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While I understands Mega Evolutions and especially Regional Variants, I really can't see how Gigantamax is any real form per say; it's only aesthetic + exclusive G-Max Move. While the design is to tell us that their Max Move of certain type would be different, that's the only real change and feels far more gimmicky than the other things. There's a reason why G-Max forms doesn't feels so sastifying at all aside of a different G-Max (which tend to be too situational barring a few) compared to Mega Evolution.
I also feels like you rather want cross-gen evolutions to be gone completely or at least be treated like Mega Evolutions, where they could not be available at every later generations. Part of Cross-Gen Evolutions is to improve on standalone or first stage Pokémon exceptionally mediocre or with garish BST. Not every one of them did it right, especially concerning Probopass, but that can also applies to "exclusive" gimmicks such as exclusive Z-Moves, Mega Evolution and G-Max moves.
While Mega Evolution does a miracle on Mawile and Sableye, it was because of their very powerful Ability. Everything that is an expansion to a Pokémon line really depends on execution (though you obviously can't give an evo to something that already evolved twice), and none should be negatively or complained about all the times.
As a result, any major expansion should be treated equally - not in term of reception, but on how much it expends on a Pokémon or whole line - regardless of how they would stick around or not. This means of course we really should count Regional Variants and Mega Evolutions as their own thing... not so much for G-Max forms I'm afraid.
If you rather have cross-gen evolutions and pre-evolutions be gone forever and make Mega Evolution or other gimmick the "permanent solution", that's your decision, not mine. But not everyone would be happy with one solution or expansion, especially in a community as big and divisive as Pokémon.
Mr Briney and Peeko. I don't know why. There's just a thing about those two that make the whole Hoenn region just a bit more warm and welcoming.
For the most part, I am not making a value judgment on the relative merits of the forms/gimmicks. Whether or not you or I or anyone personally feels like G-max do not count as forms doesn't change the fact that as a new distinct design it requires similar effort to come up with the design and implement the model and animations in game that a cross-gen evolution or brand new Pokemon would require to design and implement (presumably slightly less effort on average than it takes to implement a brand new Pokemon). Since the discussion is about how the 3D gens' dexes seem to be dominated by standard archetypes, leaving little space for the more creative non-standard lines, I am just adding to the discussion what I see as a contributing reason for this: the "design slots" that used to be taken up by brand new Pokemon in Gens 3 & 5 or cross-evolutions in Gens 2 and 4 are not gone per se, they now just seem to be devoted to designing the generational gimmick forms and regional variants. I am not saying "thing good" or "thing bad," just "thing exists."
That said, to clarify my parenthetical comments in the previous post, which do get at my personal opinion regarding the forms: in general I do prefer when the balance of new designs favors brand new Pokemon lines over cross-gen evolutions/megas/G-max/regional variants, especially the non-archetypal/tropey new Pokemon. That's not to say I despise cross-gen evolutions or anything, I just think that overall they tend to be less interesting than new Pokemon lines. I do think it would be boring if the older Pokemon were never revisited, and I liked megas well enough for this purpose in Gen 6, but when it comes to revisiting old Pokemon I like regional variants much better than either cross-gen evolutions or Megas because the designs tend to be lateral moves which I think tend to be more creative than vertical evolutions like Gligar -> Gliscor both design-wise and competitively because it often gives the Pokemon a chance to fill a different niche. Regional evolutions seem to be the best of both worlds in this regard, in my opinion. I get that many people are not satisfied with regional variants and regional evolutions because it does nothing for the original forms like Kantonian Farfetch'd, but personally I'm skeptical that getting a traditional gen 4-esque BST-boosting evolution will do much for them anyways, since odds are there's still something better that fills their niche anyways. (Hello, my old friend Mismagius. :( )
So that's my personal "thing I like" to keep the thread on theme: I think regional variants/evolutions were a great way to refresh older Pokemon designs and I'm glad they continued beyond Gen 7.
After reading your full post, I can't argue with that for sure. Regional Evolutions do combine the best of both worlds, especially the way it gave a great first impression in Gen 8, unlike the battle gimmicks which ends up being divisive.
