a chance of surviving a good Fire move. The other two are mostly physical weaknesses and due to that nice 131 Defense, it should be able to counter them. Recover is if you want to go for longevity, Shift Gear is for if you want to go very fast and hit very hard, and Coil is to counter the aforementioned physical weaknesses, hit harder, and make Ice Ball a move with perfect accuracy. Sturdy is for surviving the impending threat of a Fire move, while Beast Boost or Moxie is to hit even harder when it knocks out an opponent.
Remember what I said about setup. You want it to be rewarding without taking tons of turns. Kartana is not particularly bulky by any means. Special Attacks can and will OHKO Kartana. Not only would setup be difficult, but also very tedious for quite little reward. Ice Ball is not going to be strong until the 3rd turn minimum. And that's assuming you will get three koes and not miss or otherwise get blocked by protecting moves. Oh yeah, also, King's Shield and Baneful Bunker immediately reset the base power of Ice Ball as well as reducing your attack or poisoning you (Conversion Kartana is not immune to Poison).
I wouldn't call it tough to counter either, as even at +1 Special Defense you must be constantly wary of being hit by strong attackers like Mega Mewtwo Y. I wouldn't be surprised if a Psycho Boost from Mega Mewtwo Y OHKOed you while you were Ice-type.
Beedrill-Mega @ Focus Sash
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Gunk Shot/Poison Jab
- Attack Order
- Megahorn
This one is about the same as Mega Beedrill's standard Adaptability boosted fare back in UU, but it has access much more potent moves and a Focus Sash for setting up Shift Gear safely, Gunk Shot and Megahorn are for if you want to play fast and loose, hitting right below Explosion at 240, but one miss and you're toasted, while Attack Order is for a very hard hitting 180 power Physical move. Poison Jab has less power, but still hits decently hard at 160. End result: A Pokemon that suffers from Poor, Predictable Rock, but is VERY good at using just STAB moves, can use them VERY hard, but will die horribly to a Rock Blast or if something just generally sneezes in its direction.
Personally I'd use Mega Beedrill with a Choice Band. It's far too frail to be a good setup sweeper. By the way, I'd remove the Poison STAB on Mega Beedrill and instead run Tough Claws. You can also troll -ates who try to beat you with priority moves by using Dazzling, if that's your thing. Poison-type moves are very mediocre in this metagame, and there's a reason Mega Gengar does not run Sludge Bomb on its sets. With that being said, you can run U-turn as the Bug-type STAB of choice. U-turn is strong and provides utility for the team while still threatening Mega Mewtwo Y. I recommend trying U-turn, Sunsteel Strike, Ice Hammer, and Close Combat as your move choices. This allows Mega Beedrill to be a terrifying Pokemon as it's really fast and hits surprisingly hard.
Well. I did it. I made FUCKING WOBBUFFET viable in this crazy mixed up metagame.
Wobbuffet @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Bide
- Mean Look
- Amnesia
- Recover
Mean Look is to trap your opponent. You may not be able to use Shadow Tag, but that doesn't stop you from trapping! A combination of Fur Coat and Amnesia turns Wobbuffet into a proper Stone Wall, at a nice solid bulk of 190/118/118. And even if something manages to steal your buffs, not like you're gonna be doing much anyway. Then comes the real function of the set: Bide. Wobbuffet's main problem is that if an opponent uses something it didn't prepare for, it renders it useless. Bide runs off the thing's amazing HP and buffed up defenses and can counter regardless of move category AND it deals more damage due to taking place over two turns. When it hits, you Recover, Mean Look, and start the cycle anew. Just a funny little set.
I think you overestimate the bulk of Wobbuffet. Even Cresselia isn't that great with Bide. The problem with Bide is that it takes too long to charge. Metal Burst is a move which gives immediate damage and can actually threaten opponents without making you helpless for three turns. Anchor Shot is preferred when trapping any Pokemon, however I must recommend that you use Anchor Shot against Imposter as trapping Imposter allows you to remove it from play. Using a trapping move for any other reason isn't a good idea.
