-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
- Start date
Unpopular Opinion: Pokemon Quest needs a remake with all the pokemon from gens 1-8.
I suppose saying that I couldn't care less about PMD in general counts as an unpopular opinion?
Not caring about Snap definitely does tho.
Not caring about Snap definitely does tho.
I never played the original Snap, I’m looking forward to the new one though!
They revelaed this Snap game has gyro controls, which really works for a photo shooting game. I don't care much about the game, but this is by far the best thing they announced about New Snap for me.
Panpour is... not that good in Black and White. Sure, it murders everything once you get Scald, but that means you're babying it through about 10 levels.
That's kind of the case with a lot of Pokemon in BW1 in general though? BW1 has a very stretched out evolution curve for most of its Pokemon, and taking the stone mons out of the equation, you have a lot of Pokemon who evolve around 10 levels later from when they are caught, and for three-stage mons there's an even longer curve to evolve all the way. Even a mon like Excadrill or Krookodile has a very rough early period because Drilbur and Sandile are pretty dry on moves early on and they're weak. Even the later Pokemon need a lot of babying to reach their full potential. BW's premise was built on the idea that you need to baby every Pokemon you get for a while before you get their full potential: in other words, the "every Pokemon is a reward from hard work" premise. It's not like Panpour is the only one who has this.
Panpour compared to the other monkeys has it better than Pansage or Pansear though. Water Gun is a very decent STAB to have compared to the 35 BP Vine Whip or the 30 BP Incinerate, and later on you can feed Panpour the Rock Smash TM which allowed it to get kills on Patrats and Lillipups in Lenora's Gym (this I usually do with all three of the monkeys in my many playthroughs of BW: I feed them Rock Smash and let them get easier kills on Patrats), and later on Purrloins and Sandiles it can get kills on too in Pinwheel. Later on it learns Bite which can kill Woobats and Munnas too. If you're lacking on power you can spam Work Up as well: this will also work against Bide Patrat where you can boost with Work Up then kill with Rock Smash.
In general Panpour is very manageable with Work Up, Rock Smash, and Water Gun and later Bite until it gets Scald. I'd say it has a better early period than the other two monkeys and speaking as someone who picked Snivy as my starter (and therefore got a Panpour for free), Panpour was competent until then and complemented Snivy pretty well, and yes, it murders everything once you get Scald, which makes the work you put into it well worth the effort. Plus you get a free Water-type that you can Surf with later on.
So after thinking about it for a while I've come to a pretty woke conclusion: Lysandre is the only decent character in all of XY
Don't get it twisted, he's still got some obvious problems. His actual boss fights are painfully underwhelming, the rest of his organization are jokes and his writing is about as subtle as an atom bomb. But in spite of those flaws, he's still the only character who actually felt like they had any sort of pulse or unique edge put into them by the writers and developers. He's a consistent presence all throughout the game, he's genuinely entertaining and memorable in spite of some of the aforementioned writing problems (for instance, his famous "Why are you crying? Pokemon" scene), don't forget actually alright battle animations, especially in the last one, as well as his killer battle theme, one of XY's best which so elegantly captures his genocidal god complex. And in the end... What does he really have for competition? The rivals who all have the charisma and development of a chair leg? The gym leaders who are barely more plot relevant than their Game Boy-era counterparts? AZ and Malva, who they completely and utterly failed to capitalize on despite their backgrounds having heaps of story potential? My point is that, more than anyone else in this dreadful cast, there is something there, which explains why he got it pretty freakin good in both the anime and the Pokemon Adventures manga. It's ironic considering his plan that he feels like one of the sole beacons of life when juxtaposed against the failures of recurring characters XY is mired with.