The only Regional Evolution that had a notably divisive reception from what I've seen is Perrserker, but that's mostly concerns the design and many agreed that it's an improvement over the awkward-looking Alolan Persian anyways.
Nah, that would be Kalos. I have to commend the region for executing the archetypes well, and the "token representatives" of each typing are also very well made, but on a purely conceptual level, there's very little in the region that wasn't included to either play an archetype straight or just to represent a typing. The Kalos dex is short enough that we can go through it family by family:
- Chespin family: Archetype - Starter
- Fennekin family: Archetype - Starter
- Froakie family: Archetype - Starter
- Bunnelby family: Archetype - Regional rodent
- Fletchling family: Archetype - Regional bird
- Scatterbug family: Archetype - Regional bug
- Litleo family: Archetype - Cutesy Normal-type (and also giving Fire some representation as it's only half-represented by the Fletchling family)
- Flabébé family: Non-archetype
- Skiddo family: Token type representative - Grass (although it is an edge case, as it has a pretty notable gimmick and Grass is so well-represented elsewhere in the 'dex)
- Pancham family: Token type representative - Fighting
- Furfrou: Archetype - Regional stand-alone Normal-type
- Espurr family: Token type representative - Psychic
- Honedge family: Non-archetype
- Spritzee family: Token type representative - Fairy
- Swirlix family: Token type representative - Fairy (two of these, since Fairy is a new typing)
- Inkay family: Token type representative - Dark
- Binacle family: Token type representative - Rock
- Skrelp family: Token type representative - Poison
- Clauncher family: Token type representative - Water
- Helioptile family: Token type representative - Electric
- Tyrunt family: Archetype - Fossil
- Amaura family: Archetype - Fossil
- Sylveon: Non-archetype (although definitely a Fairy representative)
- Hawlucha: Archetype - Regional stand-alone Flying-type
- Dedenne: Archetype - Pikaclone
- Carbink: Non-archetype
- Goomy family: Archetype - Pseudo-legendary
- Klefki: Non-archetype
- Phantump family: Token type representative - Ghost (see note below)
- Pumpkaboo family: Not sure about why this one was here, it's redundant with the Phantump family, which makes one of them a non-archetype, but not the other
- Bergmite family: Token type representative - Ice
- Noibat family: Token type representative - Dragon
- Xerneas: Archetype - Cover legendary
- Yveltal: Archetype - Cover legendary
- Zygarde: Archetype - Third wheel of the cover legendaries
- Diancie: Archetype - Mythical
- Hoopa: Archetype - Mythical
- Volcanion: Archetype - Mythical
Another thing I noticed when writing this is that there exists another archetype I haven't noticed before: Each generation contains a dual-typed Flying-type that does not evolve and does not belong to any other archetypes. Examples so far are Farfetch'd (Normal/Flying), Skarmory (Steel/Flying) (Gen II had six of these originally, but now only Skarmory and Delibird are left without evolutionary relatives), Tropius (Grass/Flying), Chatot (Normal/Flying), Sigilyph (Psychic/Flying), Hawlucha (Fighting/Flying), Minior (Rock/Flying), and Cramorant (Flying/Water). It's not an entirely waterproof classification, as I originally had the additional criterion "no other gimmicks", but this would disqualify Chatot, Minior, and Cramorant.
Anyway, I also realize that this could just be a case of me looking at something for long enough that non-existent patterns begin to emerge, especially in the case of "token representatives". I consider this trope to be in play when there's a lone two-stage family being the sole notable representatives of one type in a regional dex, possibly apart from the archetypes. The type needs to be present in both evolution stages. As if a head designer at a meeting said "We lack an [...]-type Pokémon that evolves. Can we make a two-stage family to represent the type without taking up too much space in the Pokédex?"
As a side note, I think I realize now why the Flabébé family isn't part Grass. Between the Chespin family (starters), the Gogoat family (representing the Ride Pokémon mechanic), the Phantump family, and the Pumpkaboo family, somebody must have decided that Kalos had enough Grass-types and removed it from the Flabébé family. Hm, I'm beginning to suspect that either Phantump, Pumpkaboo, or both, were some creator's pet designs that had to be included at all costs.
In my opinion Flabebe feels like the Fairy Token more than the Spritzee and Swirlix family.
