Metagame Camomons

[Lewi11]

This OM is quite balanced in itself at the moment. That's probably why there are so few messages here, nobody is complaining. But for how long?

Have you guys found some imbalanced Pokemons (or pokemon with specific types)?

Not sure about imbalanced, but Mew is pretty potent right now along with general priority power. But I agree, the meta seems pretty balanced, I see multiple different mons every match with only a few common ones, but nothings OU except maybe Cloyster, but it usual set is easily defeated.

Also, I wanted to share this cause I see Orbeetle as very underwhelming usually but it basically won me this battle:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8camomons-1110085848

Love Camomons, one of my fav OM's.

:)

 

[Talpr0ne]

If I want to use the Teleport Clefable set, what typing is better on Clefable, Fairy/Psychic or Fairy/Normal?

The best thing to do if you want to run WishPort Clef would be probably to forego Moonblast and change your STAB in order to get a better defensive type. For example, using Shadow Ball and Wish in the first two slots makes you a Ghost/Normal type, while using Teleport and Meteor Smash makes you a Psychic/Steel type. Other niche options include Flamethrower/Mystical Fire for Psychic/Fire, or Thunderbolt for Psychic/Electric. or if you are crazy you can even use Detect in place of Protect to make combinations with Fighting type (although Fighting by itself isn't a great defensive type EDIT: and Detect requires you to run Unaware). Of course, Clefable has an huge movepool and the mechanics of the metagame incentivize you to venture outside of the standard WishPort set (if you have balls, even WishPort with 2 attacks, or WishPort with a different support move like Aromatherapy, Toxic, Thunder Wave, Knock Off).

 

[soral_a_raison]

seriously, this OM is so interesting and not imbalanced at all, it should be a recurrent OM!!! Please make it happen
With this OM we can fix the design errors from Gamefreak when we build our teams

By the way, when I first posted here, i said we needed to see the types on preview, but I'm not sure anymore because it makes you scout, it forces you to have a team even more carefully crafted (ofc it also means almost nobody will run a Grass attack to do big damage, unlike in gen7 OU, but that's also the case in gen8 OU I'd say).

I even discovered that the fairy + electric type is really interesting offensively. And that reminded me why Tapu Koko was so good

Finally, the only pokemons that I dislike at the moment are Dracovish and Dracozolt. I have two counters to Dracovish in each team, and sometimes 0 for Dracozolt. In one of my TR team, I just can use Jellicent, like in OU but I imagine for other people it's even worse.
And Dracozolt is a disgrace, it hurts so bad but it's also based on luck because it requires hustle, so it's really a shitty mon, should just ban Dracozolt + Hustle (should just ban Hustle)

And of course the serene grace users as usual....

 

[a loser]

I'm gonna dump some sets I've been having fun with on the ladder so far. Not saying these are the greatest sets in every case, but I've been testing a lot of stuff out to see what sticks.

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Dragapult
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 188 Atk / 68 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty / Jolly Nature
- Acrobatics
- Thunderbolt / Quick Attack / Steel Wing
- U-turn / Facade
- Fire Blast

I've always been a big fan of the move Acrobatics and Dragapult has great Speed and nice Attack to make it a pretty good user of the move. It is easy to spam and hits pretty hard too. Full physical sets can put more investment in Atk to hit harder or you could even use a Normal Gem on the Quick Attack version to get a power boost. I prefer to just forgo the item altogether since Acrobatics is the main move the set uses though. Dragapult is super versatile though so you could really run a lot of typings with Flying to hit different threats.

Another cool thing I like on Dragapult is Brine on the special Water-type attacker set. You have to give up some coverage to run it, but it is more reliable than Hydro Pump in a pinch and has the potential to have 130 BP and that can let you hit really hard.

