Metagame Camomons

Euphonos

inanod ng mga luha; damdamin ay lumaya.
is a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
Good day, everyone! Camomons meteorologist here giving you all a weather report regarding the state of the Camomons metagame after the OM Spotlight Trios Tour concluded (huge thanks to UT for hosting that tour!):

So here's the usage stats for the entirety of the Spotlight Trios Tour itself: http://spo.ink/omsltriocamo

and here's the Top 10 used Pokemon for the OM Spotlight Trios Tour, counting playoffs!
1661298761967.png


With that in mind, I am glad to announce that the Council, after the OM Spotlight Tour, has made some changes with the Viability Rankings, and here it is:

Camomons Viability Ranking Updates!
Pokemon in each rank are listed in alphabetical order

★★★★ TOP TIER ★★★★

S
:rillaboom:Rillaboom:
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:dragapult: Dragapult:
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/...


S-
:heatran: Heatran (up from A+):
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:garchomp: Garchomp (up from A):
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/...


A+
:melmetal: Melmetal (up from A):
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:slowbro: Slowbro (up from A-):
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:slowking-galar: Slowking-Galar (up from A):
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★★★ HIGH ★★★


A
:blissey: Blissey (tentative):
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:cinderace: Cinderace (up from A-):
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:landorus-therian: Landorus-Therian:
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/...

:latias: Latias (down from A+):
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:latios: Latios (up from A-):
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/...

:lycanroc-dusk: Lycanroc-Dusk (up from B+):
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:salamence: Salamence:
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/...

:slowking: Slowking (up from A-):
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/...


A-
:ferrothorn: Ferrothorn (up from B+):

:heracross: Heracross:
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:magearna: Magearna (up from B+):
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:necrozma: Necrozma (up from B+):
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:porygon-z: Porygon-Z (up from B+):
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:reuniclus: Reuniclus (up from B+):
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:tapu-lele: Tapu Lele (up from B+):
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:toxapex: Toxapex:
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:victini: Victini (up from B+):

:volcanion: Volcanion (up from B+):
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★★ MID ★★


B+
:alakazam: Alakazam:
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:arcanine: Arcanine:
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/...

:azelf: Azelf (up from B):
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/...

:barraskewda: Barraskewda:
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:blaziken: Blaziken (up from B):
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/...

:buzzwole: Buzzwole:
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/...

:celebi: Celebi:
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:clefable: Clefable:
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:coalossal: Coalossal (down from A):
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:corviknight: Corviknight (up from B):
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:scizor: Scizor:

:skarmory: Skarmory:
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:urshifu:Urshifu-Single:
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:zarude: Zarude (up from B):
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B
:cresselia: Cresselia:
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:darmanitan: Darmanitan:
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:dracozolt: Dracozolt (down from B+):
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:drednaw: Drednaw:
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:entei: Entei:
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:excadrill: Excadrill:
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:hawlucha: Hawlucha:
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:hippowdon:Hippowdon:
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:jirachi:Jirachi:
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/...

:kommo-o: Kommo-o:
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:lucario: Lucario:

:magnezone: Magnezone:
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:mamoswine: Mamoswine (up from C):

:moltres: Moltres:
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:noivern: Noivern:
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:pelipper: Pelipper:
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:tangrowth: Tangrowth:
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:tapu-koko: Tapu Koko:
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:torkoal: Torkoal (up from B-):
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:urshifu-rapid-strike:Urshifu-Rapid:
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:venusaur: Venusaur (up from B-):
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:weavile: Weavile (down from B+):
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:zapdos: Zapdos:
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:zapdos-galar: Zapdos-Galar (new rank):
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★ LOW ★


B-
:aegislash: Aegislash:

:barbaracle: Barbaracle:
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:blacephalon: Blacephalon:
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:conkeldurr:Conkeldurr:

:gengar: Gengar:
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:glastrier: Glastrier:
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:gyarados: Gyarados:
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:haxorus: Haxorus:
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:kingdra: Kingdra:
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:ninetales-alola:Ninetales-Alola:
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:pikachu: Pikachu:
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:rhyperior: Rhyperior:
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:rotom-wash:Rotom-W:
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:scolipede: Scolipede (up from C):
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:tapu fini: Tapu Fini (new rank):

:thundurus: Thundurus:
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:tornadus: Tornadus:
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:toxtricity: Toxtricity:
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:tyranitar: Tyranitar (down from B):
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:vaporeon: Vaporeon:
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:zoroark: Zoroark:
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:zygarde-10%: Zygarde-10%:


C+ (newly established)
:aerodactyl: Aerodactyl (down from B-):

:avalugg: Avalugg (up from C):
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:cloyster: Cloyster (down from B-):
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:dhelmise: Dhelmise (down from B-):
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:keldeo: Keldeo (down from B-):

:mandibuzz: Mandibuzz (down from B-):
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:porygon2: Porygon2 (new rank):

:regieleki: Regieleki (down from B-):
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:terrakion: Terrakion (up from C):

:xurkitree: Xurkitree (new rank):
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C
:arctozolt: Arctozolt:

:articuno: Articuno:

:diggersby: Diggersby:
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:ditto: Ditto:

:seismitoad: Seismitoad:
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:tyrantrum: Tyrantrum:
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More resources from our fellow Council members coming up!
 

Clas

pixibursting
is a Tiering Contributor
For those who are unsure of what has changed:

Rises
:heatran: from A+ to S-
Premier stallbreaker and Stealth Rock setter that combines multiple roles in one with good type combinations that compliment each other. It's gotten so good that Fire/Steel and Ground/Steel types use the coveted FlashLoon strategy just to deal with Fire/Ground Heatran.
:garchomp: from A to S-
Splashable wall, Stealth Rock setter, wallbreaker, and stallbreaker that can customise its sets to fit the team's needs. It is almost impossible to tell what type or set Garchomp is often on preview because of how easy it is to fit into teams. You pretty much never can go wrong with it.
:melmetal: from A to A+
Bulky offensive Steel-type that can run multiple complimentary types and moves to break the numerous threats in the tier. However, with the drop in usage of bulkier answers like Coalossal and Salamence, Melmetal shines as a top breaker.
:slowking-galar: from A to A+
Top tier RegenVest Pokemon that can also stallbreak with Nasty Plot. Also has a very wide movepool, so go figure. Definitely something to consider in the builder, although not quite as oppressive as it once was with Calm Mind.
:slowbro: from A- to A+
Flexible Regenerator pivot that spreads status and spams Future Sight. Very effective in faster metagames.
:cinderace: from A- to A
Despite the trend of Water/Poison and Water/Ghost types appearing so often, Cinderace has still managed to prove itself as a super strong breaker thanks to its great movepool and Libero, and has accordingly been moved up.
:latios: from A- to A
While lacking pivoting options, Latios makes up for it with a great speed tier and bulk that allows it to stay in multiple times while breaking. It noticeably is able to break both Water-types and Heatran in one role, while having Trick to punish extreme walls like Blissey.
:slowking: from A- to A
Similar to Slowbro, just a tier lower due to it being less required thanks to the high number of viable specially defensive walls.
:lycanroc-dusk: from B+ to A
This had an insane record in the Spotlight tour. Lycanroc's speed, great ability in Touch Claws, and its stellar movepool allow it to become one of the scariest breakers in the tier. The low bulk does let it down a little, but not enough to way down its positives.
:ferrothorn: from B+ to A-
Ferrothorn shines as the tier's best Spikes user thanks to its ability to beat many top Defoggers like Latias and Landorus, and Iron Barbs is always appreciated for punishing reckless U-turns from Dragapult or Double Iron Bashes from Melmetal.
:magearna: from B+ to A-
Despite losing its biggest tool in Calm Mind, Magearna remains a threatening Choice Specs breaker that can choose to use surprise sets like SG3A with relative ease.
:Necrozma: from B+ to A-
Necrozma is able to compress a lot of roles into one, such as a physical wall, Stealth Rock setter, Fairy-type, item remover, and so on.
:porygon-z: from B+ to A-
Where it lacks in coverage it makes up for in power and speed. Porygon-Z is still a major threat with its signature 2A TrickPlot set. It noticeably loves the increased Water-type Pokemon showing up.
:reuniclus: from B+ to A-
Less notable than other RegenVest Pokemon but still good. Reuniclus particularly is good thanks to its unique sets caused from a wide movepool with wacky possible types like Grass/Ghost and Steel/Psychic.
:tapu-lele: from B+ to A-
The lack of Dark-types in the current metagame allows for Tapu Lele to exploit most Pokemon's weakness to its great offensive combo in Psychic/Psyshock and Focus Blast. It's also able to make use of otherwise niche sets like Charge Beam in place of Calm Mind to stallbreak.
:Victini: from B+ to A-
A lack of physically bulky Fire/Electric resists make Victini incredibly difficult to switch into. Coalossal's decline definitely helped it, though.
:volcanion: from B+ to A-
Volcanion exploits the numerous Water-type walls well with its combo of Water Absorb and a selection of tools to break most defensive answers. Also has notable defensive utility in Defog.
:Azelf: from B to B+
Azelf's high Speed, offensive stats, colourful movepool and Levitate makes it a notable Pokemon to all offense teams alike, whether that be as a suicide lead, an item remover, or simply a breaker itself.
:Blaziken: from B to B+
The decreased number of larger walls allows Blaziken to shine as a Speed Boost breaker. Its wide movepool allows it to break most threats with ease, and those it cannot can be simply beaten by its teammates.
:corviknight: from B to B+
Good bulk while having U-turn to pivot makes Corviknight a strong support Pokemon. Also works as a Bulk Up sweeper sometimes.
:zarude: from B to B+
Coalossal's decreased usage paired with Rillaboom's continued dominance allows Zarude to be a great Bulk Up sweeper with Jungle Healing for Scald burns. Not something to overlook.
:torkoal: from B- to B
:venusaur: from B- to B
The decrease in Pokemon that can effectively deal with Sun allows for said playstyle to put on a lot more pressure despite the increase in usage of Rillaboom and Heatran.
:mamoswine: from C to B
While it cannot touch standard Latias sets, Ice/Ground remains a strong breaking combination and Oblivious allows it to ignore Landorus and Salamence's Intimidate drops too.
:zapdos-galar: from UR to B
The decrease of bulky physical attackers and dependence on faster play makes Zapdos-Galar potent, particularly against Intimidate Pokemon and Defoggers. Is quite linear, though.
:scolipede: from C to B-
Similar to Blaziken, Scolipede's strong movepool, although shallower, makes it a good option for teams that want the power of Blaziken while having more applicable options. Also works as a Spikes lead.
:thundurus: from C to B-
Fast Nasty Plot attacker with decent enough bulk and a good movepool that can often overwhelm unprepared teams. Is debatably slightly outclassed by Tornadus, although it does have Volt Switch.
:tornadus: from C to B-
A strong movepool with Hurricane at its forefront paired with multiple other options, both offensive and defensive, and a good stat line to go with it. Pretty much only limited by its bulk.
:tapu-fini: from UR to B-
Regular Tapu Fini provides great defensive value while also having the possibility to work as a stallbreaker with Nature's Madness and often Whirlpool. Is a decent item remover and Defogger too.
:avalugg: from C to C+
In spite of the faster metagame, Avalugg has become quite of a staple on bulkier teams thanks to its stellar physical bulk, Rapid Spin, and decent customisability. It often can wall crippled teams if they are unprepared, and packs a punch itself.
:terrakion: from C to C+
While its standard Bug/Fighting set is less viable, Terrakion's other tools allows it to shine. Fighting/Poison works as a Garchomp-esque Swords Dance breaker, while Choice Band Zen Headbutt EQ sets break common walls.
:xurkitree: from UR to C+
Niche but has been shown to work as a fast "Choice Specs" breaker thanks to its stellar Special Attack. Very slow for a Choice Scarf user, though, so will not outspeed anything boosted.
:porygon2: from UR to C+
Very strong Trick Room setter that can slow pivot.

