Claydol is far from BL. It was almost one of the first BL's called to be knocked down to UU.
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Aggron: Discussion
- Thread starter Yoko Rains
- Start date
What are you defining as Rhyperior's role?
*edit*
Oh and I'm with Forsety about Claydol's BL status as being very much under threat ...
No, actually Claydol is BorderLine, if you go see Smogon's Beta Site strategy Poke-Dex. Maybe other sites have him in UU, but not Smogon. Different site's tiers always contradict each other.
@ Shiny, well you can pretty much tell Rhyperior's role from his stats. He is meant to be a tank, dishes out some physical hits (aka STAB Earthquake), and able to take some physical hits.
@ Shiny, well you can pretty much tell Rhyperior's role from his stats. He is meant to be a tank, dishes out some physical hits (aka STAB Earthquake), and able to take some physical hits.
You do realise Smogon's list is extremely out of date? Mamoswine and Crobat isn't even BL as far as its concerned.
The list on the beta-site? How would it be out of date if the beta-site was only just recently made lol? And according to who is it out of date? Because all site's tiers are different.
Claydol got the vote to UU in the UU topic.
Anyway... there are far more powerful sweepers in UU than Aggron, while there are no real replacements for Rhyperior as far as brute strength. Rhyperior's earthquake is even stronger than Garchomp, and STAB quake/slide is just about the definition of brute strength.
Anyway... there are far more powerful sweepers in UU than Aggron, while there are no real replacements for Rhyperior as far as brute strength. Rhyperior's earthquake is even stronger than Garchomp, and STAB quake/slide is just about the definition of brute strength.
Smogon's Beta Site strategy is (hopefully) far from definitive as it is currently listing things like Jumpluff, Feraligatr, Ursaring, and Crobat as UU. If you want to argue that Claydol is more threatening to the UU metagame than any of them, be my guest ...
In which case you've just answered your own question ... Aggron simply cannot be the "Rhyperior of UU"
Aggron suffers a double weakness to the 2 most common physical attack types (ground/fighting), and the only physical attack types he takes better than anyone else (apart from Probopass and Bastiodon) is Flying, but as both Fearow and Dodrio are rare there is little need ...
Oh wow Forsety was right. Well why don't they update this on the beta-site? And is there a list of the real tiers now? It'd really be useful.
And Aggron is not meant to just be a sweeper. He is also meant to be a physical wall to a lower extent. You've got to admit, his stats are the most similar to Rhyperior than most Pokemon.
And Aggron has one of the highest attack stats in UU, you can't deny that.
@ Shiny, but there are some physical water/grass attacks as well. Leaf Blade, Wood Hammer, Aqua Tail, etc. Those moves are available to Pokemon with pretty good stats (Abomasnow, Torterra, Sceptile, Leafeon, Gyrados, Feraligatr). As I've said in my first post, even if Rhyperior's Solid Rock ability saves it from excessive damage, it won't be liking an Aqua Tail from Gyrados despite its monstrous Defense, nor a crit hit Leaf Blade from Leafeon.
And is there an - updated - list of tiers?
And Aggron is not meant to just be a sweeper. He is also meant to be a physical wall to a lower extent. You've got to admit, his stats are the most similar to Rhyperior than most Pokemon.
And Aggron has one of the highest attack stats in UU, you can't deny that.
@ Shiny, but there are some physical water/grass attacks as well. Leaf Blade, Wood Hammer, Aqua Tail, etc. Those moves are available to Pokemon with pretty good stats (Abomasnow, Torterra, Sceptile, Leafeon, Gyrados, Feraligatr). As I've said in my first post, even if Rhyperior's Solid Rock ability saves it from excessive damage, it won't be liking an Aqua Tail from Gyrados despite its monstrous Defense, nor a crit hit Leaf Blade from Leafeon.
And is there an - updated - list of tiers?
Thanks Dragontamer.
But why isn't UU a real tier? They have UU listed as a tier on the beta-site. I know its out-dated, but if UU doesn't technically "exist" on Smogon, why is it there lol? Just wondering, and thanks again for the list.
BTW, is Feraligatr and Typhlosion being considered to be moved into BL, moved down into UU or moved up into OU? I don't really understand =/
But why isn't UU a real tier? They have UU listed as a tier on the beta-site. I know its out-dated, but if UU doesn't technically "exist" on Smogon, why is it there lol? Just wondering, and thanks again for the list.
BTW, is Feraligatr and Typhlosion being considered to be moved into BL, moved down into UU or moved up into OU? I don't really understand =/
I mean that the discussion hasn't been settled yet. Not that it isn't "real", but that the fact that there hasn't been a concensus yet on what belongs in UU and BL.
There are some phyiscal water/grass attacks, but they are far fewer in number than fighting/ground, with only a small number of pokemon learning/able to utilize them, and who in all honesty is going to switch Ryhperior into, or leave it in against, a Grass/Water type?
No they don't have the same role.
Completely different attacking sets, completely different support pools, marginally different typing, one has a useful ability and the other doesn't, and of course being in different tiers.
Once you're done with the applause lights, it would be great if you actually researched, lurked, and learned about the game before posting (43 times a day).
Completely different attacking sets, completely different support pools, marginally different typing, one has a useful ability and the other doesn't, and of course being in different tiers.