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Heliolisk @ Choice Specs
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Dark Pulse / Dragon Pulse
- Surf
- Thunderbolt

This is a discount Dracovish check thanks to Dry Skin and the Dark-typing lets it come in on Psychic Fangs variants, but STAB Crunch still has a great chance to 2HKO even from Scarf Vish sets. Specs lets this guy hit pretty hard against walls like Toxapex and its Speed tier is kinda nice since it is faster than Haxorus, Mew, and Keldeo. Its bulk is pretty terrible though so I'd be very careful if you decide to try this out.

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Coalossal @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 180 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Scald
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin

Coalossal is great with Flash Fire and Steel-typing, but I've had some success fishing for burns with this set. Flame Body with Scald means there is a decent chance the opponent is getting burned. Hazards and hazard control is also really nice on Coal. Ground/Water is just a solid defensive typing and the Water-type helps it not need Flash Fire to check Fire-types.

 

[zxgzxg]

I'm gonna dump some sets I've been having fun with on the ladder so far. Not saying these are the greatest sets in every case, but I've been testing a lot of stuff out to see what sticks.

/

or

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or

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Dragapult
Ability: Infiltrator
Hasty / Jolly Nature
- Acrobatics
- Thunderbolt / Quick Attack / Steel Wing
- U-turn / Facade
- Fire Blast

I'm not sure if Dragapult is physically or specially strong enough to run a mixed set, especially without an item. Steel/Flying is probably the best set here, with a solid defensive typing and decent moves (STAB Quick Attack is nice, but it's walled by a lot of Steel-types).

 

[soral_a_raison]

I'm not sure if Dragapult is physically or specially strong enough to run a mixed set, especially without an item. Steel/Flying is probably the best set here, with a solid defensive typing and decent moves (STAB Quick Attack is nice, but it's walled by a lot of Steel-types).

yeah, i'd say any pokemon that runs an offensive mixed set needs a life orb

 

[PlatypusVenom]

Just wanted to throw a defensive core out there, if nothing else they're great switch-ins to a lot of physical threats.

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Fire Blast
- Calm Mind
- Moonlight

Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Infestation
- Earthquake
- Recover
- Ice Beam / Curse

Clefable is a pretty standard set. Fire/Fairy... great resistances... great offensive STAB... blah blah blah. Main thing is Unaware for setup sweepers. But enough about that, I came to talk about Gastrodon. First of all, these two work great as a defensive core, even though their sets aren't stall and they're stats won't wall. Gastrodon certainly appreciates Clefable around to cover its weaknesses, but it definitely holds its own. I was surprised how well Bug/Ground would do in this meta as a defensive type, but it's perfect for a lot of physical threats I used to have trouble with since it comes with Storm Drain. It totally walls out Dracovish, Dracozolt, unboosted Haxorus (sans Aqua Tail), as well as variants of Conkeldurr, Dragapult, and Goodra that lack fire coverage. In general it shuts down many of the fighting and ground type sweepers in this meta.

The primary goal of this Gastrodon is to switch in to tank a resisted or immune hit, and then either (a) punish the opponent for staying or (b) punish the opponent for switching. From there, you can whittle them down slow and steady or start boosting if you have Curse. Infestation is Gastrodon's only bug move, so not much wiggle room there for alternatives. Luckily, it's a solid trapping move that can wear down bulkier opponents and is a nice tool for trapping prey that doesn't realize what they're up against. Earthquake does a deceptively high amount of damage for uninvested attack, often 2HKOing many of the steel-types it encounters. Recover is essential for this role, since longevity is key. The last slot can be filled with either Ice Beam or Curse; I've used both extensively and both have their merits. Ice Beam is currently on my set and threatens ground-, flying-, and dragon-types. Gastrodon can't safely stay in against offensive flying types like Mew, but can use Ice Beam to punish them if you predict a switch. Gastrodon is able to stay in against some defensive flying-types that got their type off Defog, in which case Ice Beam is the only way to damage them outside of Infestation. Curse sacrifices the versatility of Ice Beam and allows Gastrodon to become a true force to be reckoned with. You can set up on switches, or if you're lucky, while you have a physical sweeper trapped. This turns Gastrodon into a bulky sweeper, being able to KO most of your opponent's team with Earthquake.

