Unpopular opinions

[Celever]

This. Severely underrated point.

A mon you like got a cross-gen evo you don't like?

Good news then, that changes absolutely nothing about the pre-evo and now you can use an Eviolite to make it bulkier!

Ehhh I think the main problem is honestly how not evolving a Pokémon works. You have to press B on the evolution screen every damn time which gets really tiring really quickly, plus it's easy to get distracted as a battle ends and forget to do it and it's irreversible.

If there were a "don't evolve" toggle on individual Pokémon, people wouldn't mind so much.

Edit: No point replying to below with a new post but no, Everstone is a terrible solution. Items are an integral part of gameplay, and not being allowed to use one on your Pokémon because you want it to stay NFE is awful game design.

 

[Siggu]

Ehhh I think the main problem is honestly how not evolving a Pokémon works. You have to press B on the evolution screen every damn time which gets really tiring really quickly, plus it's easy to get distracted as a battle ends and forget to do it and it's irreversible.

If there were a "don't evolve" toggle on individual Pokémon, people wouldn't mind so much.

It's called holding an Everstone.

... oh, wait, that depends on you having an Everstone to begin with...

(e.g. In DPP, the only guaranteed Everstone is from the infamous Mindy in Snowpoint City)

 

[willempju]

Ehhh I think the main problem is honestly how not evolving a Pokémon works. You have to press B on the evolution screen every damn time which gets really tiring really quickly, plus it's easy to get distracted as a battle ends and forget to do it and it's irreversible.

If there were a "don't evolve" toggle on individual Pokémon, people wouldn't mind so much.

Edit: No point replying to below with a new post but no, Everstone is a terrible solution. Items are an integral part of gameplay, and not being allowed to use one on your Pokémon because you want it to stay NFE is awful game design.

Well, hardly any of the later added cross-evolutions evolves by level-up, so in most cases this is not a factor (unless you really like Ancient Power Piloswine ...)

 

[ThatOneSpork]

Ehhh I think the main problem is honestly how not evolving a Pokémon works. You have to press B on the evolution screen every damn time which gets really tiring really quickly, plus it's easy to get distracted as a battle ends and forget to do it and it's irreversible.

Well, what better way is there to implement a new way to stop Pokemon from evolving other than introducing something that doesn't make much sense? They could introduce something that you select on the summary screen, but how would that make sense in game? I think that they made a smart way of keeping them from evolving with the everstone, because you don't want it to evolve. I agree that you should have to do something to get that ease of access item, and then sacrificing an item slot to do that. You want a Level 100 Dreepy? Then you have to sacrifice something for that, and it makes sense.

 

[Suspicious Derivative]

I have been thinking for a while what Pokemon needs to do to keep a large portion of fans happy.

And I'm wondering, if it wouldn't be better that Game Freak were to stop making traditional Pokemon Generations, but try to deliver on stuff like the upcoming Legends Arceus and build on it.
Like, do we need a new region, 50+ new Pokemon and regional forms, a random new mechanic that breaks the game and go through the same repetitve steps over and over again? Get Pokedex, pick 1 of 3 starters, beat (friendly) "rival", beat gyms, beat "evil" team, encounter box legendary in a boring cutscene, maybe catch box legendary and beat Pokemon league.
I mean having a fix fomular isn't bad. I mean Super Mario games are fun, right? (Unless you talk about the "New" Super Mario Bros games IMO)

For me new Pokemon alone aren't enough and not necessary needed. At least not in that large amount. Especially with the insane amount of legendaries we have these days, instead of giving more focus on the old ones like they do with Arceus.

Since they cut Pokemon anyways, that makes it more so important.

As for traditional games, instead of polishing them, maybe they should just let the price reflect what people are getting and make up with quantity. Adding all the Pokemon alone will make people tolerate playing the same stuff over and over again.

Partly agree with what you are saying, but I just wanted to reply to the bolded parts here. For me personally, new Pokémon are always the most exciting part of a new generation and one of the main things that keeps my interest in the series alive. I love seeing new Pokémon I haven't seen before in the games, seeing a new one always makes me go: "What the heck is that? I want one!". If they didn't introduce new Pokémon every generation, I feel that the series would get very dull and stale extremely quickly. But this is just how I feel, I guess we have different preferences. And I think one reason I'm not super excited for either L:A or BD/SP is due to the fact that they will (likely) not have any new Pokémon (and if they do, it will probably just be a small amount like in US/UM or the S/S DLC). A new generation would have been more exciting for me, but at the moment I think it is too early for that so I am fine with waiting for a while longer (especially if more development time means we will get a better game in the end).

