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Format Discussion Super Staff Bros 4 Discussion Thread

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Here is my tier list. Hopefully the image decides to work. EDIT: OUTDATED! Ignore this!
 
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Discordual said:
Toxtricity is high maintenance, low reward. Setting up is often difficult, but not impossible, but it's all or nothing. The power from throat spray is pretty much necessary, but is only available once, and setting up nasty plot on top of genre change is unrealistic. But, as an all or nothing sweeper, your ability to sweep is poor, and falters in the face of strong special walls, poison resists, strong priority, or faster offensive threats. Volt switch being your offensive electric move is a large part of the reason why this is the case, as any poison resists either takes a non-STAB aura sphere, or a volt switch, which will cut your own sweep short. In addition to this, volt switch can be easily predicted, allowing the opponent to halt your sweep by switching into a grass type on the volt switch, and against ground types or unaware mons, Toxtricity can't do much damage at all, often just losing straight out.

Then, once Toxtricity has been forced out, it's hard to, and often not worth putting back into a useable position. Without the power from throat spray, even Boomburst is relatively unimpressive in power, and Toxtricity needs to set up Genre change AGAIN first in order to pose a threat, because almost all of the offensive metagame outspeeds it. Combined with Toxtricity's average bulk, this means that it likely won't be able to get into a decent position again.

TL:DR
Too reliant on all-or-nothing sweep while using volt switch as your offensive electric move, and lacking in the power needed to cut through opponents after setting up.
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I feel like even Gimmick's new set might have an easier time with dealing damage, since it doesn't really want to ever switch, out. Toxitricity is missing more than just power imo, the lack of fairies in the current metagame kind of lowers the impact of poison pix. Dunno if some form of grass type coverage would make it top tier but I think it would at least alleviate the problem. Maybe it could have an auto recycle ability or something to keep getting throat spray back?
 
Alright we're doing this in 2 waves for ease of access (dev wise):
They are in.

Buffs:
Notater517: Last Minute Lag: User no longer recharges if the opponent is killed. | Toxic Spikes -> Toxic Spikes/Recover

INStruct: Soda Break -> Fake Out. | Heavy Duty Boots -> Soda Pop | Z-Move: Satanic Panic: User and the opponent's active pokemon switch sides, both get forced out afterwards.

Kipkluif: Kip Up: Now endures, among what it already does

LittEleven: /nexthunt: now gives +2 to the receiving pokemon

Hydro: Alolachu stats | Hydrostatics: 75 bp. Water type with Electric effectiveness added

Emeri: Draco Voice -> Drake Skin: Dragon type aerilate

Jho: Venomize: now a poison type aerilate

Cake: Ingrain -> Life Dew

Yuki: too much to list, but tl;dr a lot of movesets got a lot of buffs

Nerfs:
Aelita: Rest, Sleep talk -> Leech Seed, Protect

KingSwordYT: Bamboo Kingdom: Pokemon using physical moves against this Pokemon now lose 1/16 of their maximum HP.

Andrew: new moveset: Moongeist Beam, Trick, Pollen Puff, Whammer Jammer
 
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INStruct said:
Alright we're doing this in 2 waves for ease of access (dev wise):
They are in.

Buffs:
Notater517: Last Minute Lag: User no longer recharges if the opponent is killed. | Toxic Spikes -> Toxic Spikes/Recover

INStruct: Soda Break -> Fake Out. | Heavy Duty Boots -> Soda Pop | Z-Move: Satanic Panic: User and the opponent's active pokemon switch sides, both get forced out afterwards.

Kipkluif: Kip Up: Now endures, among what it already does

LittEleven: /nexthunt: now gives +2 to the receiving pokemon

Hydro: Alolachu stats | Hydrostatics: 75 bp. Water type with Electric effectiveness added

Emeri: Draco Voice -> Drake Skin: Dragon type aerilate

Jho: Venomize: now a poison type aerilate

Cake: Ingrain -> Life Dew

Yuki: too much to list, but tl;dr a lot of movesets got a lot of buffs

Nerfs:
Aelita: Rest, Sleep talk -> Leech Seed, Protect

KingSwordYT: Bamboo Kingdom: Pokemon using physical moves against this Pokemon now lose 1/16 of their maximum HP.

Andrew: new moveset: Moongeist Beam, Trick, Pollen Puff, Whammer Jammer
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Very hard nerf on Andrew, although I'd say pretty deserved. He'll probably be going down a tier or two after this. Aelita will probably keep their tier but just barely, it's definetly a lot easier to take down. But hey, we haven't played the buffs yet, so who knows. Things may be different
 
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Musite said:
Very hard nerf on Andrew, although I'd say pretty deserved. He'll probably be going down a tier or two after this. Aelita will probably keep their tier but just barely, it's definetly a lot easier to take down. But hey, we haven't played the buffs yet, so who knows. Things may be different
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Yeah, my longevity took a hit so I can't just come in, tank something, transform, heal up and turn into an unkillable wall

I can still do that it just takes a little more work and I still do what I built my mon to do (NO FUN ZONE) so getting me isnt an instant win condition any more
 
INStruct said:
Unless there is a technological issue with Pokemon Showdown, we are not changing anything to something completely new.

