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Metagame National Dex Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter Jho
- Start date
- Status
Natdex is incorporating what was cut from Gen VII along with including what was added in Gen VIII, so they won't be cutting anything, just adding.
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Regigigas: Protect
It gets Protect?
everything does
I thought Regigigas missed out on Rest and Protect.
Regigigas did not have Protect and Rest in the past. However, the data from Home indicates that it does get them now. While I doubt it makes Regigigas an OU contender by any means, this means he does actually have tools now to be able to maaaybe survive the five turns of Slow Start in lower tiers (if they existed).
Words can’t describe how excited this makes me.
While the concept of a NatDex metagame in of itself is awesome, I feel like the mons that were excluded were kind of left by the wayside without anything new to mess with. But, these changes are huge and I absolutely adore the idea of how they can change the meta.
The things that most intrigue me personally are Latios, Lopunny, Zapdos, and Koko.
Not only gets a beefed up, more utilitarian variant of HP Fire, but gets the coverage move it so desperately has wanted for generations in Aura Sphere. It can finally both reliably combat the steels that wall its dual stabs and threaten potential Pursuit trappers in the meta, which is insanely powerful. I cannot wait to try running this with a Scarf or Specs.
Absolutely adore this mon, and I’m overjoyed it’s even better now. It gets both a pivoting option and more reliable Fighting STAB? This thing is already really nice, and now it’s even more consistent and even more flexible; it’s cool it also gets Play Rough now too. Gonna be a threat for sure, I feel.
Finally has the STAB move it should have had, and Weather Ball to back it. Rain Specs Zapdos bout to take lives.
Dear god, physical sets now rejoice as it has physical fairy STAB and an incredible coverage option in CC to punish what normally walls it. Needless to say, Koko is back with a vengeance.
Also I am interested in Bulu and Tornadus as well. Thank god Lando didn’t get Brave Bird; but, Torn with Nasty Plot to back its strength isn’t something to trifle with. Similar case with Bulu’s base 130 Attack boosted physical Fairy STAB.
God, this is gonna be fun.
While the concept of a NatDex metagame in of itself is awesome, I feel like the mons that were excluded were kind of left by the wayside without anything new to mess with. But, these changes are huge and I absolutely adore the idea of how they can change the meta.
The things that most intrigue me personally are Latios, Lopunny, Zapdos, and Koko.
Not only gets a beefed up, more utilitarian variant of HP Fire, but gets the coverage move it so desperately has wanted for generations in Aura Sphere. It can finally both reliably combat the steels that wall its dual stabs and threaten potential Pursuit trappers in the meta, which is insanely powerful. I cannot wait to try running this with a Scarf or Specs.
Absolutely adore this mon, and I’m overjoyed it’s even better now. It gets both a pivoting option and more reliable Fighting STAB? This thing is already really nice, and now it’s even more consistent and even more flexible; it’s cool it also gets Play Rough now too. Gonna be a threat for sure, I feel.
Finally has the STAB move it should have had, and Weather Ball to back it. Rain Specs Zapdos bout to take lives.
Dear god, physical sets now rejoice as it has physical fairy STAB and an incredible coverage option in CC to punish what normally walls it. Needless to say, Koko is back with a vengeance.
Also I am interested in Bulu and Tornadus as well. Thank god Lando didn’t get Brave Bird; but, Torn with Nasty Plot to back its strength isn’t something to trifle with. Similar case with Bulu’s base 130 Attack boosted physical Fairy STAB.
God, this is gonna be fun.
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wait lop gets play rough too
That it does. It also gets Mega Kick if you fancy a stronger option over Return, but... it's probably better just to stick with Return.wait lop gets play rough too
To prevent this from being a one-liner, I got a set in mind for Lopunny.
Lopunny-Mega @ Lopunnite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Close Combat
- Return
- Play Rough / Fake Out / Elemental Punch
I'm pretty sure this'll represent the standard. The first three go without saying, but the last slot I feel will be a lot more open ended. Play Rough if Dragons are an issue and you want something more powerful than Ice Punch, Fake Out for switch in priority, and Elemental Punches to cover a blind spot. It's also optional to run Power up punch over U-Turn if you aren't planning on switches, but U-Turn might be a lot more practical and an overall more flexible option.
Looks alright but Fake Out is a huge part of Mega Lop's niche right now and I don't think the new additions will change that...I lowkey think that U-turn should be slashed instead. Who would have thought that Lop of all things would be having severe 4MSS lmao
I concur with the Fake Out thing; I admittedly was kind of trying to figure out what should go where, because at the moment, especially with all these new toys it now has, it's incredibly hard to pin down what should go in those last two slots. U-Turn is amazing, but Fake Out is super important, and coverage is also a necessity in of itself for reasons I feel I don't need to address.
Ok, so here are some sets I kinda brainstormed off the top of my head regarding these new movepools and how exciting this is! :
Latias-Mega
Timid Nature
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
- Calm Mind
- Roost
- Stored Power
- Aura Sphere
While yes, Mega Latias is certainly not in a great place at all in the current meta, what with having major competition in Reuniclus as a Stored Power sweeper and many wallbreakers like Darm-G giving it a headache, it at least no longer has to choose between Thunderbolt for Greninja and Surf for Tyranitar due to Aura Sphere's decent coverage alongside Stored Power. It can also now run both Fire and Ground (HP Ground that is) coverage just like Latios and its Mega if you choose to run a more offensive set.
Tapu Koko @ Choice Band
Jolly Nature
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
- Wild Charge
- Play Rough
- Brave Bird/U-turn
- Close Combat
Woohoo, Koko's no longer in Heattom's shadow as a wallbreaker, being able to downright decimate anything that doesn't resist Electric and Fairy. Brave Bird hits insanely hard, doing a MINIMUM of 92% to SpD Bulu and Close Combat OHKOes SpD Ferrothorn after a bit of prior damage. Banded U-turn is always appreciated too. Of course, you might wanna run Roost over a coverage move since you're running two recoil moves, so you'll have to pick your poison as to what walls you that the rest of your team can handle.