 

[Codraroll]

I think I've finally realized why I don't like Dynamax or Gigantamax very much. They are relatively underwhelming.

Say you've got your Magnezone out, and battling a Blastoise. It's normally a comfortable situation to be in. The opponent may be a bipedal turtle the size of a grown man, with heavy water cannons on its back, but you've got the power of lightning at your command.

Then the Blastoise Gigantamaxes.

Suddenly you're facing a monster the size of an apartment building, armed like a battleship with cannons large enough to fit your Magnezone inside pointing in every direction. G-Max Blastoise is almost 20 times taller than Blastoise, so tall the stadium lights can't light more than half of it. Applying the square-cube law a little liberally, it's nearly 8000 times more massive than regular Blastoise. It looks like it could blast your Magnezone across the Galarian Channel and raze the whole city in the process. Surely this titan must be absolutely unstoppable, to the point that Magnezone can't even tickle it before being stomped flatter than tin foil, or blasted into a pebble at the bottom of a new lake filling its entire half of the stadium?

Then you look at the battle effects of Gigantamaxing. Blastoise now has its HP multiplied by 2 (not 8000, as its size would suggest), and its strongest attack has got a +20 boost to its base power (1/6 more) plus a secondary effect. The offensive stats remain the same, as do the defenses. The mighty-looking G-Max Cannonade won't obliterate Magnezone, it's still a 2HKO. In return, Magnezone can 2HKO with Thunderbolt as well, without any boosts (Specs Thunder is even a 1HKO). Effectively, the only thing that happens is that the Super-effective damage multiplier is negated.

Despite Dynamax Formes being thousands of times bigger than the base Pokémon, and looking like they play by completely different rules, they barely hit any harder. Defensively, they hold up twice as well as ordinary Pokémon, but not more than that either. There is a power boost there, but it's laughably disproportionate to the visual changes. When your Pokémon grows to the size of a battleship, we expect it to hit and take hits like a battleship too, but the functional upgrade in terms of gameplay is minimal.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that a Blastoise with all stats multiplied by 1000 would be a very un-fun thing to face in battle. For practical reasons, it's completely reasonable that the stat upgrade during Dynamax is limited. Gameplay has to go before other concerns, after all.

But it still creates a dissonance between the visual impression and the gameplay impact of Dynamax. Dynamax and Gigantamax appear to imply a thousandfold increase in power levels, but when the offensive/defensive boosts turns out only to amount to x1.17/x2, it kinda feels underwhelming. It's as if the feature promises a lot more than it delivers. I mean, it's fine to deliver x1.17/x2 boosts, for gameplay reasons this is more than sufficient, but the promise of x1000 then feels really misplaced. It really gives the impression that what you're facing isn't a giant raging kaiju, but a parade balloon. It's not "all style, no substance", but there's so much style that the substance barely registers.

Or in other words, "don't create giga Pokémon if you can't let them play like giga Pokémon".

 

[Siggu]

I think I've finally realized why I don't like Dynamax or Gigantamax very much. They are relatively underwhelming.

Say you've got your Magnezone out, and battling a Blastoise. It's normally a comfortable situation to be in. The opponent may be a bipedal turtle the size of a grown man, with heavy water cannons on its back, but you've got the power of lightning at your command.

Then the Blastoise Gigantamaxes.

Suddenly you're facing a monster the size of an apartment building, armed like a battleship with cannons large enough to fit your Magnezone inside pointing in every direction. G-Max Blastoise is almost 20 times taller than Blastoise, so tall the stadium lights can't light more than half of it. Applying the square-cube law a little liberally, it's nearly 8000 times more massive than regular Blastoise. It looks like it could blast your Magnezone across the Galarian Channel and raze the whole city in the process. Surely this titan must be absolutely unstoppable, to the point that Magnezone can't even tickle it before being stomped flatter than tin foil, or blasted into a pebble at the bottom of a new lake filling its entire half of the stadium?

