Metagame LGPE OverUsed

[McCoolDude]

Some replays of it putting in work:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7letsgoou-836687409 (I misclicked turn 32 and the match overall is a bit haxy, but the results ended up being the same as I intended and it shows off Pidgeot late-game anyway)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7letsgoou-836694250 (late game sweep)

I just want to add one my more recent battles (with a new team) to show how incredible M-Pidgeot can really be. I don't usually play that aggressively with it (I got lucky with the rhydon flinchlock), but I really didn't have many paths to victory left. I needed to get rocks up to deal with Zapdos while still being above 50% for mew's psychic on the recharge.

Still, the steps were the same: I took out anything faster than it, got something to chip it (rocks), then came in on a pokemon that I knew would swap (mew doesn't have the bulk to stand up to M-Pidgeot), and finished two of the strongest mons in the OU with hyper beam. It's far from a meme set.

 

[Saldyjawn]

Hey guys loving your work, I saw somewhere that sinnoh Pokemon were coming to Pokemon go. Since Pokemon go can trade with lgpe, will lgpe get turned on it's head soon? Or should I save myself the theory crafting because lgpe won't allow sinnoh Pokemon from go?

 

[Vengeance417]

Hey guys loving your work, I saw somewhere that sinnoh Pokemon were coming to Pokemon go. Since Pokemon go can trade with lgpe, will lgpe get turned on it's head soon? Or should I save myself the theory crafting because lgpe won't allow sinnoh Pokemon from go?

LGPE only allow for Gen 1 Pokemon (except Mew), Alolan forms, Meltan, and Melmetal to come from GO, and Sinnoh Pokemon have already been in GO for a little while now.

 

[NiGHtsBeta09]

LGPE only allow for Gen 1 Pokemon (except Mew), Alolan forms, Meltan, and Melmetal to come from GO, and Sinnoh Pokemon have already been in GO for a little while now.

Is Mew non-transferable from Go? If so, there go my hopes of getting a better Nature on one... lol At least my Naive one isn't a horrible Nature to have.

 

[McCoolDude]

I tested more mons! See below for standouts. I'll leave out the mons I've used before - the team was Kingler/Flareon/Aerodactyl/Parasect/Jolteon/Primape. (I'll also toss in some of the mons I ran in other teams)

Team

Flareon
Ability: Flash Fire
Level: 50
Mild Nature
- Protect
- Fire Blast
- Flare Blitz
- Shadow Ball

This is the worst pokemon I have ever used. I've used victreebel. This is worse than victreebel. He's slow and frail - how is something both slow and frail? He doesn't make a good wisper, because he's so slow. He doesn't make a good counter to any common grass type, since they're faster. He carries the worst defensive typing in the OU. Because of his poor speed and defensive stats, I ran him as a mixed set. Fire blast OHKO'd melmetal after rocks, Flare blitz deals with M-venusaur better.


Parasect
Ability: Effect Spore
Level: 50
Brave Nature
- Spore
- Substitute
- Leech Life
- Leech Seed

This guy is so strong. You can spore something, substitute, then leech seed. It will almost certainly die. Sleep clause limits it from being godlike, but it's still very strong.


Aerodactyl @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Rock Head
Level: 50
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Crunch

People use this as a suicide lead pretty often, and it's just such a waste. M-Aero outspeeds the entire meta except M-Zam and can carry coverage against just about everything. If I had another rocker on my test team, I'd have used roost instead of rocks. As a late-game sweeper, it's unparalleled.


Victreebel
Ability: Chlorophyll
Level: 50
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leech Life
- Power Whip
- Substitute

SD + Leech Life is a nasty combo on anything I've run it on. This set also blocks leech seed, spore, and sleep powder. Power whip threatens every rocker - turn one you can either prevent rocks or pick off a pokemon. Poison jab is tempting to run, but there's basically nothing in the meta that it hits for super effective. The recovery from leech life is more useful, as it allows you to stall with substitute or just recover rocks damage after swaps.

Jynx
Ability: Oblivious
Level: 50
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lovely Kiss
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind


Set up moves, a great speed tier, sleep coverage, and great offensive STAB? Jynx is crazy underrated. Calm mind is really important for 1v1ing mew. Lovely kiss, then use the sleep turns for setup, then tear into it. It also allows jynx to eat m-zam's shadow ball.

 

[Xandois]

Do you think this can work?

Hypno
Modest nature

-Hypnosis
-Nasty Plot
-Dream Eater
-Psychic/Shadow Ball

 

[Vengeance417]

Is Mew non-transferable from Go? If so, there go my hopes of getting a better Nature on one... lol At least my Naive one isn't a horrible Nature to have.

Unfortunately, no. Mew cannot be transferred to Let's GO Pikachu/Eevee, which is a damn shame, if you ask me. It only makes it harder for players to obtain a Mew with a decently-competitive nature, and Game Freak wonders why people cheat when they put Mew behind what is essentially a 50 USD paywall that can't be soft-resetted. At least your Mew has a + Speed nature that doesn't lower your offenses, so you could run something like Superpower on it to hit Eevee-S if you wanted to.

Do you think this can work?

Hypno
Modest nature

-Hypnosis
-Nasty Plot
-Dream Eater
-Psychic/Shadow Ball

I don't think so, sadly. There's much better Psychic-types to use in OU than Hypno, including Alakazam, Mew, Starmie, Slowbro, etc. Hypno's already not that strong offensively to begin with, and to rely on a strategy using a 60% accurate move while using another move that requires the foe to be asleep is extremely sub-optimal. Plus, Mega Gyarados and Alolan Muk hard-wall this set. If you wanted to run a Sleep + boosting move mon, Jynx at least has Lovely Kiss which is more accurate, as well as Sleep Powder + Swords Dance Victreebel. However, both aren't that good in OU to begin with.

 

[McCoolDude]

Do you think this can work?

Hypno
Modest nature

-Hypnosis
-Nasty Plot
-Dream Eater
-Psychic/Shadow Ball

So mono attacks don't work on anything that doesn't rhyme with "Schmancey". They're simply too easy to hard wall, and a hard wall renders setup moves moot.

If your heart is set on Hypno, remember that everything works if you have the proper team and skill to make it work. My team, currently, is:

And it wins a fair amount of games in OU. I have another team that uses a mon similar to Hypno, too:

With mons that have poor stats, you really need to play to their strengths. For victreebel, his strength is a decent attack stat, leech seed and powder immunity, and access to swords dance. I play off those and use him

Hypno's access to nasty plot looks pretty useful, but his SpA stat, even at +2, is right around speedy M-Zam, but he's outsped by everything. In the same setup turn you use on Hypno, you could have a +1 SpA, +1 SpD M-Zam.

If I was trying to play him, I'd focus on him defensively - he has a decent SpD stat and some semblance of an HP stat. Because the rest of his stats are so bad, you'll probably need to embrace the risky plays. Only risky bets will pay off well enough to bother using with Hypno in OU.

That said, I'd use:

Hypno
Calm nature
Hypnosis
Calm mind
Psychic
Dazzling Gleam/Seismic Toss

You'd need to bring him in on a fighting move or non-STAB special move (like Starmie's Tbolt) and hypnosis the swap or the stay (hope they swap and the hypnosis lands). Calm mind on the first sleep turn and start swinging on the second. +1 psychic from hypno hits most things fairly hard (nothing to write home about, really). If A-Muk or M-Gyrados is on the team (and if they are, they're very likely already out to play with hypno), Dazzling gleam does more to M-Gyrados, Seismic Toss does more to A-Muk. Swap after the second sleep turn.


To support him, you desperately need rocks up. You can't spread status willy-nilly, because a status'd Muk or Gyrados can come in and eat Hypno. Ideally, both would be dead before Hypno came out.

The only real perk to this set is that at +1, hypno eats a shadow ball (after rocks and a little chip) and OHKO's M-Gengar after rocks.

That said, Hypno is one of the pokemon I won't touch, and I use Flareon.

 

[Number One]

No reason to run Ice beam + Psychic on jinx. Ice beam has great coverage and hits everything not poliwrath about the same.
Lovely kiss / Calm Mind / Ice Beam / Teleport Timid Nature

Jinx hits many things super effectively with ice beam, forcing a lot of switches. Sleep their Switch in, and Teleport out. Jinx cant kill most switch ins even when slept. CM is for late game when only soft checks are left

 

[19ecolem]

Best move set for blastoise?

Best movesets for articuno, exeggutor(regular), golduck, lickitung, machamp, dewgong, Persian, slowbro, lapras, hitmonchan, seaking, Taurus, omastar, raichu, golbat, Onix, wigglytuff, arbok, weezing, mr.mime, marowak(regular), dugtrio(regular), magneton, venomoth, raticate, farfetch, fearow, and porygon?

 

[Funbot28]

New video up discussing the current Lets Go OU meta with some council members!

 

[McCoolDude]

No reason to run Ice beam + Psychic on jinx. Ice beam has great coverage and hits everything not poliwrath about the same.
Lovely kiss / Calm Mind / Ice Beam / Teleport Timid Nature

Jinx hits many things super effectively with ice beam, forcing a lot of switches. Sleep their Switch in, and Teleport out. Jinx cant kill most switch ins even when slept. CM is for late game when only soft checks are left

Running only ice beam means Jynx is walled by cloyster (guaranteeing it a setup turn, where normally it's a guaranteed OHKO after rocks) and can't kill Gengar on the switch.

There may be value in replacing psychic, but I don't know if I'd ever run a negative priority move on something as frail as Jynx. If the opponent is asleep, a hard swap accomplishes the same thing. If they're awake, Jynx takes a hit on using it and is very likely taken into range of SR damage on the next swap (if not KOd outright).

 

[Number One]

Have you used Jynx with both sets?

People can switch to a mon for sleep fodder. Or sleep the thing you threaten out, and then switch to something like Melmetal or Dos who they cant afford to get slept. Teleport allows you to scout this; which is way better than beating cloyster.

In addition, when something is slept and you get to bring out jynx on nidos, rydon, venu, egg, drag, pidg, vict; Teleport allows you to scout what they will switch to that you wont be able to break past. This is very good with teams that have metal+Gdos or lax or muk. Try something out before commenting on how effective it is. Jynx is usable because Lovely kiss is overpowered and stab ice beam kills many things.

Psychic does not make it any more difficult to switch into than teleport and is therefore a worse option. Teleport helps to keep up momentum which is important for jynx, who's niche over mew and zam is forcing switches.

 

[McCoolDude]

Have you used Jynx with both sets?

People can switch to a mon for sleep fodder. Or sleep the thing you threaten out, and then switch to something like Melmetal or Dos who they cant afford to get slept. Teleport allows you to scout this; which is way better than beating cloyster.

In addition, when something is slept and you get to bring out jynx on nidos, rydon, venu, egg, drag, pidg, vict; Teleport allows you to scout what they will switch to that you wont be able to break past. This is very good with teams that have metal+Gdos or lax or muk. Try something out before commenting on how effective it is. Jynx is usable because Lovely kiss is overpowered and stab ice beam kills many things.

Psychic does not make it any more difficult to switch into than teleport and is therefore a worse option. Teleport helps to keep up momentum which is important for jynx, who's niche over mew and zam is forcing switches.

Scouting the swap is a good point - hadn't tried it. Usually the Jynx swap-in in the OU is pretty predictable, so I generally don't try to scout those plays. I also didn't comment on its effectiveness - I explained my reasoning for using psychic and why I was wary of using a negative priority on a frail pokemon.


It's definitely an interesting play, though.

 

[kantotrainer90]

I'm having some issues with this team:

M-Venusaur
Calm Nature
-Leech Seed
-Mega Drain
-Sleep Powder
-Sludge Bomb

Melmetal
Adamant Nature
-Rest
-Ice Punch
-Double Iron Bash
-Earthquake

A-Muk
Careful Nature
-Fire Punch
-Screech
-Toxic
-Crunch

Gyarados
Adamant Nature
-Thunderbolt
-Taunt
-Earthquake
-Waterfall

Rhydon
Adamant Nature
-Stealth Rock
-Rock Slide
-EQ
-Toxic

Cloyster
Naive Nature
-Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-Shell Smash
-Self Destruct

There's lots of T-bolts. Gengars. Even some Jolteons, is that making a play in OU somehow over Zapdos? The one I saw ran reflect.

 

[McCoolDude]

There's lots of T-bolts. Gengars. Even some Jolteons, is that making a play in OU somehow over Zapdos? The one I saw ran reflect.

That may have been my Jolteon - was it a team full of UU mons? I'm the only reflect Jolteon I've seen, and I specifically run that to make up for my team's general frail-ness. Definitely don't plan around seeing him much.

If you're having issues with Tbolt with a Rhydon on your team, I gotta wonder why you aren't swapping him in to eat them? Are you suiciding him at the start?

Try leading a counter to what you expect your opponent's lead will be, and save Rhydon for when they bring out something that can't deal with him - like Zapdos. Then you'll get rocks up without potentially losing Rhydon, and can save him to block predicted Thunderbolts.


Edit: since no one else has posted since me, I figure I'll add my most recent tested mons here.


Raichu
Ability: Static
Hasty/Timid Nature
- Thunder/Thunderbolt
- Encore
- Substitute
- Iron Tail/Toxic

Encore and substitute on a speedy pokemon is a pretty amazing combination. Raichu happens to be the second fastest pokemon that learns encore (the first being Alakazam, who has better moves to go in that slot anyway). He's also immune to thunder wave, and the mechanics of encore means that, once you're caught in it, you cannot get out unless you swap. You're doomed to repeat that move until Raichu allows you to stop. Combined with substitute, you can predict a status move and force a swap.

Thunder allows you to get decent damage on most things and has a huge chance to para. Thunderbolt allows for more consistent (but much lower) damage with a much smaller para chance. Iron tail chips Rhydon to the point that switch-in rock slide+stealth rocks+M-Aero's EQ kills him (M-Aero was my late game cleaner on this team). Toxic does the same, but it takes more time. It also allows Raichu to beat Chansey and Zapdos 1v1 if he can lock them into a healing move.

Hitmonchan
Ability: Keen Eye
Adamant Nature
- Agility
- Bulk Up/Coverage move/toxic
- Ice Punch
- Brick Break

This works... Kinda. I managed a few mini-sweeps with it. People don't really take it seriously, which allows it to set up nicely. I never managed to get both agility and bulk up going, but I also never used any of the other moves I slotted there.

 

[MikePX]

Hello !
Do you have any moveset and nature for M Pinsir et M Beedrill please ? :)

 

[19ecolem]

Best move set for blastoise?

Best movesets for articuno, exeggutor(regular), golduck, lickitung, machamp, dewgong, Persian, slowbro, lapras, hitmonchan, seaking, Taurus, omastar, raichu, golbat, Onix, wigglytuff, arbok, weezing, mr.mime, marowak(regular), dugtrio(regular), magneton, venomoth, raticate, farfetch, fearow, and porygon?

?

 

[oatslice]

I've been playing a ton of this meta (admittedly on cartridge), and I want to double down on how good Kingler is. It beats all the rockers in the tier, outspeeds everything after an agility and picks up KOs ridiculously early with crabhammer, as well as OHKOing MZam after rocks with X-Scissor.

I find Kingler works great with MBee too; people scramble to get up rocks, and Kingler gets a free agility+crabhammer on the switch. Good partners for this core are things like zapdos and starmie to help with gyara and melmetal, and careful a-muk is fantastic to stop MZam if you find you're unable to set up an agility.

Hello !
Do you have any moveset and nature for M Pinsir et M Beedrill please ? :)

I've been using jolly with u-turn/poison jab/drill run/outrage. Roost could be used instead of outrage if you're worried about rocks, and, while I haven't tried it, x-scissor could be used over poison jab or outrage if you'd like a second reliable option without switching, though I find poison jab is enough.

 

[April Behavior]

I've been playing a ton of this meta (admittedly on cartridge), and I want to double down on how good Kingler is. It beats all the rockers in the tier, outspeeds everything after an agility and picks up KOs ridiculously early with crabhammer, as well as OHKOing MZam after rocks with X-Scissor.

I find Kingler works great with MBee too; people scramble to get up rocks, and Kingler gets a free agility+crabhammer on the switch. Good partners for this core are things like zapdos and starmie to help with gyara and melmetal, and careful a-muk is fantastic to stop MZam if you find you're unable to set up an agility.

What nature are you running on Kingler?

 

[NiGHtsBeta09]

What nature are you running on Kingler?

Probably Adamant for maximum damage. An Adamant Kingler can outspeed a Timid Mega Alakazam after a single Agility.

 

[McCoolDude]

Probably Adamant for maximum damage. An Adamant Kingler can outspeed a Timid Mega Alakazam after a single Agility.

Seconding this. Adamant or Impish are the only two you should really use on Kingler. Impish if you're really worried about getting crit, Adamant to maximize damage. I've never had him OHKO'd by neutral damage, so adamant is what I run.

 

[oatslice]

What nature are you running on Kingler?

I've been running adamant. The extra power gets some KOs that impish/jolly wouldn't. Most notably, x-scissor is a guaranteed KO on MZam after rocks.

 

[McCoolDude]

I've posted about victreebel once before, but I've tinkered with his set and learned some more of the calcs.

Victreebel
Adamant/impish nature (impish lowers a melmetal OHKO from ~60% to 6%.)
Sucker punch
Swords dance
Power whip
Sleep powder

It's actually an extremely strong priority user that has access to a sleep move, a STAB base-120 move, and Swords Dance. In effect, it makes for a pokemon that can carve through a team and punish anyone who predicts incorrectly.

I don't have many replays of it being shut down (the times it happened were usually because I made a needlessly risky play). I do have some really cool sweeps (or semi-sweeps) with it. Even skilled players fall victim to it - once set up, killing it requires a correct prediction or a pokemon gets dented, KO'd, or slept.

Melmetal and Dragonite were the two things that could consistently check it, and power whip would even dent those pretty badly. If you see it in the wild, I'd recommend using Dragonite to check it - he can roost off the sucker punch damage and resists the power whip.

 

[SDarbzzz]

Spreadsheet of Speed Tiers
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CDSIS4e8b4MXUjHBEJEIfNnmg_F-jVnZf_RmcoOIzQk/edit?usp=sharing

Updated speed tier for 70 Happiness (ignore Mewtwo of course)

Tier 0 (Fastest to >+Spe Base 109)

290 Dodrio / 110 / +Spe / +2

256 Arcanine / 95 / +Spe / +2

246 Venomoth / 90 / +Spe / +2

234 Arcanine / 95 / Neutral / +2

204 Dragonite / 80 / Neutral / +2

200 Cloyster / 70 / +Spe / +2

190 Aerodactyl-Mega, Alakazam-Mega / 150 / +Spe / 0

184 Venomoth / 90 / +Spe / +1

179 Mewtwo-Mega-Y / 140 / +Spe / 0

173 Alakazam-Mega / 150 / Neutral / 0

168 Aerodactyl, Gengar-Mega, Mewtwo(+Mega-X) / 130 / +Spe / 0

166 Omastar / 55 / +Spe / +2

157 Alakazam, Pikachu-Starter / 120 / +Spe / 0

152 Omastar / 55 / Neutral / +2

150 Persian-Alola, Starmie / 115 / +Spe / 0

145 Dodrio, Gengar, Dugtrio-Alola, Raichu-Alola, Tauros / 110 / +Spe / 0

Tier 1 (+Spe Base 109 to >+Spe Base 76)

143 Ninetales-Alola / 109 / +Spe / 0

142 Alakazam, Pikachu-Starter / 120 / Neutral / 0

139 Rapidash / 105 / +Spe / 0

134 Charizard-Mega-X, Charizard-Mega-Y, Mew, Ninetales, Zapdos / 100 / +Spe / 0

128 Arcanine / 95 / +Spe / 0

123 Moltres, Venomoth / 90 / +Spe / 0

122 Mew / 100 / Neutral / 0

119 Hitmonlee / 87 / +Spe / 0

117 Articuno, Nidoking / 85 / +Spe / 0

117 Arcanine / 95 / Neutral / 0

113 Gyarados, Gyarados-Mega / 81 / +Spe / 0

112 Dragonite, Kabutops, Venusaur-Mega / 80 / +Spe / 0

109 Blastoise-Mega / 78 / +Spe / 0

108 Raticate-Alola / 77 / +Spe / 0

Tier 2 (+Spe Base 76 to >-Spe Base 78)

107 Nidoqueen / 76 / +Spe / 0

106 Eevee-Starter / 75 / +Spe / 0

103 Gyarados, Gyarados-Mega / 81 / Neutral / 0

102 Dragonite, Venusaur-Mega / 80 / Neutral / 0

100 Cloyster, Poliwrath / 70 / +Spe / 0

99 Blastoise-Mega / 78 / Neutral / 0

97 Nidoqueen / 76 / Neutral / 0

96 Eevee-Starter / 75 / Neutral / 0

94 Sandslash, Sandslash-Alola / 65 / +Spe / 0

91 Poliwrath / 70 / Neutral / 0

Tier 3 (-Spe Base 78 to everything slower)

89 Blastoise-Mega / 78 / -Spe / 0

86 Sandslash, Sandslash-Alola / 65 / Neutral / 0

83 Machamp, Omastar / 55 / +Spe / 0

81 Clefable / 60 / Neutral / 0

76 Machamp, Omastar / 55 / Neutral / 0

71 Chansey, Muk-Alola / 50 / Neutral / 0

66 Exeggutor-Alola, Golem / 45 / Neutral / 0

64 Muk-Alola / 50 / -Spe / 0

61 Rhydon / 40 / Neutral / 0

55 Melmetal / 34 / Neutral / 0

51 Slowbro-Mega / 30 / Neutral / 0