Tornadus-Therian @ Flyinium Z/Fightinium Z
Timid Nature
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Hurricane
- Nasty Plot
- Focus Blast/U-turn/Knock Off
- Defog
Forget Zapdos getting Hurricane, Torn-T is going to be ridiculous with Nasty Plot, being able to wallbreak extremely efficiently for both rain and weatherless teams. +2 Z-Hurricane kills Gastrodon, Pex and Thorn without prior damage, and offensive Heatran and SpD Mantine after a bit of initial damage. Z-Focus Blast also kills Ferrothorn at +2 as well, while also yeeting Chansey at +4 93.8% of the time, although +2 is sufficient if Eviolite is removed. Then there's also the role compression by being able to Defog and pivot out while remaining somewhat healthy.
Of course, this is still speculation until unless the new moves are incorporated, but I tried to be as analytic as possible.
Latias-Mega
Timid Nature
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
- Calm Mind
- Roost
- Stored Power
- Aura Sphere
While yes, Mega Latias is certainly not in a great place at all in the current meta, what with having major competition in Reuniclus as a Stored Power sweeper and many wallbreakers like Darm-G giving it a headache, it at least no longer has to choose between Thunderbolt for Greninja and Surf for Tyranitar due to Aura Sphere's decent coverage alongside Stored Power. It can also now run both Fire and Ground (HP Ground that is) coverage just like Latios and its Mega if you choose to run a more offensive set.
Tapu Koko @ Choice Band
Jolly Nature
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
- Wild Charge
- Play Rough
- Brave Bird/U-turn
- Close Combat
Woohoo, Koko's no longer in Heattom's shadow as a wallbreaker, being able to downright decimate anything that doesn't resist Electric and Fairy. Brave Bird hits insanely hard, doing a MINIMUM of 92% to SpD Bulu and Close Combat OHKOes SpD Ferrothorn after a bit of prior damage. Banded U-turn is always appreciated too. Of course, you might wanna run Roost over a coverage move since you're running two recoil moves, so you'll have to pick your poison as to what walls you that the rest of your team can handle.
Tornadus-Therian @ Flyinium Z/Fightinium Z
Timid Nature
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Hurricane
- Nasty Plot
- Focus Blast/U-turn/Knock Off
- Defog
Forget Zapdos getting Hurricane, Torn-T is going to be ridiculous with Nasty Plot, being able to wallbreak extremely efficiently for both rain and weatherless teams. +2 Z-Hurricane kills Gastrodon, Pex and Thorn without prior damage, and offensive Heatran and SpD Mantine after a bit of initial damage. Z-Focus Blast also kills Ferrothorn at +2 as well, while also yeeting Chansey at +4 93.8% of the time, although +2 is sufficient if Eviolite is removed. Then there's also the role compression by being able to Defog and pivot out while remaining somewhat healthy.
Of course, this is still speculation until unless the new moves are incorporated, but I tried to be as analytic as possible.
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That got fixed, thankfully. It used to be like that but it isn't anymore
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
These seem really cool and all, but can any council members weigh in on whether they intend these moves to be implemented or not?
Funbot28
Banned deucer.
Yes they will be implemented. We still try to follow cart movesets as much as possible so these implementations will be incorporated.
With Regigigas getting Protect and Rest, it may not be a super offensive choice, as trying to burn 5 turns is pretty hard.
However, what if Regigigas was utilizes as a defensive Pokemon to disrupt defensive teams?
The main idea being that Regigigas will come in against a defensive team, absorb the weaker attacks like its nothing, absorb status with Rest, and then send back powerful Knock Offs and Returns.
However, what if Regigigas was utilizes as a defensive Pokemon to disrupt defensive teams?
The main idea being that Regigigas will come in against a defensive team, absorb the weaker attacks like its nothing, absorb status with Rest, and then send back powerful Knock Offs and Returns.
Do you have an estimate on when these changes will hit showdown? I know its a big project
I got a bunch of sets here for mons with updated movepools, along with descriptions for each. Feel free to read or use them.
Kingdra @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Surf
- Draco Meteor
- Hurricane
Wow, what an improvement. Hurricane folds Grass types much easier than Ice Beam ever did, getting much more key OHKOs and 2HKOs against things like Tapu Bulu, Tangrowth, Mega Venusaur, and Amoonguss. It also does only a bit less to a neutral target than a resisted Rain-boosted Hydro Pump, so that means even if Rain isn't up you can still get a decent hit against Ferrothorn and Tapu Fini, better than you ever could before. It also prevents Shedinja from walling you, bonus.
Swampert @ Swampertite
Ability: Damp
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall / Liquidation
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Bulk Up
Swampert would sometimes run Power-Up Punch to get an attack boost, giving it better breaking power, and Bulk Up accomplishes mostly the same thing, except it also gets a defense boost too, making it arguably better. The defense boost gives you a little bit more safety when setting up against something that can do a lot of damage to you. Swampert also gets Liquidation now which gives it a bit more power, but that flinch chance is pretty clutch so it's probably better to just run Waterfall.
Blacephalon @ Grassium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 232 HP / 4 Def / 20 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
- Flamethrower
- Solar Beam
Blacephalon finally has an option to hit Tyranitar with! Sort of. For reference: +1 20 SpA Blacephalon Bloom Doom (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 396-466 (98 - 115.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO. Also just generally blows away Water types. If you run this you can't slot Substitute though, which makes it a little hard to justify. It might also be better to run this with more Special Attack investment and fully commit to being a breaker. Either way, the option is now there, and anyone who switches in their Tyranitar on Blacephalon now has this to worry about in the back of their mind.
Aerodactyl @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Stone Edge
- Ice Fang
- Fire Fang
This actually seems good, the main issue is choosing which coverage moves to use since it's impossible to cover everything. I feel like Ice Fang is necessary, but the last move for Steel types can either be Fire Fang to cover most Steels, Earthquake to do more to Metagross and Aegislash but miss out on Ferrothorn while also hitting Heatran, or Crunch to do the most to Aegislash and Metagross, but then losing out on other Steels. You also got Aerial Ace which lets you always 2HKO phys def Tangrowth at least, but it's difficult to justify giving up anything else. I think this mon needs a lot of testing.
Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Hammer Arm / Bullet Punch
- Brutal Swing
- Ice Punch
I don't expect anyone to use this consistently, but it is something. Brutal Swing is pretty weak, even after a Tough Claws boost, but it does have one use, which is giving you a move to hit Aegislash with while also pressuring Slowbro to an extent, without spending two moveslots on a Ground move and Thunder Punch. It is a very weak move, missing out on the 2HKO on bulk invested Aegislash and only 3HKOing Slowbro at best, but with hazards up that could be enough to wear it down, and Thunder Punch doesn't really do much more to it anyways. Overall this is the nichest of niche options, and very bad.
Azumarill @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- High Horsepower
- Liquidation / Knock Off
One of the biggest factors leading to the decline of Choice Band Azumarill was its inability to adequately beat Toxapex, as even specially defensive variants could stomach a Knock Off then wall it. As a result CB Azumarill was basically replaced by CB Crawdaunt in gen 7. High Horsepower changes that by letting Azumarill actually 2HKO Toxapex very easily on the switch in. It also gives it a decent neutral move to use against Ferrothorn. This added move basically makes Banded Azumarill unwallable again. It's still a little difficult to justify using it over Crawdaunt though, who doesn't need to lock into an unsavory move to 2HKO Toxapex and does do a lot more to Ferrothorn, but Azumarill does have usable bulk and some defensive qualities over Crawdaunt, so it might be worth looking into again. High Horsepower doesn't really change anything for Belly Drum variants btw, since it basically gets all the same or worse OHKOs Knock Off does at +6.
Tapu Lele @ Choice Specs
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Future Sight
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Tapu Lele got a fun new toy in Future Sight. From a Specs set this can do a ton of damage and force the opponent into some unsavory situations. Future Sight in Psychic Terrain from Modest Specs does like 42% to Chansey for reference, meaning it does an insane amount to basically any non-dark type. This set just seems like so much fun.
Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Flyinium Z / Fightinium Z
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast / U-turn
- U-turn / Defog
NP improves this guy a lot. Tornadus-Therian can now be quite the scary breaker against balanced sorts of teams, as +2 Supersonic Skystrike is doing loads to everything besides Chansey really. Fightinium Z sets are still an option too, giving you much more conisistency against Tyranitar, Chansey, Magearna, etc. You can run more or less utility moves on this set too. Not much more to say that hasn't already been said.
Magearna @ Electrium Z
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Agility
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
Agility is basically just better than Shift Gear cause it doesn't raise your Foul Play or confusion damage, simple as. Also if a Ditto copies you and runs out of moves its Struggles won't hurt as much. Only reasons I could see for running Shift Gear are: you want to bluff a set with physical moves (why), you actually ARE running physical moves (why), you're running Stored Power (ok), you have Steelium Z and want the option of going for Z-Shift Gear (why), or you want to BLUFF having Steelium Z (super why). Shift Gear might actually be worth it for the bluffs, up to you.
Magearna @ Choice Specs
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fleur Cannon
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Trick
Specs Magearna never really caught on before, but it might be a bit more usable now with Trick. Chansey, who was once a guaranteed switch-in, now needs to worry about being saddled with a hindering item, as does Toxapex. You can also steal the AV from opposing Magearna and sort of flip the matchup a bit. Regardless this definitely won't be a main Magearna set, but might be a little better?
Diancie @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Diamond Storm
- Moonblast
- Mystical Fire / Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
Diancie got some nice buffs. Play Rough is cool if you want to use a set with a more physical focus, but overall it doesn't really hit key targets as hard as Moonblast does. Mystical Fire is a strict upgrade over HP Fire. Diancie also got Body Press which is neat. Historically Chansey has been one of the best stops to Mega Diancie cause it can sort of just stall it out of Diamond Storm PP, which is why things like Endeavor Mega Diancie became a thing (although Chansey could PP stall Endeavor sometimes too). But now if you want to beat Chansey you can also run Body Press. If you get a Defense boost with Diamond Storm, then Body Press becomes able to 2HKO Chansey, letting you pressure it.
Slowbro @ Leftovers / Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Slack Off
- Scald
- Psychic / Ice Beam
- Nasty Plot
Buckle in, Slowbro got a lot of cool new stuff. This set is pretty similar to just a regular defensive Slowbro with CM, but Nasty Plot gives it a little bit more oomph after a boost. This is similar to how Slowking historically has run both bulky NP and bulky CM sets in lower tiers. You could probably engineer the EV spread to survive something specific and OHKO back at +2. Z-moves are also an option too, I know Slowking used to run those. OTR with NP might even be an option too, although it seems even more fringe than this set is.
Slowbro @ Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Slack Off
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
Pls no toxic. It seems a little difficult to justify using this over Reuniclus, but Mega Slowbro has better stats and defensive typing tbh. Scald lets it potentially burn a physical attacker too, making breaking through Slowbro much more difficult. The EVs let you outspeed Toxapex and hit it before it can Haze or Toxic you. Having Stored Power means that Unaware can't really stand in your way any more... until you get Toxic'd. It might be better to run Rest on this set too, but then that makes you less effective against anything that actually does damage.
Slowbro @ Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Slack Off
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Body Press
Tank sets like this one have the option of running Body Press now. Once mega'd, this chunks Ferrothorn quite nicely, 2HKOs Chansey more than half the time, and OHKOs any Greninja foolish enough to switch in. It also lets you OHKO Tyranitar, Crawdaunt, and Bisharp who you can generally take one unboosted hit from. You also 3HKO Dracovish and generally do more to Rotom-W too. It lets you break Suicune Subs and hits most of the water-immune Pokemon harder too. So yeah, there are a ton of benefits to running Body Press. I think Mega Slowbro is one of the mons who benefits the most from the addition of Body Press to their movepool.
Slowbro @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic Terrain
- Teleport
- Scald
- Slack Off / Ice Beam / Psychic
Wow, Slowbro sure got a lot, didn't it? This set is pretty gimmicky, but the idea is to act as a supporter for a teammate by setting up Psychic Terrain. Although it doesn't set it up automatically like Tapu Lele does, Slowbro has recovery and Regenerator as well as nice bulk, and can bring the teammate in safely with Teleport. This could pair up well with something like NP Alakazam or Zen Headbutt Mega Metagross.