I think you have good ideas that end up being bad in practice. It's better to have someone who makes unique sets than someone who doesn't contribute to the meta at all. Just remember what I've said. Make sure your Pokemon can actually threaten opponents with it's sets and make sure your setup is rewarding in fewer turns. There are always sets which you can optimize to make better. Quiver Dance is better than Salac Berry with Tail Glow. Things like that can help you improve as a teambuilder, and this is coming from someone who considers himself a very poor teambuilder.
By all means, please continue to share your sets and continue talking here. Not enough people do. One thing I must stress is that you should never be discouraged by what we say. We respond this way as we care about newcomers to the tier and we want to help you improve. I hope you enjoy your time battling in Balanced Hackmons!
I have a question is Slaking a good alternative for Regi?
They have no difference attack and speed wise, but Slaking's extra hp allows it to tank some hits regi normally can't
+2 252+ SpA Gengar-Mega Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Regigigas: 368-434 (86.7 - 102.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Gengar-Mega Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Slaking: 394-464 (78.1 - 92%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Without rocks slaking is guaranteed to live
If you're running spectral you can then ko M-gar and steal the boosts
Also can you just slap most regi sets on Slaking or are there specific moves it benefits from?
I have a question is Slaking a good alternative for Regi?
They have no difference attack and speed wise, but Slaking's extra hp allows it to tank some hits regi normally can't
+2 252+ SpA Gengar-Mega Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Regigigas: 368-434 (86.7 - 102.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Gengar-Mega Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Slaking: 394-464 (78.1 - 92%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Without rocks slaking is guaranteed to live
If you're running spectral you can then ko M-gar and steal the boosts
Also can you just slap most regi sets on Slaking or are there specific moves it benefits from?
While Slaking does have improved physical bulk which can obviously have advantages (not least of which are against imposter and against Regigigas) but it loses out on special bulk which has some downsides too. This is mainly important because PH Regigigas can be used as a soft check to many threats such as PH Xerneas and others who carry special moves.
+1 252+ SpA Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Regigigas: 190-225 (44.8 - 53%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
+1 252+ SpA Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Slaking: 265-313 (52.5 - 62.1%) -- 71.1% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 SpA Pixilate Diancie-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Slaking: 331-390 (65.6 - 77.3%)
252 SpA Pixilate Diancie-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Regigigas: 237-280 (55.8 - 66%)
While these both look pretty dire, it means that if you are using spore Regigigas will usually recover enough HP over the sleep turns to live another hit where Slaking would not and if you switch out the next turn you'll be at better health.
And of course there are other pokemon whose special moves would kill Slaking but not Regigigas in certain situations.
Now, that isn't to say that Slaking is useless: as you said the physical bulk helps sometimes and there are some pokemon like kartana and mmx where you live hits you wouldn't with regigigas:
252 Atk Mewtwo-Mega-X Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Slaking: 344-408 (68.2 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Mewtwo-Mega-X Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Slaking: 414-488 (82.1 - 96.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Mewtwo-Mega-X Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Regigigas: 390-458 (91.9 - 108%) -- 50% chance to OHKO (the weight is another plus)
252+ Atk Choice Band Steelworker Kartana Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Slaking: 409-483 (81.1 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Steelworker Kartana Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Regigigas: 384-454 (90.5 - 107%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
So overall I'd say choose which category of attack your team is most worried about or which specific pokemon you want to check (xern, diancie etc) or which pokemon you don' want to be checked by (mmx, kartana).
As for moves I'd probably recommend not using spectral thief on Slaking as it is mainly useful for checking Quiver Dance users such as Xerneas, but the two are so similar that anything I say for one and not the other is going to be a slight variation and nothing more.
Poison Heal is by far the best set for both imo and the only one I've used frequently enough and seen used enough to be confident when I say Regigigas does it better. There are some setup sets (such as simple smash) that aren't so well explored so maybe Slaking is as good or better for those. All in all if you use the "wrong" one the difference it makes is not going to be huge.
I have a question is Slaking a good alternative for Regi?
They have no difference attack and speed wise, but Slaking's extra hp allows it to tank some hits regi normally can't
+2 252+ SpA Gengar-Mega Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Regigigas: 368-434 (86.7 - 102.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Gengar-Mega Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Slaking: 394-464 (78.1 - 92%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Without rocks slaking is guaranteed to live
If you're running spectral you can then ko M-gar and steal the boosts
Also can you just slap most regi sets on Slaking or are there specific moves it benefits from?