Handle with care. Neither of these sets work if they get poisoned, so you need a Toxic switch-in or cleric. Also, both of these sets have max defense investment. While Clefable can augment its Special Defense with Calm Mind to round out its bulk, Gastrodon doesn't have this option, meaning it shouldn't be used to tank even neutrally-effective special moves. You also need to take care to avoid sneaky fire-type coverage on Conkeldurr and pseudos. Additionally, Gastrodon loses completely to stall without Curse. This core is intended to be used against resisted (sometimes neutral) physical offensive threats.

Let me know if you have any tweaks, and feel free to try it out. I'd also be interested in your opinions about what teammates you'd include on a team with these two. Thanks for reading!

 

[Deleted User 350996]

Hi guys, here my humble contribution to this thread (apologies if some the sets have already been posted!).

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Play Rough
- Iron Head
- U-turn / Fire Punch / Drain Punch
- Healing Wish

Better typing and steel (lol) does the same job.

Avalugg @ Leftovers
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Body Press
- Iron Defense
- Rapid Spin
- Recover

It's such a better spinner with this typing but it works well as a wincon too I guess. I'm not sure if I should run max def but max sdef seems more interesting considering we already have good def + iron defense.

Umbreon @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Toxic
- Wish
- Protect

Now it has only 1 weakness (being neutral to both fairy and fighting) while ground is usually easy to coverage (grass/ghost Chandelure or grass/water Jellicent for instance) and a 100% accuracy Toxic.

Dhelmise @ Leftovers
Ability: Steelworker
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Liquidation / Power Whip
- Heavy Slam
- Rapid Spin
- Synthesis

Another spinner here. Steel typing is actually amazing for a spinner as you are being immunised to t-spikes and having resistance against sr. I suppose steel/grass could work too if you want to have more offensive presence.

Haxorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Mold Breaker
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- First Impression
- Earthquake / Close Combat
- Crunch
- Poison Jab

I'm not sure which of ground/bug or fight/bug is the best but anyway the main idea is to have a strong STABd priority. Band may work too but it implies a free-switch.


Thanks for reading!

 

[soral_a_raison]

What about banning this shit of cosmic power + stored power/powertrip ? it's just so random on defensive pokemons, you can't beat them, you can't be prepared to this (mew, jirachi, corviknigt, necrozma can have completely different sets and typing because of their movepool) and you can't toxic them because they always run steel/fairy with cosmic power or iron defense, you can burn them but it doesn't matter if they use stored power...

in top of that it requires no brain, you can do this at any point of the game, you only need 1 free turn and you win

 

[soral_a_raison]

so now every 2 games I stumble upon a stored power pokemon, becoming unhealthy

 

[Euphonos]

so now every 2 games I stumble upon a stored power pokemon, becoming unhealthy

I believe this hasn't been touched in the first place is there are several ways on how you deal with such strategies -- I could give you these options (and probably the fellow council might agree with me).

Clefable @ Black Sludge Ability: Unaware EVs: 248 HP / 44 Def / 216 SpD Careful Nature - Knock Off - Toxic - Wish - Protect

Toxapex @ Black Sludge Ability: Regenerator EVs: 248 HP / 52 Def / 208 SpD Careful Nature - Knock Off - Toxic - Haze - Recover

Mandibuzz @ Black Sludge Ability: Overcoat EVs: 224 HP / 216 SpD / 60 Spe Careful Nature - Knock Off - Toxic - Whirlwind - Roost

 

[HyperGriff]

Hey there! this was the team I was gonna run for my first time, and I wanted to figure out if I did good (any help is needed, im bad as this) (ignore the nicknames, im wierdo)