Drops
:latias: from A+ to A
While Latias is still great, but its ability to become setup fodder for bulkier breakers like Celebi, Slowking-Galar, and Garchomp on top of its lack of type diversity knocks it down a tier.
:coalossal: from A to B+
Coalossal was a huge asset in the bulkier era of the metagame, but with Calm Mind gone a much faster pace has developed, leaving Coalossal behind. It also loses as a Stealth Rock or Spikes user to Latias, a common defogger in the tier.
:dracozolt: from B+ to B
This honestly just fell off. Sand teams are quite awkward now thanks to Rillaboom and Water-types running rampant, so its very limited at what types it could choose. Bolt Beak is also a lot worse in a metagame surrounded by potential Ground-types.
:weavile: from B+ to B
While still strong, the metagame very much dislikes Weavile and a lot of threats and walls alike can often accidentally bully it. Residual chip is also at an all-time high, limiting Weavile's potential even more.
:tyranitar: from B to B-
Suffers from Sand being bad right now. Still a strong Choice Band breaker.
:aerodactyl: from B- to C+
Still a strong Stealth Rock lead for Hyper Offense teams but otherwise lacks consistent output.
:cloyster: from B- to C+
Outclassed by other Shell Smash Pokemon.
:dhelmise: from B- to C+
Strong but the metagame bullies it a lot thanks to its poor Speed tier and limited type combinations.
:keldeo: from B- to C+
Lots of breakers just bully this Pokemon and pretty much everything is Water-type now.
:mandibuzz: from B- to C+
Finds itself getting overwhelmed easily and is depressingly passive.
:regieleki: from B- to C+
Numberous Ground-types in the tier make it much harder to force direct progress. Still notable.
:bisharp: from C to UR
Has a lack of good type combinations and struggles in such a fast-paced metagame.
:gastrodon: from C to UR
:jellicent: from C to UR
:milotic: from C to UR
Lumping all three together since they are all similar in gameplay. The creation of a much faster metagame paired with the passivity of these three Pokemon make them no longer viable in the tier for serious use. Both Gastrodon and Milotic also have a lack of type diversity.
:nidoking: from C to UR
On paper being able to customise the type of one of OU's most formidable undertiered breakers is great. In practice, not much cares, and it will die.
Rises
:heatran: from A+ to S-
:garchomp: from A to S-
:melmetal: from A to A+
:slowking-galar: from A to A+
:slowbro: from A- to A+
:cinderace: from A- to A
:latios: from A- to A
:slowking: from A- to A
:lycanroc-dusk: from B+ to A
:ferrothorn: from B+ to A-
:magearna: from B+ to A-
:Necrozma: from B+ to A-
:porygon-z: from B+ to A-
:reuniclus: from B+ to A-
:tapu-lele: from B+ to A-
:Victini: from B+ to A-
:volcanion: from B+ to A-
:Azelf: from B to B+
:Blaziken: from B to B+
:corviknight: from B to B+
:zarude: from B to B+
:torkoal: from B- to B
:venusaur: from B- to B
:mamoswine: from C to B
:zapdos-galar: from UR to B
:scolipede: from C to B-
:thundurus: from C to B-
:tornadus: from C to B-
:tapu-fini: from UR to B-
:avalugg: from C to C+
:terrakion: from C to C+
:xurkitree: from UR to C+
:porygon2: from UR to C+

Drops
:latias: from A+ to A
:coalossal: from A to B+
:dracozolt: from B+ to B
:weavile: from B+ to B
:tyranitar: from B to B-
:aerodactyl: from B- to C+
:cloyster: from B- to C+
:dhelmise: from B- to C+
:keldeo: from B- to C+
:mandibuzz: from B- to C+
:regieleki: from B- to C+
:bisharp: from C to UR
:gastrodon: from C to UR
:jellicent: from C to UR
:milotic: from C to UR
:nidoking: from C to UR
 
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:rillaboom: CAMOMONS BREAKING NEWS :rillaboom:

Hi everybody! I'm back to share with you the Camomons survey results!

First, I'd like to thanks all the people who managed to take the time to answer the survey! :heart: These (great) answers are definitely helpful for us to moving forward!

:garchomp: SURVEY RESULTS :garchomp:

1. ABOUT YOU

Which status best describes your level/knowledge of Camomons according to you?
1661344196763.png

The majority of respondents consider themselves as experienced Camomons players but there's also 3 people estimating their level to be intermediate and one beginner.

That's the kind of results we might have expected. Without regular tournaments due to Camomons's absence from the OMs Circuit and the removal of the Camomons's ladder, the tier gets, unfortunately, a very low attractiveness. This low attractiveness participates to the sleep of Camomons with a lack of projects making it even less attractive. Here's the vicious circle.
It's of course hard to see Camomons go down like this especially for those who known Camomons golden age from SM to mid SWSH (in term of playerbase/activity) before being replaced by Godly Gift in OM Circuit (while Camomons was part of the OMs Circuit for a short time in gen 6 or 7, it was mostly "just" the 6th slot in WCoOMs and OMPL).

However, we are not going to give up and we will do our best to make Camomons live until the end of the gen! Indeed, since the discussion about revisiting the 6th slot in OMs teamtours, Camomons evolved and has notably resolved issues in term of fun and competitiveness with the last bans.

2. YOUR OPINION ON THE CAMOMONS METAGAME

On a scale of 1-10, how much do you enjoy the current Camomons metagame?
1661344225115.png

Average value of 7.73/10. A very good score of enjoyement meaning that, the few people playing Camomons on a few occasions, find the tier fun and appreciate playing it! We're happy to see such results and we will continue to do our best to increase this value!
Note that if we exclude the value with an absolute difference 2 times greater than the standard deviation, we get a score of 8.1!

On a scale of 1-10, how competitive do you think Camomons is currently?
1661344259900.png

Average value of 7.73/10 as well. Again, a very good mark! It's amazing news for us to know that many of you find the tier to be competitive right now. Indeed, in the past a lot of people complained about the competitive state of the metagame (and I was one of them). We can now definitely say that recent tiering actions improved the state of the metagame and it was thus the right path to follow.
The council will ofc continue to watch the future metagame development to see if some unhealthy or broken elements emerge.
And again the average grade reachs 8.1 excluding the bad mark away from 2 times the standard deviation!

Could you elaborate more on your answers? Is there something you want to share about the metagame?

This was an open question to better understand your grades. I will try to summarize a bit the answers without taking the topic of Calm Mind into account (it was mentionned a lot but was the subject of the next question).

People overall think that there's a lot of diversity in the metagame making it fun and interesting to build in. Competitively speaking, many of you find the Camomons metagame not too MU dependent anymore. Finally, some of you are nevertheless pointing some restrictive mons especially Dragapult and Rillaboom. Lycanroc-Dusk and Heracross were also mentionned.

3. YOUR THOUGHT ON PAST AND POTENTIAL TIERING ACTIONS

Which statement describes the best your thought about the Calm Mind ban?
1661344334647.png

100% of the respondents estimated that the Calm Mind ban was positive for the metagame. To be honest, due to how controversial and unusual this ban was being, when first proposed, not exactly in accordance to OMs tiering policy, we didn't expect such oustanding agreement from the playerbase with it. For us, there's no better confirmation that we did the right thing by pursuing this road even though it was full of pitfalls!
The numerous Calm Minders were indeed considered to be at the center of the known as "bulky setup issue" in Camomons bringing uncompetitiveness by a high MU dependence with a lot of uncompetitive Calm Mind wars. Such bad competitive state also implied, de facto, a lack of interest in the tier which therefore probably participated to the removal of the Camo ladder and its exclusion from OMs teamtours.

For this question you were also invited to detail a bit your answer so again, here's the summarize.

People overall think that the Calm Mind ban had to happen due to how strong Camomons's mecanics interacted with Calm Minders and was positive for the metagame. You think this ban, accompanied by the freeing of Latias, Latios, Reuniclus and Slowking-Galar, contributed to a faster (BO and balance oriented) meta which is more enjoyable compared to the previous fat meta relying on bulky Calm Minders and hazards spam. In combination to this welcome transition, you find this ban contributed to reduce the impact of MU fishing and removed uncompetitive scenarios in Calm Mind wars.

Which statement most accurately describes how you feel about Dragapult in Camomons?
1661344361473.png

The majority of 63.6% finds Dragapult generally balanced but isn't opposed to any tiering action against it. There's then a general feeling of Dragapult to be balanced but mitigated by how strong it is.

Dragapult is indeed one of the two S tier mons in the metagame and there are reasons for that. Dragapult is basically the fastest threat in the metagame making it the best revenge killer to offensive threats with the most common Choice Specs set. Because Dragapult is so fast, you can only deal with it defensively most of the time. However, due to its large coverage bringing unpredictability, you have a limited number of options in "neutral typing + huge SpD" and some rare typings (Dragon/Fairy or Fairy/Grass for instance). There's also band and DD sets to take into account but they are harder to use and more predictible. Finally, Infiltrator is particularly useful to pass through a Garchomp Substitute and revenge kill it for instance. It's also an amazing tool vs Screens HO.

Which statement most accurately describes how you feel about Rillaboom in Camomons?
1661344387561.png

Things are more mixed here with a small majority of 45.5% estimating that Rillaboom is entirely balanced followed by 36.4% of respondents finding Rillaboom generally balanced and, finally, 18.2% of them thinking Rillaboom is broken and should go.

Rillaboom is the second S tier mons in Camomons due to all it provides. Indeed, compared to OU, the additional STAB enables Choice Band set set to work much better. Rilla has thus another move actually dealing damages in Superpower, Knock Off or High Horsepower and doesn't mainly rely on its Grass STAB. In term of utility, this set provides an item remover thanks to Knock Off and a pivot with U-Turn which is great. But what makes Rilla so good is the busted priority in Grassy Glide allowing to revenge kill many threats while not being that easy to take defensively. Finally, Grassy Surge is often a good addition to support mons like Melmetal, Heatran, Garchomp, etc although being also beneficial for the opponent. Rillaboom's Grass typing is also something to take into account as a mandatory addition limitting by itself mons like Zydog for instance. Moreover, while being less played recently, SD LO sets are still threatening being able to pass through usual wall to band set. No item SD Acrobatics can lure usual hard wall to Rilla like Flying or Bug + Fight mons. Due to all these qualities Rillaboom is one of the best mon in the meta and we perfectly understand some people finding it too restrictive (Rillaboom itself is the reason limitting rain so much in Camo while it was a super strong playstyle at a time).


Which statement most accurately describes how you feel about Slowking-Galar in Camomons?
1661344409514.png

A super large majority of 90.9% finds Slowking-Galar to be generally balanced but is not opposed to any tiering actions. Nobody estimates that Slowking-Galar is entirely balanced.

Slowking-Galar was the best example of bulky Calm Minder becoming rapidly out of control and requiring really specific ways to deal with. The combination of Sludge Bomb and Scald to get the defensively strong and offensively good Poison/Water typing while threatening a lot with the ability to spread burn or poison made Gking the scariest Calm Minder. Indeed, with Calm Mind and Slack Off Gking was able to stay versus almost any special attacks after just one CM including Tbolt from Specs Dragapult, Magearna and even Porygon-Z for instance. Physical breakers were threatened a lot by Scald burn making them useless if not carefully in. And even if you manage to deal a lot of damage to Gking, it could abuse Regenerator to come back later and finish the job. The Shuca Berry also appears as a way to prevent strats such a Bliss Teleport into Ground physical mon like Melmetal to kill it. Finally, sets like Water/Ghost also appear because, at this time, Toxic wasn't so good due to many Calm Minders trying to be immune to Toxic. Sub has been played in place of Slack Off too.

The idea behind the unban of Gking was it being more manageable with the possibility to deal with it using Special breakers. Indeed, Gking is still threatening with Nasty Plot instead of Calm Mind but, compared to the later, offensive counterplay is more permitted. The acceleration of the meta with a lot of pivot also helps to prevent Gking to setting up too easily. Finally, Latios's and Reuniclus's reintroduction in the meta offer again more way to deal with Gking. Nevertheless, we still watch this mon carefully.

Which statement most accurately describes how you feel about Heatran in Camomons?
1661344617767.png

For this last, a dominant majority of 81.8% estimating that Heatran is entirely balanced and that no tiering action should take place.

Heatran is now S- tier and continues to prove to be one of the best mon in the current metagame even with the reintroduction of Latis. Heatran provides much to your team with breaking power in Magma Storm + Taunt/Toxic, reliable SR setter and defensive utility with Ground/Fire Flame Body or Ground/Steel Flash Fire. STAB Earth Power pairs well with Magma Storm offering a great coverage and dealing enough damage (if offensive) to 2HKO mons like Water/Ground Def Slowbro for instance. It seems nevertheless perfectly fine to you and that probably due to Latias being able to hard counter it while Latios and Ghost/Water Gking work also well against it.