Zapdos @ Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
Ability: Pressure / Static
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Thunderbolt / Thunder
- Volt Switch
- Heat Wave / Hidden Power [Ice]
A great breaker with Hurricane, and difficult to switch in on. Alternately a good scarfer who can get momentum with Volt Switch. Hurricane is very strong and can 2HKO Zygarde and Excadrill, and also can chunk even resists like Mega Metagross and Aegislash really well. If you are using this in rain, Weather Ball is usable over Heat Wave, but it's almost unnecessary as Electric / Flying gets really good coverage anyways. Hits Rotom-H and Heatran at least. HP Ice is probably better so that you can pressure Zygarde more effectively, or even U-Turn, so you can gain momentum safely if they have a Ground type.
Latios (M) @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Roost
- Psychic
- Earthquake / Aura Sphere
- Mystical Fire / Ice Beam / Draco Meteor
Pretty standard Mega Latios with Mystical Fire. You could run Aura Sphere on this too, but it does less to Heatran in exchange to doing being able to 2HKO Tyranitar. Mystical Fire is pretty nice, not only for covering Mega Scizor, Corviknight, and Ferrothorn, but also for weakening opposing switch-ins like Clefable and Tapu Fini, letting you pivot out of them more effectively. Watch out for Serperior though, it will live Mystical Fire and get a boost from it. Bisharp can get a boost from it too but it often just gets OHKO'd by it. Ice Beam or Draco Meteor are still really good too what with all the Zygarde.
Latias (F) @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Mystical Fire
- Ice Beam / Breaking Swipe
- Thunderbolt / Psychic
Here's an example of a set Latias could use that makes use of Mystical Fire. Kind of a utility attacker. Fire / Ice / Electric coverage is pretty good, and Mystical Fire is a nice move to sort of just throw out, as it weakens incoming switch-ins like opposing Latis, Clefable, Tapus, letting you handle them easier. It can even be used to curtail opposing setup moves like Calm Mind or Quiver Dance, although not forever, as it only has 16 PP. I also slashed Breaking Swipe, a new physical Dragon move that's pretty weak, but it lowers the Attack stat too. With these two moves you can lower the offensive stats of whatever you're faced off against, letting you handle them a lot easier. Breaking Swipe is probably pretty bad though, but the meme of being able to lower both offenses is tempting.
Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet / Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
- Body Press
Skarmory itself is kinda mediocre, but Body Press isn't a bad option if you want to use an attack on your Skarmory set. This lets it take a decent chunk out of Steel types like Kartana, Mega Metagross, Corviknight, Bisharp, and Ferrothorn, and also does a lot to things that would like to switch in on it like Heatran and Magnezone. Skarmory gets a lot out of Body Press's coverage, it's a pretty good improvement.
Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out / Quick Attack
- Close Combat
- Frustration
- U-turn / Quick Attack
Lots of people have taken notice of Mega Lopunny. I think its main set will basically be this, taking advantage of its newfound pivoting ability while still not giving up the ability to chip foes with priority. I don't think this thing should ever really run Play Rough, it seems like a wasted slot to me. Even when it's super effective, it only matches damage with a neutral STAB CC, and Lopunny's neutral coverage is already basically perfect. It only really hits Kommo-o and nothing else.
Alakazam @ Alakazite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
I actually don't think this is a huge improvement, but it is nice to have. Alakazam can only really set up on predicted switches, and unlike Calm Mind, using Nasty Plot doesn't actually let it survive anything, making it even more difficult to use. If you can get the Nasty Plot off hoo boy you become powerful. +2 Focus Blast easily 2HKOs Chansey, and if you run Modest you actually have a good chance of 2HKOing AV Magearna after rocks too.
Tapu Koko @ Choice Band
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Close Combat
- Play Rough
- Wild Charge
I don't think Tapu Koko is gonna make a big comeback or anything like that, but it might be able to cut a niche finally. Play Rough + Wild Charge has some nice neutral coverage that Close Combat rounds out well, resulting in it being a little taxing to switch into. U-turn lets it get momentum and chunk phys def Tangrowth well enough. On its own this set is weak and not too threatening, but if Tapu Koko is to rise into relevance it won't be on the basis of this set alone; it still has all its special options, and the fact that it could be any variant of a physical, special, or mixed set makes it all the more threatening.
Tapu Bulu @ Choice Band
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 84 HP / 248 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Horn Leech
- Close Combat
- Darkest Lariat / Play Rough
Tapu Bulu got a lot of nice new options. Close Combat basically replaces Superpower, but Tapu Bulu also gained some new coverage options in Darkest Lariat and High Horsepower, as well as Fairy STAB in Play Rough. Of these I think Darkest Lariat is one of the better options you can run, as it hits most of the resists to Grass and Fighting neutrally at worst; more specifically, it is super effective against Aegislash, Blacephalon, Shedinja, Lati@s, and Dragapult, generally does more to Mega Metagross and Jirachi, and also hits Tornadus-T, Mega Charizard-Y, Zapdos, Amoonguss, Mega Venusaur, and Volcarona neutrally at least. High Horsepower, I wouldn't consider using, as it is basically the same or worse than Darkest Lariat against most things, with Mega Mawile and Magearna being the main exception. Play Rough is definitely an option though, it really reinforces your ability to check Zygarde and other Dragon types, hits flying types like Tornadus and Zapdos quite hard, and it also does more to opposing Grass types like Tangrowth and opposing Tapu Bulu.
Heracross @ Heracronite
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spikes
- Close Combat
- Rock Blast
- Swords Dance / Pin Missile
Heracross doesn't seem like that great of a Spikes setter tbh, just because it's so hard to switch into. It can almost always get something out of the turn by going for an attack, and because of that it might be harder to justify clicking Spikes. The fact that it's so hard to switch into might mean that people will just be more inclined to stay in and sack something against Heracross, meaning you won't get as many free turns to just go for Spikes. Landorus-T, which is one of the better switch-ins, can easily Defog the Spikes too if it carries it. It just seems difficult to use.
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 244 SpD / 20 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- Earthquake
- Power Whip
Whipscor. This set is pretty bad but running Power Whip does offer a few advantages. It lets you 2HKO basically every water type at +2, letting you beat down Slowbro and Rotom-W before they can beat you down. It lets you get a bigger hit on Hippowdon before it Whirlwinds you out, and it also lets you defeat Quagsire, although Quagsire generally can't do much to you anyways. Overall this is definitely a meme option.