Babie (Dracozolt) @ Blunder Policy
Ability: Hustle
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bolt Beak
- Aerial Ace
- Dragon Rush
- Taunt

Dracos (Kommo-o) @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Focus Blast
- Clangorous Soul
- Clanging Scales

Mad Hax Yo (Haxorus) @ Life Orb
Ability: Mold Breaker
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch

Egg (Mew) @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Flare Blitz

SexyLady (Salazzle) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Corrosion
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Foul Play
- Protect
- Substitute

Feck (Umbreon) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Toxic
- Wish
- Protect

 

[a loser]

Hey there! this was the team I was gonna run for my first time, and I wanted to figure out if I did good (any help is needed, im bad as this) (ignore the nicknames, im wierdo)

Babie (Dracozolt) @ Blunder Policy
Ability: Hustle
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bolt Beak
- Aerial Ace
- Dragon Rush
- Taunt

Dracos (Kommo-o) @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Focus Blast
- Clangorous Soul
- Clanging Scales

Mad Hax Yo (Haxorus) @ Life Orb
Ability: Mold Breaker
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch

Egg (Mew) @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Flare Blitz

SexyLady (Salazzle) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Corrosion
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Foul Play
- Protect
- Substitute

Feck (Umbreon) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Toxic
- Wish
- Protect

Thanks for sharing the team! Salazzle is a pretty fun mon to use even though it is really frail.

It looks like the team is a somewhat random assortment of offensive setup sweepers with Salazzle and Umbreon thrown in there. The sweepers will likely get you some wins if they find a chance setup but it doesn't look like the team has much consistency or synergy in the long run. There also isn't a lot on your team to stop opposing offensive setup sweepers. It might be useful to have a Focus Sash on one of your sweepers, like maybe Haxorus. Speaking of this, there is also nothing on your team to remove entry hazards like Stealth Rock or Sticky Web. These can be pretty detrimental to offensive teams, especially those relying on speed.

When posting teams and asking for help, it really helps us help you if you tell us about the team rather than just copy/pasting the import. Telling us what each mon's role is and why you chose it and/or the EV spreads is all helpful information. Perhaps you could edit your post and let us know a little more about the team?

 

[zxgzxg]

I also built a team with Salazzle


Salazzle (F) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Corrosion
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Foul Play
- Protect
- Substitute

Helps beat out bulkier sets such as Toxapex, Kommo-o, and Unaware Clef


Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Close Combat
- Dragon Dance
- Roost

Ground resist #1. Resists the STAB of most Haxorus (Bug, Fighting, Ground). Roost and Lefties are there for longevity, since BB and CC weaken it overtime


Chandelure @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Energy Ball
- Shadow Ball
- Fire Blast
- Trick

Ground resist #2. Fighting resist for Salazzle and Claydol. Can trick Scarf onto Toxapex, Clef, and Kommo-o


Claydol @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
- Rapid Spin
- Teleport

Ground resist #3 (unless Mold Breaker or smth). Hazard setter and removal, also pivots with Teleport. Mew and Chandelure help cover its Fighting-weakness


Dragapult @ Choice Band
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Steel Wing
- Dive
- Sucker Punch

Good defensive typing, STAB Band U-turn hits hard. Fairy resist for Mew, Goodra, and Salazzle


Goodra @ Choice Specs
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Sludge Wave

I choose Water/Dragon over Water/Ground because this team doesn't have a good Water of Fire resist (besides Chandelure, but Chandelure's frail af).

Any suggestions?

 

[HyperGriff]

Thanks for sharing the team! Salazzle is a pretty fun mon to use even though it is really frail.

It looks like the team is a somewhat random assortment of offensive setup sweepers with Salazzle and Umbreon thrown in there. The sweepers will likely get you some wins if they find a chance setup but it doesn't look like the team has much consistency or synergy in the long run. There also isn't a lot on your team to stop opposing offensive setup sweepers. It might be useful to have a Focus Sash on one of your sweepers, like maybe Haxorus. Speaking of this, there is also nothing on your team to remove entry hazards like Stealth Rock or Sticky Web. These can be pretty detrimental to offensive teams, especially those relying on speed.