Then you look at the battle effects of Gigantamaxing. Blastoise now has its HP multiplied by 2 (not 8000, as its size would suggest), and its strongest attack has got a +20 boost to its base power (1/6 more) plus a secondary effect. The offensive stats remain the same, as do the defenses. The mighty-looking G-Max Cannonade won't obliterate Magnezone, it's still a 2HKO. In return, Magnezone can 2HKO with Thunderbolt as well, without any boosts (Specs Thunder is even a 1HKO). Effectively, the only thing that happens is that the Super-effective damage multiplier is negated.

Despite Dynamax Formes being thousands of times bigger than the base Pokémon, and looking like they play by completely different rules, they barely hit any harder. Defensively, they hold up twice as well as ordinary Pokémon, but not more than that either. There is a power boost there, but it's laughably disproportionate to the visual changes. When your Pokémon grows to the size of a battleship, we expect it to hit and take hits like a battleship too, but the functional upgrade in terms of gameplay is minimal.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that a Blastoise with all stats multiplied by 1000 would be a very un-fun thing to face in battle. For practical reasons, it's completely reasonable that the stat upgrade during Dynamax is limited. Gameplay has to go before other concerns, after all.

But it still creates a dissonance between the visual impression and the gameplay impact of Dynamax. Dynamax and Gigantamax appear to imply a thousandfold increase in power levels, but when the offensive/defensive boosts turns out only to amount to x1.17/x2, it kinda feels underwhelming. It's as if the feature promises a lot more than it delivers. I mean, it's fine to deliver x1.17/x2 boosts, for gameplay reasons this is more than sufficient, but the promise of x1000 then feels really misplaced. It really gives the impression that what you're facing isn't a giant raging kaiju, but a parade balloon. It's not "all style, no substance", but there's so much style that the substance barely registers.

Or in other words, "don't create giga Pokémon if you can't let them play like giga Pokémon".

Well, technically they kind of work like illusions, supposedly warping space to look bigger... but that raises even more questions.

 

[ThatOneSpork]

Well, technically they kind of work like illusions, supposedly warping space to look bigger... but that raises even more questions.

The entire story of Dynamax is kinda weird, but I don't think it's a terrible feature. While not the one I wanted, it's still an interesting one nonetheless. I prefer it over z-moves honestly, with my own reasons behind that. I do think Mega's returning would have been a better thing for everyone, but I still find Dynamax/Gigantamax useful and interesting.

 

[Ironmage]

My issue with Dmax's mechanics isn't that they don't line up with the aesthetics (if I thought it really did, it would probably amuse me like the fact that Nidoking is mostly a special attacker nowadays). It's that it's too boring for how strong it is. It's a stat boost, and replaces specific move effects with generic ones. It's designed to get around ways of stalling out turns and reduces (proportional) flat damage, further pushing the interaction to just being a comparison of stats. At least status Z-moves are diverse and give reasons to run otherwise completely useless options.

 

[Samtendo09]

suppose while were talking on unpopular opinions on characters, I never understood why people called the Gen 4 evolutions ugly or how they "ruined" the Pokemon. I really like most of them, with Mismagius, Togekiss, Leafeon, Magmortar, Honchkrow, Froslass and Lickylicky being some of my favorites. I don't see how adding cross-evolutions ruined the Pokemon, if anything it made the likes of Yanma, Piloswine, Togetic, and Roselia actually good in battles. The only one I'd really call ugly is Probopass; and while I have heard people call Lickylicky ugly, I disagree. I think its very cute, especially its Platinum sprite, it looks so happy! It reminds me of a puppy who just wants to lick you, though I'm not a dog person in real life, I'm a cat person.

I'm guessing those negative reviews is probably why we didn't get any cross gens with the exception of Sylveon until Gen 8, which is sad, because I've always thought Pokemon like Swoobat, Chatot, Noivern, Lumineon, Skrelp, and Clauncher could use a new evolution. I'm also not a fan of how they handled it in Gen 8. I don't like how they are tied to the regional variant instead of the base form, because the base form of Farfetch'd and Corsola still suck despite their Regional forms getting an evolution.

Honestly? You are not the only one who have a generally good feeling surrounding about the Gen 4 cross-generational evolutions. The only one I'd really call ugly is Probopass like you call it such, and I do prefer Magmortar over Magmar, believe it or not.