:dragapult: :rillaboom: :slowking-galar: COUNCIL VOTE :dragapult: :rillaboom: :slowking-galar:

In order to take into account your feelings about these mons and after a discussion between the council members, we decided to vote on Dragapult, Rillaboom and Slowking-Galar. Here's the results:

Dragapult​
Rillaboom​
Slowking-Galar​
The Number Man​
DNB​
DNB​
DNB​
Euphonos​
DNB​
DNB​
DNB​
Siamato​
DNB​
DNB​
ABS​
Clastia​
DNB​
DNB​
ABS​
RESULTS
DNB (0-0-4)
DNB (0-0-4)
DNB (0-2-2)

The council decided to not ban the mons mentionned above as a result of this vote. Although this vote doesn't end in a new meta, it was important for us to do it in order to properly take into account your feelings shared though the survey. If we find these mons to be balanced and healthy for the metagame at the moment (like most of you), we will still continue to watch them carefully.

4. THOUGHT ON RESSOURCES
What do you think about Viability Rankings (VRs)? Are they accurate according to you? Do you find this resource useful?
1661344442378.png

A strong majority of 72.7% finds VRs to be good but don't use them. It was a bit surprising to see that only the remaining respondents really find VRs useful and use it because it's often hard to get a good picture of the Camomons meta in head due to many typings to take into account in addition to mons.

While all of you found the VRs good and said it in the open question linked to the above one, we edited them in order to be even closer from the metagame we were able to glimpse during the Spotlight Trio Tour! We will continue to update this resource ponctually with the tournaments.

Again, do not hesitate to share on this thread your thought about the rankings (if something should rise or drop) or for nomination!

What do you think about the other resources (Speed tiers, Role Compendium and Typing Compendium)?
1661344458595.png

A super majority of 91% finds these resources good! But only almost half of you find them useful. We're nevertheless happy to see these resource helpful for some of you and we will continue to update them if required.

The interpretation of the results of this part by the council is the following: You all find the resources good but, many of you consider themselves as experienced Camomons player and thus, are able to build without needing resources. Resources are particularly useful for beginners in general but, due to a poor attractiveness, there's almost no beginners in Camomons. Some of you also prefer to explore the metagame by themselves without taking too much into account the council's vision of the metagame.

5. ACTIVITIES TO MAKE CAMOMONS LIVE

Will you be interested by a Camomons tour before the end of the generation?
1661344477959.png

A strong majority of 72.8% of you is interested by a Camomons tour hosted by Smogon (like the previous ones).

We're thus happy to announce the submission of a Camomons Tournament proposal in the OM Tournament Queue and Approval Thread! We're currently waiting for OMs forum staff approval and we will come back to you if we get the green light! If we get the approval, you should expect it to start soon due to schedule constraints before gen9. It will be basically the last Camomons tournament of this generation! It's now or never to try this gen of Camomons having reached what's probably its best state since the beginning of the generation!

Will you be interested for other activities outside from tour?
1661344496168.png

Mixed results here but if something people seem to be a bit more interested by battles-related activities rather than teambuilding ones. Indeed, Camomons Iron Chief received multiple mentions as a cool event but too long.

If we're going with the Camomons Tournament for the moment we will think to another activity (that will not completely flop) to do until the end of the gen.

LAST WORD

Is there something you want to share with the council to conclude this survey?
To summarize the answers of this open question, you guys were super kind! :blobnom: There's an overall recognition of efforts made by the council to make Camomons live and you appreciate that. It pushes us to continue these efforts till the end of the gen!

It concludes this analyze of the survey results! Thanks again for your answers and we're glad you seem to enjoy Camomons and support our last actions! Have a good day everybody :heart: Thanks to Clastia for the proofreading! Also thanks to Isaiah for additional information allowing me to correct some inaccurate statements!
 
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:rillaboom:SS CAMOMONS SEND-OFF TOURNAMENT:rillaboom:
Following what I mentionned in my last post, we're glad to announce the opening of registrations for the last SS Camomons tour of this generation! So what are you waiting for to sign in?! You think you will be busy with WCoOMs around? That's may be right but does WCoOMs offer a 50$ prize to the winner? I don't think so (but CA is cool so also sign up for WCoOMs!) hehe. And if you're not interested by the cashprize it's also fine because you can then just enjoy an almost pressure-free tournament to discover Camomons! No excuse then?

"Yeah but Siamato you don't realize it's hard to start Camo without ladder. How can we estimate if Camo is enjoyable or not if we can't try it? How do we build without insight on the meta and without possibility to try our teams?" I heard you.

If you want to talk about the metagame or find an opponent to test your teams or get a better picture of the meta, we invite you to join the Camomons Discord! The council and other Camomons players will be happy to help you! :)

And if you don't want to take a lot of time building (although you have many amazing resources to help you!) or want to test things before the beginning of the tour, we have everything planned!

:melmetal:SAMPLE TEAMS UPDATE :melmetal:

Take a look and try the new Camomons sample teams! The council worked this last days to provide you a wide variety of teams that you can try during the tour before playing your own!

Sample Teams:
Click on the Pokemon to be linked to the team pastes. We're always open for more sample teams so feel free to share your team for review on this forum.

- Aurora Veil HO by Siamato

- Burning Sun by Siamato

- Driving Rain by Byleth and Siamato

- MagChomp BO by Clastia

- Lycanroc-Dusk BO by Siamato

- MagPull BO by Siamato

- Sub Mel + NP Torna Balance by Euphonos

- Double Choice Band Balance by Siamato

- AV Reuniclus Balance by Euphonos

- Gking hazards spam Fat by Siamato

- Hazards spam Stall by Siamato

Hope to see you around in the Camomons Send-Off Tournament hosted by your wonderful Camomons meteorologist, Euphonos! No excuse not to participate guys! ;p

Tagging The Number Man for main sample teams post edition
 
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:torkoal:PLAYSTYLE HIGHLIGHT: SUN AND RAIN:pelipper:
POST 1

Both sun and rain teams emerged as popular and viable playstyle during the on going Camomons Send Off Tourmament. Let's take a look together at the following points:
  • What currently makes sun and rain popular and great playstyle? What are their assets?
  • Things to explore to make new sun and rain teams.
  • How to deal with rain and sun?
SUN AND RAIN: FROM UNEXPLORED TO POPULAR AND EFFECTIVE PLAYSTYLES

:pelipper:RAIN:barraskewda:
I) A brief story
At the beginning of the gen, rain was a busted playstyle benefiting from broken Dracovish and other really good mons like Dragapult (Hydro Pump + Thunder), Drednaw (Earthquake + Liquidation + SD with Bug/Poison coverage for Grass), Kingdra (Hurricane + Hpump), etc. You can still find some traces of this time in this thread like Clefable's post analysing rain having achieved 80% WR during OMPL VIII. The Isle of Armor first DLC nerfed rain by the additon of a great threat to it: Grassy Surge Rillaboom paired with the new move, Grassy Glide. But still, rain had tools to deal with like it like
or
:mew:, a good mon in rain.
When the second DLC, the Crown Tundra, arrived it was almost the fatal blow for rain. Introduction of mons like Latios, Latias or Galarian-Slowking often resisting Water and rain sweepers was another huge nerf. But still, rain managed to do the job thanks to the addition of Tornadus-Therian, better than Mew on rain providing check to Rillaboom, breaking way with busted Hurricane after NP and speed control. Rain had a deep breath when Latis and Slowking-Galar were banned becoming again a great playstyle!
But TornaT was banned some months later. Rain was still a decent playstyle but only allowed to exist thanks to Mew substituting TornaT.
Finally, Mew also got banned finishing to burry rain; now at the mercy of Rillaboom. We can say this playstyle completely disappeared after that but, in fact, it's more accurate to say that the entire Camomons metagame dissapeared (ladder removal + exclusion from teamtours).

The OMs Spotlight Trio Tour ressurected Camomons for some weeks and, a great Camomons player, Byleth, finally brough rain during a game. What made this rain special was the use of
:landorus-therian:. If nothing can replace TornaT or Mew defensive and offensive utility in rain, in fact, we're still able to find something mananing to do the defensive job they did. LandoT indeed provides a great check to most Rillaboom sets as well as a rocker/defogger and a defensive pivot to rain teams which is extremely useful.
And here we are now. Either offensive or balanced rain should at least dedicate a slot to checking Rilla (
or
Peli cannot be considered as a Rilla check mainly because you don't want your item to be removed as well a taking a lot from respectively STAB Superpower and STAB Knock Off).

II) Rain assets

If rain become a popular playstyle in the ongoing tournament, there are 2 main reasons:
  • There are many cool mons to abuse from in rain teams and which make them effective.
  • People are lazy so they obviously play sample team and among them, rain is often chosen smh.
We will forget the last point and focus on the first one.

Rain strength isn't something new and that's a playstyle we can find in many tiers. The goal is basically to abuse from busted Water moves, safely spam moves like Hurricane and Thunder and outspeed everything with Swift Swim. Some good mons also become better in rain like
:ferrothorn: or
:landorus-therian:under the protection of the rain to nerf Fire moves forcing the opponent to think twice before clicking a Fire move under penalty of seeing a Water breaker come in.

III) Rain, an overview of the viable mons
1. The offensive mons
When we think about rain teams we almost all the time think to some powerful rain breakers able to decimate teams unprepared and to brute force checks. Let's take a look at the main rain abusers before searching for new blood and things to explore.

EXCELLENT


Barraskewda @ Choice Band
/
/

Ability: Swift Swim
Close Combat / Psychic Fangs / Poison Jab
Liquidation
Flip Turn
Psychic Fangs / Close Combat / Poison Jab / Crunch / Aqua Jet
Barraskewda @ Choice Band
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Liquidation
- Psychic Fangs
- Flip Turn
Barra is by excellence THE rain sweeper. With Swift Swim under rain, even with an Adamant Nature, you're faster than everything. This speed control combined to powerful move in Liquidation under rain and CC (most common and effective set I'd say), Barraskewda acts as a breaker and and an almost perfect revenge killer. Another point making Barra so good in rain teams is the busted Flip Turn weakening checks and providing pivot, something valuable for rain. The last move is often coverage with Psychic Fangs to hit
or
+
mons, Poison Jab to catch a Grass like Rillaboom on the switch and Crunch vs
or
+
(or
). Aqua Jet is an option but under rain priority is often useless.
So yeah, there's basically no reason to not play Barra on a rain team. It provides just so much and even if it can't break immediatly itself it still acts as speed control and pivot.


Tornadus @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Life Orb
/
/

Ability: Prankster
Hurricane
Dark Pulse / Sludge Bomb / Focus Blast
Weather Ball / Tailwind
Nasty Plot
Tornadus (M) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Dark Pulse
- Nasty Plot
- Tailwind
The rising star on rain teams! Who said we need to be Water to be powerful in rain? Tornadus is the perfect example to show rain isn't just stacking Water mons to spam strong Water moves. With speed above 110, Tornadus is what can be considered as a fast mon in Camomons and isn't revenge killed by common mons in Lycanroc-dusk, Latios or Garchomp. Hurricane achieving 100% of precision under rain, it's a strong move you can spam with 125 Spa stat making Tornadus a good mon. if Hurricane indeed has power, it's much more than that in Camomons. Hurricane provides to Tornadus the Flying which prevents Rillaboom, one of the biggest threat for rain, to revenge kill you. Flying is also a good offensive typing with repsect to the Camomons's metagame. The additionnal STAB can Dark Pulse to add a way to neutral hit Steel and Elec mons and the Dark typing offers interesting (and rare) resists often useful for rain. Sludge Bomb makes Rillaboom cry because even 3 Grassy Glide from Band isn't sufficient to kill it. The Poison typing makes TornaT immunine to Toxic so mon like Bliss cannot use that as a way to beat you. Playing with Sludge Bomb you must use Weather Ball in third slot otherwise you're walled by every Steels outside from Ferro basically. Focus Blast pairs well with Hurricane in terms of coverage and can allow to play another item (not anymore weak to SR). Issue with Focus Blast being hitting ofc. Paired with
:landorus-therian:, it adds another weakness to Fairy, Psychic and Flying with is often not ideal and another reason to not play it although pretty good on paper. Tailwind with Prankster as third slot for Dark or Fight variants make it faster than everything (but Barra under rain lol) and can possibily help a partner in case of Tornadus dying. Weather Ball is also good on the Dark variant to kill
Melmetal or Heatran.
In brief, a really good mon that synergize well with rain mons taking advantage from Grass like Rillaboom.