Don't get it twisted, he's still got some obvious problems. His actual boss fights are painfully underwhelming, the rest of his organization are jokes and his writing is about as subtle as an atom bomb. But in spite of those flaws, he's still the only character who actually felt like they had any sort of pulse or unique edge put into them by the writers and developers. He's a consistent presence all throughout the game, he's genuinely entertaining and memorable in spite of some of the aforementioned writing problems (for instance, his famous "Why are you crying? Pokemon" scene), don't forget actually alright battle animations, especially in the last one, as well as his killer battle theme, one of XY's best which so elegantly captures his genocidal god complex. And in the end... What does he really have for competition? The rivals who all have the charisma and development of a chair leg? The gym leaders who are barely more plot relevant than their Game Boy-era counterparts? AZ and Malva, who they completely and utterly failed to capitalize on despite their backgrounds having heaps of story potential? My point is that, more than anyone else in this dreadful cast, there is something there, which explains why he got it pretty freakin good in both the anime and the Pokemon Adventures manga. It's ironic considering his plan that he feels like one of the sole beacons of life when juxtaposed against the failures of recurring characters XY is mired with.
XY didn't really have that many stand out characters for most of the main game. But I wouldn't say Lysandre was the only decent character.
For the main game, I still defend Shauna had a nice subtle growth of character. She starts out as a bubbly girl, but your first moment alone with her in Parfum Palace reveals some hidden depths and her goal for the journey isn't just to explore Kalos but form memories of fun times with her friends. That doesn't sound like much, which later she herself then questions when momentarily letting go of her perky attitude to talk to the player about why they're travelling and her insecurity she's just goofing around while everyone else has a more simple goal, though then tries to play if off she was joking around. She was also of all the Rivals the biggest help, even a bit more than Calem/Serena, having a device from Clemont which opened the door to the Ultimate Weapon's core and distracted some Admins by running away making them chase her (and since she comes back I can only assume that means she defeated them off screen). She then is one of the few if many only character to call out Lysandre's hypocrisy, causing his final breakdown of destroying the Ultimate Weapon and everything inside by firing upon itself. Finally, just before facing the Pokemon League, you have a final battle with all the "side" Rivals which reveals she has a GOODRA (an underleveled one though only by 1 level, infact I don't know what it wasn't Level 50 as her Starter was Level 51) and thanks the player for helping her create wonderful memories with her friends.
In addition to that she had a few funny moments, she's quick to call out and snark when something is BS (being charged to enter Parfum Palace, at the end of the fireworks display how it was for the owner's Furfrou and how she feels sorry for the Furfrou, & charged after hearing the story at the Scary House). She's also the only Rival to trade you a basic stage of their Starter (hey, Calem/Serena, why not YOU breed your Starter so I can have one too! I'll be kind, I'd breed my Starter to get its Basic Stage, what I did for Shauna even though I know it doesn't really matter what Pokemon she got). Shauna mentions she does want to go out and explore other regions one day, so maybe we'll see her again in the future (though judging how Dexio & Sina have aged she'd also be an adult now).
As for post game, the reward for decent character (heck, I'd go up and above decent) would be Emma in addition with Looker and even Xerosic. The father-daughter dynamic that eventually forms between Looker & Emma was sweet, we learn that Looker has had a rough time since Sinnoh & maybe even Unova, and Xerosic gets a surprising amount of development as he too forms an estranged father-daughter relationship and in the end turns himself in and gives Emma his greatest invention so she could live a better life. And all throughout Emma is sweet & kind, concerned she's being a burden to Looker so goes out to find a job which turns out being for Xerosic, and through her pure innocence turns Xerosic around. Like, sure, it's not winning any rewards for best storytelling or drama, but the XY postgame episode's story was leaps and bounds above what XY main game actually gave us and it's success has led them to including post game episdoes in all future games: Delta Episode in ORAS, Ultra Beast Hunt in SM, Episode RR in USUM, and the Royal Twins in SwSh. All which introduce new characters or bring back old ones in a different light, though for my money I don't think they've yet to really top XY's post game story or Emma's character.