Cross-evolutions does not ruin Pokémon, and instead allows for better balance without getting compromised like what happened to Mega Evolution in the mainline games, while also making sense. Having Luvdisc, Volbeat or Illumise about 500 BST or a bit higher wouldn't make a mint of sense since their design suggests they are supposed to be somewhat weak, if not very weak in Luvdisc's case. Their potential evolution, however, can make a BST as high as I mentioned making sense, and even make a sense of progression and accomplishment. That's coming from a guy who made an extremely rare fan evolution for both Volbeat and Illumise, each having a whopping 555 BST, same as Arcanine's!

The worst about the complaints regarding the cross-evolutions is simply out of blatant nostalgia reasons instead of judging them in their own merits. Like, I get it, not all cross-evolutions are winners viable-wise, but would you rather have Tangela still be a weak single-stage Pokémon?

Good news is, likely because of the overall positive reception towards Regional Evolutions, fans are starting to wanting standard cross-evolutions again, particularly for the likes of Dunsparce. The severe lack thereof traditional cross-evolutions since Gen 5 and 7 did none and Gen 6 only gave us Sylveon, also contributed to make fans to miss this feature. The introduction of regional variants helped soften the blow though.

And while it does sucks for the regular variants to still not evolve further while their regional counterpart can, this is not a major dealbreaker for me, since not only they were supposed to be their own species despite sharing basic design and name... would you rather have Galarian Farfetch'd or Galarian Linoone to not evolve further and have limited viability to the point fans calls them a waste of Galarian Form slots, or G-Corsola to not have access of Eviolite shall Cursola not being made?

Overall, new cross-evolutions should be made soon or later, especially since things like Mega Evolution and especially G-Max prove that those mechanics are not permanent solution.

... Now wanna hear something that annoys me? The opposite in that some people wanted a Pokémon removed from an evolutionary line. That don't apply to just some of the more "infamous" cross-evos, but also the likes of Zoroark, Silvally (though that can stay as a form in a severe fan reboot), Purugly and Toucannon without replacing them would cripple their pre-evo that would make them come off as not only incomplete, but also risk of being useless and expandable. Not necessarily true for Rhydon, Magneton, Electabuzz and Magmar as they can on their own, but for everything else, this will be a severe problem if the final evo is removed.

 

[ThatOneSpork]

Honestly? You are not the only one who have a generally good feeling surrounding about the Gen 4 cross-generational evolutions. The only one I'd really call ugly is Probopass like you call it such, and I do prefer Magmortar over Magmar, believe it or not.

And the thing about that is yes, I do have to agree that it is ugly. But it does fit pretty well as an evolution, and not all pokemon need to look amazing.

... Now wanna hear something that annoys me? The opposite in that some people wanted a Pokémon removed from an evolutionary line. That don't apply to just some of the more "infamous" cross-evos, but also the likes of Zoroark, Silvally (though that can stay as a form in a severe fan reboot), Purugly and Toucannon without replacing them would cripple their pre-evo that would make them come off as not only incomplete, but also risk of being useless and expandable. Not necessarily true for Rhydon, Magneton, Electabuzz and Magmar as they can on their own, but for everything else, this will be a severe problem if the final evo is removed.

You make many valid points, and I have to add something. People need to know the actual reason they have an evolution. In Type: Null's case, the story explains why and how it evolves. And I notice that in every gen past gen 2, it seems like they try to make every Pokemon have a reason to be caught. Zorua would be next to useless if it did not have an evolution and Glameow would just be useless no matter what because there are just so many Pokemon that out class it. They give all pokemon a use, a reason to catch it in game. And removing any of the cross evolutions would absolutely destroy it's usefulness, with Chansey and Scyther being a prime example. They are actually threats with Eviolite, but remove their access to Eviolite, they just become next to useless in game and competitively.
TL;DR Every cross evolution/controversial evolution was very good for the Pokemon in question for many reasons.

 

[Sonikku A]

And the thing about that is yes, I do have to agree that it is ugly. But it does fit pretty well as an evolution, and not all pokemon need to look amazing.


You make many valid points, and I have to add something. People need to know the actual reason they have an evolution. In Type: Null's case, the story explains why and how it evolves. And I notice that in every gen past gen 2, it seems like they try to make every Pokemon have a reason to be caught. Zorua would be next to useless if it did not have an evolution and Glameow would just be useless no matter what because there are just so many Pokemon that out class it. They give all pokemon a use, a reason to catch it in game. And removing any of the cross evolutions would absolutely destroy it's usefulness, with Chansey and Scyther being a prime example. They are actually threats with Eviolite, but remove their access to Eviolite, they just become next to useless in game and competitively.
TL;DR Every cross evolution/controversial evolution was very good for the Pokemon in question for many reasons.