GREAT


Dragapult @ Choice Specs / Life Orb
/
/

Ability: Infiltrator
Draco Meteor / Thunder / Shadow Ball
Hydro Pump / Surf
Scald / Fire Blast
U-Turn
Dragapult @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Thunder
- Scald
- U-turn

Dragapult is a good rain abuser with both busted Hpump under rain and Thunder. It's pretty similar to Barraskewda being fast and strong with ability to pivot on something else in case the oppo get a counter. I personally find it overestimated in rain and below Barraskewda in terms of fast and powerful threat. Even with Modest, Specs Hpump cannot 2HKO Bliss which is quite sad. Playing it with Barra isn't really an option imo unless you really have a strong counter to Rilla. But it's still common in rain because the combination of Hpump + Thunder in rain is like a dream.



Volcanion @ Choice Specs
/

Ability: Water Absorb
Steam Eruption
Earth Power / Sludge Bomb
Focus Blast / Fire Blast
Sludge Bomb / Earth Power / Toxic
Volcanion @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steam Eruption
- Earth Power
- Focus Blast
- Sludge Bomb
Okok do you remember what I said about rain needing to be more subtle than just spamming busted Water moves? Let's just forget about it there ok?
Volcanion is basically the most powerful special Water mons you can play with busted Steam Eruption. The Modest Nature allows to 2HKO Blissey without SpD invest under rain which is quite impressive. Outside from just raw power, Volcanion offers a Water and Elec immunity to your team which is often really useful for rain. Thanks to the Ground or Poison typing, it's also a solid check to threat like
Garchomp/Slowking-G. Ground variant can also help vs Melmetal, Victini, Cinderace or some Pult and Tios (Elec/Water ones). It's thus a strong breaker for rain with some defensive utility making it a viable mon to use. Unfort it's slow and can't touch things like
Latias. You can also put Defog to offer the possibility to Peli to come back in case of emergency.


Zapdos @ Heavy-Duty Boots

Ability: Static
Hurricane
Thunder / Volt Switch
Weather Ball
Roost
Zapdos @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Static
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 144 Def / 76 SpA / 40 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Thunder
- Weather Ball
- Roost
Who said you need another typing to shine in Camomons? Zapdos initial typing is already good and there's almost no better option ngl. This mon is already known as good in rain with the combinaion of Hurricane and Thunder hitting hard. If Zapdos doesn't blow crazy hits like Water mons, it's always a great addition for rain team providing a check to Rillaboom, Zapdos-Galar, Melmetal or Heatran. It pairs extremely well with mons like
:ferrothorn: or
:landorus-therian: common in rain providing a resist to Flying. Static is always great at fishing para on reckless U-Turn or on scary threats like Lycan or Garchomp. So Zapdos isn't a mon that excels in one role but can fulfill both defensive and offensive roles decently making it a cool mon for more balanced rain.


Drednaw @ Life Orb / Black Sludge / Heavy-Duty Boots
/
/

Ability: Swift Swim
Liquidation
Poison Jab / Megahorn / Body Slam
Substitute / Stealth Rock / Earthquake / Superpower
Sword Dance
Drednaw @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Megahorn
- Substitute
- Sword Dance
Big turtle still great but not anymore the absolute beast it was at the beginning of the gen where it was close to be the BEST rain sweeper with the
set. But yeah the turtle fell hard when Rilla got Grassy Surge and rised as the most popular mon. If Rilla made the
almost unviable, it still has something to do with others secondary STAB. Poison Jab provides a permanent threat to Rillaboom preventing it to come in as well as a Toxic immunity. Overall the typing is really good and allows to setup a Sword Dance on many things to start breaking. Superpower and Earthquake can be used as coverage with this typing only. The Bug variant is also quite thretening for Rillaboom and, although Bug is really bad offensively, it does the job vs Grass and is a strong secondary STAB. Finally, the Normal one is surprisingly not that bad due to Normal being good offensively combined to Water. It allows to hit
/
and Necrozma for instance while not being free for Rilla to come in. Drednaw is thus a mon still decent in rain able to bruteforce almost everything thanks to SD.
Note that Rillaboom Band cannot kill a neutral to Grassy Glide Drednaw from full.

UNEXPLORED BUT WITH A POTENTIAL?

:latios:
/
/
/

Latios @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 Spa / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Thunder
- Surf
- Roost

Latios looks like a slower Dragapult which can't pivot but it actually does damages without requiring Specs. The
benefits from a resist to Rilla's Grassy Glide and a rain "boosted" Thunder and Surf. The typing is really interesting defensively speaking and that's why we use Roost as last slot to benefit from that. The Water variants are also decent but don't resist Rilla anymore. You can use Aurasphere as third slot on
and
if you want to weaken an opposing Ferrothorn.
:beartic:
(
/
)

Beartic @ Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Play Rough
- Liquidation
- Swords Dance

Beartic gets a few assets in a decent Steel move (certainly not perfect tough), Play Rough, a high Atk stat combined to a great bulk and enough speed to outspeed Dragapult under rain. The
is actually a great defensive typing while threatening common defensive Fight with Play Rough. Liquidation is a good coverage move under rain allowing to get an OHKO on Melmetal
after SD and allowing to hit
Heatran.
requires Play Rough as third slot to break defensive Fight but is completely wall by
which is quite bad/sad. The last variant, Ghost one, has merits thanks to Ghost being so good a typing but unfortunately you really lack of power making breaking hard.

:kingdra:

Kingdra @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Spa / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Hurricane
- Ice Beam
- Flip Turn

At the beginning of the gen Kingdra was a strong rain sweeper being the only mon to combine Swift Swim + busted Water move + great Hurricane.
is both good offensively and defensively making Kingdra a good pick for rain. The main issue is the need of Specs to really deal damages making it weak to SR. Was it a sufficient reason to completely forgot about this mon? Idk but it prob still has a niche. If you're crazy enough you can try mixed variant with Liquidation/Waterfall to break through Bliss or King for instance with either HDB or Mystic Water.

:kabutops:

Kabutops @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 32 HP / 244 Atk / 232 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Leech Life
- Flip Turn
- Swords Dance

Well that's a fun mon tbh. Similar to Drednaw but with Leech Life as Bug move potentially allowing to stay full health thanks to recovery. You get a quite strong Flip Turn to weaken things or deal good damages while leaving after a SD. It also gets SR and Rapid Spin which can be used instead of Flip Turn. Knock Off as secondary STAB is an option but get Rillaboomed. Spread allows to take Grassy Glide from band Rilla btw.

:poliwrath:

Poliwrath @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Poison Jab
- Drain Punch
- Liquidation
- Belly Drum

Crazy set isn't it? Altthiel still managed to sweep with this set during a game I'm too lazy to search. If you manage to setup this thing is really scary trust me. The typing combination resist Rillaboom and prevents from being Toxiced. Liquidation allows to hit Ground and is boosted by rain but you can also play EQ to just OHKO
mons like Garchomp or Slowking-Galar. With this mon that's basically all or nothing.

:thundurus:/:thundurus-therian:
/
/

Thundurus (M) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Sludge Bomb
- Weather Ball
- Nasty Plot

The second genius could also find a place in rain? Thunder is ofc the busted move you want to abuse from and Sludge Bomb provides a secondary typing resisting to Grassy Glide, immune to Toxic and providing many resists. Grounds are a nightmare for such combination but hopefully Weather Ball get rid of some like Heatran/Melmetal
. Main issue is
mons and Ferrothorn I'd say. You can try another secondary typing like Grass because STAB Grass at +2 OHKO Melmetal, Slowking and offensive Heatran. But you need to play Sludge Bomb as third slot if you want to hit Grass mons and especially not being free to in for Rillaboom. Steel variant with Flash Cannon is also something you might try with Weather Ball as coverage but it basically suffers the same issues than Poison one. Thundurus > Thundurus-T most of the time because you already get an Elec resist and 10 more Speed is really useful vs Chomp, Lycan, Tios, etc.

:tapu-koko:
/

Tapu Koko @ Choice Specs
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 Spa / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder
- Grass Knot
- U-Turn
- Nature Madness

Koko is usuable in rain with a stronger Thunder than Thundurus's one and provides a better speed control. I still don't think it's particularly great in rain being walled by Ferrothorn but attract Ground can be useful to bring a strong Water mon. You can try some pivot core with a Flip Turn mon. :xurkitree: with Choice Scarf is another option providing speed control as well and sweeping potential with the snowball effect of Beast Boost. But yeah it does less damages compared to Specs Koko and click Volt Switch on a Ground can result in wasting rain turns and momentum.

:inteleon:
/

Inteleon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 4 Def / 252 Spa / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Shadow Ball
- Ice Beam
- U-Turn

Looks like a slower Dragapult right? Well, that's the case. But it still hits harder than Modest Dragapult and isn't so far to get the 2HKO on Blissey. Ice Beam is ofc a nice coverage and it can also pivot but yeah that's all. Dragonillis can make it Sniper.

:espeon:
/
/

Espeon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 4 Def / 252 Spa / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rain Dance
- Dazzling Gleam
- Weather Ball
- Grass Knot

Euphonos played that mon a long time ago as the only mon combining speed and power while getting Weather Ball. I think this mon is outclassed by many things and especially Inteleon just above but we can still mention it in memory of this old days.

2. The defensive mons
As we've seen if the last part, rain is an interesting playstyle taking advantage of busted Water moves, spammable strong moves (Hurricane and Thunder) and rain abilities like Swift Swim. However, a rain built by just stacking these elements will fail miserably against almost every BO/balance/fat well built. The key point to make rain work is the defensive background it requires to not be at the mercy of the best mons in the metagame. Let's see what are the best defensive/utility mons for rain!

EXCELLENT



Ferrothorn @ Leftovers

Ability: Iron Bards
Gyro Ball
Leech Seed
Knock Off / Thunder Wave / Body Press
Spikes / Stealth Rock
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 104 Def / 152 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed
- Knock Off
- Spikes
Well Ferrothorn is THE defensive mon in rain by excellence. Its vanilla typing is just so good in rain with the useful Steel resists but also the Water and Elec ones particularly good for rain. It helps a lot against threats like Dragapult, Melmetal or Latios while preventing Rillaboom to freely spam Grassy Glide. It also acts as a reliable hazards setter with Spikes often pressuring the opponent allowing to bring the rain setter or a rain abuser when he tries to remove them from the field.
:latias: known as particularly annoying for rain to deal with is just the best door for Ferro to come in a put layers of Spikes or annoy with Leech Seed, Knock Off or TW. There's almost no reason to bring another Steel in rain due to how good Ferro is.


Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
/

Ability: Intimidate
Superpower / Hammer Harm
U-Turn
Stealth Rock / Defog
Toxic / Knock Off / Earthquake
Landorus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Superpower
- U-turn
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock

The new defensive star in rain teams! This LandoT provides a great physical check against many common things and especially one of the best answer to Choice Band Rillaboom. Like Ferro, it compresses roles a lot providing momentum, SR, utility with Toxic or Knock Off and even Defog if you want to run something else on your Pelipper. Of course, LandoT will wear down quickly because it has no recovery but that's normally not an issue for rain dynamics. Like Ferrothorn, it benefits from rain "neutralizing" its Fire weakness to be able to deal with Cinderace a bit for instance. You could also play the
which almost does the same job but there you have a "rain resist to Fire". The only issue with this one is requiring Defog to get the Flying type meaning that LandoT should be the Defogger and not Peli for instance. Because SR+Defog is quite bad we often prefer Bug variant to fit SR and let Peli Defog.


Pelipper @ Damp Rock
/
/
/
/
/

Ability: Drizzle
Scald / Knock Off / Steel Wing
Defog / Toxic / Scald
U-Turn
Roost
Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Roost
- U-turn
- Defog
I'm fitting this mon there because it's almost mandatory (see below) for rain as setter and, in fact, it has some defensive qualities. So I know what you think, why should we keep the
typing when we can finally get rid of the rocks weakness? That's not that easy. In fact, Pelipper base typing is defensively great and, for instance, it counters Heatran, a mon surprisingly annoying for rain sometimes. Its vanilla typing also pairs well with Ferrothorn. Finally, using Roost as Flying move and Scald as Water one, you have the space to fit both Defog and U-Turn on your Pelipper adding more and more utility to the mon. If you don't need Defog on Peli (Defog on LandoT and rocks on Drednaw for example), then you can use another typing. U-Turn is kinda required whatever Peli you might try making it a decent defensive pivot. So yeah Peli is certainly not the best mon but it's required as setter and hopefully isn't that bad.