When posting teams and asking for help, it really helps us help you if you tell us about the team rather than just copy/pasting the import. Telling us what each mon's role is and why you chose it and/or the EV spreads is all helpful information. Perhaps you could edit your post and let us know a little more about the team?

oh yeah I probably should've stated their roles lol.

Dracovolt, the way ive been using it against my friend, is probably gonna be used as a sort of bulky fast sweepysweep. (ive managed to sweep my friend with him once.)
Never had a chance to really use Kommo-o, but probably the guy to pick off the weaklings left over. Is that a thing?
Haxorus, probably gonna be used as the guy to handicap the opponent, and get them soft for easy fighting.
Mew was also gonna be used as a handicapper pokemon, to get the opposing side all nice and squishy.
Umbreon is mainly used to doom the opponent with toxic (if they don't have heal bell, that is!)
Never really used salazzal, honestly. So id think of her as some sort of wild card.

That's kinda all I got, im new to this, so forgive me for not using correct terms. ^^

oh yeah forgot to explain my choices.
Dracovolt, mainly because I heard that he was a strong choice so I kinda went off that.
Umbreon, beacause hes reasonably bulky and made him be able to live long enough to apply toxic to everything, while being incapable of dying (thank you wish!)
Haxorus, big strong executioner-like fella.
Sallazle, an extra umbreon should the main guy get killed off.
Mew: from what i looked at, he was also a good type of guy like dracovolt?
Kommo-o, also a big executioner fellow, has decent defense too so...who knows.

(as of now, i have won five fights with m friend, and have come close to losing once. I think its a solid team?)

 

[soral_a_raison]

I believe this hasn't been touched in the first place is there are several ways on how you deal with such strategies -- I could give you these options (and probably the fellow council might agree with me).

Clefable @ Black Sludge Ability: Unaware EVs: 248 HP / 44 Def / 216 SpD Careful Nature - Knock Off - Toxic - Wish - Protect

Toxapex @ Black Sludge Ability: Regenerator EVs: 248 HP / 52 Def / 208 SpD Careful Nature - Knock Off - Toxic - Haze - Recover

Mandibuzz @ Black Sludge Ability: Overcoat EVs: 224 HP / 216 SpD / 60 Spe Careful Nature - Knock Off - Toxic - Whirlwind - Roost

nop, that's not how it works...

you're suggesting me to run full stall mons to counter 1 strategy that is found only on pokemons that can run: swords dance, nasty plot, stall, substitute strats, pp stall, pivot, tr setters etc...

in top of that, some variants have an attack move, and they would obliterate these pokemons (apart from unaware clef)

so your solution is that to counter 1 move, I need one of these horrible pokemons that everybody here play (hence why the likes)

then to counter dracovish, let's get a water absorb
for dracozolt, let's get an earthquake

oh and then we will have the same teams over and over but apparently you stallers love this, i guess there was a meta for you, it was last month and you could only kill with indirect damage but you all always try to make each OM a stall heaven, it's crazy (and Z the immortal loves stall, coincidence?)


Hydreigon banned? I could totally destroy this pokemon, but I suppose it wasn't the case for some stallers so it got banned (pure theory)

 

[Lewi11]

Never thought a Rapidash could cause a forfeit = why this meta is great :D
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8camomons-1113601768

 

[lilpup800]