Most improved in my opinion:
These additions should all prove to be really fun to play with.
Kingdra @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Surf
- Draco Meteor
- Hurricane
Wow, what an improvement. Hurricane folds Grass types much easier than Ice Beam ever did, getting much more key OHKOs and 2HKOs against things like Tapu Bulu, Tangrowth, Mega Venusaur, and Amoonguss. It also does only a bit less to a neutral target than a resisted Rain-boosted Hydro Pump, so that means even if Rain isn't up you can still get a decent hit against Ferrothorn and Tapu Fini, better than you ever could before. It also prevents Shedinja from walling you, bonus.
Swampert @ Swampertite
Ability: Damp
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall / Liquidation
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Bulk Up
Swampert would sometimes run Power-Up Punch to get an attack boost, giving it better breaking power, and Bulk Up accomplishes mostly the same thing, except it also gets a defense boost too, making it arguably better. The defense boost gives you a little bit more safety when setting up against something that can do a lot of damage to you. Swampert also gets Liquidation now which gives it a bit more power, but that flinch chance is pretty clutch so it's probably better to just run Waterfall.
Blacephalon @ Grassium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 232 HP / 4 Def / 20 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
- Flamethrower
- Solar Beam
Blacephalon finally has an option to hit Tyranitar with! Sort of. For reference: +1 20 SpA Blacephalon Bloom Doom (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 396-466 (98 - 115.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO. Also just generally blows away Water types. If you run this you can't slot Substitute though, which makes it a little hard to justify. It might also be better to run this with more Special Attack investment and fully commit to being a breaker. Either way, the option is now there, and anyone who switches in their Tyranitar on Blacephalon now has this to worry about in the back of their mind.
Aerodactyl @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Stone Edge
- Ice Fang
- Fire Fang
This actually seems good, the main issue is choosing which coverage moves to use since it's impossible to cover everything. I feel like Ice Fang is necessary, but the last move for Steel types can either be Fire Fang to cover most Steels, Earthquake to do more to Metagross and Aegislash but miss out on Ferrothorn while also hitting Heatran, or Crunch to do the most to Aegislash and Metagross, but then losing out on other Steels. You also got Aerial Ace which lets you always 2HKO phys def Tangrowth at least, but it's difficult to justify giving up anything else. I think this mon needs a lot of testing.
Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Hammer Arm / Bullet Punch
- Brutal Swing
- Ice Punch
I don't expect anyone to use this consistently, but it is something. Brutal Swing is pretty weak, even after a Tough Claws boost, but it does have one use, which is giving you a move to hit Aegislash with while also pressuring Slowbro to an extent, without spending two moveslots on a Ground move and Thunder Punch. It is a very weak move, missing out on the 2HKO on bulk invested Aegislash and only 3HKOing Slowbro at best, but with hazards up that could be enough to wear it down, and Thunder Punch doesn't really do much more to it anyways. Overall this is the nichest of niche options, and very bad.
Azumarill @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- High Horsepower
- Liquidation / Knock Off
One of the biggest factors leading to the decline of Choice Band Azumarill was its inability to adequately beat Toxapex, as even specially defensive variants could stomach a Knock Off then wall it. As a result CB Azumarill was basically replaced by CB Crawdaunt in gen 7. High Horsepower changes that by letting Azumarill actually 2HKO Toxapex very easily on the switch in. It also gives it a decent neutral move to use against Ferrothorn. This added move basically makes Banded Azumarill unwallable again. It's still a little difficult to justify using it over Crawdaunt though, who doesn't need to lock into an unsavory move to 2HKO Toxapex and does do a lot more to Ferrothorn, but Azumarill does have usable bulk and some defensive qualities over Crawdaunt, so it might be worth looking into again. High Horsepower doesn't really change anything for Belly Drum variants btw, since it basically gets all the same or worse OHKOs Knock Off does at +6.
Tapu Lele @ Choice Specs
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Future Sight
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Tapu Lele got a fun new toy in Future Sight. From a Specs set this can do a ton of damage and force the opponent into some unsavory situations. Future Sight in Psychic Terrain from Modest Specs does like 42% to Chansey for reference, meaning it does an insane amount to basically any non-dark type. This set just seems like so much fun.
Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Flyinium Z / Fightinium Z
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast / U-turn
- U-turn / Defog
NP improves this guy a lot. Tornadus-Therian can now be quite the scary breaker against balanced sorts of teams, as +2 Supersonic Skystrike is doing loads to everything besides Chansey really. Fightinium Z sets are still an option too, giving you much more conisistency against Tyranitar, Chansey, Magearna, etc. You can run more or less utility moves on this set too. Not much more to say that hasn't already been said.
Magearna @ Electrium Z
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Agility
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
Agility is basically just better than Shift Gear cause it doesn't raise your Foul Play or confusion damage, simple as. Also if a Ditto copies you and runs out of moves its Struggles won't hurt as much. Only reasons I could see for running Shift Gear are: you want to bluff a set with physical moves (why), you actually ARE running physical moves (why), you're running Stored Power (ok), you have Steelium Z and want the option of going for Z-Shift Gear (why), or you want to BLUFF having Steelium Z (super why). Shift Gear might actually be worth it for the bluffs, up to you.
Magearna @ Choice Specs
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fleur Cannon
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Trick
Specs Magearna never really caught on before, but it might be a bit more usable now with Trick. Chansey, who was once a guaranteed switch-in, now needs to worry about being saddled with a hindering item, as does Toxapex. You can also steal the AV from opposing Magearna and sort of flip the matchup a bit. Regardless this definitely won't be a main Magearna set, but might be a little better?
Diancie @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Diamond Storm
- Moonblast
- Mystical Fire / Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
Diancie got some nice buffs. Play Rough is cool if you want to use a set with a more physical focus, but overall it doesn't really hit key targets as hard as Moonblast does. Mystical Fire is a strict upgrade over HP Fire. Diancie also got Body Press which is neat. Historically Chansey has been one of the best stops to Mega Diancie cause it can sort of just stall it out of Diamond Storm PP, which is why things like Endeavor Mega Diancie became a thing (although Chansey could PP stall Endeavor sometimes too). But now if you want to beat Chansey you can also run Body Press. If you get a Defense boost with Diamond Storm, then Body Press becomes able to 2HKO Chansey, letting you pressure it.