Also, are we no longer including the Eeveelutions as an archtype? Cause that's what Sylveon is.
While I understand not wanting to call Honedge the Steel Token, I don't feel it would be uncalled for to call Klefki the Steel Token.
Pumpkaboo family exists because it shows a gimmick involving the new hardware. Now that they've moved onto 3d models, to make a model's size different all they need to do is go into the model making program they use and enlarge it by however much they want. That something they couldn't do with sprites as the sprites would get distorted (note the Gen V sprites distortion when they're moving around), for it to look nice they would have to make an individual sprite for each size. But with models? Nope, just enlarge (and maybe shrink for the small size). While not that impressive to us the players, it's probably something some staff at GF got giddy about... something they didn't get over by Gen VII thus the Totem Pokemon... and they're still not over by Gen VIII with the Dynamax Pokemon. If they're not over of this by Gen IX the next games will probably have us exploring a continent on the back of a giant Pokemon, Xenoblade Chronicles style.
Anyway, Phantump was probably always intended to be put in so that's why it remained.
And that is where you're wrong, because we'll be exploring a micro continent, we're going into the microscopic pokemon world, discovering the new type, the Virus Pokemon, supereffective against grass, fairy and bug, and weak against steel fire and ice with rock and ghost being immune to it!
granted that would actually be pretty cool
...although knowing gamefreak it’ll only have the “monster quest 1: beat 5 zubats” as sidequests and we would constantly hear the giant Pokémon’s cry, but whooooo knooooows
hey, there was that one scene in detective pikachu (specifically the movie, idk about the game) where an "earthquake" happens and it's revealed to be absolutely massive, plate-sized torterras. i figure i'll be in the minority here but exploring the back of a torterra and seeing how that affects people's / pokemon's lifestyle(s) would be Pretty Fucking Dope
even though gf will probably never do it
exploring the back of a giant pokemon i.e. tort sounds more like the concept for a town/city than an entire region
Honestly one of the little things I've found myself enjoying about Pokemon recently is how good it is for just zoning out while I work on other projects. Right now I'm doing some shiny hunting while taking care of a few art projects and it's a great way to decompress
In Xenoblade Chronicles 2 the concept of the world is that it's covered by a neverending "cloud sea" and towns/cities are built upon the back & around titans.
I used to do the same while doing Max Raid battles, especially with other players where the animations play so a single turn takes like 2 minutes.
I think this goes back to what the definition of a "token type representative" is, which I must admit I haven't been rigorous about. To me, it's about that feeling you get when you scroll through the Pokédex and see "one family of this type, one family of that type, one of that type, check, check, check". It's an evolution family included to provide an X-type Pokémon that evolves so the generation in question won't be missing that, but which does remarkably little otherwise.
The Flabébé line may very well have been made to provide a three-stage family for the new Fairy type, but calling it a "token type representative" would be stretching it, I think. Three-stage families are extremely rare these days, outside of the archetypes. Creating one implies - to me, at least - a conscious choice to do more than the bare minimum.
Note that a type that's already represented by a non-archetype or non-token evolution family doesn't need a token representative. If a three-stage family of the typing is already included, they don't need to make a separate two-stage family to tick the box again. Galar has no token Fire or Rock types, as the Rolycoly family gives sufficient representation for both types. Likewise, the Hatenna family takes care of Psychic. Hence, I don't think Steel has a token at all in Kalos, as the Honedge family is a more-than-token representative for it already.
I'm a little conflicted on the Fairy type in Galar, though, as the Impidimp family should have covered it well enough, but we've still got the Milcery family. On the other hand, the Milcery I guess it has enough going for it that it could be said to have been designed for reasons beyond representation of Fairy in the Galar dex. The Nickit family has all the hallmarks of a token Dark-type representative, however, even though the Impidimp family is Dark too. I wonder if Impidimp was added late in the process?
Likewise, my feelings about the Sizzlipede family in this regard are conflicted as well. I don't think leaving it out would have left a hole in the Pokédex, as both Fire and Bug are found on multiple other evolutionary families. I guess that, if I were to make a similar list for Galar as I did for Kanto, the Sizzlipede family would have been left out of the "token" list.