Looks like I was able to get into about the top 150 of the ladder(1310) using this team.
I have noted a few things about this meta. Two of the best types are Ghost and Steel for being great defensively and above average offensively. This has prompted a surge in Fighting, Normal, Fire, and more Ghost types to check these two types. Though the best offensive type is easily Ground because of how common EQ is and how many Steel types there are. This is helped out significantly by the fact that the Flying type really only has two or three decent moves Roost, Brave Bird, and Defog. Roost and Defog are pretty much exclusive to walls and Brave Bird users are typically uncommon and too frail to reliably switch in on a fast and powerful EQ and beat the EQ user's next move. Levitate has also become popular(but as you will see), but see that a couple shooting stars can put an end to them rather quickly. Water, Dark, and Fairy are also strong types in the meta for being overall solid types but rarely possess qualities that are too oppressive and difficult to counter or check. Poison types are also common because Toxic is a move that every non-gen 8 mon gets and it pairs well with the Dark type.

Conkeldurr @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Facade
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
Conkeldurr is just great because he does a lot of damage, can tank some hits, and can revenge KO using priority. Drain Punch is important to ensure Conkeldurr can take a hit or two and dish out serious damage and set up for a Mach Punch KO. Facade does a ton of damage and can hit unsuspecting fairies for OHKOs, also the move provides the normal typing which allows Conkeldurr to switch in on the prominent Normal/Ghost types apply pressure with Knock Off. Every move here is necessary, I would not change a thing(just watch out for Fighting types I always forget about them). Conkeldurr was probably my MVP.

Lucario @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Inner Focus/Justified
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Shadow Claw
- Swords Dance
- Substitute
Standard Lucario ESpeed is great for revenge KOs and just a great snowball sweeper in general. Typing gives it the ever valuable Normal/Fighting switch-ins. Also funny enough to mention you cannot hit Normal/Ghosts(so watch out), but I kept running into Dittos and usually get to setup on them for free(I win in terms of PP 99% of the time). Priority is god-like in this sweeper heavy meta so being both is amazing. You can use either Justified or Inner Focus and neither really do anything.

Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Roost
- Defog
- Toxic
Mew is great for tanking, Scald is good because burning and chipping. Roost is great recovery for a tank. Defog is the only way this team can remove hazards. Toxic is to ensure Mew is not too pasive against sweepers or reliant on burns. Being a real Flying type lets it switch in on the super power EQs this meta loves and provides an out against Sun and Rain teams.

Haxorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Aqua Tail
- Close Combat/First Impression
- Dragon Dance
Flying types, that are not Mew, are like the validity of flat-earth theories meaning there are none. What people love to do is use levitate users and give them types like Electric, Dark/Poison, and Steel/Fairy think it is so cool their pokemon have minimal to no weaknesses. Mold Breaker EQ laughs in the faces of people who think that no weakness pokemon are good because they have no weaknesses. Excadrill also gets Mold Break EQ, but is less powerful and doesn't have great options for switching in on the powerful Fire type and cannot sweep as well without Dragon Dance. Aqua Tail provides good coverage and makes it so Haxorus' only weakness is grass(an uncommon type). I used Close Combat because the move is good, but I could see a strong arguement for First Impression because priority is good and Close Combat really doesn't hit anything EQ doesn't for big damage except Normal types(but they love to be ghosts too). This is a great sweeper and wallbreaker.

Dragapult @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator/Clear Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid/Hasty Nature
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt/Sucker Punch
- U-turn
This team needed some raw speed and the power on display is also very nice. Fire Blast can hit weak points for massive damage and will dent opposing mons that do not resist Fire. Shadow Ball is great because Ghost is a great type and because there are not many type combinations that resist it offensively. Thunderbolt can take people by suprise, beating Water/Flying users, but it generally weak and easy to switch in to after you are choice-locked. A fast U-turn is great on turn 1 and can hit anything regardless of ability or type. Sucker Punch is nice if you think this team was lacking priority moves(but why?). Dragapult can struggle a bit against opposing Sucker Punch users, cannot really switch in on anything that is not an immunity, has a big stealth rock weakness, and being choice locked can be really dangerous because of Normal types and the prevalence of Flash Fire users. Dragapult is probably the worst but most necessary member of the team that is overall high risk/high reward.