Slowbro @ Leftovers / Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Slack Off
- Scald
- Psychic / Ice Beam
- Nasty Plot
Buckle in, Slowbro got a lot of cool new stuff. This set is pretty similar to just a regular defensive Slowbro with CM, but Nasty Plot gives it a little bit more oomph after a boost. This is similar to how Slowking historically has run both bulky NP and bulky CM sets in lower tiers. You could probably engineer the EV spread to survive something specific and OHKO back at +2. Z-moves are also an option too, I know Slowking used to run those. OTR with NP might even be an option too, although it seems even more fringe than this set is.
Slowbro @ Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Slack Off
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
Pls no toxic. It seems a little difficult to justify using this over Reuniclus, but Mega Slowbro has better stats and defensive typing tbh. Scald lets it potentially burn a physical attacker too, making breaking through Slowbro much more difficult. The EVs let you outspeed Toxapex and hit it before it can Haze or Toxic you. Having Stored Power means that Unaware can't really stand in your way any more... until you get Toxic'd. It might be better to run Rest on this set too, but then that makes you less effective against anything that actually does damage.
Slowbro @ Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Slack Off
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Body Press
Tank sets like this one have the option of running Body Press now. Once mega'd, this chunks Ferrothorn quite nicely, 2HKOs Chansey more than half the time, and OHKOs any Greninja foolish enough to switch in. It also lets you OHKO Tyranitar, Crawdaunt, and Bisharp who you can generally take one unboosted hit from. You also 3HKO Dracovish and generally do more to Rotom-W too. It lets you break Suicune Subs and hits most of the water-immune Pokemon harder too. So yeah, there are a ton of benefits to running Body Press. I think Mega Slowbro is one of the mons who benefits the most from the addition of Body Press to their movepool.
Slowbro @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic Terrain
- Teleport
- Scald
- Slack Off / Ice Beam / Psychic
Wow, Slowbro sure got a lot, didn't it? This set is pretty gimmicky, but the idea is to act as a supporter for a teammate by setting up Psychic Terrain. Although it doesn't set it up automatically like Tapu Lele does, Slowbro has recovery and Regenerator as well as nice bulk, and can bring the teammate in safely with Teleport. This could pair up well with something like NP Alakazam or Zen Headbutt Mega Metagross.
Zapdos @ Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
Ability: Pressure / Static
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Thunderbolt / Thunder
- Volt Switch
- Heat Wave / Hidden Power [Ice]
A great breaker with Hurricane, and difficult to switch in on. Alternately a good scarfer who can get momentum with Volt Switch. Hurricane is very strong and can 2HKO Zygarde and Excadrill, and also can chunk even resists like Mega Metagross and Aegislash really well. If you are using this in rain, Weather Ball is usable over Heat Wave, but it's almost unnecessary as Electric / Flying gets really good coverage anyways. Hits Rotom-H and Heatran at least. HP Ice is probably better so that you can pressure Zygarde more effectively, or even U-Turn, so you can gain momentum safely if they have a Ground type.
Latios (M) @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Roost
- Psychic
- Earthquake / Aura Sphere
- Mystical Fire / Ice Beam / Draco Meteor
Pretty standard Mega Latios with Mystical Fire. You could run Aura Sphere on this too, but it does less to Heatran in exchange to doing being able to 2HKO Tyranitar. Mystical Fire is pretty nice, not only for covering Mega Scizor, Corviknight, and Ferrothorn, but also for weakening opposing switch-ins like Clefable and Tapu Fini, letting you pivot out of them more effectively. Watch out for Serperior though, it will live Mystical Fire and get a boost from it. Bisharp can get a boost from it too but it often just gets OHKO'd by it. Ice Beam or Draco Meteor are still really good too what with all the Zygarde.
Latias (F) @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Mystical Fire
- Ice Beam / Breaking Swipe
- Thunderbolt / Psychic
Here's an example of a set Latias could use that makes use of Mystical Fire. Kind of a utility attacker. Fire / Ice / Electric coverage is pretty good, and Mystical Fire is a nice move to sort of just throw out, as it weakens incoming switch-ins like opposing Latis, Clefable, Tapus, letting you handle them easier. It can even be used to curtail opposing setup moves like Calm Mind or Quiver Dance, although not forever, as it only has 16 PP. I also slashed Breaking Swipe, a new physical Dragon move that's pretty weak, but it lowers the Attack stat too. With these two moves you can lower the offensive stats of whatever you're faced off against, letting you handle them a lot easier. Breaking Swipe is probably pretty bad though, but the meme of being able to lower both offenses is tempting.
Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet / Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
- Body Press
Skarmory itself is kinda mediocre, but Body Press isn't a bad option if you want to use an attack on your Skarmory set. This lets it take a decent chunk out of Steel types like Kartana, Mega Metagross, Corviknight, Bisharp, and Ferrothorn, and also does a lot to things that would like to switch in on it like Heatran and Magnezone. Skarmory gets a lot out of Body Press's coverage, it's a pretty good improvement.
Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out / Quick Attack
- Close Combat
- Frustration
- U-turn / Quick Attack
Lots of people have taken notice of Mega Lopunny. I think its main set will basically be this, taking advantage of its newfound pivoting ability while still not giving up the ability to chip foes with priority. I don't think this thing should ever really run Play Rough, it seems like a wasted slot to me. Even when it's super effective, it only matches damage with a neutral STAB CC, and Lopunny's neutral coverage is already basically perfect. It only really hits Kommo-o and nothing else.
Alakazam @ Alakazite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
I actually don't think this is a huge improvement, but it is nice to have. Alakazam can only really set up on predicted switches, and unlike Calm Mind, using Nasty Plot doesn't actually let it survive anything, making it even more difficult to use. If you can get the Nasty Plot off hoo boy you become powerful. +2 Focus Blast easily 2HKOs Chansey, and if you run Modest you actually have a good chance of 2HKOing AV Magearna after rocks too.