It's only present in half of the generations, less than that if you leave the original Eevee out. If I were to place it in an archetypal category, it would be "cross-generation evolution", which is found in all but two generations if you also consider regional evolutions to be a sub-category.
Anyway, the reason why I'm so hung up in these patterns and archetypes of the Pokédex is because of my enthusiasm for new Pokémon generations. If Gen IX is designed following the same patterns as the three generations before it, we should be able to "reverse-engineer" a large part of its Pokédex before it's even revealed, and make somewhat accurate predictions of what is left to be revealed after each new piece of news. Analyzing Game Freak's line of thinking like this should also make it easier to spot fake Pokédex leaks - or maybe it helps fakers make more believable dexes, I don't know.
The idea of there being 18 "token <type>" archetypes is super dumb. Maaaaybe if there was literally only a single Pokemon of that type, it could apply (for example, Diggersby being the only new non-legendary Ground-type introduced in Kalos) but even then it's a pretty big maybe.
Honestly, listen to yourself. There should not be any debate over which of Alcremie, Rapidash, Weezing, Hatterene, Grimmsnarl, and Zacian is the token Fairy-type of Galar. There is no "token Fairy-type". There are just six Fairy-types, plain and simple.
There isn't really any overlapping design space, either. The only similarity between "token <type>" Pokemon between generations is that they share that type. They have different appearances, different movepools, different stats. Hell, the part about sharing a type isn't even very accurate when you consider dual-types. Seriously, who the fuck looks at Thievul and Malamar and thinks "yeah, those are basically the same thing"? Even if there were "token <type>" Pokemon (which there aren't) type is such a flexible aspect of a Pokemon's design that if you have beef with it, you're actively looking for something to complain about.
Honestly, listen to yourself. There should not be any debate over which of Alcremie, Rapidash, Weezing, Hatterene, Grimmsnarl, and Zacian is the token Fairy-type of Galar. There is no "token Fairy-type". There are just six Fairy-types, plain and simple.
There isn't really any overlapping design space, either. The only similarity between "token <type>" Pokemon between generations is that they share that type. They have different appearances, different movepools, different stats. Hell, the part about sharing a type isn't even very accurate when you consider dual-types. Seriously, who the fuck looks at Thievul and Malamar and thinks "yeah, those are basically the same thing"? Even if there were "token <type>" Pokemon (which there aren't) type is such a flexible aspect of a Pokemon's design that if you have beef with it, you're actively looking for something to complain about.
Guys, I have a lot:
- Anville town was just the cutest thing in b2w2. If you didn't play b2w2, it's basically a small settlement that is inaccessible unless you somehow notice it as a destination on the battle subway (basically battle tower but on a subway). There isn't really anything to do there, it's just a small little place where you can trade some items with other npcs. I thought it was a nice little touch just because it wasn't extremely apparent but adds to the "tourism" part of the nyc metro area (where unova is based)
- I like how dragon tamers were a trainer class in pokemon emerald but there were only two in all of gen 3. It made those battles feel special asf lmao
(they were in meteor falls, i believe one had two altaria)
- The RED GYARADOS!!! This was such a huge moment of all our childhoods.