Slaking is strictly used for it's better Physical bulk. In most scenarios, you'll want Regigigas. I'm honestly not even sure if Slaking is on the VRs and if it is on the VR, there's probably someone asking for it to be taken off. Slaking and Regigigas are more similar to one another than Solgaleo and Dusk Mane are. Regigigas has better Special bulk while Slaking has better Physical bulk, but Slaking has very poor Special bulk.
Unless you frequently find your Regigigas falling to Physical attacks, then stick with Regigigas. There's hardly any real niche Slaking carves itself, and even though it can survive a Low Kick from Mega Mewtwo X, most of the time you are going to want to switch out anyways as it's rare to be at full health when Mega Mewtwo X is up against your Slaking. And I feel like the lower Special Defense of Slaking is far more noticeable than the better Defense it has, and even then there's not much real difference unless you like to number crunch with damage calcs.
All in all, Slaking is hardly worth using over Regigigas. I wouldn't pay too much attention to it whatsoever. If you like it, by all means you can continue using it. I've rarely ever personally used Slaking mostly as I just don't have any reason to.
slaking is slashed alongside regigigas on the vr, it's probably safe to call it a viable alternative to regi.
anyway thanks for participating in the naganadel discussion guys. i tried one more set, adapt draco plate judgment/magma storm/encore/sludge bomb, but even with a broken set of moves it was still only average unfortunately. hopefully he'll get better moves next gen.
now today i have another more viable ultra beast, but this time the main point of this post isn't the mon itself, it's the set:
BIG BOOTY CELESTEELA (Celesteela) @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Sticky Hold
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Anchor Shot
- Sunsteel Strike / Entrainment / ?
- Shore Up
- Recycle
now you might be wondering what this set is even supposed to do. the answer is that it's a wincon. thanks to leppa berry + recycle's infinite pp, it effectively wins against any team that can't break it, and anchor shot means your opponent can't just switch stall between regen users because they have to use uturn pp.
celesteela is immune to most forms of chip damage and it walls pretty much all defensive mons, notably thousand waves zyg. sticky hold blocks all non mold breaker knock/trick. sunsteel flat out bops shed, entrainment means you need to hit him on the switch but you also beat ph regi which is ok.
i don't see this set doing that well on ladder unless stall gets popularized, but it might be a niche pick for tournaments. the best partner for it imo is regenvest giratina. what do you guys think?
Slaking is definitely a viable alternative to Regigigas, the fact that Slaking survives an unboosted Low Kick from Mmx isn't a small thing as it allows for it to stay in and continue its sweep in some cases instead of being forced out or if Slaking hasn't boosted yet it allows for it to stay in and click Spectral Thief to potentially OHKO if Mmx goes for Shell Smash whereas going for such a play on Regigigas is much more of a risk because of the fact that Low Kick can OHKO. Also keep in mind that the lower special bulk isn't really much of a factor if the Slaking has already set up since most of the time that means that those special moves wont be used on Slaking anyway as the special attackers are usually in range of getting outsped and KO'd. In fact, in the -ate matchup Slaking has the advantage over Regigigas after setting up because it takes less dmg from FakeSpeed. For these reasons, I think the decision for using Regigigas or Slaking in a team boils down to what you want the mon to be able to do rather than Slaking just being a worse Regigigas. For example, if the team needs a sweeper that isn't easily forced out offensively after setting up, Slaking is a better option whereas Regigigas is a mon better suited for setting up in front of a bigger number of mons. If the team is particularly Mmx weak (or just generally weaker to physical attackers), Slaking is probably a better choice whereas Regigigas is the better choice if the team is generally weaker to special threats.
Overlord (Arceus-Flying) @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Sticky Hold
EVs: 252 HP / 126 Def / 126 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heal Order
- Cosmic Power
- Spite
- Recycle
Arceus was chosen due to its lack of weaknesses. Now you might say "But they can't just switch out repeatedly." To which I say yes, yes they can. The idea was the rest of the team focused on things like getting hazards up and eliminating their ability to remove them, along with any Magic Guard users. Once Rocks were down for good, the only thing they could do is burn PP or switch for hazard damage. Unless they had double Regen, but that's always been really uncommon. I coulda ran Twaves, but this was a Spite gimmick team, so being optimal wasn't the goal.