Then sadly Dusknoir and Blissey are outclassed by their preevos
I feel like Little Cup needs a Middle Cup
Also >giving a baby mon to one that doesn't need it
Looking at you Wobuffet. At least Chimecho needed it due to rarity, but many others don't. And the art clash is large after Gen 4

 

[Samtendo09]

Also >giving a baby mon to one that doesn't need it
Looking at you Wobuffet. At least Chimecho needed it due to rarity, but many others don't. And the art clash is large after Gen 4

Oh, that's something I doubt is an unpopular opinion, but it fits well in (Little) Things that Annoys You in Pokémon.

Baby Pokémon overall is pure poor execution and purely a marketing stunt that played a part to harm Gen 2 as a whole. Too many Pokémon doesn't even benefit getting a new pre-evolution aside of those that were already decently strong like Magmar, Electabuzz and Snorlax, or those that are rare like Roselia and Chimecho.

It's easy to say that Igglybuff is the most unpopular Baby Pokémon alongside Smoochum. Baby Pokémon and new pre-evos in general would work better if they aren't given for Pokémon that would need an evolution a lot more to work and that had yet getting one, or those that are already weak in comparison to those of same type.

Riolu and Toxel are forgivable since they are already part of their own respective generation.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Baby Pokémon overall is pure poor execution and purely a marketing stunt that played a part to harm Gen 2 as a whole.

And imagine we were supposed to get a LOT more than we did.

It's hard to say what "Baby" Pokemon was needed and what wasn't as Baby Pokemon generally have low stats, sometimes lower than most Basic Stage, that makes them all feel have a bit unneeded. If anything a Baby Pokemon should have been an excuse to increase the BST of its evos and it taking the place of the Basic Stage.

Riolu and Toxel are forgivable since they are already part of their own respective generation.

Togepi too?

At least Chimecho needed it due to rarity, but many others don't.

Or they could have just made Chimecho more common. However I think they wanted to make Chingling because they just had a "clever" idea for a prevo for a Pokemon that's a windchime: a shrine bell used for good luck.

Well, technically they kind of work like illusions, supposedly warping space to look bigger... but that raises even more questions.

The lore behind Dynamax & Gigantamax (at least as far as I understand it) is that they're energy projections (think Green Lantern's energy constructs). They're essentially like a Power Ranger zord, with the actual Pokemon somewhere in the "core" of the projection. The Pokemon senses whatever the projection senses, meanwhile the projection's movements exactly mirror the Pokemon's movements. It's not an illusion because the projection is there.

Though a big question is whether Gigantamax Pokemon actually undergo a transformation while inside the projection or the projection itself just changed its appearance and the Pokemon inside is still normal (and if so, does the Pokemon inside have the potential of transforming into the form the Gigantamax has taken (albeit smaller in scale and maybe less glow-y) somehow or is it exclusively an effect of Gigantamaxing)?

Despite Dynamax Formes being thousands of times bigger than the base Pokémon, and looking like they play by completely different rules, they barely hit any harder. Defensively, they hold up twice as well as ordinary Pokémon, but not more than that either. There is a power boost there, but it's laughably disproportionate to the visual changes. When your Pokémon grows to the size of a battleship, we expect it to hit and take hits like a battleship too, but the functional upgrade in terms of gameplay is minimal.

Yup, that's my main issues with the aesthetic of Dynamax & Gigantamax. Pokemon grows REALLY big... only for it to just double HP, all it's moves become super, and it's done in 3 turns. Now, I'm not complaining about the core mechanic, the 3 turn power-up I think works quite well (and I think worth maybe thinking about how to implement Megas back into the mix with it), but the Pokemon becoming Kaiju is just a stupid gimmick it's attached to. Ever since going 3D I swear GF has been mesmerized they can now make models really tall, taller they could ever do with sprites. Now they put it to good effect in XY where it was the environments they made bigger, notably the Gym like Grant's and Ramos's. But then in SM they had Alolan Exeggutor which, haha, very funny guys... but only really once. Then they went full in with SwSh with the Dynamax, G-Weezing's hat/chimney's, Sirfetch'd lance, etc.. Like, enough! GF, how about you put this amount of effort in giving Pokemon more dynamic idle & attacking animations that you do in figuring out ways to make Pokemon tall that only you're impressed by.

Well, what better way is there to implement a new way to stop Pokemon from evolving other than introducing something that doesn't make much sense? They could introduce something that you select on the summary screen, but how would that make sense in game? I think that they made a smart way of keeping them from evolving with the everstone, because you don't want it to evolve. I agree that you should have to do something to get that ease of access item, and then sacrificing an item slot to do that. You want a Level 100 Dreepy? Then you have to sacrifice something for that, and it makes sense.

Well here's an idea: how about making it so Eviolite also prevents the Pokemon holding it from evolving and that Everstone has an additional effect upon preventing a Pokemon from evolving (like making it so the Pokemon can't be afflicted by stat changes & status ailments from another Pokemon)?

We already have an English term for Djinn. It's Genie
So use Genie

Since most English-speaking people can't type/write that way, in English settings it is usually spelled out as either "Jinn", "Djinn", or "Genie". "Genie" is inaccurate, being a French term for a different spirit that has been applied to djinn, but is commonly used enough** that fixing that isn't going to happen. Use the term you want, but if you decide to be pedantic about which term other people use, Genie is the worst option of the 3 available.

Not to mention that there's also different types of Djinn or at least beings related to them. In all honesty, from what I quickly skimmed from the Wikipedia page, Djinn itself is a more vague/umbrella term for supernatural creatures that weren't humans (like the term Yokai in Japan). It's just that in popular culture one VERY specific tale of a wish-granting Djinn (or rather two if you go by the original tale) got super popular and colored perception of "the genie" (and while plenty of modern media have tried going outside Aladdin's Genie of the Lamp into other tales of Djinn, still it's less they're going back to some collected mythology of Djinn and more taking the pieces of works which just so happen to call their beings Djinn and forming a mythology around that).

Djinn, Jinn, Genie, how about we use the same rule we do when pronouncing a Pokemon's name: If you understand the mythical being they were talking about than, unless its offensive, let them spell/say it the way they want to.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Well here's an idea: how about making it so Eviolite also prevents the Pokemon holding it from evolving

That is awesome. It's actually weird that it's not a thing already.

 

[ThatOneSpork]

That is awesome. It's actually weird that it's not a thing already.

Honestly yeah, that is a great way to do that.

Well here's an idea: how about making it so Eviolite also prevents the Pokemon holding it from evolving and that Everstone has an additional effect upon preventing a Pokemon from evolving (like making it so the Pokemon can't be afflicted by stat changes & status ailments from another Pokemon)?

And to give the everstone some use, this would be a good idea, and it could actually be used competitively as well.

 

[Bakugames]

I feel like baby pokemon (gamewise) shouldnt have been "this old pokemon, but worse!", because thats one of the most frustrating things about them. You're stuck with a bad pokemon, comparable to the likes of caterpie in usefulness, while needing to either fulfill a more niche/harder evolution method, or just grinding until level 30, which is too much time stuck in useless baby phase.

Most other pokémon you can get with the same bad first evo will already be evolved by the time you finish the baby evo grind, and what you get from it is just not worth it. Why grind a pichu for the high affection when all you're getting for it is a pikachu? You're better off grinding for something like crobat.

 

[mertyville]

When I was little, I loved to get my hands on the baby Pokemon. And I still liked Munchlax.
They did a good job in introducing the breeding mechanic. But I hoped Gen 3 or later would put these Pokemon in the wild. Glad at least in Gen 4 you can see them in the wild, but they are usually awful.
B2W2 did it honestly the best from my memory, you can get Elekid or Magby around the second Gym. But they take too much time to reach their first evolution.

Still miss we didn't get Baby Meowth. And Baby Vulpix, Tritales?, is pretty cute too.

 

[Ironmage]

They did a good job in introducing the breeding mechanic.

...What? Maybe it's because I started in gen 3 when incenses were already a thing (and had the first baby mons I interacted with be the incense-using wynaut, budew, and chingling), but I have a hard time parsing how mons that can't breed (many of which also require specific items to be bred) can be a good introduction to breeding.

 

[Pikachu315111]

...What? Maybe it's because I started in gen 3 when incenses were already a thing (and had the first baby mons I interacted with be the incense-using wynaut, budew, and chingling), but I have a hard time parsing how mons that can't breed (many of which also require specific items to be bred) can be a good introduction to breeding.

Well, maybe "good job introducing" is a bit strong there. More like "made you aware the breeding mechanic existed".

"Hey, I'm missing entries in my Dex, where are these one-off Pokemon?"
"Oh, they're not on-offs, they're Baby Pokemon you can only get through Breeding."
"I've thought of that but the Pokemon after them only had Eggs of their species"
"That's because you need one of the parents holding an Incense"
"... Why?"
"Well, the Baby Pokemon didn't exist before now and they just can't have that species of Pokemon suddenly hatching into them"
"One, yes they can, if its meant to be a Baby of the species retcon them laying those Baby Pokemon Eggs. Two, so are these Babies like mutants than? Like, before they're fully formed we're forcing them to come into existence as a incomplete version of their mother's species?"
"... Yes..."
"No wonder why they aren't good in battle."
"And also because they're babies."

 

[Bakugames]

I think baby pokémon should have introduced a new mechanic with them. Make it so that they can't actually battle and you have to raise them, giving them goodies to evolve. In trade, maybe they're stronger/have guaranteed better stats/just come with something extra to reward your efforts.

And also make so that babies of bad first forms don't take too long to evolve.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

I think baby pokémon should have introduced a new mechanic with them. Make it so that they can't actually battle and you have to raise them, giving them goodies to evolve. In trade, maybe they're stronger/have guaranteed better stats/just come with something extra to reward your efforts.

And also make so that babies of bad first forms don't take too long to evolve.

There's an interesting example of this in X and Y due to the fact that baby Pokemon are guaranteed 3 perfect IVs in those games. There's a cave where you can catch both Mime Jr and Mr. Mime; catching Mr. Mime obviously means you get a better Pokemon upfront. But catching a Mime Jr means you're very likely to end up with a stronger Pokemon in the long run.

In general though, baby Pokemon already do have an incentive - they bring new moves the Pokemon wouldn't otherwise have learned*. Marill gets different egg moves from Azurill. So imo that's enough incentive to have them and to go the extra mile to obtain them. And as they often evolve by friendship, it can be as quick as you like.

*Assuming the benefits are relevant, anyway; Sudowoodo gets nothing of note from Bonsly, for instance.

 

[Pikachu315111]

There's an interesting example of this in X and Y due to the fact that baby Pokemon are guaranteed 3 perfect IVs in those games.

FUN FACT: That was a mistake. GF wanted to make it so Legendaries were guaranteed 3 perfect IVs and the way they did it is by making the "Undiscovered" Egg Group have that trait... somehow completely forgetting the Baby Pokemon and Nidorina were also in that group so they too could be gotten with 3 Perfect IVs (Nidorina can be caught on Kalos Route 11).

 

[QuentinQuonce]

FUN FACT: That was a mistake. GF wanted to make it so Legendaries were guaranteed 3 perfect IVs and the way they did it is by making the "Undiscovered" Egg Group have that trait... somehow completely forgetting the Baby Pokemon and Nidorina were also in that group so they too could be gotten with 3 Perfect IVs (Nidorina can be caught on Kalos Route 11).

I'm aware, but it was a mistake I don't think should have been fixed. As I said, it made babies more valuable (at least when caught in the wild) and generally made breeding a bit easier in the way every generation generally has done. It certainly made me less likely to trash baby mons at least. It was a solid quality of life change that wasn't too overwhelming.

Though it did make hunting specific Hidden Powers a bit trickier. But I guess everything comes with a price.

 

[Revenge of Depressed Gay]

Pokemon Z would not have saved Kalos at all.

In most cases the third versions expand the dex and give focus to the third legendary, in this case Zygarde. While I do think the plot would have been retrofitted to include Zygarde odds are it would have been a similar case to Alola in which Dexio and Girl Dexio are involved with the Zygarde situation and possibly have doggarde travel around with them. That said odds are Lysandre's goal would still be the same, his admins would still be bland as ever, and Kalos would still be a bland boring region to travel through. I sincerely doubt anything would have been drastically changed in such a way that it would "save" Kalos. Out of anything the inclusion of more pokemon would make it worse since less Kalos mons would shine.

At the end of the day I think Z would have been more like USUM than anything really good.