GREAT
Nothing. Joke appart yeah there's almost nothing in this category because we've mostly seen Ferro and LandoT on rain as only defensive oriented mons. But in fact, it exists more "mixed" ones like Zapdos, Latios or Volcanion with both offensive and defensive ability that could fit here. It's not so surprising to see this category empty because let me just remind you we discovered LandoT to be a great defensive mon in rain (but also outside from rain) only recently. If that's not so complicated to find offensive mons to abuse, that's not the case when we're looking at defensive ones. Moreover, there's probably not much freedom because Ferrothorn is god tier in rain and LandoT does its job better than the competition. But still, there's probably something to discover as defensive support for rain because, although my rain sample is spammed across the tour, that's still a quite unexplored playstyle.

UNEXPLORED BUT WITH A POTENTIAL?

:politoed:

Politoed @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 72 Def / 188 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Earth Power
- Hypnosis
- Encore

Well yeah Pelipper isn't the only rain setter! Peli is generally better because it offers Defog and pivot but Politoad's Ground typing addition make it a bit more interesting. Indeed, the Ground typing provides SR resist and defensive utility vs things like Melmetal, Victini, Cinderace, Magearna, etc. Still not a good mon but with a bigger niche I'd say. Crazy people can run Whirlpool Perish Song to hope trapping a Latias or Ferro.


:jirachi:
/
/
/

Jirachi @ Assault Vest
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 240 SpD / 20 Spe
Calm Nature
- Doom Desire
- Energy Ball
- Thunder
- U-turn

Okay so there's almost no reason to do that but let's imagine Ferrothorn isn't your Steel mon because you play some really offensive rain and you only care about bringing in your sweeper/breaker safely with pivot. In that case, maybe, this set isn't so bad. Grass is the best secondary typing for the super useful Water resist to not let Hpump from Specs Pult take a kill whenever it comes in. Doom Desire is not great at supporting rain but is still a decent Steel move and trust me that's rare. Thunder under rain with Serene Grace can be annoying especially because you threat some Ground with Energy Ball and can pivot on the other to bring a strong Water mon.

:celebi:

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 180 SpD
Calm Nature
- Dazzling Gleam
- Leech Seed
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock

Okok so now let's imagine your Grass mon isn't Ferrothorn.
compresses a lot being one of the only typing being able to deal with both Rilla and Pult at the same time, something extremely cool for rain. Leech Seed is the Grass move because Synthesis is bad under rain lol. This move can force things like Latias to switch but yeah that's not great to recover especially for a mon required to pivot. Spread avoid 3HKO from Pult Specs Hpump under rain but if that's not an issue you can put more Def for Rilla. It absorbs status too.


:jirachi::blastoise::flygon:

Jirachi @ Black Sludge
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 180 SpD
Calm Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Toxic
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock

Blastoise @ Black Sludge
Ability: Rain Dish
EVs: 248 HP / 108 Def / 152 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Dragon Tail
- Toxic
- Flip Turn
- Rapid Spin

Flygon @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 100 Def / 160 SpD
Calm Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Toxic
- U-turn
- Defog
Ok at this point you guys should stop reading because my mental health degrades while trying to finish this part. I'm like this guy in front of his copy trying to write something to fill in the blank but that's all bullshit. Last warning! Okok so you'll have wanted it!
in rain because it pairs just super well with Ferrothorn and provides many interesting resists in Grass, Fight, Water, Elec and even Fire. Unfortunately the typing isn't that easy to get while providing utility. And that's what matters for rain! Compress roles and utility in 2 mons (Peli isn't include). That's why I choose these 3. The idea is to put a Dragon move + Toxic + pivot + SR/Rapid Spin/Defog. Yeah there's no space for recovery so we just get rid of it. Jirachi is the only "viable" SR setter pivot with this typing. Blastoise can pivot and Rapid Spin while benefiting from the rain through Rain Dish. Finally Flygon is garbage but Leviate is cool (do not play that I don't want to feel responsible).

IV) Rain counterplay

Finally we reach this part where I give you tips to not lose vs rain!

1. Defensive counterplay

Stop playing team inherently weak to rain. I know it seems perfectly normal but I assure you that this is not the case for all the people. We need to forget about
:salamence::landorus-therian: +
:blissey:or
:slowking: + a defensive Fight because "we need them vs Rillaboom".

So here some defensive mons working well vs rain.

Dragons

:salamence:
/

:heatran:

:latios:
/


Although being rare, defensive Dragon are really good with the useful resists to Grass, Elec, Water and Fire. Salamence checks well Barraskewda and some other mons like Drednaw. Do not play Breaking Swipe as Dragon move please this move is just bad and only useful in some really rare cases. Draco Meteor is just much better to abuse from a good Spa and actually threat frail things. With Roost Salamence can just heal itself when it gets a free turn to keep physical rain breakers in check. Heatran has no recovery but Flame Body will make Barraskewda think about it twice before clicking Flip Turn and with its mixed bulk, Heatran is also able to take hits from Special rain breaker like Hpump/Steam Eruption. Rain classical defensive core of PelliFerroLandoT have some trouble dealing with this set especially if that's Magma Storm.
Side note: These 2 are also great vs sun especially Salamence.
Latios is more a check rather than a really solid defensive mon able to deal with rain sweepers but it's still quite annoying especially with Aurasphere as coverage to hit Ferrothorn.

Waters

:slowking-galar:
/

:slowbro:

:slowking:

:toxapex:

:latias:
/


More common, defensive Waters are often the way to go against rain. The Rege-Water are really good vs rain and especially Gking and Pex particularly hard to chip thanks to Regen and able to check both special and physical threats. Gking is the best dealing well with physical or special threats while working even against non-Water mons like Tornadus. Slowbro is really good at checking Physical threats while Dragon Slowking is often an absolute wall to every Water move. Latias is often overwhelmed by the tremendous pressure if it's alone but still has a good MU vs rain in general although Ferrothorn takes advantage from it.

Grasses

:tangrowth:

:clefable::celebi:

:ferrothorn:


Defensive Grasses are not that common because Rilla is in many teams and acts as the Grass mon thanks to some defensive utility. Tangrowth is a mon somehow underestimated because, although AV set is bad, Phy Def RH is a good mon providing status with Sludge Bomb/Pjab secondary effect and Sleep Powder while Knock Off offers utility. It's a wall versus almost any Physical breaker in rain. Although being easier to wear down compared to Tangrowth, this Celebi and this Clefable help against some rain sweeper like Barraskewda or Dragapult. They are nevertheless not that great due to how "easy" rain can overwhelm them with enough chip. Finally Ferrothorn is both a tool for rain and a counterplay to it. It can't switch on Barraskewda but is overall annoying for many rain sweepers.

Immunity

:volcanion:
/
/
/
/
/


Volcanion is in general super annoying for rain because, at the difference of Tran walled and beaten by vanilla Pelipper,
Volcanion can just sub on something and put you in a really dangerous situation. Basically every set is threatening due to the Water immunity often forcing some really annoying 50/50. Cannot win vs rain by itself technically but is definitely an advantage for you.

:vaporeon:
/


Bad mon but fat wish + pivot. Funnily you can just completely wall Barraskewda depending on coverage and with enough SpD (main set to deal with Dragapult, Heatran, Latios, etc) you're able to switch in almost any special threat outside of
Tornadus. But this mon is bad in general although it offers a SI to
Garchomp.

:jellicent:


At some point in history when rain was just busted, we played that mon because it was one of the best (on only) counterplay to Dracovish that wasn't completely garbage. Now that's still an almost perfect SI to Barraskewda and with SpD invest it walls many Special breaker like Dragapult, Latios, Zapdos, etc. Anw you should not play this mon nowadays. If you ask the Dark move is Taunt.

:cradily:


Cradiloat good mon trust trust. With SpD it takes some hits like Specs Pult and is a natural SI to Chomp or gKing. It puts rocks and has access to recovery. And hmm... ah shit that's all. Well so that's trash in fact. Oops.

Insane bulk

:blissey:
/
/


Well yeah Blissey is like the only one who can boast to deal with Water special threat without resisting Water. After all Blissey is a SpD sponge and sponge absorbs water right? Hmm hmm... So yeah Blissey deals with almost every Special attacker BUT you need to be careful about chip and a Calm/Sassy Nature is required to prevent 2HKO from things like Modest Specs Volcanion with Steam Eruption.

To conclude this subpart, I want to say that only one defensive mon suited against rain will not be enough. First because no mon is able to handle every rain abusers and secondly because although it deals with some rain abusers, it will be pressured too easily if it's alone.

2. Offensive counterplay

:rillaboom:
/


Rillagod. Rillaboom isn't enough by itself to beat rain but is probably the biggest threat for it although there are mons like LandoT. This mon is able to revenge kill almost any Water mon while being able to take a hit if there's no choice. By itself, Rillaboom prevents rain from bringing some super dangerous mons like Dred was in the past. You can force some 50/50 between Glide and U-Turn to grab the momentum which is something really useful against the rain dynamics. Just the easiest counterplay you can fit on a team but certainly not enough to beat a well built rain.

:dragapult:
/
/
/
/
/


Dragapult is just behind Rilla in terms of threat to rain. Specs Water abuses from rain to blow busted Hpump really hard to take and pressuring a lot. Elec variants threats Water and Flying mon we can find in rain. All these variants resists Water and may be able to take a Water move especially the
one. Dragapult main strength is to scare slower rain abusers to deliver a huge blow or grab the momentum with U-Turn. It's one of the main reason to play Ferrothorn with SpD.

:latios:

See above.

:garchomp:
/
/
/


Chomper is able to take a Water move and scares a bit rain with +2 Aqua Tail under rain. It puts SR against Peli and that's a good addition to pressure rain.
are harder to use but depending on how healthy Ferro is, it can become a scary breaker.

Due to how centralized rain defensive core are, every breaker able to pierce through Peli + LandoT + Ferro is good. Some strong Flying, Ghost or Ice move can do a great job vs this core.

V) Some replays

To illustrate rain achievements and failure, let's see directly in practise how it works!

R1 Camomons tour games

MTB vs RobDog747 g1

The old Euphonos's rain against the Lycanroc Dusk BO sample team. The rain got obliterate by 2 huge threats for rain combined together, CB Rillaboom + CS Water Dragapult. Dragapult just broke spammed Hpump without actual switch-in for MTB. Although the game wasn't definitely not play perfecly on MTB's side, it shows how annoying both Rilla and Pult are for rain and the need to prep for.

MTB vs RobDog747 g2

This time Rob brought rain against a team with a really good MU against Water abusers ngl.
:salamence: + :celebi:
+ :garchomp:
is what I call a postive MU vs rain theoretically. But as you will see in the game, the Water mons were indeed well walled BUT rain breaker are more than just strong Water mon. The team was unpreped to
:tornadus: and got sweept. Still the sweep should not have appeared because Tini was here to prevent it but MTB found out too late.

halaman95 vs Clastia

Please, never do what Clastia did, bringing a team with 0 Water resist. Ofc he was just destroyed.

swag god vs txitxas

swag god brought the Zone BO sample vs txitxas rain sample. At preview, I'd have said MU was in rain's favor because the only resist to Water in the Zone BO is Garchomp. But still swag god managed to win by playing aggressively not letting free turns to txitxas to in his breakers. It was still help by txitxas missplay in putting Volcanion vs Zone while it was slower.

Smallsmallrose vs KaiserKaiba

The rain sample brought by KaiserKaiba vs the Beat Up Dragapult Balanced sample. Here the MU for the rain isn't great and although there's no hard counter to Barraskewda, it's super hard for the rain to break through. Even Tran was an issue due to Nature Power taking Volcanion and chipping Peli enough to make it unable to come back on SR. Just a team well prepared to rain is this case although there's probably a way to win this MU.

R2 Camomons Tour games

Fleeting Memories vs halaman95

The rain sample still brought by halaman95 vs some stylish HO. An interesting MU where I expect rain to win but there's Rillaboom and Dragapult so that's not that easy tbh. halaman lost LandoT early in the game putting him in a delicate situation vs Rilla. However, some luck made Fleeting's team at the mercy of Tornadus. The key point here was Volcanion preventing Dragapult to just win by spamming Hpump and that's the reason Fleeting lost this one mainly.