Well I guess I got Kalos on the brain because I have another take about it to share with everyone. Before I do so though, I have to admit that what I'm about to say is to an extent hypocritical, as this is a problem that I have contributed to, and very recently at that. With that said...
I'm starting to get tired about every discussion about XY devolving into moping about Z.
We get it already. XY had very obvious loose ends and teasers that built up to nothing. Things that were not quite finalized, even.
But at the stage we're at, it's really starting to get tiring. It seems like you just can no longer talk about Kalos in any form without someone going "If only Z had happened" and derailing the entire thing into a pity party. And again, I will fully admit I have made this exact mistake in very recent times: in the end, I kinda regret doing so. It feels like in the past few days ever since I found that Japanese game popularity poll that had XY insanely high up I've kinda woken up to the fact that there are people who stand by these games, who love them just the way they are. I myself am finally feeling the spirit to revisit these titles that I haven't had for months now. So for their sake, regardless of your own thoughts, I think we should collectively do exactly that. This region shouldn't be overshadowed by a game that never came out. It shouldn't be a question of what they could've been, what they should've been, what they might've been, but what they are.
I'm starting to get tired about every discussion about XY devolving into moping about Z.
We get it already. XY had very obvious loose ends and teasers that built up to nothing. Things that were not quite finalized, even.
But at the stage we're at, it's really starting to get tiring. It seems like you just can no longer talk about Kalos in any form without someone going "If only Z had happened" and derailing the entire thing into a pity party. And again, I will fully admit I have made this exact mistake in very recent times: in the end, I kinda regret doing so. It feels like in the past few days ever since I found that Japanese game popularity poll that had XY insanely high up I've kinda woken up to the fact that there are people who stand by these games, who love them just the way they are. I myself am finally feeling the spirit to revisit these titles that I haven't had for months now. So for their sake, regardless of your own thoughts, I think we should collectively do exactly that. This region shouldn't be overshadowed by a game that never came out. It shouldn't be a question of what they could've been, what they should've been, what they might've been, but what they are.
And now, time for something completely different....
A ‘pokemon anthology’s’ honestly never going to happen
Because think of how many people wouldn’t buy remakes/let’s go’s because of them
Even with bdsp, there are going to be people who haven’t played GOAT platinum yet, and find it easier to just buy the remakes. This wouldn’t happen with anthology, and when the next remakes come out, people would be like “why would i buy xtra x and yolo y when there’s a collection of all the gen 1-7 games.”
granted it would be worse if they did a 3D all stars and made anthology only available for a limited time, but they haven’t hit that low yet
A ‘pokemon anthology’s’ honestly never going to happen
Because think of how many people wouldn’t buy remakes/let’s go’s because of them
Even with bdsp, there are going to be people who haven’t played GOAT platinum yet, and find it easier to just buy the remakes. This wouldn’t happen with anthology, and when the next remakes come out, people would be like “why would i buy xtra x and yolo y when there’s a collection of all the gen 1-7 games.”
pokemon yellow was available on the 3ds when let's go was launched though, to be fair
It did allow you to get HA Pokémon from Kanto that you couldn't get otherwise, Let's Go doesn't do that
that is a fair point, but yellow eshop was 2 years before lgpe
Even if it wasn’t, the amount of competition one game had would be less than a compilation of all the games up to sm/usum
honestly, with the new "legends" format, I think this is a great opportunity to get some easy (and BIG) money by making a pokémon game collection and abandon remakes alltogether. Gen 5 starts the trend of games whose remakes don't really benefit them all that much, especially now that they're trying by-the-books remakes.
They could even be double scummy and make two versions of it, one for each version, like how the leaks showed it. Stonks
ok yeah that’s also a fair point
I’m not disagreeing with you, just playing devils advocate in case they decided to continue remakes
If only Z existed, we wouldn't need to mope...
Dropping a like just for giving GOAT Platinum the proper honorific.