- So cool how if you complete the hoenn pokedex in pokemon emerald you get a free johto starter :D
- And by extension, we all already knew HGSS was the best game, but getting a kanto starter was also just a remarkable addition
- New Mauville in pokemon emerald. What a bizzare location. Why is the city generator so far from the city? Anyways I loved it lol
- In HGSS, delivering the spearow holding the mail was a nice little side quest
- How in Pokemon Ultra Sun and Moon, a wild pokemon battle with like a caterpie had the most intense theme in any pokemon game
- Trevenant hordes in Pokemon X and Y could have one Sudowoodo, referencing its ability to mimic a tree
- How if a pokemon with lightning rod is first in the party in emerald you get twice as many phone calls, seriously how did they decide to put this in I love it
- responding to the quiz in dragons den with the correct answers gives u an espeed dratini
- Three dragon type families in hoenn made the game so fun
- spindas patterns, how did they even create billions of them
- on route 47 in HGSS, i think if you talk to one of your flying type pokemon on the bridge they something like "_____ has spread out their wings" or something cool
- speaking of route 47, crasher wake being present haha what a crossover
- pokemon emerald trainer theme, at like 0:34 that one little part brings back so many memories (had to google this one because i couldnt remember the timestamp lmfao)
- when conkeldurr faints it drops its cement blocks lol
- bagon only being available in that one little room in meteor falls, they really made you work for salamence during the main story and i made it a point to catch a bagon on my playthrough
- kanto elite 4, you can catch wild pokemon in the middle of the badge checkpoints lol
- the truck in frlg having the lava cookie! the devs are so cool for adding that as a reference
- in pokemon sun and moon, how red wore 96 on his shirt to reference the year pokemon red and blue got released
- everything about heartgold and soulsilvers pokedex design
im sure there's more but these are just some small things i like
edit: also want to mention how latios and latias are based on ying and yang, two contradicting personalities that still share many similarities
- Anville town was just the cutest thing in b2w2. If you didn't play b2w2, it's basically a small settlement that is inaccessible unless you somehow notice it as a destination on the battle subway (basically battle tower but on a subway). There isn't really anything to do there, it's just a small little place where you can trade some items with other npcs. I thought it was a nice little touch just because it wasn't extremely apparent but adds to the "tourism" part of the nyc metro area (where unova is based)
- I like how dragon tamers were a trainer class in pokemon emerald but there were only two in all of gen 3. It made those battles feel special asf lmao
- The RED GYARADOS!!! This was such a huge moment of all our childhoods.
- So cool how if you complete the hoenn pokedex in pokemon emerald you get a free johto starter :D
- And by extension, we all already knew HGSS was the best game, but getting a kanto starter was also just a remarkable addition
- New Mauville in pokemon emerald. What a bizzare location. Why is the city generator so far from the city? Anyways I loved it lol
- In HGSS, delivering the spearow holding the mail was a nice little side quest
- How in Pokemon Ultra Sun and Moon, a wild pokemon battle with like a caterpie had the most intense theme in any pokemon game
- Trevenant hordes in Pokemon X and Y could have one Sudowoodo, referencing its ability to mimic a tree
- How if a pokemon with lightning rod is first in the party in emerald you get twice as many phone calls, seriously how did they decide to put this in I love it
- responding to the quiz in dragons den with the correct answers gives u an espeed dratini
- Three dragon type families in hoenn made the game so fun
- spindas patterns, how did they even create billions of them
- on route 47 in HGSS, i think if you talk to one of your flying type pokemon on the bridge they something like "_____ has spread out their wings" or something cool
- speaking of route 47, crasher wake being present haha what a crossover
- pokemon emerald trainer theme, at like 0:34 that one little part brings back so many memories (had to google this one because i couldnt remember the timestamp lmfao)
- when conkeldurr faints it drops its cement blocks lol
- bagon only being available in that one little room in meteor falls, they really made you work for salamence during the main story and i made it a point to catch a bagon on my playthrough
- kanto elite 4, you can catch wild pokemon in the middle of the badge checkpoints lol
- the truck in frlg having the lava cookie! the devs are so cool for adding that as a reference
- in pokemon sun and moon, how red wore 96 on his shirt to reference the year pokemon red and blue got released
- everything about heartgold and soulsilvers pokedex design
im sure there's more but these are just some small things i like
edit: also want to mention how latios and latias are based on ying and yang, two contradicting personalities that still share many similarities
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Would have been much easier if they just made the entire Hattena family Fairy/Psychic so it could cover both.
I'd say give the Impidimp family the token Fairy-type, Milcery does have a more deliberate design but I think from an unlikely source: SPINNING! They introduced that little spinning easter egg and then thought "wait, what if we made a Pokemon evolve by spinning?" and no one told them no or to stop until they had developed 63 Alcremies (not counting shinies).
Don't know when it was added, though I have a feeling it was probably intentionally created around the same time as the Hatenna family at least due to their shared themes & association with the auxiliary rivals. Also they are both based on mythical beings usually associated with the UK, witches and goblins, so if not made in the first batch a plan to include Pokemon like them was surely in the works.