Ponchlake vs Failbor21

Failbor brought some original rain there. This game is exactly the definition of "MU'ed". Against some standard rain, I'll say Ponchlake's team was fine but here Failbor brought this Beartic that just 6/0. There we see the unexplored potential of some rain breakers.

Smallsmallrose vs Quantum Tesseract

Be careful about your Pelipper and especially its Damp Rock. Losing the item is quite annoying and losing the Peli often means death.

R3 Camomons Tour games

palapapop vs RobDog747

Rain sample modified by Rob. Pala revealed a
:salamence: which is really annoying for Rob's Barraskewda and there's also a Rillaboom in back up. Pala did some aggresive play to catch de Ferrothorn early and chip hard the LandoT although it was useless to open a path to Rilla because it died entering in an unexpected Hurricane from Tornadus. Pala won this game after Xurkitree dying from Scarf LandoT.

Beka vs swag god

The rain sample vs some quite outdated fat. Although
:dragapult: is good vs rain, that's still insufficient being the only Water resist of Beka's team. So ofc he got sweept.

Clementine vs giove97

Do not play a rain with 5 Water mons and one resist Grass. Ever. That's what did giove97 and he got Rillaboomed.


VI) Conclusion

STOP SPAMMING MY RAIN SAMPLE TEAM!!!!! That's all. Rain is now a playstyle quite popular so I hope this post helps you understanding better how to make it work and how to play/build against it.

This post is quite long but don't worry it took me like 2 weeks to write it so ig I still have a life? Because it's too long I will not proofread it so feel free to complain about my english or some weird mistakes that can appear. I'll see you in some weeks for sun (or maybe the whole Camomons playerbase will do it because they only talk about sun everyday on the Camomons Discord so fuck them).
 
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shnowshner

You've Gotta Try
is a Pre-Contributor
Debated holding off on this until I was out of the sendoff tour but I've decided the time is now

:mienshao: to B/B+

It is an absolutely SHAMEFUL display of LEADERSHIP and signals implicit CRIMINAL ACTIVITY on behalf of the (Gen 8) CAmomons Metagame Council that this guy isn't in the ★★ MID ★★ RANK of the (Gen 8) Camomons Viability Ranking on Www.Smogon.Com/Forums/Camomons.3656413/

Oh but that's not all

IT'S NOT EVEN RANKED AT ALL!!!!! ???

Perhaps I'm just very lucky so far **editors note this is likely But I've had very good success with this mon and it's an absolute blast to use. High offensive stats + Regenerator is a fantastic combination of traits especially when I can't rely on Tornadus-Therian to do that, you are able to consistently threaten opposing offensive mons and many defensive ones at that with a very strong Close Combat and your choice of coverage: I've come to appreciate Knock Off the most as it an easy way to force progress and still hits very hard against frail stuff or Dark-weak foes. Poison Jab is good complimentary coverage for Fairies and then slap on U-Turn to round out the set.

With smart play and scouting you can pivot in Fighting/Dark Shao into a lot of mons, including scary offensive juggernauts like Specs Pult and Band Urshifu, and immediately start threatening stuff with your STABs. Shao excels at this because Regenerator lets you leverage its offensive presence that much more than mons with better bulk or defensive typings, as long as you're diligent with getting it in to proc Regen, or make sure its time on the field isn't going to waste. Nothing is stopping you from finding safe entry for it either, and it will appreciate those opportunities to stay near-full as much as possible. It's not the strongest attacker out there, nor the fastest, but its a very consistent offensive tool that rewards aggressive and intelligent plays.

I'm nominating it to B/B+ because there's mons in there I haven't once caught sight of in games and if they're sticking around I don't see why this can't join them in the ranks, it's legitimately surprising Mienshao isn't even like C-rank or anything, mon is genuinely strong and brings a lot of value to teams in my experience, nice offensive glue with insane longevity potential and enough raw power to still threaten fat stuff.
 
Debated holding off on this until I was out of the sendoff tour but I've decided the time is now

:mienshao: to B/B+

It is an absolutely SHAMEFUL display of LEADERSHIP and signals implicit CRIMINAL ACTIVITY on behalf of the (Gen 8) CAmomons Metagame Council that this guy isn't in the ★★ MID ★★ RANK of the (Gen 8) Camomons Viability Ranking on Www.Smogon.Com/Forums/Camomons.3656413/

Oh but that's not all

IT'S NOT EVEN RANKED AT ALL!!!!! ???

Perhaps I'm just very lucky so far **editors note this is likely But I've had very good success with this mon and it's an absolute blast to use. High offensive stats + Regenerator is a fantastic combination of traits especially when I can't rely on Tornadus-Therian to do that, you are able to consistently threaten opposing offensive mons and many defensive ones at that with a very strong Close Combat and your choice of coverage: I've come to appreciate Knock Off the most as it an easy way to force progress and still hits very hard against frail stuff or Dark-weak foes. Poison Jab is good complimentary coverage for Fairies and then slap on U-Turn to round out the set.

With smart play and scouting you can pivot in Fighting/Dark Shao into a lot of mons, including scary offensive juggernauts like Specs Pult and Band Urshifu, and immediately start threatening stuff with your STABs. Shao excels at this because Regenerator lets you leverage its offensive presence that much more than mons with better bulk or defensive typings, as long as you're diligent with getting it in to proc Regen, or make sure its time on the field isn't going to waste. Nothing is stopping you from finding safe entry for it either, and it will appreciate those opportunities to stay near-full as much as possible. It's not the strongest attacker out there, nor the fastest, but its a very consistent offensive tool that rewards aggressive and intelligent plays.

I'm nominating it to B/B+ because there's mons in there I haven't once caught sight of in games and if they're sticking around I don't see why this can't join them in the ranks, it's legitimately surprising Mienshao isn't even like C-rank or anything, mon is genuinely strong and brings a lot of value to teams in my experience, nice offensive glue with insane longevity potential and enough raw power to still threaten fat stuff.
First I would have liked to answer your post by blamming The Number Man for everything but he's no longer the Camomons's TL so I can't do that anymore...

Now more seriously, thanks for your nomination! It's cool to see some fresh blood in the Camomons thread to make this tier live until the end of the generation (but we will hopefully come back in gen9 so don't worry)!

Mienshao was already discussed in the Camomons Discord after the release of the most up to date VRs. So, although not being ranked (yet), we tried to find if this mon had a niche or not in the metagame.

We explored the RegenVest set because Mienshao is able to get the
typing, well suited for such role. The main issue with this set was ofc its shitty bulk making it unable to take strong hits and pivot around like TornaT was able to do during its time. So you can try to make some weird set with a combination of speed and bulk to somehow come in some not too strong special moves while being able to abuse a bit from its speed to threat a bit offensive things. I would definitely not recommend to play this set even though the combination of Knock Off + Poison Jab + U-Turn on a RegenVest mon is like a dream. This thing cannot replace AV TornaT and using it to do that will inevitably fail.

Now, about Offensive sets. Mienshao has an interesting offensive movepools with Close Combat, Knock Off, Poison Jab, Blaze Kick, U-Turn and even Acrobatics, Stone Edge and Dual Chop let's say. Regenerator make it what could be a great offensive pivot being able to cancel RH and LO damages. There's here again a small niche for this mon although I find it to be just a worst Cinderace in almost every points.

Let's just forget about the SD breaker set because Lycanroc-Dusk and even
Terrakion are much better for this role with higher speed tier, coverage and bulk. For a SD breaker set Regenerator is not that valuable. What you really want is to find the opportunity to setup and break. Lycan performs well in this role because it doesn't even need to setup to do the job and just get an amazing movepool to break through almost everything. On the contrary, Terrakion's movepool is much more limited but is bulky enough to setup against some common defensive mons while preventing Rillaboom to revenge kill thanks to a Grass resist.

Now about the Choice Scarfer you played in your team during the Camomons Send Off Tour. Well played. It seems you found the best niche of this mon in the metagame.

During the tour it appeared to me that Rillaboom is probably what could be considered as the best speed control in the meta in the sense that CB/LO Grassy Glide is an excellent protection against many forms of MU fishing based on fast setup or "deadbrain" sweeper like
Drednaw under rain or same typing Garchomp or things like
Salamence/Blaziken. I will certainly not make an exhaustive list but Rillaboom limits by itself some offensive typings which is important to maintain things under control in a meta where a check/counter to some sweepers can completely change depending on its typing.
Rillaboom is thus, in my opinion, a valuable element for the metagame holding in leash offensive tools that could lead to an increased match-up dependence by fishing for the good offensive typing.

However, because Rillaboom is such a centralizing mon in the metagame, it's obvious Offense or HO teams prep against it. They trade better offensive typings for a resist to Grassy Glide to make Rillaboom unable to revenge kill them. That's exactly the case in my Aurora Veil HO team (sample) where literally every mon resist to Grassy Glide but Rillaboom itself.

On the other hand, the fastest mon of the metagame and second S-tier, Dragapult, is in fact a limited speed control. If it works well against offensive stuff in general being able to revenge kill some frightening mons like SD Garchomp, Lycanroc-Dusk, Terrakion, BU Zarude, Buzzwole, Cinderace, NP Slowking-Galar, Alakazam, Tornadus, etc which is definitely great and huge, it struggles a lot when it comes to speed setup. Indeed, when Dragapult is outspeeded by something like Clangorous Soul Kommo-o, Scale Shot Garchomp, Speed Boost Blaziken, Shell Smash user, Dragon Dancer, etc, Dragapult becomes almost useless.

In this regard, speed control shouldn't be limited to these 2 mons giving a false impression of immunity to Offense and HO. Don't get me wrong, these mons are excellent and they will certainly be good in these match-ups but are not an infallible protection at all.

Choice Scarfer are thus great again especially because we finally reached what's look like a BO/Balance meta (not too fat anymore). And among them, Mienshao has definitely its niche. Being faster than Garchomp make it able to act as a revenge killer to it even after a Scale Shot boost. CC and Knock are both strong and good STAB when it comes to revenge killing while U-Turn and Regenerator ensure ability to pivot even over a quite long game featuring hazards or RH chip.

Why didn't we (council) find this niche before? Well, while being composed of experienced Camomons players, the council itself may be unable to explore entirely the Camomons metagame. This is unfortunately also supported by the lack of game before this tournament making Camomons a metagame still under exploration and we're happy to see people find new ideas!

No changes in VRs will happen till the end of the Camomons Send Off Tour but I agree with your nomination as B/B+ with this Choice Scarfer set.

Again, I support people to share your thoughts about the metagame here, some teams or sets you find cool or whatever linked to Camomons! Have a good day :heart:
 
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Osake

NOUS CHANTONS L'OCEAN LE BLEU AZUR
is a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Social Media Contributor Alumnus
1667044395871.png

almost as beautiful as Gman

Good morning everyone !

I would like to nominate Cinccino for C/B- rank because Siamato asked me to :x
To put it simply, the Ice-type is broken, and Cinccino has access to Triple Axel boosted by Technician. If you don't miss (big if) you have a terrible monster that hits quite hard with a decent Attack of 95 but mostly an amazing Speed of 115 (reachs 361) that allows it to tie with Azelf, outspeeds Gengar, Zarude, Garchomp... and be an excellent revenge killer without running the Choice Scarf.
Cinccino has access to other tools that have a great utility : U-turn to keep the momentum, Knock Off to remove the Rocky Helmet and not die when you click Triple Axel, and other moves that can put a decent work depending of your needs, the best one probably being Bullet Seed to live a Grassy Glide from Rillaboom after the Rocks (252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Cinccino in Grassy Terrain: 178-210 (61.1 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery), but also having a move that doesn't miss, doesn't make contact, and hits Water-types.
You might say that Cinccino doesn't hit at all Fire- and Steel-types ? Firstly, defensive Fire-types are quite rare (afaik, I don't play much the meta) and even though I've used
:latias: (I'm not fluent at all with the use of camo-types sorry) I don't think it's common? but if that's your concern, you can always run Rock Blast! anyway the only time I faced a Fire-type it was an Entei and trust me it wasn't a switch-in. Steel-types are more annoying, I agree, however most of the Steel-types in Camomons either have a typing that make them neutral to Triple Axel (
:salamence:,
:ferrothorn:, etc) and therefore they die (you'll see in replays) or they don't have a recovery move (mostly thinking or Jirachi rn, that also takes a lot on Knock Off and is easy to chip), and my strategy when playing Cinccino was to pair it with a Tapu Lele so the Steel-type couldn't handle both of them.