I think the main tweak here to make would be to swap Spite or Cosmic Power with Anchor Shot. The damage you're doing doesn't matter much if you have infinite PP and they cannot KO you. Anyway, Arceus and Celesteela have both advantages and disadvantages, so you could argue for either way on them or for different mons like Giratina. Regardless, I think the optimal move choices for such a set would be...
No particular order on these slashes. Cosmic Power to make it difficult to wall break and, with this being a really slow set, you'll have plenty of time to use it a few times and it won't matter much if they steal or Haze the boost. Spite to speed up the PP stall, especially on critical moves like Shore Up or 8 PP nukes. Spectral Thief to prevent being set-up bait (Haze, Topsy, etc. work too). Refresh to clear status that makes stalling harder. Sleep Talk is iffy, but could be handy versus sleep spammy teams. You could probably run a lot of other options too, like Toxic, Leech Seed, etc. I think Sunsteel is a bit too specific and, doesn't remove Sashshedinja, and gets stalled by Recycle Sash Shed and Entrainment isn't great except vs Poison Heal (one Cosmic Power is the same or better than removing a 1.3 to 1.5 boost and can also be stacked.)
Either way, stuff like this is hard to use on ladder in my experience. It's hilarious when it works (had a game where my opponent was begging me to forfeit for over a hundred turns), but somewhat iffy.
BIG BOOTY CELESTEELA (Celesteela) @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Sticky Hold
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Anchor Shot
- Sunsteel Strike / Entrainment / ?
- Shore Up
- Recycle
now you might be wondering what this set is even supposed to do. the answer is that it's a wincon. thanks to leppa berry + recycle's infinite pp, it effectively wins against any team that can't break it, and anchor shot means your opponent can't just switch stall between regen users because they have to use uturn pp.
I like the idea but I feel like it has trouble contributing to the team in any significant matter until late game. The opponent can always switch in their wallbreakers should Celesteela come in. I feel like Poison Fang would not only help it serve a better niche against more offensive Pokemon switching in, but also help beat Shedinja just as the second moveslot would.
For example, if the team needs a sweeper that isn't easily forced out offensively after setting up, Slaking is a better option whereas Regigigas is a mon better suited for setting up in front of a bigger number of mons. If the team is particularly Mmx weak (or just generally weaker to physical attackers), Slaking is probably a better choice whereas Regigigas is the better choice if the team is generally weaker to special threats.
I feel like you've said it better than I have. Regigigas manages to have higher usage due to it being able to set up on more mons, and because of that it can fit on teams easier than Slaking can. I never intended to say Slaking was bad, rather that it was a specialized Pokemon that does things better against certain mons than Regigigas. I would still recommend newer players without experience with both to start out with Regigigas and then go to Slaking if they find theirselves needing to better check specific targets like Mega Mewtwo X.
with this set, Zygarde can phase and beat any giratina that doesn't have Spectral Thief or Magic Bounce and a boost-neutralising move such as Haze, Heart Swap, etc. Even if Giratina does steal the boosts it will be phased immediately afterwards anyways so you don't have to worry about it Baton Passing it to another mon. This set will never really sweep since Zygarde's attack is awful by BH standard however after a boost it can threaten the 2HKO on most offensive mons which is enough since Zygarde's bulk is simply incredible. This Zygarde is best paired with hazards to weaken the whole team via phasing and with another late game cleaner to sweep after everything has been weakened. Through the combination of Taunt and Dragon Tail most walls without Magic Bounce won't be able to deal with Zygarde.
Pretty Much every Giratina has Haze or Spectral Thief, And There are a lot of core enforcer Giratinas in the Metagame,
To beat Giratina, i suggest to use this Set:
Pretty Much every Giratina has Haze or Spectral Thief, And There are a lot of core enforcer Giratinas in the Metagame,
To beat Giratina, i suggest to use this Set:
This set can't touch Giratina unless it runs the third slashed move on your fourth slot. Even then, Draco Meteor coming from Arceus does not beat Giratina.