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Flash Cannon
- Aura Sphere/Thunder Wave
- Stealth Rock
Jirachi can switch in on almost everything, is bulky, can kill fighting and dragon types, and sets up rocks. Moonblast is Jirachi's strongest fairy move and a strong type. Steel is a strong defensive type and Fairy/Steel is even better. Aura Sphere is great because fighting is a great and you need a way to hit steel types. T-Wave is good for stopping sweepers but really just makes you too passive. Jirachi is just important to round out the team and seems like a fairly splashable utility mon for many offensive and balance teams.

This is by far one of the most fun and balanced metagames I have ever played and I hope it becomes a regular metagame even if demand is low. There are little to no stall teams and is not horrifically dominated by sweepers.

 

[in the hills]

It's time for the first Camomons suspect this generation! After Home dropped we had a slew of new Pokemon to get rid of through quickbans, but now we finally have time to focus on a threat that has been lurking in the back of everyone's minds: Dracovish. With access to Fishious Rend and, Dracovish is a huge hitter that in normal play is incredibly difficult to switch into without a Water Absorber. In the Camomons ladder however, Dracovish also has the option of two other STAB jaw moves in Crunch and Psychic Fangs, which are both effective at breaking Water Absorbers or Water resists, though these moves are much weaker than Fishious Rend. There were a few ideas in the air for a suspect, but the council decided that Dracovish is the most pressing issue for the community.

• All games must be played on the Pokemon Showdown! Camomons ladder on a new alt account with the following format: "CDS (Nick)." For example, I might register the alt CDS in the hills to ladder with. You must meet the listed format in order to qualify.​
• To qualify for voting, your alt must play a minimum of 25 games, and you must have a minimum GXE of 75. (These are due to change if we find that the reqs are too hard/easy.)​
• Suspect test will end on May 31st (11:59pm EST). Dracovish will be allowed on the suspect ladder.​
• A super-majority of 60% ban is required for Dracovish to be banned​
• Post your proof of reqs and your vote in the thread, along with your thoughts if you wish.
  

  • you MUST FIRST AND FOREMOST PROVIDE AN IMAGE OF THE ALT WITH PROOF OF OWNERSHIP. This is important.​

Tagging The Immortal

 

[Euphonos]

Good day, everyone! As the most recent appointee to the Camomons council, allow me to open my statement regarding Dracovish.

I'll be brutally honest with my sentiment here: while I am receptive to a Dracovish suspect, the Pokemon in itself is one of the weirdest cases to suspect. Its ability to deal massive damage against some of the commonly-used bulky Pokemon in the metagame by virtue of Fishious Rend (especially with Rain active) is rather concerning for teams that don't have a Water resist bulky enough to withstand such a move. Offensive teams have to tread carefully against the Choice Scarf variants as switching in on Fishious Rend guarantees 170 BP, severely weakening such a switch-in. Teams with a sound defensive backbone still has to tread carefully against Choice Band variants because of the Strong Jaw-boosted Crunch or Psychic Fangs that could potentially 2HKO even Water Absorb Pokemon.

However, this is where the peculiarity of the case begins to unravel. Results in Dracovish use have been inconsistent: Choice Band Dracovish against a speed-heavy offense team means that it's hard to find opportunities to switch in unless it has Water Absorb; Choice Scarf Dracovish a balanced / semi-stall team means that it has to take down a bulky Water resist / Water Absorb Pokemon in order to dish out massive damage in the long run. This means that Dracovish has enough forms of counterplay that convinced me not to ban this Pokemon.

There's this one set that hasn't been touched on: the Substitute + Metronome (item) one. It has the freedom to switch moves which is actually dangerous to the opposition, but in order for that Dracovish set to pull that off successfully is supporting it through Sticky Web / Paralysis. The lack of initial Speed (without the Sticky Web / Paralysis support) makes it difficult to find opportunities that makes the set not exactly potent enough to warrant a ban unless someone makes a conviction out of it (not to mention Protect resets a move's base power).

