Unpopular opinions

I feel like baby pokemon (gamewise) shouldnt have been "this old pokemon, but worse!", because thats one of the most frustrating things about them. You're stuck with a bad pokemon, comparable to the likes of caterpie in usefulness, while needing to either fulfill a more niche/harder evolution method, or just grinding until level 30, which is too much time stuck in useless baby phase.

Most other pokémon you can get with the same bad first evo will already be evolved by the time you finish the baby evo grind, and what you get from it is just not worth it. Why grind a pichu for the high affection when all you're getting for it is a pikachu? You're better off grinding for something like crobat.
 
When I was little, I loved to get my hands on the baby Pokemon. And I still liked Munchlax.
They did a good job in introducing the breeding mechanic. But I hoped Gen 3 or later would put these Pokemon in the wild. Glad at least in Gen 4 you can see them in the wild, but they are usually awful.
B2W2 did it honestly the best from my memory, you can get Elekid or Magby around the second Gym. But they take too much time to reach their first evolution.

Still miss we didn't get Baby Meowth. And Baby Vulpix, Tritales?, is pretty cute too.
 
mertyville said:
They did a good job in introducing the breeding mechanic.
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...What? Maybe it's because I started in gen 3 when incenses were already a thing (and had the first baby mons I interacted with be the incense-using wynaut, budew, and chingling), but I have a hard time parsing how mons that can't breed (many of which also require specific items to be bred) can be a good introduction to breeding.
 
Ironmage said:
...What? Maybe it's because I started in gen 3 when incenses were already a thing (and had the first baby mons I interacted with be the incense-using wynaut, budew, and chingling), but I have a hard time parsing how mons that can't breed (many of which also require specific items to be bred) can be a good introduction to breeding.
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Well, maybe "good job introducing" is a bit strong there. More like "made you aware the breeding mechanic existed".

"Hey, I'm missing entries in my Dex, where are these one-off Pokemon?"
"Oh, they're not on-offs, they're Baby Pokemon you can only get through Breeding."
"I've thought of that but the Pokemon after them only had Eggs of their species"
"That's because you need one of the parents holding an Incense"
"... Why?"
"Well, the Baby Pokemon didn't exist before now and they just can't have that species of Pokemon suddenly hatching into them"
"One, yes they can, if its meant to be a Baby of the species retcon them laying those Baby Pokemon Eggs. Two, so are these Babies like mutants than? Like, before they're fully formed we're forcing them to come into existence as a incomplete version of their mother's species?"
"... Yes..."
"No wonder why they aren't good in battle."
"And also because they're babies."
 
I think baby pokémon should have introduced a new mechanic with them. Make it so that they can't actually battle and you have to raise them, giving them goodies to evolve. In trade, maybe they're stronger/have guaranteed better stats/just come with something extra to reward your efforts.

And also make so that babies of bad first forms don't take too long to evolve.
 
Lemingue said:
I think baby pokémon should have introduced a new mechanic with them. Make it so that they can't actually battle and you have to raise them, giving them goodies to evolve. In trade, maybe they're stronger/have guaranteed better stats/just come with something extra to reward your efforts.

And also make so that babies of bad first forms don't take too long to evolve.
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There's an interesting example of this in X and Y due to the fact that baby Pokemon are guaranteed 3 perfect IVs in those games. There's a cave where you can catch both Mime Jr and Mr. Mime; catching Mr. Mime obviously means you get a better Pokemon upfront. But catching a Mime Jr means you're very likely to end up with a stronger Pokemon in the long run.

In general though, baby Pokemon already do have an incentive - they bring new moves the Pokemon wouldn't otherwise have learned*. Marill gets different egg moves from Azurill. So imo that's enough incentive to have them and to go the extra mile to obtain them. And as they often evolve by friendship, it can be as quick as you like.

*Assuming the benefits are relevant, anyway; Sudowoodo gets nothing of note from Bonsly, for instance.
 
green_typhlosion said:
There's an interesting example of this in X and Y due to the fact that baby Pokemon are guaranteed 3 perfect IVs in those games.
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FUN FACT: That was a mistake. GF wanted to make it so Legendaries were guaranteed 3 perfect IVs and the way they did it is by making the "Undiscovered" Egg Group have that trait... somehow completely forgetting the Baby Pokemon and Nidorina were also in that group so they too could be gotten with 3 Perfect IVs (Nidorina can be caught on Kalos Route 11).
 
Pikachu315111 said:
FUN FACT: That was a mistake. GF wanted to make it so Legendaries were guaranteed 3 perfect IVs and the way they did it is by making the "Undiscovered" Egg Group have that trait... somehow completely forgetting the Baby Pokemon and Nidorina were also in that group so they too could be gotten with 3 Perfect IVs (Nidorina can be caught on Kalos Route 11).
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I'm aware, but it was a mistake I don't think should have been fixed. As I said, it made babies more valuable (at least when caught in the wild) and generally made breeding a bit easier in the way every generation generally has done. It certainly made me less likely to trash baby mons at least. It was a solid quality of life change that wasn't too overwhelming.