Au Nord (Cinccino) @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Triple Axel
- Bullet Seed
- U-turn
- Knock Off

that is the set I was using, nothing crazy, but Knock Off and Bullet Seed can be changed if you want

Replay 1 : first time I was trying the team, Cinccino misses Triple Axel once but is still able to put Ferrothorn at 25%, forcing Siamato to sack it and then there is not switch-in anymore for Tapu Lele (that was an excellent MU for Cinccino thanks to its great speed tier, but even with a miss it was able to break through the Steel-type of Siamato) (forget the Latias btw I'm always doing those mistakes when building Camo)
Replay 2 : not the best to show Cinccino strength but I only have 3 replays so! I played this quite safely bc tour game clause but Tapu Lele and Cinccino were kinda winning at any time thanks to Cinccino wearing down Ferrothorn (+ it can prevent it from recovering!)

( https://pokepast.es/20099cf5be3a0862 the team btw, not the best, not the worst, but funny enough for me even if outside of Cinccino it's kinda a classic build)

and that's everything for me! I got bored after this first team and built some shitty teams with fun sets but overall they weren't great (except the goat Dragapult Expert Belt), but I do think Cinccino has a future in this tier, it's quite funny if you take the time to pair it well and I think my association with Tapu Lele was excellent, but you surely can find others! Have fun everyone, try some new things in Camomons the tier is quite unexplored imo (even if Siamato is rejecting all my ideas..) and a lot of funny mons are waiting for you to discover them..

Have a nice day everyone, and take care ! :heart:
 
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Ducky

Aw Phooey
is a Contributor to Smogon
since im out of the send-off tour i figured i'd talk about my experience and share some of my teams

when i joined the tour, I did not expect to have much fun. I had played a few games of camo for the draft league and for the natdex camo tour, but did not enjoy building or playing the meta, and I did not expect anything to change this time. nevertheless, I joined the tour, thinking that clastia would pass me teams and have a little fun even if i didnt enjoy the meta. I couldn't have been more wrong. after using some super super old teams round one, i decided that since the meta was quite fun, I would put in effort and try to do well in the tour. So, I had Clastia help me build one or two teams and won against swag god, ending the first two weeks undefeated. then, in true ducky fashion, I lost interest in building and asked my bestie ponchlake to send me some teams and recycled them until the quarterfinals. I was really looking forward to my match vs Palapapop, and got some help from Clastia, Ponchlake, and Siamato and built some teams that I felt good about. With their help, I somehow defied expectations and won in Palapapop, despite Siamato saying I was the least favored to win out of all the matches. When I realized I would have to play the winner of Clastia and Ponchlake in semifinals, I was distraught, not only were both tough opponents, but they were also two of my good friends. Ponchlake ended up winning, which meant that my opponent was the person who had been passing me teams the entire tour. I was determined to try my best and make it a close series. I ruthlessly bothered Clastia and Siamato to help me build, ending up with three teams that I was happy with, and one that I felt ok about. Anyways, I lost the series 1-2, but I'm really happy with how I did, despite not getting a great matchup game three. Overall, I really enjoyed playing camo and think the Calm Mind ban was great for the meta.

Anyways, I know I still don't have the greatest knowledge of the meta, but there are a few Pokemon I think should be higher on the VR.

:ss/melmetal:
I think Melmetal should be S/S- on the VR. It has a ton of set variety and offers so much role compression on a lot of teams. I think its Protect set is the best, and you can see from this game vs Ponchlake how it is able to stay alive and help check threatening breakers like Galarian Zapdos with Protect + a Fighting resist. My favorite set to run is DIB, Thunder Punch, Superpower, and Protect, but it's Steel / Ground sets are also great.

:ss/slowking:
There's not much to say about Slowking, but I think it deserves to be raises to A+, it is one of the best checks to Latios and Dragapult, and Teleport and Scald make it such a great glue mon on teams.

:ss/latias: :ss/latios:
Both of these Pokemon are also super versatile and should be A+ as well. Latios is a great special attacker since it also offers a fair bit of defensive utility, and Latias is another great Dragapult check and that also spread Para with Thunder Wave


Anyways time for the part that people actually care about, the teams. I'm only going to share the teams I built cuz I would feel weird posting and talking about teams someone else built.

https://pokepast.es/78f1c067314a082a - The first team I built, very standard team build around Rillaboom and Dragapult. If you didn't know already, I love RillaPult teams. Not so much to say about this team, just VoltTurn your opponent into oblivion until you chip them down enough, then just use one of your breakers to win. here are some examples of me using the team 1, 2

https://pokepast.es/3072999e870bb822 - Oh look, another RillaPult team, what a surprise. This team is super similar to the first, just with a different set of Pokemon built around the core. Necrozma is a super cool mon that is great into Rillaboom and both Urshifu forms, and is a great rock setter, status spreader, and Knock Off spammer. here's the team in action vs Palapapop.

https://pokepast.es/7850ed27114286f4 - A similar build to the last one, but with Latios and Lycanroc-D instead of Rilla and Pult. Team is pretty easy to pilot imo, just use your pivots to get your breakers in as much as possible, just try and keep up momentum and manage the HP of Corv and Necrozma, as Rillaboom quickly becomes a big threat if your aren't careful. here's a good showcase of the team

https://pokepast.es/2a6009a89d9b6d96
https://pokepast.es/215ba4bed4cd5135 - Going to talk about both of these at the same time because they're quite similar and I'm not happy with the results I got with them. The first team is a little better, but both are build around Lele and Pult, and the idea is to try to overwhelm the common Pult switches like Slowking and Latias with Future Sight support. I'll admit that I got a little over-ambitious with the second team, try to to CB Pult to lure switch in like Slowking and Latias, however I loaded into two Steel-types, which greatly hampered what I could do. There are probably the worst two teams here, so use at your own risk, but I think they're at least decent. if you want to see the teams in action you can look at these two games.

This post ended up being much longer than I thought it would be, but big shoutouts to Euphonos for hosting the tour and Clastia, ponchlake, and Siamato for helping me with building. ggs again to ponchlake and good luck in finals king
 
:torkoal:PLAYSTYLE HIGHLIGHT: SUN AND RAIN:pelipper:
POST 2

The second and final post of this serie you waited for!! Yeah it took me a lot of time to finish it but I hope you'll enjoy reading it View attachment 458472

:torkoal:SUN:venusaur:
I) A brief story
At the difference of rain which has been a great playstyle at a time, sun was almost completely forgotten until the first dlc, Isle of Armor bringing back Venusaur. But even with it, sun stayed mostly unused during competitive tournament like OMPL or OMWC. We can still mention Bushtush bringing sun against Euphonos last week of OMPL IX but without sucess. I remember trying sun myself earlier but I can't find a replay so only thing you can do is trust me. I think we can mostly explain this by the really high usage of Flash Fire Heatran, Blissey,
Mew and even Lati@s.
However the metagame changed a lot and sun becomes a popular playstyle (too popular smh) during the ongoing Camomons tour.

II) Sun assets

Like rain, there are 2 things to explain the high popularity of sun:
  • There are many cool mons to abuse from in sun teams and which make them effective.
  • People are lazy so they obviously play sample team and among them, sun is often chosen smh.
We will forget the last point and focus on the first one.

Sun is what we could call an "emerging playstyle" in the sense it really became viable this generation. If there are almost no traces or sun in Camomons, sun was a great and popular playstyle early-mid SS OU. Sun indeed benefits from strong boosted moves under sun like V-Create, Eruption, Pyroball (Cinderace is allowed in Camomons), Fire Blast and even Weather Ball*. The sun also allows to rely on 2-turns hitting moves like Solar Beam or Solar Blade. Finally, Growth provides a good and flexible setup move for sun breaker.
At the difference of rain having quite a hard time vs Rillaboom due the inherent weakness to Grass of most Water abusers, sun benefits from the Grass resist of some Fire abusers. However, outside from 3 combinations, Fire mons are weak to SR meaning that they will be wear down quickly if they don't run boots. So Fire abusers have to choose between staying power with boots or raw power with items like Choice Band/Specs or LO.

III) Sun, an overview of the viable mons
1. The offensive mons
When we think about sun teams we almost all the time think to some powerful sun breakers able to decimate teams unprepared and to brute force checks. Let's take a look at the main sun abusers before searching for new blood and things to explore.

EXCELLENT


Venusaur @ Life Orb

Ability: Chlorophyll
Earth Power
Solar Beam / Giga Drain
Weather Ball
Growth
Venusaur @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 Def / 252 Spa / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Giga Drain
- Weather Ball
- Growth
Venusaur is basically the fastest mon of sun teams benefiting from Chlorophyll to outspeed almost everything and especially some common Scarfer in Tapu Lele, Urshifu or Victini (not Lati@s though). With the Grass typing, Venusaur is a threat to Water mons often used to deal with Fire mons exploited in sun teams and that's why its role in particularly important in sun teams in term of synergy. The Ground STAB is great because yeah Ground is the best offensive typing (in terms of coverage) and it pairs just well with Grass hitting Steel, Poison and Fire mons. However what's really make Venusaur interesting compared to some other Chlorophyll mon is Weather Ball. Thanks to this move it can go through
, quite common defensive typing in Camo and completely walling Ground + Grass combination. It also helps a lot vs defensive Grass or Rillaboom. And finally, what makes Venusaur what's probably the best sun abuser is Growth. Thanks to this setup move, Venusaur can increase its not so good attacking stats to bruteforce some SpD walls like
:latias: for instance.
We have the choice between Solar Beam and Giga Drain as Grass STAB, the first offers much more raw power to break through things faster (you don't need to setup more) but the second one offers much more staying power while not depending on the sun which is particularly important vs rain to hit the Pelipper. If you're crazy enough you can try some mixed variant with Solar Blade and/or Earthquake. Do not play
with Sunny Day as Fire move please and see Shiftry's set above.
The biggest issue for this mon is to be revenge killed by CB Rillaboom's Grassy Glide if it took some small chips.


Cinderace @ Choice Band / Heavy-Duty Boots / Life Orb
/
/
/
/
/...

Ability: Libero
High Jump Kick
Gunk Shot / U-Turn
Pyroball
U-Turn / Sucker Punch / Court Change
Cinderace @ Choice Band
Ability: Libero
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Gunk Shot
- Pyroball
- U-Turn
If Venusaur is the fastest mon in sun teams (in general), it lacks immediate power. Cinderace is just a condensed of raw power while being fast. CB Pyroball under sun just blows almost everything and can even 2HKO some bulky Fire resisting mon like
:latias:,
:heatran: or
Slowking. Every variant resists to CB Rillaboom's Grassy Glide which is cool for such strong and fast but frail breaker. Poison coverage is used to deal with
:necrozma: or
:salamence: while Fighting one allows to hit
Flash Fire :heatran: and
mons mainly. U-Turn is used to hard chip while pivoting on something else tha could make progress easier. You can also replace it by an additionnal coverage move like Zen Headbutt or a priority in Quick Attack or Sucker Punch.
If you want to change move then LO is another possibility but ofc your health will be drained faster. Hopefully Pyroball and Gunk Shot are non-contact move so you avoid RH damages.
The last 2 variants are weak to rocks and thus require HDB to work. On these ones you can fit Court Change to deal with hazards better and eventually forget about a defogger. On the
you can also go with Bulk Up.
Basically nothing to add, this thing is just super strong and really fast.

GREAT


Heatran @ Choice Specs / Charcoal

Ability: Flame Body / Flash Fire
Eruption
Earth Power
Fire Blast / Flamethrower
Solar Beam
Heatran@ Choice Specs
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Eruption
- Earth Power
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam

Heatran is the most powerful special attacker you can run in sun teams thanks to Eruption being able to nuke almost everything from full under sun. Combined to Choice Specs, Heatran is able to 2HKO :blissey:,
:latias: and
:slowking: with Eruption and that's amazing (you don't even need Modest). With Charcoal you lose the 2HKO on Slowking but keep in on Blissey while being able to switch move so you can just finish Slowking with Solar Beam in fact. There's almost nothing this set can't break but ofc the hard task is to get it in while being full and it's something challenging against more offensive playstyles. Flash Fire is a real option there because a Fire immunity is super valuable in sun while you will not really try to fish for Flame Body burns with this set.