Finally, as a personal take based on my experience, I haven't been using a Dracovish since Pokemon Home has been established. Therefore, my perspective on this Dracovish suspect is mostly coming from a person who faces Dracovish most of the time and apparently, the bulky Pokemon that I use is generally a bulky Water not just to deal with Dracovish but to a lot of Pokemon as well, so that's why it exemplifies how much counterplay this Pokemon has; though I acknowledge how good Dracovish is under the right circumstances, Dracovish does not deserve to be banned in this metagame.

With that, attached in this post is my requirements to earn my right to vote for this suspect.

If you're using a Water-resistant Defensive Mew in dealing with Dracovish...

Run 240 HP / 212 Def / 56 Spe (Jolly or Timid). 56 Speed EVs with a positive nature ensures outrunning a Jolly Choice Band variant so that you can recover either with Soft-Boiled or Roost before taking a hit from a Choice Band-boosted Fishious Rend.

Significant Calcs:

Provided Mew switches in on a Choice Band variant:
252 Atk Adamant Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 240 HP / 212 Def Mew: 217-256 (54.1 - 63.8%)
252 Atk Jolly Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 240 HP / 212 Def Mew: 198-233 (49.3 - 58.1%)

Otherwise, with 56 Speed with positive nature outrunning any Choice Band variant:
252 Atk Adamant Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (85 BP) vs. 240 HP / 212 Def Mew: 108-128 (26.9 - 31.9%)
252 Atk Jolly Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (85 BP) vs. 240 HP / 212 Def Mew: 99-117 (24.6 - 29.1%)

Other calcs from a Choice Band variant (tread carefully if this happens!)
252 Atk Adamant Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Psychic Fangs vs. 240 HP / 212 Def Mew: 217-256 (54.1 - 63.8%)

Against a Choice Scarf variant:
252 Atk Adamant Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 240 HP / 212 Def Mew: 144-171 (35.9 - 42.6%)
252 Atk Jolly Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 240 HP / 212 Def Mew: 132-156 (32.9 - 38.9%)

*Provided Mew gets 2x resistance to Water. Damage output will be significantly lessened if Mew is 4x resistant to Water (i.e. Water/Grass or Water/Dragon).

 

[Siamato]

Hi everyone, just an old Camo player who wants to complain about gen8 and says gen7 is better

Also I got the reqs (s/o to the hard staller who motivated me to win the last 24 games)

I really don't like Vish and his stupid Fishious Rend but I'm not convinced yet what to vote for... But maybe ban after a game against Test Techles who had 2 def drop on my Jelli with Crunch lol

I'm not sure if I will take the time to make a more detailed post like Euphonos (because my english sucks a lot lol) but maybe because I'm not really agree with Euphonos's post (even if there are good points obviously!)

 

[astralydia]

reqs

Oh my. This was the worst reqs journey I've ever had. Fitting considering my actions within the past 4-5 months (and I apologize to those who have been harmed by my reckless outbursts, you will be given a formal apology soon in another thread).

But to tell you what happened:
Matchup (x)
Counterteaming (x)
Crit rate so high you'd think someone implemented the recent changes incorrectly (x)

And two bonus ones:
Ableist opponent continually taunting whilst getting insane hax because "I was using stall" (x)
Replay system didn't work (x)

This was dumb. I hope to never have do something like this again for a suspect test. Again, apologies to those who have been harmed by my reckless attitude prior to my demotion.

 

[Lilo]

Got reqs even though got some nice crunch crits vs siamato :] anyways still not sure about what to vote but leaning towards BAN. If i get the time to further explain my thoughts about it I will.

good luck out there to any of you still on this suspect pain...

 

[anaconja]

haha

ban vish

 

[Alternatif]

Give Camo a permanent ladder pls, and ban Vish