Yeah, Sizzlipede doesn't really have a "token" feeling to it, at most it would be a "secondary token" because they have a Fire-type Gym Leader and they needed an ace for him because you can't give them the Fire Starter, that's a special Pokemon for just the player, the rivals, and the people who hand out the Starters.
They skip Fossils every few generations (2,
You have your point but I wouldn't say the idea is stupid. There is definitely a checklist of sorts, they have to include a new Pokemon of every Type (though I guess if they don't include a Type expert of a certain Type they could dance around that, hence why Diggersby is the only Ground-type in Kalos as it has no Ground expert).
I think the idea that Codraroll roll is pointing out is at what Pokemon did GF check off the box for that Type, not necessarily that Pokemon is THE representation for that Type for that generation. Pretty much which Pokemon was designed cause they had a unique idea for a Pokemon and which Pokemon did they go "okay, we need a (BLANK) Type, get to brainstorming" (and we do know they do that, I think that's how Unova got Basculin cause they needed a Water-type Fish).
FISH! That's another confirmed archetype! Each generation has it's own fish Pokemon (sometimes multiple): Goldeen, Remoraid/Qwilfish, Feebas/Luvdisc, Finneon, Basculin, Wishiwashi, Arrokuda. Kalos seems to be the exception though we do have Skrelp, also with Kalos being the gen that started to have less than 100 Pokemon GF could have also decided "yeah, we probably have enough fish Pokemon if we can't think of any good designs".
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Outside of agreeing that the "token" definition doesn't make sense if there's multiple families of that type, I think the Impidimp family is a thing of its own.
Outside of it being the ""counterpart"" of the Hatterene family, they wanted to make the unique "Dark/Fairy" typed family. It definitely looks intentional to me, compared to the much more bland Psychic/Fairy of Hatterene (which still has a cool concept behind its design, but definitely doesnt sport a unique typing or combat archetype, as it's basically a trick room version of Gardevoir)
Outside of it being the ""counterpart"" of the Hatterene family, they wanted to make the unique "Dark/Fairy" typed family. It definitely looks intentional to me, compared to the much more bland Psychic/Fairy of Hatterene (which still has a cool concept behind its design, but definitely doesnt sport a unique typing or combat archetype, as it's basically a trick room version of Gardevoir)
The concept of tokenism in Pokémon design is definitely a thing in more recent generations, but hoo boy the current framing of this is way off IMO. The way any creative process works, especially in something like character design, is that the tokens come last. So if they've designed an entire generation of Pokémon and they're looking back at what they've got and go "oh wait what we haven't made a Ground-Type yet, let's make a rabbit" then that's tokenism. But it's too far to assume that the generation starts out with designers being told "OK, you're making our Fire-Type, you're our Ghost-Type" etc.. For that reason, I think the number of token Pokémon is pretty small.
Here are the only ones who could feasibly be last-minute additions / tokens:
Here are the only ones who could feasibly be last-minute additions / tokens:
- Gen 1 literally has none, because it was the first generation and everything was being created at once. At a stretch you could call Gengar or Dragonite families tokens for their types because they're the only ones, but I don't think it quite works out because it's not like Ghost- and Dragon-Type had to exist, and the existence of those types is directly related to the Gengar and Dragonite families themselves.
- Gen 2, the only Pokémon I think could possibly be called a token is Misdreavus. I can see them getting late in development, realising they haven't created a new Ghost-Type Pokémon at all, and then chucking Misdreavus in the post-game as a "secret" addition to a rare type. I don't think Kingdra qualifies, because let's be real Horsea and Seadra were supposed to be Dragon-Type too and whoever in Gen 1 decided to make Dragon-Type exclusive to the Dratini line was fired between generations :L
- In Gen 3 I think Nosepass was plausibly a token because they fwr decided to mirror Brock and have a Rock-Type first gym leader with a defensive ace, and felt that Relicanth was too strong.
- Gulpin & Swalot also could be late additions, as otherwise the roster of Poison-Type Pokémon were pretty niche (Dustox), repetitive combo (Roselia being another Grass/Poison), or Seviper who's a duo with Zangoose more so than a representative of the Poison-Type.