Though it did make hunting specific Hidden Powers a bit trickier. But I guess everything comes with a price.
 
Pokemon Z would not have saved Kalos at all.

In most cases the third versions expand the dex and give focus to the third legendary, in this case Zygarde. While I do think the plot would have been retrofitted to include Zygarde odds are it would have been a similar case to Alola in which Dexio and Girl Dexio are involved with the Zygarde situation and possibly have doggarde travel around with them. That said odds are Lysandre's goal would still be the same, his admins would still be bland as ever, and Kalos would still be a bland boring region to travel through. I sincerely doubt anything would have been drastically changed in such a way that it would "save" Kalos. Out of anything the inclusion of more pokemon would make it worse since less Kalos mons would shine.

At the end of the day I think Z would have been more like USUM than anything really good.
 
Siggu said:
But USUM is good...
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That's only because SM was good (NOT great, but good). USUM barely added anything and on top of that sloppily wedged in new story elements (notably Necrozma & Ultra Recon Squad) which ultimately ended up messing if not ruining the original story. The post game episode with Rainbow Rocket was fun but at the same time, looking back and comparing it with the Ultra Beast Hunt, felt like shallow fan pandering that removed a better post game episode.
 
If Z was on the scale of B2W2 it would absolutely have saved Kalos. The main problem with the region is that the amount of content falls off so much after the 3rd gym, adding a few more routes/towns and a meatier postgame would have worked wonders. Although I guess I am in the minority here in that I find every pokemon game's story lackluster and am just as likely to button mash my way through the plot of XY and SM.
 
Revenge of Depressed Gay said:
Pokemon Z would not have saved Kalos at all.

In most cases the third versions expand the dex and give focus to the third legendary, in this case Zygarde. While I do think the plot would have been retrofitted to include Zygarde odds are it would have been a similar case to Alola in which Dexio and Girl Dexio are involved with the Zygarde situation and possibly have doggarde travel around with them. That said odds are Lysandre's goal would still be the same, his admins would still be bland as ever, and Kalos would still be a bland boring region to travel through. I sincerely doubt anything would have been drastically changed in such a way that it would "save" Kalos. Out of anything the inclusion of more pokemon would make it worse since less Kalos mons would shine.

At the end of the day I think Z would have been more like USUM than anything really good.
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Honestly I do not think "Z" specifically was going to be a thing. I personally think that the Cells and 10%/Complete forms were thought up after they decided to not have follow-up titles and work on a new gen for the 20th anniversary instead. What little trace data is left in Gen VI shows some interesting things

-There are TWO unused games that, if you hack a Pokemon to be from them, both say they were caught in Kalos
-Both Thousand Waves and Thousand Arrows are in the coding of Gen VI
-There are 2 unused flags for Zygarde forms.

The main thing is Land's Wrath. It has the same power and accuracy as the Thousand moves, but has no additional effect. It's useless. In fact what would be the point of making not one, but TWO unused moves for one Pokemon, with the same stats as Land's Wrath outside of having secondary effects? I believe the original intent of them is that in the pair of Kalos follow-ups, Zygarde was going to get the Kyurem/Necrozma treatment and get two version-exclusive forms. For one Land's Wrath transforms into Thousand Waves, and for the other it transforms into Thousand Arrows.

Whether or not this follow-up pair was a sequel like B2W2 or an "Upper version" split in two like USUM is anyone's guess. But it would almost certainly not only allow the ORAS megas to be used in Kalos, but probably added new ones(The only ones I have any confidence in guessing are probably Slowking and Froslass, similar to how Gardevoir was in XY and Gallade was added in ORAS).

If I'd had to guess HOW early the follow-ups were scrapped, I would say at the latest it was sometime right before the development of the anime's "XYZ" season, due to the Zygarde cells being a major plot point in it.
 
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Nokocchi said:
Honestly I do not "Z" specifically was going to be a thing. I personally think that the Cells and 10%/Complete forms were thought up after they decided to not have follow-up titles and work on a new gen for the 20th anniversary instead. What little trace data is left in Gen VI shows some interesting things

-There are TWO unused games that, if you hack a Pokemon to be from them, both say they were caught in Kalos
-Both Thousand Waves and Thousand Arrows are in the coding of Gen VI
-There are 2 unused flags for Zygarde forms.

(...) I believe the original intent of them is that in the pair of Kalos follow-ups, Zygarde was going to get the Kyurem/Necrozma treatment and get two version-exclusive forms. For one Land's Wrath transforms into Thousand Waves, and for the other it transforms into Thousand Arrows.
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Whenever anyone says "Z Version" I think they're using it as an umbrella term for whatever the follow-up to XY would have been. Whether it was a lone enhanced Z Version or a dual sequel XZ and YZ, people aren't concerned with what it was and more that we just never got it.
 
Navzyx-kun said:
barbaracle actually looks pretty good
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It's definitely an interesting design (though I do feel a bit sorry for the Binacle acting as its feet), has a good Ability in Tough Claws, and good on the Physical side. Though what I think holds it back is its Typing and middling Speed (too slow normally, and I think over the threshold where it could take good advantage with Trick Room). It does get Shell Smash though, while it doesn't have the high defenses as other Shell Smash users, if it can get a few off it would be a pretty dangerous sweeper.
 
Pikachu315111 said:
It's definitely an interesting design (though I do feel a bit sorry for the Binacle acting as its feet), has a good Ability in Tough Claws, and good on the Physical side. Though what I think holds it back is its Typing and middling Speed (too slow normally, and I think over the threshold where it could take good advantage with Trick Room). It does get Shell Smash though, while it doesn't have the high defenses as other Shell Smash users, if it can get a few off it would be a pretty dangerous sweeper.
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Barbaracle would be so much better with different abilities. It's current ones are pretty bad, being Sniper and Pickpocket, and the best one being Tough Claws. While I don't know what other abilities they could give it that would make sense AND be useful, I'm sure there are some out there.
 
ThatOneSpork said:
Barbaracle would be so much better with different abilities. It's current ones are pretty bad, being Sniper and Pickpocket, and the best one being Tough Claws. While I don't know what other abilities they could give it that would make sense AND be useful, I'm sure there are some out there.
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Adaptability never hurts. Filter could help dull its weaknesses. Mold Breaker? No Guard?
 
Pikachu315111 said:
Adaptability never hurts. Filter could help dull its weaknesses. Mold Breaker? No Guard?
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I think Adaptability would make sense, and also looking at other abilities i think Unnerve could be useful and makes a lot of sense when you look at it closely. Some other abilities that could be cool on it are Hyper Cutter and Defiant, both seeming to make sense due to just it in general. Also, Ironmage makes a good point in Solid Rock instead of Filter.
 
Suspicious Derivative said:
Partly agree with what you are saying, but I just wanted to reply to the bolded parts here. For me personally, new Pokémon are always the most exciting part of a new generation and one of the main things that keeps my interest in the series alive. I love seeing new Pokémon I haven't seen before in the games, seeing a new one always makes me go: "What the heck is that? I want one!". If they didn't introduce new Pokémon every generation, I feel that the series would get very dull and stale extremely quickly. But this is just how I feel, I guess we have different preferences. And I think one reason I'm not super excited for either L:A or BD/SP is due to the fact that they will (likely) not have any new Pokémon (and if they do, it will probably just be a small amount like in US/UM or the S/S DLC). A new generation would have been more exciting for me, but at the moment I think it is too early for that so I am fine with waiting for a while longer (especially if more development time means we will get a better game in the end).
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I mean they could always try to use Regional Variants as a way to fill in the gaps for those Pokémon if they want to do BW again. They seem to be using regional variants as a way to create new Pokémon but with also restraining themselves to go over the thousand mark, though I’m not sure what’s the point since they are going to be introducing new Pokémon anyway, and the 1000 mark will be reached within the next two generations anyway. Regardless, it seems that the way Regional Variants are handled is that they are mechanically new Pokémon, but are the same Pokémon due to name. That’s the vibe I get. A game like BW would require at least 150 Pokémon. That’s a lot, but assuming that 70-80 are new Pokémon, regional variants would be the remaining 70-80. A lot, but it does give opportunity for a more balanced distribution of regional forms for different Gens than before. Not to mention BW was hated on for using only new Pokémon, new regional variants would be a compromise, like: Here’s Galarian Mothim! It’s Mothim, but mechanically speaking it’s not Mothim if that makes any sense.
 
ThatOneSpork said:
Barbaracle would be so much better with different abilities. It's current ones are pretty bad, being Sniper and Pickpocket, and the best one being Tough Claws. While I don't know what other abilities they could give it that would make sense AND be useful, I'm sure there are some out there.
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Tough Claws is good tho. Barbaracle just suffers from bad defensive typing and Base Stats that can't keep up with this crazy power creep.

Y'all wilding out here wanting to give Adaptability to a mon with 105 Atk and Shell Smash.
 
Barbaracle's problem, honestly, is just that by XY not one person was thinking "you know what we really need? Another Water/Rock type". At that point we already had Kabutops, Omastar, Corsola, Relicanth, and Carracosta. In fact, counting Barbaracle and Drednaw, we haven't received a new Water/Rock Pokémon in all of 2 gens: 4 and 7. After a certain point, people just stopped caring and weren't willing to give Barbaracle a fair shake without them doing something really novel and cool with it's design, and I can't really blame them. Especially because I think Binacle has one of the worst XY models (not designs, but models) and was a Pokémon suited to the 2D era more than the 3D one, which is unfortunate since it's never had and probably will never have a 2D sprite, and Barbaracle can't be caught in the wild so most people just skipped out on Binacle and never used it.

Speaking in terms of battle prowess, Barbaracle is actually the best Water/Rock Type Pokémon by a country mile. It's a really bad typing, and every Water/Rock Pokémon is currently ZU besides Barbaracle, who's NUBL (so, banned from NU for being too strong). Barbaracle's unpopularity isn't because it's weak, it's because of everything else.
 
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