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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
- Start date
tfw P5Royal and Scramble got announced and released way before SMTV even gets a second trailer....It's called "self induced delusion".
Us SMT fans know this very well
Well, the whole Unite thing has finally converted me over to the "I don't want DP remakes" crowd. Not because of a sudden drop in confidence in Game Freak or anything but because of how I've become exhausted over the whole concept with how much people have been begging and screaming for it and upon mulling it over I'd much rather GF expend the effort on other projects, Pokemon-related or otherwise.
Like DG said, if something Gen 4-related must happen, just go with Platinum Remastered or something. Honestly nah I don't even think I want that anymore, just slap a couple of ports of DPP onto the Eshop and be done with it.
Like DG said, if something Gen 4-related must happen, just go with Platinum Remastered or something. Honestly nah I don't even think I want that anymore, just slap a couple of ports of DPP onto the Eshop and be done with it.
I share the frustration with a lot of the fanbase lately, but why stop wanting something because other people are obnoxious about it?
Anyone familiar with GF and Nintendo's core series marketing strategies would have known that DP remakes weren't coming. For the past eight years, Nintendo has aimed to publish a new core series game just before Black Friday (aside from the 2015 gap to presumably line up the 20th anniversary). When they do this, new regions have more content to show off and draw out the hype, so they're revealed about 9 months in advance (which since 2016 has lined up nicely with Pokemon Day). Games that aren't new regions have less content and get revealed about 5-6 months in advance instead (which instead lines up nicely with E3).
So to back up a bit, when a Direct was announced for Jan 2020, it couldn't have been either DP remakes or "Ultra SwSh" - either Nintendo would miss Black Friday or they'd have dry bare-bones content reveals spread out all year.
Now of course it's obvious that IoA and CT are intended to take the place of any "Ultra SwSh", and GF pretty much said so during the Direct by comparing them to Platinum and USUM. The DLC now takes the spot of "this year's core series release" and there's no way they're going to announce another one before the beginning of 2021 at least. A Let's Go Johto would count as a GF core series release for this purpose (their own marketing).
One other thing that we could have seen coming but was unfortunately lost in translation was the Japanese name of the video, which ends in 発表会 ("announcement") and used to be always translated into English as "Press Conference". They went with a different name this time ("Presents") due to it not actually being live with press, and this unfortunately probably gave the wrong impression to a lot of people that it was going to be more Direct-like (which focuses on core series games). Instead, we should have expected reveals similar to the other Press Conferences - almost all mobile games and apps (Go, Quest, Home, Sleep, Masters). New Pokemon Snap (and Detective Pikachu sequel from 2019) turned out to be a nice surprise, but as non-GF spin-offs they don't interfere with the already-established core series schedule. (Yes, the 2018 Press Conference revealed Let's Go, but the timing of that announcement fit into the core series schedule, and any Let's Go Johto reveal wouldn't.)
No way to prove this now, but I was originally going to shitpost something about the Gen 2 background plushies secretly being for "Pokemon Quest 2" hypothetically adding blocky pixellated Johto 'mons to the Kanto-exclusive Quest. Then we got something very entirely different....
In any case, there's no way I can believe we're ever getting a DP remake announcement until something like May/June 2021, May/June 2022, or May/June 2023. (This means that if E3 2021 comes and goes with no hint of a DP remake, we shouldn't expect it for another year.) Anything else would mess up their prerelease marketing and Black Friday sales, pointlessly reducing their revenue for no benefit.
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I think the appropriate time for a DP remake is sadly behind us. The games were out in 2006/2007; kids who grew up with them are way outside the target demographic for Pokémon already.
Remember that FRLG came out in 2004, that's only 6-8 years after the original games, depending on region. HGSS were 8-10 years after the original games too, while ORAS were 11-12 years after their originals. If DP remakes come out next year, it'll be 14-15 years after the originals. Granted, it'd be "only" 12 years after Platinum in certain regions, but I still think the time gap would be stretching their viability quite a bit. Counting the third versions, FRLG was 4-6 years after Yellow (meaning that by 2021, USUM will have been around for longer than Yellow had been in Europe when FRLG was released there), HGSS was 9 years after Crystal, and ORAS was 9-10 years after Emerald. I think it's too late for Sinnoh by now.
Plus, as I've said many times before, I don't think Game Freak has any interest in remaking Sinnoh. Recreating the region would be too much work (barring a top-down style game like LGPE), and the game deviates too far from their current design philosophy. I think they would prefer to create a new region from scratch with their current design parameters, rather than remaking a DS game within all the constraints it came with.
Honestly, the time for DP remakes was back in 2017/2018 (I'd almost certainly prefer to see them over the Let's Go games any day; maybe not USUM, though). It kind of sucks, because I've always preferred gen 3 over 4 and felt that the latter generation needed to be remade more than the former did. But then again, if they leave out the Distortion World and expanded dex from Platinum, and whatever we get instead isn't able to make up for them, then I probably wouldn't care much for those games either. That's the main reason I have no interest in playing LGPE as long as FRLG exist; no Sevii Islands, only the first 151, and a whole bunch of features taken out in favor of... candies. Yay...?
Y'know from time to time I still see people talking about a Pokemon MMO. I don't think the dream is as fervent as it was 5-10 years ago but it definitely still exists. I mean look at all the fan-games tryna fill that niche.
What I find most interesting about these requests is that the Pokemon MMO has already been made and is currently running. You may know it as Pokemon Go.
No really, think about it
-Constantly inter-connected, massive open world (in this case the Earth itself)
-A handful of factions that each player joins and supports as they play the game
-Raid battles with big drops that emphasize player cooperation and coordination
-PVP system with Leagues
It checks off a ton of the staples of the genre, don't ya think?
What I find most interesting about these requests is that the Pokemon MMO has already been made and is currently running. You may know it as Pokemon Go.
No really, think about it
-Constantly inter-connected, massive open world (in this case the Earth itself)
-A handful of factions that each player joins and supports as they play the game
-Raid battles with big drops that emphasize player cooperation and coordination
-PVP system with Leagues
It checks off a ton of the staples of the genre, don't ya think?
I think you forgot something pretty crucial. MMO is short for MMORPG, and Pokémon GO isn't an RPG. The whole point of the game is that you're not roleplaying another character, but rather controlling yourself -- to the point that physically walking around your own city or town is the primary gameplay. When the purpose of MMORPGs is to escape into another world, Pokémon GO can't fill the brief.
With that being said, we've technically kinda sorta had an MMO entry in the series already: Gen V. Using the Dreamworld, players were able to enter each other's worlds and interact with each other in realtime, travelling around the region together. It was extremely bare bones and seemed like a test for greater things to come, probably sparking a lot of the hype around the possibility of a true MMO. But now that it's been a decade without any new trials, the excitement at the prospect died of natural causes. Crying shame.
You mean somehting like that PokeMMO in which people were playing through the first five regions with sprites and no models, but some of the playerbase kept asking how to jump over trees due to a graphical glitch? I don't think we'll get anything like that soon unless it takes place in a different world.
IDK if I said this before but Pokemon games should abandon the "deep" and "complex" villain stories and motivations. It worked once with gen 5, and then every time they try to pull that shit again it falls flat. XY "Oh I hate ugly things so I must destroy all pokemon." SM "My husband disappeared and now I'm obsessed with a space jellyfish, whilst driving my family away from em because I'm an abusive PoS" SS "I GOTTA SOLVE THIS ENERGY CRISIS THAT'LL HAPPEN IN A CENTURY RIGHT NOW AND INTERRUPT EVERYTHING BECAUSE I CAN LITERALLY NOT WAIT A DAY FOR THE CHAMPION TO HELP ME!"
Honestly I think we should remove villains all together and have a game that focuses more on the journey of becoming a pokemon master, while fleshing out the gym leaders and E4 more. Namely because while gamefreak can make some decent to good characters, their overall narrative skills aren't really that good.
Honestly I think we should remove villains all together and have a game that focuses more on the journey of becoming a pokemon master, while fleshing out the gym leaders and E4 more. Namely because while gamefreak can make some decent to good characters, their overall narrative skills aren't really that good.
Yup. What will make people love the games is much more detailed, realistic -- and therefore immersive -- worldbuilding. The over-the-top apocalyptic storylines have the opposite effect because they're usually so farcical. The same obviously goes for the battle gimmicks.
Eh, for some of those (XY and SS especially) I wouldn't describe the villain stories as deep or complex. I'd describe them as trying to be deep and complex and falling flat on their faces. Though I'm with you in wanting to drop the villain plot altogether. Giving each mainline Pokemon game two plots that are almost entirely unrelated to each other (the champion plot and the villain plot) is such a bizarre choice that I'm baffled not only as to why it's continued, but as to why it was done in the first place.
Besides, honestly if the whole yell/rose plot didn't exist, SwSh would have a pretty solid journey storyline about actually becoming the champion.
This has got me wondering how it'd be if the secondary story from HGSS - the player proving themselves worthy to encounter a legendary - was the sole focus of the game, without any antics from Team Rocket or any other group of evildoers being involved in the story at all.*
Other elements could make their way in. Perhaps a more involved story with the rivals - I always liked the idea of having one rival who was battle-focused and takes the starter strong to yours, and one who was fixated on completing the Pokedex and takes the starter weak to yours (DP, BW, and XY all worked with this idea, but not to the fullest extent IMO) and you'd have to help them both to achieve their full potential. Perhaps the Gym Leaders are having personal/professional problems you need to help with. I've always liked Alder's backstory; perhaps the champion of this region could be grooming you to take their place, intending to retire once a good enough Trainer beats them. All of these elements have been done before to one degree or another, but they've always taken a backseat to the overarching plot.
Personally, I'd be very up for it. Always open to a change of pace.
*(I seem to recall this theme being discussed a few pages back, or it might have been in the "things that annoy you" thread)
Well yeah, that's the problem. If the events seemed believable and you could buy into them, the stories might be effective. But they are usually very far off. Plotlines like Team Rocket trying to poach and sell Slowpoke tails, on the other hand, are totally credible and therefore work much better. But these people want to go for a big spectacle every time.
Yeah, but the legendary plot does exist. And you have to jump through mental hoops constantly to try to justify the big Pokemon gimmick to yourself to avoid having that ruin things. And you have a soon-to-be "professor" looking at statues in restaurants to study history, or whatever.Worldie said:
Counter-opinion: I am completely and utterly apathetic towards BW1's writing. This isn't a matter of me thinking that it's just the least shit out of the entire series in that aspect or that it's inferior to Gen 7, no, I straight up prefer stuff like ORAS and parts of SWSH too. I think this comes down to the fact that to me at least BW1 in particular just felt way too dry and matter-of-fact with its dialogue and the themes it was trying to convey. I dunno, I just feel like with the examples I listed the writers were having more fun and were able to do a whole lot more showing rather than telling. Admittedly the 3D games are at an inherent advantage in this regard due to the whole fully rendered character models and animation thing, but even with that aside I found characters like Maxie, the IoA rivals and Lillie had more engaging dialogue and interactions with the player on the whole than, say, N.
Actually, I just thought of a decent example of what I'm trying to get at: Guzma's house VS Sea Mauville VS N's room in BW1. The first is an optional location a bit off the beaten path that, being on Melemele, is visitable before you even meet the guy. The second is even more out of the way, mandating a dedicated trip once you get Surf to go visit it, but you're rewarded with heaps upon heaps of lore detailing things like Professor Cosmo's failing marriage and some of the darker aspects of Mauville-licensed operations. As for N's room the execution of the place with the whole creepy child-like aura is fine enough and a pretty unique mood for Pokemon but it really bothers me how when you show up on the floor it's on the Shadow Triad pops in, points the player in the direction of the room and is like "Go inside the room of our master N and see if you feel anything (hint hint wink wink we want you to experience this location)". Even though you aren't forced to go in it still feels so unnecessarily heavy-handed, like they don't trust the player to discover the lore and connect the dots on their own as well as denying a dramatic reveal that would've worked without this really ham-fisted nudging: Imagine stumbling in there out of curiosity with no guidance expecting just another little dining room like the others only for you to take in your surroundings and let it slowly dawn upon you that not only is this N's room but he still plays there, indicating how disturbed and emotionally immature he really is. That still exists to an extent, but it would've been so much more effective without that aforementioned pointless nudge. Stuff like this plagues BW1, really dragging it down and making certain segments a snore.
Actually, I just thought of a decent example of what I'm trying to get at: Guzma's house VS Sea Mauville VS N's room in BW1. The first is an optional location a bit off the beaten path that, being on Melemele, is visitable before you even meet the guy. The second is even more out of the way, mandating a dedicated trip once you get Surf to go visit it, but you're rewarded with heaps upon heaps of lore detailing things like Professor Cosmo's failing marriage and some of the darker aspects of Mauville-licensed operations. As for N's room the execution of the place with the whole creepy child-like aura is fine enough and a pretty unique mood for Pokemon but it really bothers me how when you show up on the floor it's on the Shadow Triad pops in, points the player in the direction of the room and is like "Go inside the room of our master N and see if you feel anything (hint hint wink wink we want you to experience this location)". Even though you aren't forced to go in it still feels so unnecessarily heavy-handed, like they don't trust the player to discover the lore and connect the dots on their own as well as denying a dramatic reveal that would've worked without this really ham-fisted nudging: Imagine stumbling in there out of curiosity with no guidance expecting just another little dining room like the others only for you to take in your surroundings and let it slowly dawn upon you that not only is this N's room but he still plays there, indicating how disturbed and emotionally immature he really is. That still exists to an extent, but it would've been so much more effective without that aforementioned pointless nudge. Stuff like this plagues BW1, really dragging it down and making certain segments a snore.
While grounded villains like Rocket and Skull are nice and definitely easier to do well, I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with spectacular villain plots. I think just in general, a villain's actions matter much less than the emotions they elicit. Just to run down the list of my favorite villains (in no particular order):
- Bowser: Funny and touching that this princess-napping dragon turtle and the face of all video game villains is also a loving father.
- Dr. Doofenshmirtz: Absolutely hilarious with his extremely petty motivations, childhood full of absurd tragedies, and general ineptitude.
- The Beast from Over the Garden Wall: The most pure distillation of Satan I've ever seen. A chilling mix of sinister and seductive.
- Uncle Iroh: So warm and loving that it makes me wish he was my uncle. Also has a devastatingly heart-breaking motivation that is almost impossible to not empathize with.
- Princess Azula: The way she manipulates and psychologically abuses everyone around her is terrifying. Knowing that there are actual people in this world who are just as cold-hearted as her is even more terrifying.
This is what I really like about Gens 1 and 2. They have a very minimal story, which makes them more replayable, compared to Gens 6 or 7 which are harder/less enjoyable to replay IMO.
Girl, my OCD/ADHD is making it difficult to post this since I kept going back and forth and maybe I'll go back and flesh this post out more later.
I'm of the opinion that it didn't completely work with Gen 5 either but at least it made you think about the ethics of being a Pokemon Trainer and the role pokemon play in the world.
I don't even think SwSh trying to be deep or complex. The plot was very much standing around while Sonia prattles off her theories about Darkest Day/two heroes. Did not care at all nor was invested in the plot. It was like girl imma need you to GTF ASAP so I can go back to training up Hagerene and Grimmsnallah
Honestly... no. Maybe that idea could be pulled off by a really well-written fanfiction, because there's no way that any official Pokemon product would ever cover this topic and BW1 proves it. The Pokemon liberation debate is easily the weakest link in its story because the mere fact that Pokemon still has to sell merchandise and games and shit ensures that they would never explore such a topic with anything resembling nuance so it just ends up feeling way more shallow and one-sided than it should be.
Also are people out here seriously stanning Gen 2 Team Rocket? In case you needed a reminder here's the level we're dealing with with these losers:
I've already published so many rants on these fuckers that I can no longer explain why they are so terrible because I'd be repeating myself for like the 5th time. I just don't really see a "realism" or "grounded" argument with these dudes when they're so god damn lame. Look in my eyes and tell me you prefer these bozos who you meet in one or two rooms and then fuck up over people like Guzma, Lusamine or Piers.
Speaking of villains and stories: I like Lysandre, more than any other main villain. (Also, all of the below is opinion. Yes I know the thread name.)
Everyone talks about the stories of Pokemon games, but each of the games I have played (HGSS, XY, SM, SWSH) have terrible awful "plots". I haven't played others, but what I've heard of RBY, RSE, and DPPT is not inspiring as to change this trend. Gen5 I can't say anything about conclusively.
I focus on "plot" because the events and situations of these games are so ridiculous. Fluffy-hair dude wants to use magic death rocks to cleanse the world? Space aliens bow before the power of the ball with eyes your professor's quasi-assistant kept in her bag? I don't even want to talk about SWSH, and don't even know what I'd say for HGSS. (obligatory lol at gen2 rocket execs)
But where Pokemon shines on a non-mechanical level isn't plot. Sure, Rocket grunts selling Slowpoke tails is very believable, but what does it lead to? What matters are the characters, and some broader storyline does not really matter. Sometimes these characters are Pokemon. Horrifying, lurking Mewtwo that burnt an island to the ground. Holy, radiant, awe-inspiring Ho-Oh roosting on the ringing Bell Tower. Rayquaza descending its majestic serpentine form from the highest skies to go between the two greatest titans of the world. Nebby is certainly a memorable newer-gens member. Sometimes these characters are people. Whatever people love about Silver (I don't really get that one). Everything people love about N and Ghetsis (I get these ones more). Lillie, Piers, whoever else. When I remember plot events, they tend to be events that support these characters. The Kimono girls and the rainbow feather comes to mind.
And, at least for me, Lysandre is one of those characters. Suspending my disbelief of the nonsense around him (and it is nonsense), I see a man who was good once, deluded himself into thinking he was better than he was, gradually and then quickly broke down, and eventually paid the ultimate price for his broken mind. His appearance, his dialogue, his actions, the dialogue and actions of supporting characters (not just Flare members. eg AZ), and even his Pokemon choices all work to gradually support this and make it strong with a traceable intent I don't see credit given to. Making it strong and solid enough to convince me to care.
We shouldn't see Pokemon games as monster collecting games with some flimsy story as a required supporting element for its well-known monsters. To me, they are combination of their monsters, mechanics, characters, and environments, where all play an important role in shaping the experience you have.
Everyone talks about the stories of Pokemon games, but each of the games I have played (HGSS, XY, SM, SWSH) have terrible awful "plots". I haven't played others, but what I've heard of RBY, RSE, and DPPT is not inspiring as to change this trend. Gen5 I can't say anything about conclusively.
I focus on "plot" because the events and situations of these games are so ridiculous. Fluffy-hair dude wants to use magic death rocks to cleanse the world? Space aliens bow before the power of the ball with eyes your professor's quasi-assistant kept in her bag? I don't even want to talk about SWSH, and don't even know what I'd say for HGSS. (obligatory lol at gen2 rocket execs)
But where Pokemon shines on a non-mechanical level isn't plot. Sure, Rocket grunts selling Slowpoke tails is very believable, but what does it lead to? What matters are the characters, and some broader storyline does not really matter. Sometimes these characters are Pokemon. Horrifying, lurking Mewtwo that burnt an island to the ground. Holy, radiant, awe-inspiring Ho-Oh roosting on the ringing Bell Tower. Rayquaza descending its majestic serpentine form from the highest skies to go between the two greatest titans of the world. Nebby is certainly a memorable newer-gens member. Sometimes these characters are people. Whatever people love about Silver (I don't really get that one). Everything people love about N and Ghetsis (I get these ones more). Lillie, Piers, whoever else. When I remember plot events, they tend to be events that support these characters. The Kimono girls and the rainbow feather comes to mind.
And, at least for me, Lysandre is one of those characters. Suspending my disbelief of the nonsense around him (and it is nonsense), I see a man who was good once, deluded himself into thinking he was better than he was, gradually and then quickly broke down, and eventually paid the ultimate price for his broken mind. His appearance, his dialogue, his actions, the dialogue and actions of supporting characters (not just Flare members. eg AZ), and even his Pokemon choices all work to gradually support this and make it strong with a traceable intent I don't see credit given to. Making it strong and solid enough to convince me to care.
We shouldn't see Pokemon games as monster collecting games with some flimsy story as a required supporting element for its well-known monsters. To me, they are combination of their monsters, mechanics, characters, and environments, where all play an important role in shaping the experience you have.
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I don't understand what this is trying to prove TBH. Everyone who has posted about Team Rocket is talking about their actions, not what level their Pokémon are in the games most notorious for horrible level scaling.
It's perfectly fine to prefer smaller-scale plots involving villains like Team Rocket over more elaborate plots with Aether and Skull. Ever since Gen 3, each game makes the villain team(s) more powerful than the last (can't speak for Gen 8) and it's refreshing to play Gen 1 or 2 because of how simple Team Rocket is.