The only thing we removed was the custom hazards because of issues with the client, were not changing anything else.
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I think the recent buff to your mon says otherwise.
 
Enderevilherobrine said:
I think the recent buff to your mon says otherwise.
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wasn’t that much of a change because soda break really was just fake out + uturn, also it was my idea as a buff not bc of QC and i just wanted something difficult to code

but man that custom move amirite :^)
 
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Has anyone else noticed that phiwings can still get a free kill w/o downsides in some conditions? The added "dies if opponent dies" for the signature move only applies if he's still active, so if the opponent isn't a ghost type and doesn't have Magic Guard, you can just let them wear themselves down with Struggle, then switch out on the turn that the recoil knocks them out. Priority +1 free kill.
 
Friar Laurence said:
Has anyone else noticed that phiwings can still get a free kill w/o downsides in some conditions? The added "dies if opponent dies" for the signature move only applies if he's still active, so if the opponent isn't a ghost type and doesn't have Magic Guard, you can just let them wear themselves down with Struggle, then switch out on the turn that the recoil knocks them out. Priority +1 free kill.
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honestly yeah, i’m probably gonna kill that exploit next wave
 
On the topic of exploits, was the exploit where you can take advantage of second wind / dragon heart twice (for those who don't know, you do it by getting dh/sw before you mega, then you can get it again while mega) killed?
 
Unfunnydededenotxd said:
On the topic of exploits, was the exploit where you can take advantage of second wind / dragon heart twice (for those who don't know, you do it by getting dh/sw before you mega, then you can get it again while mega) killed?
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that I'll leave in.

.m. notation is something I don't wanna implement here.
 
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With 2 alts lingering in top 25 I think I have enough experience to make a somewhat okay tier list.
Mons within the tiers are mostly unordered. I have seen some mons less than others, so I might be wrong on some.
Hope this helps/is enjoyed!
SSB4 tier list aQrator.png
 
Wave 2 is now live!

new stuff

Buffs:
tiki: right on cue: Has more moves to choose from, and now uses 1-5 of them.
thewaffleman: Cotton guard over Iron Defense
ptoad: croak: now rolls 2 boosts before attacking, but stops getting buffs after 8 positive boosts
coconut: Devolution Beam: If the opponent cannot devolve, then the opponent gets -1 in all stats bar acc/eva
alpha: Blistering Ice Age: 190 BP and special, allows Alpha to get the ability ice age so Heavy Hailstorm is permanent while this Pokemon is out.
Gimmick: Ability is now a true echoed voice. Now has Unburden innate.
Trickster: Soul Shattering Stare: Cost to curse now 25% of max HP.
Nol: Trick Room is now Giga Drain, Mad Hacks: Summons trick room on top of what it already does

Nerfs:
brouha: Flying types no longer get a defense boost in turbulence
lamp: Recover over Strength Sap, Candlewax is now Soul Heart
EpicNikolai: The secondary chance to par/burn is now 25% opposed to originally 100%
phiwings99: Exploit to kill opponent without killing yourself is fixed

Beats me tbh:
grimAuxiliatrix: If someone sets up rain while grimAuxiliatrix is on the field, Aluminum alloy will now activate, giving it +1 def, +1 spd, and -1 spe.
 
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INStruct said:
Wave 2 is coming eventually, but here's whats going on:

Buffs:
tiki: right on cue: Has more moves to choose from, and now uses 1-5 of them.
thewaffleman: Cotton guard over Iron Defense
ptoad: croak: now rolls 2 boosts before attacking, but stops getting buffs after 8 positive boosts
coconut: Devolution Beam: If the opponent cannot devolve, then the opponent gets -1 in all stats bar acc/eva
alpha: Blistering Ice Age: 190 BP and special, allows Alpha to get the ability ice age so Heavy Hailstorm is permanent while this Pokemon is out.
Gimmick: Ability is now a true echoed voice. Now has Unburden innate.
Trickster: Soul Shattering Stare: Cost to curse now 25% of max HP.
Nol: Trick Room is now Giga Drain, Mad Hacks: Summons trick room on top of what it already does

Nerfs:
brouha: Flying types no longer get a defense boost in turbulence
lamp: Recover over Strength Sap, Candlewax is now Soul Heart
EpicNikolai: The secondary chance to par/burn is now 25% opposed to originally 100%
phiwings99: Exploit to kill opponent without killing yourself is fixed
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All sound like great buffs/nerfs. I'm glad Tiki will now do things.
 
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