Tapu Koko @ Choice Band
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Close Combat
- Play Rough
- Wild Charge
I don't think Tapu Koko is gonna make a big comeback or anything like that, but it might be able to cut a niche finally. Play Rough + Wild Charge has some nice neutral coverage that Close Combat rounds out well, resulting in it being a little taxing to switch into. U-turn lets it get momentum and chunk phys def Tangrowth well enough. On its own this set is weak and not too threatening, but if Tapu Koko is to rise into relevance it won't be on the basis of this set alone; it still has all its special options, and the fact that it could be any variant of a physical, special, or mixed set makes it all the more threatening.
Tapu Bulu @ Choice Band
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 84 HP / 248 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Horn Leech
- Close Combat
- Darkest Lariat / Play Rough
Tapu Bulu got a lot of nice new options. Close Combat basically replaces Superpower, but Tapu Bulu also gained some new coverage options in Darkest Lariat and High Horsepower, as well as Fairy STAB in Play Rough. Of these I think Darkest Lariat is one of the better options you can run, as it hits most of the resists to Grass and Fighting neutrally at worst; more specifically, it is super effective against Aegislash, Blacephalon, Shedinja, Lati@s, and Dragapult, generally does more to Mega Metagross and Jirachi, and also hits Tornadus-T, Mega Charizard-Y, Zapdos, Amoonguss, Mega Venusaur, and Volcarona neutrally at least. High Horsepower, I wouldn't consider using, as it is basically the same or worse than Darkest Lariat against most things, with Mega Mawile and Magearna being the main exception. Play Rough is definitely an option though, it really reinforces your ability to check Zygarde and other Dragon types, hits flying types like Tornadus and Zapdos quite hard, and it also does more to opposing Grass types like Tangrowth and opposing Tapu Bulu.
Heracross @ Heracronite
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spikes
- Close Combat
- Rock Blast
- Swords Dance / Pin Missile
Heracross doesn't seem like that great of a Spikes setter tbh, just because it's so hard to switch into. It can almost always get something out of the turn by going for an attack, and because of that it might be harder to justify clicking Spikes. The fact that it's so hard to switch into might mean that people will just be more inclined to stay in and sack something against Heracross, meaning you won't get as many free turns to just go for Spikes. Landorus-T, which is one of the better switch-ins, can easily Defog the Spikes too if it carries it. It just seems difficult to use.
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 244 SpD / 20 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- Earthquake
- Power Whip
Whipscor. This set is pretty bad but running Power Whip does offer a few advantages. It lets you 2HKO basically every water type at +2, letting you beat down Slowbro and Rotom-W before they can beat you down. It lets you get a bigger hit on Hippowdon before it Whirlwinds you out, and it also lets you defeat Quagsire, although Quagsire generally can't do much to you anyways. Overall this is definitely a meme option.
These additions should all prove to be really fun to play with.
Funbot28
Banned deucer.
is now banned!https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-suspect-test-2-bug.3659573/page-3#post-8375100
Use this thread to discuss the metagame post-Genesect and expect some more updates regarding resources and further tiering soon!
Alright, so with Sect banned, here are some of my predictions:
This will likely replace scarfed Sect on Voltturn and increase even more in usage. It's got great coverage that hits hard, much like Sect. It also pretty much outspeeds everything Scarf Genesect did, but hates speed-tying with opposing Scarf base 95s. And its U-turn hits with similar strength.
Tran was already really great after Arena Trap was banned, but now no longer has the pressure of running SpD sets and getting worn down in fear of a Sect sweep. Z sets will likely be more popular due to their effectiveness at breaking bulkier teams as well as luring in the case of Grassium Z.
This lost one of its best partners, as Genesect could easily lure in Heatran, U-turn on it, and give Zygarde a chance to setup a Substitute or fire a Banded Tarrows, as well the fact that Sect could break Zygarde's defensive answers like Slowbro and Tang with ease. It'll probably stay high in usage though because of how absurdly easy it is for this to annoy teams. Can we please suspect this next after the meta develops?
Hyper Offense, particularly Screens, has already died a lot in usage due to how prepared teams are against it as well as the obvious fact that they can't abuse Dynamax anymore, but now they've lost a great setup sweeper as well as a momentum grabber that could force switches due to the pressure that a Scarf +1 U-turn/Explosion could potentially eliminate a defensive answer to one of your sweepers. Maybe Scarf Latias with Healing Wish will return?
Sorta related to the HO part, but Magearna no longer has as much competition as a sweeper with SG. It still hates stuff like Pex and Aegislash getting in the way though.
This will likely replace scarfed Sect on Voltturn and increase even more in usage. It's got great coverage that hits hard, much like Sect. It also pretty much outspeeds everything Scarf Genesect did, but hates speed-tying with opposing Scarf base 95s. And its U-turn hits with similar strength.
Tran was already really great after Arena Trap was banned, but now no longer has the pressure of running SpD sets and getting worn down in fear of a Sect sweep. Z sets will likely be more popular due to their effectiveness at breaking bulkier teams as well as luring in the case of Grassium Z.
This lost one of its best partners, as Genesect could easily lure in Heatran, U-turn on it, and give Zygarde a chance to setup a Substitute or fire a Banded Tarrows, as well the fact that Sect could break Zygarde's defensive answers like Slowbro and Tang with ease. It'll probably stay high in usage though because of how absurdly easy it is for this to annoy teams. Can we please suspect this next after the meta develops?
Hyper Offense, particularly Screens, has already died a lot in usage due to how prepared teams are against it as well as the obvious fact that they can't abuse Dynamax anymore, but now they've lost a great setup sweeper as well as a momentum grabber that could force switches due to the pressure that a Scarf +1 U-turn/Explosion could potentially eliminate a defensive answer to one of your sweepers. Maybe Scarf Latias with Healing Wish will return?
Sorta related to the HO part, but Magearna no longer has as much competition as a sweeper with SG. It still hates stuff like Pex and Aegislash getting in the way though.
late to the party but hey wanted to summize thoughts on new movepool additions, will try to pick less obvious ones than the already discussed options
: This gets Power Whip now? I mean... okay. Cool! It will never ever have the space for it but if you wanted to lure and snipe some bulky waters/offensive waters that normally beat it the option is there now.
: Nasty Plot on this thing is HUGE. Like... get that stuff outta here kinda huge. +2 STAB Hurricane spam is gonna be ridiculous once it's fully utilized, for sure.
: Always been an amazing rain abuser but now it has Hurricane. It might actually have some room for it seeing as how its movepool otherwise isn't the best from the special side.
: Oh cool, more coverage options on Pokemon that are already up to their knees in good coverage options. Mega Sharpedo is already unviable considering it has like 6 required moves and an ocean of coverage, we don't need this on top of it. Absol gets a minor bump as it no longer has to use Superpower though. Not enough to save it but it's there.
: 130/150 offenses + DD... and I still think this meta is too unfavorable for it. :( Real shame too because it might actually be really good if we didn't have so many Steel types running around.
Also Megaturtle. Lets just not talk about Megaturtle. You know it's dumb, I know it's dumb, he she we, all know it's dumb. Dumbology? The study of Megaturtle? First grade you guys.
Last bit:
: Didn't get anything but I figured this was my one chance to actually talk about her in this meta. I used to be a huge supporter of her but she's fallen off a lot. If Gigantimaxing was still a thing Hatterene remains the best Gigantimax form by far, Gmax Smite is pretty amazing and Psychic Terrain + Sun kinda ruins a lot of her counters, beating priority (BULLET PUNCH) and utterly incinerating some Steels that could previously take a hit. Unfortunately that's banned and never coming back (thank god), so Hatterene is stuck with the leftovers. They're decent leftovers, being a decent TR setter and abuser, plus being slow enough that it will never fear Ferrothorn. Psychic Fairy Fire coverage is pretty great overall. It also has Aromatherapy if you really wanna go that route. The good stuff stops there, as everything she does Mega Gardevoir can do better, with the same coverage +1 extra move (and a fairy move that can go around subs compared to Hatterene's not-Moonblast). Hatterene gets some more physical bulk but Mega Gardevoir is more immediately useful and much more threatening long term. Hatterene is also just so one dimensional; it's always going to be that one set it can actually use, meanwhile while Gard is strapped for options, there's pretty much a move for every mon. Neither Pokemon is particularly good now anyhow with MegaMeta, Mega Scizor, Melmetal, Magearna, Heatran, etc running around, but honestly you're better using M-Gardevoir 9 times out of 10.
: This gets Power Whip now? I mean... okay. Cool! It will never ever have the space for it but if you wanted to lure and snipe some bulky waters/offensive waters that normally beat it the option is there now. : Nasty Plot on this thing is HUGE. Like... get that stuff outta here kinda huge. +2 STAB Hurricane spam is gonna be ridiculous once it's fully utilized, for sure. : Always been an amazing rain abuser but now it has Hurricane. It might actually have some room for it seeing as how its movepool otherwise isn't the best from the special side. : Oh cool, more coverage options on Pokemon that are already up to their knees in good coverage options. Mega Sharpedo is already unviable considering it has like 6 required moves and an ocean of coverage, we don't need this on top of it. Absol gets a minor bump as it no longer has to use Superpower though. Not enough to save it but it's there. : 130/150 offenses + DD... and I still think this meta is too unfavorable for it. :( Real shame too because it might actually be really good if we didn't have so many Steel types running around. Also Megaturtle. Lets just not talk about Megaturtle. You know it's dumb, I know it's dumb, he she we, all know it's dumb. Dumbology? The study of Megaturtle? First grade you guys.
Last bit:
: Didn't get anything but I figured this was my one chance to actually talk about her in this meta. I used to be a huge supporter of her but she's fallen off a lot. If Gigantimaxing was still a thing Hatterene remains the best Gigantimax form by far, Gmax Smite is pretty amazing and Psychic Terrain + Sun kinda ruins a lot of her counters, beating priority (BULLET PUNCH) and utterly incinerating some Steels that could previously take a hit. Unfortunately that's banned and never coming back (thank god), so Hatterene is stuck with the leftovers. They're decent leftovers, being a decent TR setter and abuser, plus being slow enough that it will never fear Ferrothorn. Psychic Fairy Fire coverage is pretty great overall. It also has Aromatherapy if you really wanna go that route. The good stuff stops there, as everything she does Mega Gardevoir can do better, with the same coverage +1 extra move (and a fairy move that can go around subs compared to Hatterene's not-Moonblast). Hatterene gets some more physical bulk but Mega Gardevoir is more immediately useful and much more threatening long term. Hatterene is also just so one dimensional; it's always going to be that one set it can actually use, meanwhile while Gard is strapped for options, there's pretty much a move for every mon. Neither Pokemon is particularly good now anyhow with MegaMeta, Mega Scizor, Melmetal, Magearna, Heatran, etc running around, but honestly you're better using M-Gardevoir 9 times out of 10.And it's also worth noting that you're even better running Tapu Lele over Mega Garde 10 times out of 10 since it outclasses Garde and does its job better while not auto-dying to stuff like BP cuz Psychic Surge. Both struggle in the meta though.Last bit:
Anyways, to make this post at least somewhat contributive, let's discuss some mons.
Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 32 HP / 224 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Soft-Boiled
- Teleport
I've been testing this out a lot lately, and now that this is able to run Natural Cure and Teleport on the same set, Teleport Chansey is at least a little less gimmicky than before, and it gives a lot of really great traits to teams, mainly Teleport as mentioned before, as well as its longevity in Softboiled, and the fact that this checks practically every relevant special attacker in the meta, including mons that many offenses otherwise tend to struggle with like Volcarona, while also absorbing status, which any team appreciates. Now obviously this isn't as splashable as the other Teleport pivot in Slowbro considering this HAS to run Toxic to be a consistent check to the aforementioned mons, but it should definitely be considered imo. The spread above avoids a 2HKO from +2 Aura Sphere from both Timid and Modest MegaToise if at full, while still maintaining a large amount of physical bulk.
I've been loving this mon. The fact that this breaks through just about every relevant defensive core is amazing! Hell, it can even deal massive damage to Tapu Fini, who's risen a bit in popularity on Balance to try to give this and MegaToise a headache.
There's a lot of mons that fit this bill, but these two caught me in particular. I don't really get why anyone would bother running these two when their competition does everything they do but better. Lando can't even keep rocks up and is slow af as a scarfer, while Rotom-Wash just is outdone by Slowbro altogether.
Any thoughts or additional mons to be discussed?
I... completely forgot Lele was a thing. My b. sigh... One less reason to use Hatterene...
- Status