Volcanion @ Choice Specs

Ability: Water Absorb
Fire Blast
Earth Power
Solar Beam
Sludge Bomb / Focus Blast
Volcanion @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Solar Beam
- Focus Blast
This thing looks like the above thing and that's indeed the case. Volcanion is the other
you can think about in sun team teams because, if it slower and doesn't hit as hard as Heatran's Eruption, Volcanion gets the Water immunity just excellent for sun teams. We need Modest to get a roll of 2HKOing Blissey under sun. Basically do Heatran's offensive job but less well.


Shiftry @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Life Orb
/
/
/
/
/
/

Ability: Chlorophyll
Heat Wave / Shadow Ball
Solar Beam / Solar Blade / Knock Off / Shadow Ball / Body Slam
Rock Slide / Low Kick / Solar Blade / Solar Beam
Growth
Shiftry @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 116 Atk / 140 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Solar Blade
- Heat Wave
- Rock Slide
- Growth
Who said Venusaur was the only viable Chlorophyll sun sweeper?? Shiftry has definitely its place in sun teams! What makes it interesting compared to Venusaur is Heat Wave. Because it has access to such good Fire move, Shiftry doesn't require to play Sunny Day to get the Fire typing allowing more coverage. The Fire typing allows to hit hard with STAB and sun support while offering a Grass resisting making Rillaboom unable to revenge kill unlike Venusaur. Because Shiftry has good Atk and Spa stats, you can try some mixed variant to abuse at most of Growth mixed boosts. You have plenty of choice in terms of typing but all Fire based almost required boots to work. A really cool mon unjustly completely overshadowed by Venusaur.


Victini @ Heavy-Duty Boots/Choice Band/Choice Scarf

Ability: Victory Star
V-Create
Bolt Strike
U-Turn
Trick / Toxic / Solar Beam / Brick Break
Victini @ Choice Band
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- U-turn
- Trick
Victini is somehow between Heatran and Cinderace, it's as bulky as Heatran, hits harder than Cinderace (with V-Create only) but is slower than this last. The weakness to SR without boots is annoying especially because you can't spam V-Create due to Speed drop so you need to come again in the field. I don't think it's particularly good especially because
Flash Fire :heatran: walls it perfectly and is harder to use in practise with respect to what we think. Still great to see "frail" Dragon like Dragapult or Latios disappear if they enter in Band sun boosted V-Create or 2HKO fat mons resting Fire like Slowbro or Necrozma lol.

UNEXPLORED BUT WITH A POTENTIAL?

:heliolisk:
/
/
/
/
/
/

Heliolisk @ Choice Specs
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Volt Switch
- Solar Beam
- Weather Ball

Ngl 2 more points in Speed and this mon would have been great! It's probably the best Solar Power abuser with a large movepool including Solar Beam, Weather Ball, Dragon Pulse to hit Dragon types and strong pivot. Although being slower than 110 mons in Lycanroc-Dusk and Lati@s, the speed tier is still okay-ish so it can probably be a decent breaker in sun teams. I will not recommend LO because your life will be drained super fast. Depending on coverage you can hit
:blissey: or
Flash Fire :heatran: which is cool. Funny mon to try!
:zarude:

Zarude
Ability: Leaf Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Acrobatics
- Bulk Up
- Synthesis

Yeah although being in my sample team this mon is still quite unexplored in sun in my opinion. With Leaf Guard you're immune to status which is cool and you get a 75% recovery move in Synthesis to abuse more from Zarude's pretty good bulk. This mon, while being offensive, is a natural great check to Rillaboom which is hard to fit sometimes but still important in sun teams. The speed tier is decent but not great. The typing is just so cool offensively and defensively.

:leafeon:
/
/

Leafeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Solar Blade
- Iron Tail
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance

Hmm... It has Chlorophyll making it fast under sunlight with a great physical bulk and with the ability to setup with Sword Dance. If you're crazy you can put Weather Ball and Growth while Leafeon'Spa is garbage... I don't see any reason to run this mon but :blobshrug:

:blacephalon:
/
/

Blacephalon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Shadow Ball
- Flamethrower
- Solar Beam

Blacephalon can be cool as a late game sweeper thanks to Beast Boost. Otherwise it acts as an additionnal speed control. You can try Boots too but you might lack speed and power at the same time...

:dragapult:
/
/
/

Dragapult @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Solar Beam
- U-Turn

This is Dragapult and it gets a Fire move so ofc there's always a way to make it work you know (this is bad pls don't run it). But for real, who knew Draggapult learnt Solar Beam??

:thundurus:/:thundurus-therian:
/

Thundurus (M) @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave
- Dark Pulse
- Weather Ball
- Nasty Plot

Weather Ball + Speed + Good Spa + Broken typing, nothing to add :d. Fire Weather Ball allows to delete Melmetal or Jirachi.

:celebi:

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 216 HP / 252 SpA / 40 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dazzling Gleam
- Giga Drain
- Weather Ball
- Nasty Plot

Celebi has a super good defensive typing really usefull in sun team while getting the bulk to take hits. The possibility to use Weather Ball as coverage make it really interesting although Earth Power wasn't a bad option lol. So you trade the ability to hit Fire mons to hit
or
. Is it worth? Idk.

:magearna:

Magearna @ Life Orb
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Solar Beam
- Shift Gear
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt

Just a Magearna losing to Fire mons as usual but now it cant break
:slowking:! Mention to :celesteela: with Solar Beam and Autotomize with Flamethrower/Fire Blast and Meteor Beam which is similar to this Magearna.

:blastoise:

Blastoise @ White Herb
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Flash Cannon
- Weather Ball
- Shell Smash

I think it's time to sleep. Good defensive and offensive typing with Fire coverage to hit Steels. I can't see this thing work but a Camomons slot managed to win OM Trios Tour with a
Blastoise so everthing is possible ig.

:ninetales:
/

Ninetales @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Hypnosis
- Nasty Plot

Sun setter + sun breaker all in one let's go!

Honestly you can think to some other things as usual such a Darmanitan with broken Flare Blitz, Tangrowth Chlorophyll or idk but they're pretty much always outclassed by something higher in this list.

2. The defensive mons
As we've seen if the last part, sun is an interesting playstyle taking advantage of busted Fire moves, free charge strong moves (Solar Beam and Solar Blade) and sun abilities like Chlorophyll. However, a sun built by just stacking these elements will fail miserably against almost every BO/balance/fat well built. The key point to make sun work is the defensive background it requires to not be at the mercy of the best mons in the metagame. Let's see what are the best defensive/utility mons for sun!

EXCELLENT



Heatran @ Leftovers

Ability: Flash Fire
Solar Beam
Flash Cannon
Magma Storm
Stealth Rock / Toxic / Taunt
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 104 Def / 148 SpD / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Solar Beam
- Flash Cannon
- Magma Storm
- Taunt
If Heatran is offensively great with busted Eruption, it's also one of the best defensive option for sun with the
typing supported by Flash Fire. It absorbs Fire and Water moves well while threatening Water, Ground and Rock, all threats for Fire mons. The typing is just so good defensively against many threat such as
:latias: and
:slowking:,
:necrozma: and some :latios:. It surprisingly hard to switch in this mon with some common defensive cores and especially because Taunt make :latias: and :latios: lose.


Slowking @ Eject Button
/

Ability: Regenerator
Earthquake
Scald
Teleport
Slack Off
Roigada (Slowking) @ Eject Button
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Earthquake
- Scald
- Teleport
- Slack Off

Slowking is great with or without sun but it's one of the best pivot you can find in sun teams. If I will not recommand it in rain teams due to the inability of Slowking to still check things like Dragapult (Hpump does too much under rain to the
one), it gets "a resist" to Water thanks to the sun while keeping the ability to switch in mons like
Heatran particularly threatening for sun teams. Eject Button give you a free swich into a sun breaker/sweeper that may be hard to enter such as Cinderace while pairing perfectly with Regenerator to recover. Regenerator is also the main reason to play this mon over Blissey because clicking the recovery move make you lose sun turns and momentum which is definitely not ideal for sun teams.


Torkoal @ Heat Rock
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/
/
/
/

Ability: Drought
Lava Plume / Body Press
Body Press / Earth Power / Gyroball / Iron Defense / Solar Beam / Toxic
Stealth Rock
Rapid Spin / Something else because RS is bad
@Clastia(Torkoal) @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- Body Press
- Lava Plume
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
Torkoal aka the Clastia's mon is of course the sun setter so although it might be not good, you will have no choice but to run it. But in fact, it is not. Torkoal is actually a good mon for sun teams providing more than just "sun". The use of Earth Power, Body Press or Gyroball as secondary STAB while keeping the Fire type makes it neutral to SR which is a huge improvement compared to the initial one. Moreover, STAB Body Press actually deals damages lol. Lava Plume is great because it threats a lot with with burn. Torkoal can be used as SR setter too so you can have more freedom in your remaining defensive slots. Finally it also got Rapid Spin making it a bad hazard removal but still a hazard removal. There are other combination especially Body Press + Iron Defense that can be scary lol. Some Torkoal's typing makes it able to switch in Rillaboom (you don't like getting knocked though) which is great. Best and great sun setter providing and condensing utility!

GREAT
Nothing. Again, we didn't see many sun teams because mine was spammed accross the tournament so we can't say much. Zarude gets some interesting defensive utility so it might be in this part but I will just let it in the offensive one. Celebi too. We can also think to some Landorus-Therian being either a hazard setter or removal while providing pressure and momentum for sun teams.

UNEXPLORED BUT WITH A POTENTIAL?

:exeggutor-alola:

Exeggutor-Alola @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 248 HP / 228 Def / 32 SpD
Bold Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Moonlight
- Knock Off
- Teleport

I really wanted to test this mon in sun LOOOL.
is just a goated defensive typing and Moonlight under sun is actually a great recovery move. Moreover, you have Harvest under sun to get a Sitrus Berry each time you eat one which is fantastic! Unlike Necrozma, this one gets pivot so it really helps entering your breakers. Knock Off provides utility but you can also run Flamethrower to lure a Steel or a Grass move to get a
. Fun mon we need to try!

:landorus-therian:
/

Landorus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Superpower
- U-turn
- Toxic
- Defog

I already explained in the rain post and just a bit higher there why LandoT will always have a card to play in sun teams while not being as good as it is in rain teams.

:slowbro:
/
/


Slowbro @ Eject Button
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 208 Def / 52 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Scald
- Toxic
- Teleport
- Slack Off

This is Slowking but worst I think. Like you alread has a physically tanky mon in Torkoal so you might prefer Slowking SpD bulk. But still Slowbro is a good slowpivot able to switch in Fire and Water moves well.

IV) Rain counterplay

Finally we reach this part where I give you tips to not lose vs sun!

1. Defensive counterplay

Stop playing team inherently weak to sun. I know it seems perfectly normal but I assure you that this is not the case for all the people. We need to forget about
:salamence::landorus-therian: +
:blissey:or
:slowking: + a defensive Fight because "we need them vs Rillaboom" kek.

So here some defensive mons working well vs sun.

Dragons

:salamence:
/

:heatran::garchomp:

:necrozma:

:latios:
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/


Although being rare, defensive Dragon are really good with the useful resists to Grass, Elec, Water and Fire. Salamence checks well Cinderace and Venusaur which is amazing for a mon alone. Do not play Breaking Swipe as Dragon move please this move is just bad and only useful in some really rare cases. Draco Meteor is just much better to abuse thanks to a good Spa and actually threats frail things. With Roost Salamence can just heal itself when it gets a free turn to keep sun breakers in check. Heatran has no recovery but Flame Body will make Cinderace think about it twice before clicking U-Turn and with its mixed bulk, Heatran is also able to take hits from Special sun breaker like Fire Blast from Volcanion, Dragapult, Blacephalon, etc. Defensive Garchomp works the same way with sometimes Protect helping wasting sun turns.
Side note: These 2 are also great vs rain especially Salamence.
Necrozma is theoretically great vs sun especially with Moonlight to heal 75% of its max health but in practise things are more mixed. Cinderace gets Gunk Shot, Venusaur Earth Power at +2 is too much and Necrozma isn't particularly bulky on the special plan meaning it can be really hard to enter in busted special Fire moves.
Latios is more a check rather than a really solid defensive mon able to deal with sun sweepers but it's still quite annoying for them especially because
walls Venusaur while
can absorb busted Fire moves well such a Pyroball or Eruption under sun.

Waters

:slowking-galar:
/

:coalossal:

:slowbro: