Unpopular opinions

Since we're talking about our issues with the Fairy-Type Pokémon (or have done since the last time I checked this thread, anyway)... my unpopular opinion is that Ghost-Type should be weak to it instead of Dark-Type.

I truly believe that the only reason why Dark- is weak to Fairy-Type is so that Sableye and Spiritomb acquired a weakness, but when looking at those two types I see just about no justification why Dark-Type would be chosen as the weakness to Fairy-Type. The only justification I can really think of is that Dark-Type Pokémon get their power from being able to think maliciously, and a pixie buzzing around your face is distracting. Which sounds really weak as logic, but then again I'm pretty sure that's why Bug-Type is super effective on Dark-Type.

On the other hand, though, Ghost- and Fairy-Type Pokémon not having a type chart interaction is stranger than anything else. They're the two "ethereal" types, harnessing powers from aspects of the universe that are unavailable to us. Ghosts are tied to the natural world, not being able to pass into the afterlife due to an attachment to this existence, while Fairy-Types are the channelers of the natural world who absorb its energy for healing and offence. I think it makes a lot of sense here for Fairy- to be super effective on Ghost-Type as it has superior control over the power source of Ghost-Type Pokémon, which is the same justification for why it's super effective against Dragon-Type Pokémon.

If anything, Fairy- and Dark-Type should probably resist each other considering they're somewhat antithetical. Fairy-Type is the closest thing we have to a devoted healing type, and Dark-Type's maliciousness is the polar opposite to that. Good and evil usually neutralise each other, so both resisting each other would've been cool. Of course, this would have precluded Fairy-Type from being able to give Dark/Ghost Pokémon a weakness, but I never saw it as a huge problem that needed addressing to start with.
This one can be explained by looking at the type chart and the moves of the Dark type. Unlike Ghost, Dark has a lot of incredibly useful moves- Dark Pulse can cause Flinching, Sucker Punch has priority, Crunch can lower Defense, Night Slash has increased critical high ratio, Pusuit deals double damage of you are switching, Foul Play uses the target’s Attack stat, and Knock Off is 98 BP if the target has a removable item. The big selling point of the Dark type moves is that they have very strong secondary effects that make them worth running even if they don’t provide any useful coverage. For example Pokémon like Clefable and Toxapex who would never run Dark type moves, run Knock Off just to punish a Switch in. That’s how good Knock Off is. Not to mention that unlike Ghost, Dark has no immunities, so it’s very spammable.

And it we’re going by the current type chart in which Steel no longer resists Dark/Ghost, the only types that would resist would be Dark itself and Fighting not counting Fairy. The former can’t do much without coverage moves or secondary STAB, so that makes Fighting the only type that can switch in and hit it back super effectively. Even with Fairy though, most Fairy types will think twice about switching into a Knock Off, since losing a item is a huge opportunity cost despite resisting the attack.

An Example would be Yveltal. One reason why Yveltal is so hard to switch into is because of its STAB combination. Not only does it get a free LO for its Dark type moves, but it also has few resists when you get down to it: Dark: Most Dark types struggle do much back to Yveltal. Fighting: Get obliterated by Flying STAB. This makes Fairy the only type that can resist Yveltal and come in threaten super effectively consistently.

If were to make Fairy weak to Ghost, I’d suggest keeping Steel’s resistance to Dark to prevent it from being to good of an offensive type.
 
Can I please get a concise explanation on why suddenly people are begging for voice acting in Pokemon? I thought voice acting in JRPGs turns out as corny at best and outright ear-grating at worst. All the way through Let's Go's release the only people asking for this, if anyone, were extremely fringe groups and now as of SWSH it's suddenly a big thing that really needs to happen now because...?

This all screams to me as being yet another useless trash idea that doesn't need to happen and people are only suddenly bringing up to unfairly bash Gen 8. The only "argument" is that one scene with Piers but you don't suddenly need a full voice cast for that, just make a song to fit that scene like Mario Odyssey did with Jump Up Superstar
 
Can I please get a concise explanation on why suddenly people are begging for voice acting in Pokemon?
Many? switch games (ie BoTW) have transitioned into voice acting quite well, and considering all the quality issues with base SS, voice acting has been associated/merged/complained with other expected features such as competent graphics

botw comparison probably came from some youtuber idk
 
Can I please get a concise explanation on why suddenly people are begging for voice acting in Pokemon? I thought voice acting in JRPGs turns out as corny at best and outright ear-grating at worst. All the way through Let's Go's release the only people asking for this, if anyone, were extremely fringe groups and now as of SWSH it's suddenly a big thing that really needs to happen now because...?

This all screams to me as being yet another useless trash idea that doesn't need to happen and people are only suddenly bringing up to unfairly bash Gen 8. The only "argument" is that one scene with Piers but you don't suddenly need a full voice cast for that, just make a song to fit that scene like Mario Odyssey did with Jump Up Superstar
The SWSH haters need something new to rag on I guess, now that the specifics of the Crown Tundra have been revealed.
As for Piers, I would rather them just not have a cutscene (with close-up) of him singing because it sticks out like a sore thumb. Would rather it just be like Roxie's gym in BW2 where the "singing" is in the backgound music. Voice acting would be cringe, for lack of a better term.
 
Can I please get a concise explanation on why suddenly people are begging for voice acting in Pokemon? I thought voice acting in JRPGs turns out as corny at best and outright ear-grating at worst. All the way through Let's Go's release the only people asking for this, if anyone, were extremely fringe groups and now as of SWSH it's suddenly a big thing that really needs to happen now because...?

This all screams to me as being yet another useless trash idea that doesn't need to happen and people are only suddenly bringing up to unfairly bash Gen 8. The only "argument" is that one scene with Piers but you don't suddenly need a full voice cast for that, just make a song to fit that scene like Mario Odyssey did with Jump Up Superstar
People were doing that since SWSH came out and it had cutscenes that really begged to be voice acted. I know I was.
It's just a discussion topic that comes in & out of fashion, like most things people complain about.

At the very least it should have had zelda-styled grunts
 
I feel like expanding on my thoughts on this:
Cutscenes have been getting more involved as the series goes on, but until SWSH its easy to sort of put out of mind since outside of the gamecube titles (an era that didnt have a ton of voice acting in most games) they're all handhelds and the brain's weird like that. But SWSH has multiple cutscenes that feel too quite. They put a lot of effort into the lip flaps and living gestures and focus on the faces that do nothing but talk and its just a little off, like a vocal track was meant to be there but wasn't. Piers is the absolute nadir of this but I have distinct memories of turning on the game, seeing the opening cutscene and going "hey you wanted voice acting for this didnt you".


No not every game necessarily needs voice acting. Mario's a good example of that. Main line mario has minimal dialog to begin with, and cutscenes often eemphasizing talking. And as Sunshine shows, mario characters dont really....have....good acting. Like you'll still occasionally get it in like side materials or weird things like charles martinet in an e3 booth but they're all very exaggerated characters that they continue to have that style of speaking even since 2001. And in the wordier RPG marios, there's often so much dialog that relies on snappy flow that it's not really designed to be vocalized even if the mario universe wasn't overly cartoony for it to work properly.
But SWSH, at the very least, feels like a game that could easily take the BOTW approach. Major cutscenes (maybe some battle dialog?) can have acting, and the rest can be supplemented with the occasional grunt. Pokemon dialog often isnt uhhhhhhhh, well, this isnt necessarily a complaint but "snappy" isnt what I'd describe it as, even when its funny. It's often designed around short bursts with the occasional monologue without a lot of complex sentences. Its a good fit, imo.

The idea of it being a ~useless trash idea that doesnt need to happen~ is such a bizarre knee-jerk reaction, too? Because voice acting can do a lot to elevate a product. I'm going to use fire emblem as an example here. It had shaky voiced beginnings starting in the 9 & 10th games (the GC & Wii games) for cutscenes and nothing else. Then the Marth remakes had none. And you know all those games are fine, beloved (depending on the game) even. Didn't NEED acting, really.
But then Awakening decided to do a mixed approach. Characters voice themselves in combat. Characters now have an assortment of voice clips that play during supports. And major CG cutscenes have (marked improvement on) voice acting, and then major lines will have full acting as well. Fates follwoed on that. And that was ncie! Most of the game still didnt have proper acting, but it really helepd give an idea of the characters mroe than just their dialog.
Then Shadows of Valentia had full voice acting and, like, uh, wow? It was really good? The game could have not had that and been perfectly enjoyable, but as a fully acted experience it helped raise all the characters and story to be something put as a mark for the game. Which is good because SOV, to play, issssssssssssssssss.........................s-soomething, alright.
Fire Emblem Warriors also got the full VA treatment and it was the first time I found myself caring at all about some of the characters. Someone like Marth & Caeda come off as very dull, but with voice acting they can take that same dialog and play off pretty nicely. Caeda in particular.
And then, Three Houses! Wow that is such an incredibly ugly game! And its got its fair share of things to criticize and, much like SWSH, clearly had some time constraint issues crop up. But it had full voice acting and I think went a long, long way to endearing the cast & story to everyone even more than prior games. The house leaders would no doubt still have plenty of fans, but their respective actors definitely lifted them up.
And of course, Fire Emblem heroes has done SUCH a major job of selling characters to me. The FE4 & 5 crew are, like, nothing to me before getting to hear them in Heroes. half the reason I want more remakes or remasters is to hear the fully acted scenes.



Anyway, if someone is just bashing SWSH for not having VO thats whatever, but its a legitimate want to have at this point in the franchise's life when its surrounded by games that do have it and can make it work. Anecdotally (so you know, massive ymmv) I've seen similar complaints from far more casual fans at hwo weird some of the scenes are without it.


Also Pokemon Masters has voice acting, in the BOTW or Fateswaekning style. That probably didnt help comparisons since like its right there, and had just come out during the SWSH cycle, and all.

e: This was far more rambly than I intended, I realize now...
 
Which is good because SOV, to play, issssssssssssssssss.........................s-soomething, alright.
I will not stand for this slander of SoV and it’s defensively-accurate-yet-absolutely-agonizing-to-play fortress map design. I love that game even with its NES-era jank.

Anyways, I’m ambivalent on voice action in Pokémon. I fear it would be like BotW, which I personally found cringy in terms of quality. Although judging from the Twilight Wings VA it would be fine enough. I don’t adore the VA in those shorts but they work.
 
I will not stand for this slander of SoV and it’s defensively-accurate-yet-absolutely-agonizing-to-play fortress map design. I love that game even with its NES-era jank.
Hey I liked the game enough to beat it twice but man
those maps tho

its wild looking at them and then comparing to FE1 & 3 maps which, make no mistake, have their own problems but oh my god intsys why....
Anyways, I’m ambivalent on voice action in Pokémon. I fear it would be like BotW, which I personally found cringy in terms of quality. Although judging from the Twilight Wings VA it would be fine enough. I don’t adore the VA in those shorts but they work.
The real problem with VA comes down to the direction they're given, most likely. But that's a risk with most games. Ideally something like Pokemon would get more on the quality side.

incidentally I found botw's acting...fine? I didn't hate it. I know a numebr of people do, but, hey, add that to all the ymmv in my post i guess.
 
Hey I liked the game enough to beat it twice but man
those maps tho

its wild looking at them and then comparing to FE1 & 3 maps which, make no mistake, have their own problems but oh my god intsys why....

The real problem with VA comes down to the direction they're given, most likely. But that's a risk with most games. Ideally something like Pokemon would get more on the quality side.

incidentally I found botw's acting...fine? I didn't hate it. I know a numebr of people do, but, hey, add that to all the ymmv in my post i guess.
The maps get a lot more bearable when you just rush Hunter’s Volley, but that raises several other issues with the game’s design...

Anyways, my main issue with botw VA was Zelda’s weird British/old-timey accent. Just felt so out of place when literally nobody else had one? Even her dad doesn’t? It’s just weird. At least in Galar over-the-top British accents would be expected.
 
I think Pokémon would benefit from voice acting for one reason, and only one reason: Every region is based on a real world region or country, and having voice acting in that country's language (and specifically, dialect) would be awesome. And actually, I think that part of why voice acting is now being requested is because it was a little awkward for Americans reading British slang in SwSh. I enjoyed the British slang greatly as a Brit because I read the text in my own voice, but things like "mate" just aren't said by Americans much and I've heard from some American friends who are casual fans that it killed their suspense of disbelief a little. The protagonist is still meant to be a substitute for the player themself, and when the people around you irl don't talk like the characters in-game do it detracts from it or at least makes you feel a bit like a foreigner, which is an awkward middle ground between the protagonist being its own character and being you.

Granted, the Alola region's characters speaking Hawai'ian would also detract from the protagonist being a substitute for the player, but I don't think that's a bad thing so long as it's handled correctly. Lots of protagonist characters are fairly forgettable at this point because we've had so many of them and there's nothing that distinguishes them from each other besides their designs themselves. If protagonists actually had a personality I think it'd be hugely beneficial, and voice acting would assist this because protagonists would have different voices and inflexions, which makes them more memorable. Even in Zelda this works, with Toon Link having different grunts to BotW Link and the like. Especially now that the series is in proper 3D, your character not even breathing heavily when you run or cycle is a little jarring. This isn't the same with sprites, where it'd be weird, and so voice acting is a sensible evolution for the series given the stage that it's at.

This also avoids the issue of the cost of hiring voice actors in several different languages -- they only need to do one and subtitle what they say into those different languages. Sinnohan voice actors are Hokkaidan, Unovan voice actors are American while Galarian are British, Kalosian voice actors speak French etc. etc.. Perhaps when you have guest characters from other regions they can even speak a broken version of the native language, enforcing the fact that they're not from there but are trying to fit into the culture.

I'm not saying prior games are bad because they didn't have voice acting. It didn't detract from the experience much, at least for me. But it makes a great deal of sense to introduce voice acting as the series continues to ameliorate, and is a simple request as far as I can tell. Especially with how online fanbases are becoming more and more appreciative of voice acting as a career and individual voice actors begin building up a fanbase. Hiring a popular voice actor for a game builds hype among hardcore gamers, and so makes economic sense for Game Freak since this is the crowd they're losing.
 
Can I please get a concise explanation on why suddenly people are begging for voice acting in Pokemon? I thought voice acting in JRPGs turns out as corny at best and outright ear-grating at worst. All the way through Let's Go's release the only people asking for this, if anyone, were extremely fringe groups and now as of SWSH it's suddenly a big thing that really needs to happen now because...?

This all screams to me as being yet another useless trash idea that doesn't need to happen and people are only suddenly bringing up to unfairly bash Gen 8. The only "argument" is that one scene with Piers but you don't suddenly need a full voice cast for that, just make a song to fit that scene like Mario Odyssey did with Jump Up Superstar

Because it makes the games look more professional and immersive. Watching Piers "sing" was pathetic and plenty of characters have enough energy in their movements that practically begs for voice acting. Look at this shit. The music starts, stadium builds excitement, the chairman gets ready to talk... aaaaaand subtitles start to flow and there is no sound. Terrible. Also back to Piers, even Roxie ten years ago on the DS had voice acting! Pretty much every modern game has voice acting, even games like Zelda and Final Fantasy have made the transition well. Even MARIO games have basic elements of voice acting! It kind of reminds me of how weird Banjo Kazooie Nuts and Bolts was on the 360 when you sort of realized that grunts and chirps are no longer a reasonable alternative to voice acting.

You can kind of excuse it on the 3DS but the Switch? Eh. There's a lot bad about SwSh so the lack of voice acting gets kind of glossed over but it's definitely something that would improve the games in the future.
 
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Personally, I don't think I've ever in my life thought about whether Pokemon should have voice acting until it came up around here in the last few days. I wonder how much of the broader fanbase cares about it.

And to continue the trend of addressing things that have come up in other threads, I agree that Pokemon's tendency to add new content while resisting cuts to the old has resulted in bloat, that a lot of items and Pokemon go largely unused because others are better, and that Game Freak's tendency is to just let the bloating continue until they're not able to keep it going. But I'm not clear on why any of that is apparently bad.
 
This all screams to me as being yet another useless trash idea that doesn't need to happen and people are only suddenly bringing up to unfairly bash Gen 8. The only "argument" is that one scene with Piers but you don't suddenly need a full voice cast for that, just make a song to fit that scene like Mario Odyssey did with Jump Up Superstar

I agree. I'm reminded of the special B2W2 trailer, we don't need all cutscenes VAed, but maybe put a bit of budget in the important cutscenes (heck, maybe animate them like they did in the B2W2 trailer). Let's take Sword & Shield and talk about the cutscenes which I felt should have been VA:
  • Rose's Introduction at the beginning of the game.
  • Rose's announcing the beginning of the Champion Cup & Introducing the Gym Leaders.
  • Piers singing.
  • Rose & Leon talking about Galar's future.
  • Rose unleashing the Darkest Day.
  • Player's encounter with Rose.
  • Leon failing to catch Eternatus.
  • Leon announcing the player as the new Champion.
Had those few scenes just been VAed I think that would be acceptable. We'd only need voice actors for Rose, Leon, Hop, & Piers.

VERY unPoPular opinion: Pokémonsters DOESN'T suck!!!

It's not that people thought Pokemon Masters suck, they were just dissapointed how lacking in content it originally was. And thankfully DeNA heard this, agreed & apologized, and started working on adding more content at a constant rate.

No, no voice acting please. It's just cringe in any language other than Japanese, and I don't really want to learn every Pokemon's name and move in Japanese to play the games.

Most games let you play a game in English text but use the Japanese VA.
 
Now that we're speaking of voice acting, how about the Pokemon cries?

The games have always used specific bestial noises named 'cries', but the anime instead has the Pokemon usually say his name (the 'Pokemon Speak', as we know it). There are some people that think this should apply to the game too, have them all speak like they do in the anime; and so far only Pikachu, Eevee and G Max Meowth do this.

However, this rule was applied by the anime but is not always followed in every iteration. Pokemon Origins, Generations, Twilight Wings have the Pokemon doing animal noises and personally, I think this fits much better in the Pokemon world so I'd say keep the Pokemon cries. I do agree it's weird to have Pikachu saying 'Pika pika', and other mons with normal cries.

Most games let you play a game in English text but use the Japanese VA.

Kinda off topic but I really dislike when international dubs still keep Japanese pronouns. That's not normal, wtf. While the quality of TPCi dubbing is debatable, at least they don't do that...
 
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Kinda off topic but I really dislike when international dubs still keep Japanese pronouns. That's not normal, wtf. While the quality of TPCi dubbing is debatable, at least they don't do that...
Wait, there’s dubs that do that? Like you have lines like “boku am gonna win this battle!!”, or do you just mean translating the approximate genders of the pronouns? I can’t imagine how bizarre a dub would sound with random watashis and the such thrown in. Sounds awful
 
Wait, there’s dubs that do that? Like you have lines like “boku am gonna win this battle!!”, or do you just mean translating the approximate genders of the pronouns? I can’t imagine how bizarre a dub would sound with random watashis and the such thrown in. Sounds awful

Sorry, I was trying to say honorific suffixes (kun, chan, etc). Some translated games/anime keep those. Never saw use of pronouns in professional dubs, but you see them sometimes in fandubs/fansubs.
 
Sorry, I was trying to say honorific suffixes (kun, chan, etc). Some translated games/anime keep those. Never saw use of pronouns in professional dubs, but you see them sometimes in fandubs/fansubs.
na i would say they are somewhat normal and even expected (at least for communicates who would be more interested in anime)
 
random hot take:

after HGSS, which are considered to be pretty much the best Pokemon games by most fans including me, i actually think USUM were the next best games

my reasons are pretty simple...the map is beautiful. they did a great job of capturing the spirit of hawaii in the pokemon world. the music, specifically the standard trainer battle theme, is top tier. most Pokemon available in any game. so many side quests. postgame was legit too. battling red, capturing all those legendaries, poni island... I seriously think it just barely beats out B2W2

great game, and i realize my signature looks kind of redundant with this post lol
 
No, no voice acting please. It's just cringe in any language other than Japanese, and I don't really want to learn every Pokemon's name and move in Japanese to play the games.
This implies that the original Japanese voice acting is never cringy to people who speak Japanese.

Okay, I get what you're saying, but I highly doubt JRPG dialogue is perfectly conversational even in its original Japanese. If the dialogue doesn't sound natural when acted, that's the fault of the localization team. If the dialogue itself is fine but the delivery is corny, that's the fault of the VA (please no arguments about VAs, I'm aware this one is a subjective issue). There's often a level of energy in JRPGs that just... doesn't come across as natural, no matter how it's delivered. Pokémon is definitely in that camp, and I think it's part of the series' charm.

I'm personally of the opinion that dubbing is a good thing, as long as it's feasible. American cartoons/shows get translated into Japanese/other languages when they go there and I think that's great that kids can watch shows in their own language.

Anyway, I don't think SwSh would have benefitted from full voice acting, but the lack of it really stood out during Piers' song and, IMO, Rose's introductory cutscene.
 
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