Kingler, Flareon, Absol, Pinsir, Armaldo, Hitmonlee, Granbull, Sharpedo, Crawdaunt, Luxray, and Kabutops would like a word with you.
Once you're done with the applause lights, it would be great if you actually researched, lurked, and learned about the game before posting (43 times a day).
It has one of the highest attack stats. Base 110 is pretty high, you can't deny that. And many of the Pokemon you listed don't get a lot to play with/as much to play with. Flareon doesn't even get Flare Blitz unfortunately (even though I think it deserves it). Its best physical move is Flame Wheel/Fire Fang.
And I was asking if Aggron could play the same role as Rhyperior. No need to be so touchy about it dude. Thats why I asked people to post their opinions. =/
And I was asking if Aggron could play the same role as Rhyperior. No need to be so touchy about it dude. Thats why I asked people to post their opinions. =/
I really think Luxray and Flareon deserve Volt Tackle and Flare Blitz respectively.
Pinsir would be much better than Heracross, but unfortunately doesn't get STAB on Close Combat.
And even if Aggron doesn't have the highest attack stat (its still very high), he also has an awesome defense stat to back him up.
Pinsir would be much better than Heracross, but unfortunately doesn't get STAB on Close Combat.
And even if Aggron doesn't have the highest attack stat (its still very high), he also has an awesome defense stat to back him up.
It's obvious you don't play UU.
You wanted opinions, you got one. =/
His attack is irrelevant since he has a terrible movepool and his defense is irrelevant since he dies to nearly any EQ or CC or any special attack. His only real use is to come in on a predicted non-ground, non-fighting move (normal resist), and get a free Sub/Focus Punch off. This is nothing like Rhyperior.
Actually I don't just not play UU, I've barely played any battles period. I'm still trying to learn from practice battles/threads people have written.
And yeah, I got an opinion, just no need to sound so angry lol
EDIT (due to your edit lol): Rhyperior can't take special hits either. Even with Solid Rock, would he be capable of surviving the likes or Grass Knot, Leaf Storm, etc etc?
And how is his movepool "terrible"? I can see what you mean if you said he had a lacking movepool, but a terrible one? I mean, he has almost everything that Rhyperior gets.
And yeah, I got an opinion, just no need to sound so angry lol
EDIT (due to your edit lol): Rhyperior can't take special hits either. Even with Solid Rock, would he be capable of surviving the likes or Grass Knot, Leaf Storm, etc etc?
And how is his movepool "terrible"? I can see what you mean if you said he had a lacking movepool, but a terrible one? I mean, he has almost everything that Rhyperior gets.
Aggron can effectively wall several pokemon in UU, such as Swellow or Absol. Obviously things with fighting or ground attacks smash through it, as do special water attacks, but this does not make Aggron totally useless. High defense and attack means that it takes hits well and can hit back hard. Also it's one of the few dragon resists in UU, though a well predicted Hidden Power will kill it before it reaches SpecsAltaria. Overall, Aggron is a decent wall for specific threats, though not my personal choice.
Also, keep in mind that most of Aggron's weaknesses that really matter (x4) are all most of the time physical. Unless you're hit with a low accurate Focus Blast or a HP Fighting/Ground. That also makes a huge difference as well. As well as those major typing resistances. Just something to point out.
The difference between these two is that while both can pretty much laugh off Physical attacks to which they are 2x weak, Rhyperior's 4x weaks tend to lie more in the Special zone, which he isn't expected to deal with. Aggron, being 4x weak to Close Combat and Earthquake, can't perform the basic functions required of it. Plus, Rhyperior has Solid Rock, as well as sooooo much more attack, and better secondary STAB.
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It's just terrible to see these "discussions" which do not really add or define anything. People would have figured out if they could use Aggron as Rhyperior in UU a while ago if he was in fact so similar.
The numbers are damning. 110 compared to 140 is like 78 base compared to 100. That's like saying "Lopunny has ALMOST the same attack as Infernape."
180 base defense is amazing... until you see his 70 base HP. Coupled with the fact that his defense is useless in front of the MOST COMMON ATTACKING TYPES, BOTH PHYSICAL AND SPECIAL in the game, Aggron is not made to tank either.
He has a niche in being a great normal/flying resist. Past that, he is not very useful. Rhyperior on the other hand can actually break through the walls in his tier and has SD/Rock Polish to work off of, not to mention better defensive tiering thanks to his huge HP and Rock Solid.
I'm done with this shitty thread. :x
Yep gmax, I agree with you, and realize that, which is why I'm saying Aggron could somewhat do Rhyperiors job in UU. If I said OU, you have more right to call me crazy lol =D
And I mentioned in my first post about Rhyperior getting the awesome STAB EQ. The second strongest Earthquake in the whole game.
^ Thanks for sparing me of your presence =D
And I mentioned in my first post about Rhyperior getting the awesome STAB EQ. The second strongest Earthquake in the whole game.
^ Thanks for sparing me of your presence =D
Hmm...Aggron 121.92 112.14 125.59 117.82Rhyperior 121.78 114.36 125.45 119.77
Actually, as far as defense tiers go, aggron is better by .24 tiers. Translated to a more recognized form... that means, Aggron takes 2.3% less damage than Rhyperior does to similar attacks.