Also, an anthology would be trouble because jamming all games mean that people will notice just how badly they got ripped off by paired versions and then 3rd version. Also, it hurts re-releases. People usually like remakes in general.
*Checks thread name*
A'ight, good. We clear. Gen 5 would benefit from a remake because those sprites were U G L Y.
People who desecrate sprite art by distorting it deserve to do no soft-reset solo Unown runs.
Here's an example of what I mean:
Those poor sprites got mangled like SM's plot by USUM.
You say that as if people haven't done it for the kicks (or rather the clicks).
* By the way, if you're wondering, the Unown's Hidden Power is Dragon-type.
To be fair if you're bored enough any given pokemon game can be solod by the shittest of pokemon as long as it learns one attacking move and you have enough patience to grind.
I mean fair, gen 5 is fugly as shit, but it is completely playable. Maybe just do a little polishing and it'll be a bit less fugly, then just slap it onto a pokemon collection and feed out of free $$ from the current gen 5 love appreciation. Whatever they do will probably be cheaper than how much gen 5 games are going for nowadays anyway.
If we assume the Pokemon world to be real, the plots of main games are still not real in-universe, and mascot legends (or at least most of them) are either not real/mythological or heavily exaggerated in power. The world presented in main-game plots is gonna collapse into a fireball in 3.2 seconds lol.
Gen 5 can already look a lot better just by running it on an emulator at high resolution rather than the DS's small screen size.
I agree. After reading this, I have realized that I am also very tired of this discussion (which as you say, seems to always pop up when X/Y are being discussed). I find it especially annoying since I am among the players who really like X/Y (and one of the very few here on Smogon, from what it seems). Just like you, I am guilty of occasionally having gone into the topic of "what if Z had existed" when it comes to discussions about X/Y. Also, I don't think that "Z" was as needed as the fanbase in general seems to think. As said at another point quite recently, I thought X/Y were really great games, they didn’t need a follow-up game as much as many other games did. Either way, I agree with you. We really need to look at X/Y more regarding what they actually are, not what a potential follow-up game to them could have been.
I disagree. My unpopular(?) opinion is that I liked the graphics of Gen 5. I think both the sprites and the general graphics of Gen 5 are excellent, way better than the graphics in Gen 4. I think people exaggerate when it comes to the "distortion" of the Gen 5 graphics, I have personally never found it to be that bad. I wonder if it is because people look at standalone sprites on the internet instead of looking at them in the actual games. For me, looking at them in the actual games feels like it gives a much better overall impression of them.
And I think that using an enlarged (and stretched?) image of an area where the camera is zoomed out by default is a really bad example in this case. It will pretty much look bad by default. The same thing would happen if you did it for Gen 4. So I decided to do it for Gen 4, here is the result:
It doesn’t look very good, obviously.
But if we look at Gen 5 and Gen 4 in their default sizes, I think they are both fine.
Gen 5 is excellent graphically, but Gen 4 (or at least Platinum) is great too.
Regarding Gen 5 remakes, I don't think they need to happen either. I don't want them to happen despite (or maybe because?) Gen 5 is my favorite. I feel that Gen 5 is fine just as it is, there's no need for a remake. It might sound strange, but I don’t want to see a remake of my favorite generation. Granted, I am not a huge fan of Pokémon remakes in general, so that’s another reason. I have more to say on this subject and I have a longer post in mind, but I'll save it for another time.
The difference being Gen 4 only zooms out on Stark Mountain (and it does look bad).
Gen 5? The camera is controlled by a drunken Lakitu.
Go to Castelia and find one street where the camera is normal. You ain't finding it. It's a recurring effect they do, every once in a while the game turns into mush because some fool messed with the camera again.
Matter of fact, the game starts with it!
Gen 5 can already look a lot better just by running it on an emulator at high resolution rather than the DS's small screen size.
Look at poor Juniper's face on the middle pic, look how they massacred my girl...