- The Manectric line could also be tokens but I think it's a stretch. Considering the existence of areas like New Mauville and the overall ecological plot, I think Electric-Type was on the devs' minds during development, but they happened to only come up with the one Electric-Type family that they were really happy with. I just don't see them being late additions.
- Honestly, I don't think Gen 4 has any tokens. They didn't really care about type balancing the new mons this gen, going much more for flavour and focussing on giving evolutions to older Pokémon families. There's a much more Japanese feeling to almost every Pokémon in this gen, I think because they knew it would be the last one based on a region of Japan, so even potential tokens (Cherubi, Bronzor) are steeped in culture and don't seem like late additions or tokens.
- Gen 5 is where type balance came to the forefront of the creative process, but in a generation this large I truly don't believe there were any tokens. The designs came first, and then were adjusted to match types by changing a colour here or there or something. Notably, it seems to have been complicated with many stages (e.g. Stunfisk was originally meant to be a Water-Type fish, but they changed it to Ground/Electric for type variety and then created Bascullin because they realised they no longer had a Water-Type fish) and so any attempts at saying "this is a token" would fall flat. With such a huge roster, conclusions simply can't be made..... especially when we know sometimes the creative process was as basic as someone thinking an ice cream was an animal at the zoo.
- Diggersby is definitely a token Ground-Type, without a doubt. Bergmite and Avalugg are also probably token Ice-Type Pokémon; I think they're really cool but they literally went "OK here's a block of ice" and it leaves quite a lot to be desired. I'd also argue Binacle and Barbaracle are token Rock-Type Pokémon after they realised the only Rock-Type Pokémon they had were fossils or in a duo (Carbink and Diancie). Skrelp and Dragalge are also probably Poison-Type tokens, because their design is almost... too poisonous? Like, contrast it with Tentacruel, where the poison is in the design when you think about it but the first impression is it's a jellyfish. With Skrelp and Dragalge you notice they're Poison-Type before anything else. XY in general feels like it struggled in its character design -- I quite like many of the designs, but it definitely seemed like the higher ups limited creativity sometimes. This is the beginning of token designs IMO, where perhaps designers were legitimately told "OK create a X-Type now thanks".
- I think the only possible token in Gen 7 are Mudbray and Mudsdale, because they realised the only new Ground-Type Pokémon were Sandygast and Palossand and they're much more ghostly than Ground-Type in design. Partly just because the Mudbray line has little to do with Hawai'ian culture.
- I'd argue Gossifleur and Eldegoss are probably Gen 8 tokens because they never gave Eldegoss a G-Max form and that's really weird. I feel like once they realised it made the most sense for the gym leader of Turffield to be Grass-Type, and then realised that the only Grass-Type Pokémon they had were Dragon-Type, they threw together another cotton Pokémon and called it a day. Mainly because it seems Game Freak is averse to the first Gym leader have a Dragon-Type Pokémon. Silicobra and Sandaconda could be, too, when they realised they needed a new Pokémon in the random desert area besides just a regional variant / evolution with Yamask-G.
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I think it’s somewhere in between. I wouldn’t take it to the extent Codraroll is but I don’t think it’s a stretch to imagine the beginning of the design process having a statement of a wide variety of types, and it is consistent enough even in these smaller gens that it’s enough to call it a trend. But I doubt most of these exist purely to fill a hole; more like designers knew they had to make an electric type or an ice type and went wild with it. They probably already had ideas anyway and considered it as part of their thought process given how fundamental types are.
I think it’s less like “you needed an electric type so here’s this dog I guess,” and more like “oh this corgi I was making actually fits electric quite well; that makes it a bit more interesting in fact!”
I think it’s less like “you needed an electric type so here’s this dog I guess,” and more like “oh this corgi I was making actually fits electric quite well; that makes it a bit more interesting in fact!”
I mean, from a very novice perspective, having the first gym resisting all 3 starters type, with Ice types usually being nonexistant that early (notably an exception in gen 8 as you can tecnically grab some of them if it's snowing in wild area), and fairy types being relatively rare as early game mons as well, it makes sense that the first gym wouldn't feature dragons.
This creature was inspired by the infamous Wondertomb and Wondereye people would commonly use back when they had no weaknesses. As a Hackmons leader, I love this because it feels like they've promoted the idea of getting a viable Hackmons strategy recognized at the time.
They may have only one move each; they may only be dark-type; this however is the only match in all of the core series games in which you fight off against an AI using a full team of 6 at what is pretty much level 100. Let that soak in.
Tirtouga and Archen exist? Plus they even share typings with the Gen 1 fossils (Tirtouga with Omanyte/Kabuto and Archen with Aerodactyl).
Just wanted to set the record straight with this, Gen 5 most certainly did not skip out on fossils.
You're confusing their specific designs with the role they play on a conceptual level in the batch of new Pokémon in a generation. Given how small these batches are in recent generations, including an evolutionary family of every type is taking some effort. They are striving for a certain minimum level of representation for every typing, while keeping the overall number of new Pokémon very low. The Pokédex is then carefully assembled so that every type is represented enough to fill some quota, and it's sometimes obvious that certain evolution families are included primarily to do that. I'm not saying the Pokémon are designed to fill the quota, but it may be the reason why they were included in the dex, given a wide batch of possible designs to pick from. In that sense, yes, Thievul and Malamar are practically the same thing. On a conceptual level, they both serve to include a Dark-type family in their respective Pokédexes.
Also note that this is not a critique of the Pokémon themselves, but the regional Pokédexes of which they are a part. There are so few new Pokémon introduced with each generation that we're down to "one family of this type, one of that type, two families that have this as a secondary type" in an attempt not to under-represent any type. In that sense, the word "quota" is perhaps the wrong word, maybe "ration" is better. Without the Nickit family, Dark would have been too rare in the Galar dex. Without the Cufant family, there would have been just too few new Steel-types. Without the Snom family, Ice would have been under-represented. There are enough Pokémon of each type to fulfill the "minimum ration" of every type - but seldom any more than that. Only a few typings each generation get any representation beyond that bare minimum.
Trying to make 80-ish new Pokémon cover every dex archetype and represent every type is, metaphorically speaking, stretching the regional Pokédex thin to the point that we can see the patterns by which this is achieved. We're clearly no longer in Gen I, where they could splurge on nine Grass/Poison-types, have three pure Fire two-stage families, and three Water/Ice families. We're not in Johtho, which introduced 11 new non-legendary Flying-type families (and two legendary ones, for good measure). Sinnoh, with its tiny dex when disregarding the cross-generation evolutions, still found room for four fully evolved Bug-types - granted, it meant there are almost no native Fire-, Psychic-, or Ice-type families in that generation. They weren't overly concerned with covering every base, instead focusing on fleshing out the types they could include.
It's this mentality of "just enough of everything, but no more" I don't like. It's like a city vacation where you stress so much to visit every landmark that you don't get time to enjoy any of them. I mean, sure it is impressive the way they manage to cover every base despite so little dex space, but within every new type there is very little room for variation. Fairy won out in Galar and Grass got big in Alola, but you get the feeling they're trying desperately not to do too much with any type so as not to take up undue room in the Pokédex, and the level of too much has dwindled over time. There's a thin line between efficiency and scarcity, and that drive to cover everything-but-not-more makes the regional Pokédexes feel formulaic as a result.
EDIT: Given all of this, I'm suspecting that this...
...might be a too optimistic take. With that many boxes to tick, and such few tick marks at hand, I doubt they started by designing whatever dex they felt like first and then went around to fill out what is missing. Just fulfilling all the "dex archetypes" such as starters, early birds, rodents, pseudo-legendaries, fossils, etc, takes up more than 30 slots in the Pokédex. If they want to give each typing a certain amount of representation on top of that, there's another 36 dex spaces. We're a very long way towards 80 already. If they want to achieve the goal of sufficient representation within 80-ish dex spaces, they have to begin planning for that very early. They certainly don't arrive at near-equal representation of every typing by chance.
I presume the way they do it is to design a bunch of Pokémon to keep in a big "design bank", from which they pull the various designs to include in each regional Pokédex, with modifications as necessary. Say they make 20 different Fire-type families, they then decide to use one concept for the starter, and include one additional two-stage family and one family with Fire as a secondary typing. The remaining 17 families are kept in the bank for further modification and consideration for future generations.
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